From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #210 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, May 20 2007 Volume 16 : Number 210 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Fwd: REAP!!!!! [Rex ] The fine art of "mocap" [Barbara Soutar ] Re: REAP!!!!! ["Jason Brown" ] Re: more on this vital subject ["Michael Sweeney" ] Re: REAP!!!!! ["Michael Sweeney" ] Re: more on this vital subject ["Michael Sweeney" ] Re: REAP!!!!! ["Michael Sweeney" ] NYT on German beer [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: more on this vital subject ["Stacked Crooked" ] RE: REAP!!!!! ["Marc Alberts" ] Re: band names ["Michael Sweeney" ] help wanted with glastonbury site and other 80s UK festivities [great whi] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #201 ["vivien lyon" ] Re: a crisis of conscience [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Rock & Roll [Steve Schiavo ] Re: 101 uses for a dead cat topic [Tom Clark ] Re: REAP!!!!! [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: more on this vital subject [Rex ] Re: REAP!!!!! [Rex ] Re: Rock & Roll ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: 101 uses for a dead cat topic ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 22:32:53 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Fwd: REAP!!!!! On 5/18/07, FSThomas wrote: > > /resistance to saying anything ... failing ... > > > By 'gaybashing' I guess you mean the physical bashing of homosexuals? Yes. God hates fags, or hadn't you heard? Regarding 'anti-abortion violence,' I take it as the doing of harm to > those who perform or seek abortions? Erm. Yeah. Killing them, or threatening to do so to the point where they fear for their lives and stop practicing. Are you actually claiming that the religious right in the US has > encourage and/or endorsed more violence against homosexuals (and/or > lesbians) and those who perform or seek abortions versus than other > global theocracies (or would-be theocracies) (read:Islamic states) have? No, that's just for starters, of course, and I wasn't saying anything about Islamic states vis a vis gays or abortion-- just general life-ruining in the name of God. What I was saying was that there are a lot more people in the US than in the whole of the middle east... therefore, while those outright Islamic theocracies may wield more power within their spheres, and screw up more lives per capita, the *total number of humans negatively impacted by them* may be less than those harmed by fundamentalism here. There is a lot more to it than just violence, though-- the kids in those Jesus camps or the gays who've been degayified or whatever are no less psychologically damaged than, say, the women who are marginalized in those Muslim societies. If you want to reject that outright, fine. But again, I'm talking whole numbers, not some kind or per capita hatecrime index, and I did qualify it as conjecture. Have you hung around with moon-eyed born-agains? They're pretty loony-tunes. And as much as they detest the suicide bombers' religion, they're starting to warm up to, of all things, their methods. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 01:35:11 -0400 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: The fine art of "mocap" I am now addicted to www.cartoonbrew.com. Always lots of good video clips, this one is hilarious. http://www.cartoonbrew.com/cartoon-culture/calarts-teaches-the-fine-art-of-mocap Barbara Soutar Victoria, BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 00:12:29 -0700 From: "Jason Brown" Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! Rex saiod: > No, that's just for starters, of course, and I wasn't saying anything about > Islamic states vis a vis gays or abortion-- just general life-ruining in the > name of God. What I was saying was that there are a lot more people in the > US than in the whole of the middle east... Well for starters this assumption is just wrong. There are about 300 million people in the US and depending on how you define the Middle East there are anywhere from 350 million to 600 million people there and those numbers don't even include some really nasty places like the Sudan and Nigeria where people are regularly killed in the name of religion. Not to mention honor killings and other horrors that all to common place in these countries. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:26:53 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: more on this vital subject Christopher Gross said: >I was also amused by another event, "Back to Freshman Year," where >seniors can visit their old dorms. I wonder if they brought their parents >with them? "Look, mom, that's the spot where I almost got laid for the >first time! There's the window I threw my bong out of as the RA pounded on >my door! And there's the very spot where I gave up on studying for my Chem >102 final and decided to just take the F." Comedy gold! And I can definitely identify. Yeah, but, frankly, who _wouldnt_ want to take a tour of even the locations of failures and defeats in their life? Well, I would, anyway: "Look: There's the building that she used to live in, where I came up and stayed the weekend during that one ill-fated visit when everything seemed to careen out of control...and which I once  years later  drunkenly stumbled against and kissed, feeling the grit of 70 or 80 years of city-battered brick-and-stone against my lips, teeth, and tongue..." Uh...or I could just keep those memories (and other, similar ones...I've got dozens!) to myself, couldn't I? >>...I mean, christ, I'm 44 and can occasionally get nostalgic for the >>stray non-overplayed Boston or Foreigner track from back then... >The scary thing to me is that back when Nirvana broke, today's >students were as old as I was when Boston hit the big time. ...Doing the math...and, uh, for me, it's "today's students were as old as I was when Mungo Jerry had a #1 hit," so...THAT's infinitely more depressing (well...OK  NOT infinitely more depressing than simply the fact of Journey's existence...or, much less, than their actual oeuvre...shudder) Michael "In a reference that only one other person (who doesn't even read this list) would get (and who wasn't even the _her_ in question), 'I should have punched her on Wrightwood when I had the chance'..." Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? Youll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:31:54 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: RE: 101 uses for a dead cat topic ...I'm apparently all about dead topics ...Or, in this case, completely dead (emphasis on the "dead") events from the past that I didn't comment on at the time (since I was "just" a lurker then) (no offense to any out there now...we all gotta start someway and sometime), mostly cuz, hey, I didn't want to break my cherry on a purely "hey, look how clever I am!" post (of course, since then, I've arguably mostly _only_ made those kindsa posts, soeh, what can you do?)... ...But, last summer, three real-life people referenced in Robyn's songs died within about five weeks of each other: One very notable, one fairly obscure, and one somewhat in-between (although probably known to nearly everyone out here). ...So (apparently slightly like Lauren, I ain't above starting a prize-less semi-contest), based upon that description, who are the 3 then-dead personages that Robyn had previously sang about and that I am referencing? (and, remember, I'm on the digest (as opposed to being "on the bear, man"), so I may be slightly lagged behind on pronouncing the victor unless I am specifically CCed on the responses) (and feel free to do so) ...Of course, if my then-lurking (as opposed to my now-obsessively devouring the digests and chiming in all over the place) somehow precluded my actually reading someone else previously noting this reap/Robyn-lyric convergence, please feel free to mock me more than you already likely do Michael "Once passed the test and audition for 'Jeopardy!', but was never called to appear on the show in the season that followed (damnit!)" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:35:16 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! Kevin reap-continued: >>From: vivien lyon >>Sent: May 18, 2007 9:29 AM >>To: michaeljbachman@comcast.net, meerkat manor >>Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! >> >>Dobson was even worse, in my estimation, but maybe that's just ecause I >>had to >>listen to him every Sunday morning when I was little. > >The only difference between our ayatollahs and the ones Over There is the >homey >corn-pone accents they spew their hate in, ya ask me. ...I;m never one to knee-jerkin'ly defend "our way" over theirs )whomever the "they" may be), but I would slightly respond that (at least; so far  knock wood and all that) the mitigation to this point has been that abject compliance with and to the pronouncements of OUR wrong-headed ayatollahs has not been made compulsory (well, at least not in major swaths of the states best known for their bluish hue) Michael "Thank god (oooh - irony!) for the tradition (if not, sadly, any sort of actual legal and binding codification (IIRC (and I think I do))) of the separation of church and state..." Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:39:10 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! Tom Clark wrote: >On May 18, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > >>Anyone read "God Is Not Great" yet? >No, but I did just listen to Julia Sweeney