From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #278 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, July 31 2007 Volume 16 : Number 278 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: the sound of thud [Rex ] Re: REAP!!!: William Shatner's purity [Rex ] Re: a thread for eddie (was Re: the sound of thud) [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: reap [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Oldies but oldies [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] reap ["Stewart C. Russell" ] REAP [blatzman@aol.com] Re: a thread for eddie (was Re: the sound of thud) [Christopher Gross ] The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) [Carr] Re: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) [] Happy 89th Birthday Hank Jones! ["Bachman, Michael" ] Leaving Portland. [Capuchin ] Re: reap ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) [] Re: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) [] Re: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:12:21 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: the sound of thud On 7/30/07, craigie* wrote: > > > to be fair, though, that particular song was the result of Kilbey's (at > that > time) new smack habit (now thankfully over). > > and it's quite a pleasant song in and of itself... certainly no worse than > Unguarded Moment... Oh, god, in my book it's way worse than "Unguarded Moment". "UG" is bad, sure, but in a naive way... "TNC" is sci-fi punning at its worse. Playing those two songs back to back might actually save the life of someone considering giving heroin a whirl. The most irritating thing about TNC is that it's on the same album as "City", which should suck for all the same reasons, but for some reason doesn't bug me at all. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:20:36 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: REAP!!!: William Shatner's purity On 7/30/07, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > > heh heh. when the last line of the first digest on a monday morning is a > *Buffy* question, it's pretty well assured that there'll be at least > nineteen more digests before sundown. (and don't get me wrong: much as i > hate the show itself, i love all the discussion of it on this board -- > read > it religiously, as a matter of fact.) Interesting... I feel the same way, actually. Well, I don't hate Buffy, I just have some resistance to it coupled with the awareness that I just don't have damn time in my life to start watching TV shows again in any form. But I love the Buffy feg threads, too... both for the writing and the ongoing real-life drama of the conversions happening one by one, or teetering on a knife's edge. It's voyeurism, just not voyeurism as we know it... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:33:32 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: a thread for eddie (was Re: the sound of thud) Hi Lauren, - --On 30. Juli 2007 18:34:23 -0400 Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > 2. so far, i don't really like the character of buffy, so that's been > a problem. it doesn't have to be. I think all of my friends don't really like Buffy as a character. For me it varies. Sometimes she gets on my nerves, but sometimes I find her really sweet. Part of the sometime-attraction is that I'm not friends with any women who are anything like her. So it's the lure of the unknown, I guess. > she reminds me of why i don't much like to hang out with > women. she's too girly i guess. > maybe that's part of the point. Sure. > i > tend to go for the girls more like willow, That's par for the course as well. I *love* Willow! > but there's no darkness in > willow, Patience, young grasshopper. > so i'm not crazy for her character either. I loved her right from the start. I enjoy darkness as much as the next guy, but I don't think it's a prerequisite. > i like the two > vampires, spike and especially dru - they are much better than the > cartoon vampires from season 1. Yup, and they are fan favorites. > i guess the point of this is that i find myself getting interested in > the show because it suddenly got all "power of myth", but i'm > concerned about not caring for buffy or being much drawn to the other > characters so far. Give it time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:51:00 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #277 > p.p.s. so when one might fall for buffy would be in the space between > "surprise" and "innocence"? so it would seem. "Between Surprise And Innocence" - have we started on fake album names now that fake band names are passe? James (whose earliest band used to cover "Great Dominions", and occasionally "Head Hang Low", way back when) - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 06:56:02 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: reap michelangelo antonioni, film director, 94. http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/241592 xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:32:15 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: reap - --On 31. Juli 2007 06:56:02 -0400 Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > michelangelo antonioni, film director, 94. > > http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/241592 Wow, Bergman one day, Antonioni the next! Wait, actually the same day! Isn't that fitting? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:33:55 +0100 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Oldies but oldies Big interview with Nick Lowe in this month's Record Collector. Those of you with sharp eyes may have spotted the old boy looking like a successful used car salesman in the recent Tarantula documentary, doubtless because he has signed to Yep Roc for his new album, which has been getting respectful reviews in the American press. I saw the band on TV last week: the ever-reliable Geraint Watkins on keyboards, Steve Donnelly on guitar, Rob Treherne on drums and a stand-up bass-player. Very static, but a few interesting songs - my mate Stephen reckons he has come too much under the influence of his late paw-in-law, Johnny Cash. But Nick has obviously been working hard on his vocals since I saw him last supporting Elvis Costello at the Colston Hall in - what? - 1990? A few years after the classic Rockpile band folded, anyway. Elvis and Nick swapped headliners quite frequently in those days: I went to see Nick and his Cowboy Outfit at Chippenham Golddiggers in the mid 80s and Costello and the Attractions turned up unannounced to try out material for 'Imperial Bedroom'. The Blasters were the official support group that night - good value for a local gig [but not as good as the 'Stiffs Live Stiffs' tour which also featured Ian Dury, Wreckless Eric, Larry Wallis and Dave Edmunds]. - - Mike Godwin PS for celeb fans: Nicholas Cage has bought a castle at the bottom of our hill... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:45:08 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: reap Phil "one man and his dog" Drabble, 93. (yes, the BBC had a popular show about ... competitive sheep herding. I know it's mandatory in James's country to have at least 25% of televised content to be ovine, but this was on prime time.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:52:36 -0400 From: blatzman@aol.com Subject: REAP Julian Cope's songwriting ability. Ok...ok... I keed, I keed! ;-) Blatzy PS- For my tastes- Julian was at his best on Fried, WSYM, and the Teardrops album Wilder(ahhhhhh... Wilder) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:03:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: a thread for eddie (was Re: the sound of thud) Feeling headachey and cranky today, and Jeff and Sebastian have already said a lot of what I'd say, so I might be a little less long-winded than usual. On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > 1. i was telling my girlfriend that i was watching buffy and she > mentioned that the guy who plays angel is the son of dave roberts. 'Tis true. I grew up in the Philly viewing area, and Channel 6 was my parents' preferred news and weather station, so I too was a little weirded out to learn the above. It's not a problem for me though. (At least not when watching Buffy and Angel. Sometimes it's distracting when I'm visiting my parents and they turn on Action News.) > 2. so far, i don't really like the character of buffy, so that's been > a problem. she reminds me of why i don't much like to hang out with > women. she's too girly i guess. maybe that's part of the point. It definitely is part of the point. The incongruity of a cheerleader (as a shorthand term for a frivolous, ditzy but goodlooking teenage girl) ending up with superpowers and defending the world against the forces of darkness is one of the central conceits of the show. Maybe you could make a good show about an intelligent, unconventional girl with a strong social conscience becoming a superhero, but it wouldn't be this show. Buffy is someone whose path in life was drastically changed by becoming the Slayer. Anyway, girly or not, point of the show or not, Buffy appeals to me. But that's as much because she's interesting as because she's likeable. And the same goes for Willow, Xander, Giles, Angel and the rest. Their flaws make them more interesting, and make for more interesting relationships between them; and these flaws include cheerleadery attitudes just as much as, say, going evil. Shows whose characters are all likeable all the time can be fun, but they lack depth. I love watching characters like Col. Tigh, Shane Vendrell and Paulie Walnuts, even though I would never be friends with anyone like them in real life. (Well, maybe Col. Tigh.) Also, note that if you watch the entire series, you'll have followed Buffy, Willow and Xander from age 16 to 22. In addition to everything else they go through, they *do* grow more mature. Of course there's still no guarantee you'll come to like them more; but there's one way to find out! > willow, so i'm not crazy for her character either. xander (sp?) i That is the correct spelling. (Not to be confused with Zander Schloss, bassist for the Circle Jerks.) > just got interesting, but he's...dave robert's son. i like the two > vampires, spike and especially dru - they are much better than the > cartoon vampires from season 1. The season 1 vampires were based on traditional mid-20th-century horror movie vampires. This was mostly played out by the end of the season. Spike and Dru, as well as post-Innocence Angel, were deliberately written as a reaction to those old traditional vamps. > 3. the thing that has kept me watching is the very interesting > question of how a show such as the one i'm watching will turn into the > show that you fegs talk about. i'm really curious about how this gets > pulled off. not that it's a definite, but i respect feg tastes and so > even if i don't end up loving it, i think i'll at least understand why > you folks do. but it's entirely possible that i'll end up loving it. > we'll see. If I had to guess, I'd guess that the later seasons will appeal to you more than the first two. (Early Buffy is the high school years, seasons 1-3; later Buffy is seasons 5-7; season 4 is a transitional period.) However, I do NOT recommend skipping ahead. To fully appreciate the later seasons, you need to know what they're building on. Anyway, I'm glad you've found at least a moderate liking for the show. Stick with it. If you get the end and decide you didn't care for it, well, we'll owe you one. - --Chris ps: Hmm, guess I was still pretty long-winded after all. ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:06:18 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: reap michel serrault, actor, 79 http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=2007-07-30T161016Z_01_L30733089_RTRIDST_0_ENTERTAINMENT-FRANCE-COL.XML&archived=False or http://tinyurl.com/2fz3u2 what is going this week? xo p.s. i just recently was looking to see if the movie "garde a vue" is available on dvd. it doesn't seem to be, at least in u.s. - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:13:27 -0700 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) On Jul 31, 2007, at 10:03 AM, Christopher Gross wrote: > Anyway, girly or not, point of the show or not, Buffy appeals to > me. But > that's as much because she's interesting as because she's > likeable. And > the same goes for Willow, Xander, Giles, Angel and the rest. Their > flaws > make them more interesting, and make for more interesting > relationships > between them; and these flaws include cheerleadery attitudes just > as much > as, say, going evil. Shows whose characters are all likeable all > the time > can be fun, but they lack depth. I love watching characters like Col. > Tigh, Shane Vendrell and Paulie Walnuts, even though I would never be > friends with anyone like them in real life. (Well, maybe Col. Tigh.) > Isn't that the whole Whedon thing? Strong but unusual female roles with ALL the characters, male or female, having flaws? I've not watched Buffy yet, but I have read quite a bit about his character developments for Firefly. A strong female who is career military, a strong female who is a whore and a strong female who is a mechanic and very girly girl. Not to mention all the other characters who have many flaws, the most flawed of which is the captain of the ship! I might not want to be friends with all of them, but what happens between them, because of their flaws and strong points, is a terrificly interesting thing to watch. Be Seeing You, - - c ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:37:28 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) On 7/31/07, Carrie Galbraith wrote: > > On Jul 31, 2007, at 10:03 AM, Christopher Gross wrote: > > Anyway, girly or not, point of the show or not, Buffy appeals to > > me. But > > that's as much because she's interesting as because she's > > likeable. And > > the same goes for Willow, Xander, Giles, Angel and the rest. Their > > flaws > > make them more interesting, and make for more interesting > > relationships > > between them; and these flaws include cheerleadery attitudes just > > as much > > as, say, going evil. Shows whose characters are all likeable all > > the time > > can be fun, but they lack depth. I love watching characters like Col. > > Tigh, Shane Vendrell and Paulie Walnuts, even though I would never be > > friends with anyone like them in real life. (Well, maybe Col. Tigh.) > > > > Isn't that the whole Whedon thing? Strong but unusual female roles > with ALL the characters, male or female, having flaws? I've not > watched Buffy yet, but I have read quite a bit about his character > developments for Firefly. A strong female who is career military, a > strong female who is a whore and a strong female who is a mechanic > and very girly girl. Minor correction: it really isn't accurate to refer to Inara as a "whore": in the Firefly 'verse, "companions" are highly regarded and highly trained (not just sexually), and have rather high social status. "Whore" connotes almost the exact opposite of that (not that that stops Captain Mal from half-thinking of her that way...partly because his own social status is so much lower than hers). But yes: Whedon often writes characters who are sort of both-and - they are a certain kind of stereotype (Kaylee, the mechanic - and a rather skilled one she is - also comes across at first as a typical ditz, with her name in goofy cutout paper letters on her door, etc.) but they're also more than, even contradictory to, those stereotypes. Sounds obvious - but it's a way of keeping the viewer slightly off-balance, in that you don't know when a character's going to reveal another facet of him/herself, one you wouldn't necessarily have predicted. Sometimes taht's played for drama, other times for laughs...but there you go. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:38:20 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: Happy 89th Birthday Hank Jones! Jazz pianist Hank Jones turns 89 years young today. Hank is the last surviving member of three jazz icon Jones brothers from Pontiac, MI ( Thad Jones , trumpet, and Elvin Jones , drums). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:32:54 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: reap On 7/31/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > michel serrault, actor, 79 > > > > what is going this week? I think you meant "what is going on this week?" - and I think I know the answer. Observe that in the last week or so, many renowned folks connected with the film industry have died. Observe that about a week ago, someone forwarded a link to the article about The Cat Who Was Death. What is that cat's name? Oscar. The connection is, I trust, clear now. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Leaving Portland. As you all know (if you've been paying close attention to my life as you should), I will be moving out of Portland this month for the first time in my long, long life and taking up residence in the once-great city of New Orleans, The Best-Run City in the Caribbean. This is a two-fold shout-out: First, I am having a hell of a party to mark my departure. Forgive the late notice, out-of-towners. WHERE: Organics To You -- SE Madison at 6th, Portland, Oregon WHEN: 9pm Friday, 3 August, 2007 WHY: A Portland Institution's Last Hurrah. My friend (and American Idol Underground Grand Prize Winner) Morgan Grace will be playing as well as the venerable TBA. To hear Morgan's fantastic song The Rules Of Dating, visit her myspace page at: Her band page at has album downloads for those of you that would like to support local music no matter where it is. I don't expect [m]any of you to make it, but please try if you can. Also, if you want to play, there could be a spot for you! Second, I am taking this incredibly dodgy looking VW Vanagon Camper nearly 3,000 miles from Portland to New Orleans. If you live along that route, you should let me know so you can buy me a meal or let me sleep at your house! The route I am taking is a great dog-leg through the American Southwest. Essentially, the trip will be I-5 to I-10 with detours to San Jose, California and Austin, Texas. I will be travelling with a companion (the owner of the van), so be warned. Ladies relax! We are not romantically linked. I am especially interested in finding a secure place for the van (full of my worldly possessions!) during our night-stops. These would ideally be in or near: San Jose 29 Palms El Paso Austin However, we might be adding some days either in order to have fun or to have the van repaired. So if you live along the route at all, you should let me know! I'm leaving on Monday, 6 August. So those stops would be on or near Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday nights. Alright. I'll catch up on the Buffy thread after I've packed, rid myself of my last few cumbersome items of personalty, arranged for lighting at the party, configured a virtual server to house my internet self, visited the two-dozen people asking if I want to "hang out" before I go, and had lunch. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:45:05 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: reap 2fs says: > On 7/31/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > michel serrault, actor, 79 > > > > > > > > what is going this week? > > > I think you meant "what is going on this week?" - and I think I know the > answer. oh i have to say that's sweet - jeff 2fs is speaking my language. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:40:23 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) 2fs says: > On 7/31/07, Carrie Galbraith wrote: > > Isn't that the whole Whedon thing? Strong but unusual female roles > > with ALL the characters, male or female, having flaws? I've not > > watched Buffy yet, but I have read quite a bit about his character > > developments for Firefly. > But yes: Whedon often writes characters who are sort of both-and - they are > a certain kind of stereotype (Kaylee, the mechanic - and a rather skilled > one she is - also comes across at first as a typical ditz, with her name in > goofy cutout paper letters on her door, etc.) but they're also more than, > even contradictory to, those stereotypes. Sounds obvious - but it's a way of > keeping the viewer slightly off-balance, in that you don't know when a > character's going to reveal another facet of him/herself, one you wouldn't > necessarily have predicted. Sometimes taht's played for drama, other times > for laughs...but there you go. these are some interesting points, especially jeff 2fs point about the contradictions within the stereotype. i generally have no problem being interested in characters that i don't personally care for. i would use "six feet under" as a good example of the kind of characters that attract me (claire with her disdain for the world, coupled with her artistic aspirations is the female character that i'm drawn most to.) in buffy, there's two things going on (for me) beyond the general "flawed character": (1) buffy herself is interested in shopping, boys, and manicures and all things shallow, teenaged girl (thus tying into a lot of my own personal female issues), and (2) the characters (so far) are rather cookie-cutter in a strange sort of way; even their flaws seem a bit cookie-cutter. they definitely seem to come out of a comic-book world. i think i find a bit off putting, which might be exactly what jeff 2fs just said (i don't wish to be impolite and speak for you, but i think that's part of what you're getting at?) oh, btw, i think my "thread for eddie" gave an impression that i like the show less that i do. really i was just bringing up some conversational topics. i would say the first season was mildly entertaining, and the second season became likeable, and Between Surprise and Innocence, things got very, very interesting. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:23:24 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) On 7/31/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > > n buffy, there's two things going on (for me) beyond the > general "flawed character": (1) buffy herself is interested in > shopping, boys, and manicures and all things shallow, teenaged girl > (thus tying into a lot of my own personal female issues), But as you see, these are teenage-girl things - she is, after all, a teenager. The shopping and manicure etc. things barely come up later (except in sort of ironic humor situations), and as for "boys" - well, that becomes its own main story thread. But then, "boys" is less specifically teenage isn't it. and (2) the > characters (so far) are rather cookie-cutter in a strange sort of way; > even their flaws seem a bit cookie-cutter. they definitely seem to > come out of a comic-book world. i think i find a bit off putting, > which might be exactly what jeff 2fs just said (i don't wish to be > impolite and speak for you, but i think that's part of what you're > getting at?) The one thing that would kill anyone's Buffy fandom (or that of any Joss shows) is if they just can't stand genre tropes. Whedon is nothing if not a big ol' fan - and he loves loves loves comics, horror movies, etc., even as he's well aware of the ways their stereotypical situations and characters limit them (which he then plays with) - but if someone's reaction to a comic-book situation (or horror-movie situation, ec.) is primarily "dumb stupid cliche," they may not be able to get beyond that. I think it's reasonable to begin with relatively archetypal characters, to sort of hit the ground running, and gradually broaden and expand them. I will say that by the end of the series, a couple of characters (Willow in particular) have changed so much, and in ways that were both surprising yet fitting, that they felt nearly like actual humans. (That's almost true of some characters who aren't even human.) I seem to recall that while S2 was definitely better than S1, things really got underway (in a more "adult" mode) in S3. Again, given that the characters *are* teens, that they think of the world as teens do is understandable. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:33:32 -0500 From: "Sumiko Keay" Subject: Re: The Buffy Verse (was Re: a thread for eddie, Re: the sound of thud) Are you watching season 2 still? Season 3 is possibly the best one. Sumi On 7/31/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > 2fs says: > > On 7/31/07, Carrie Galbraith wrote: > > > Isn't that the whole Whedon thing? Strong but unusual female roles > > > with ALL the characters, male or female, having flaws? I've not > > > watched Buffy yet, but I have read quite a bit about his character > > > developments for Firefly. > > > > > But yes: Whedon often writes characters who are sort of both-and - they are > > a certain kind of stereotype (Kaylee, the mechanic - and a rather skilled > > one she is - also comes across at first as a typical ditz, with her name in > > goofy cutout paper letters on her door, etc.) but they're also more than, > > even contradictory to, those stereotypes. Sounds obvious - but it's a way of > > keeping the viewer slightly off-balance, in that you don't know when a > > character's going to reveal another facet of him/herself, one you wouldn't > > necessarily have predicted. Sometimes taht's played for drama, other times > > for laughs...but there you go. > > these are some interesting points, especially jeff 2fs point about the > contradictions within the stereotype. i generally have no problem > being interested in characters that i don't personally care for. i > would use "six feet under" as a good example of the kind of characters > that attract me (claire with her disdain for the world, coupled with > her artistic aspirations is the female character that i'm drawn most > to.) in buffy, there's two things going on (for me) beyond the > general "flawed character": (1) buffy herself is interested in > shopping, boys, and manicures and all things shallow, teenaged girl > (thus tying into a lot of my own personal female issues), and (2) the > characters (so far) are rather cookie-cutter in a strange sort of way; > even their flaws seem a bit cookie-cutter. they definitely seem to > come out of a comic-book world. i think i find a bit off putting, > which might be exactly what jeff 2fs just said (i don't wish to be > impolite and speak for you, but i think that's part of what you're > getting at?) > > oh, btw, i think my "thread for eddie" gave an impression that i like > the show less that i do. really i was just bringing up some > conversational topics. i would say the first season was mildly > entertaining, and the second season became likeable, and Between > Surprise and Innocence, things got very, very interesting. > > xo > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." > > - The Buddha ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #278 ********************************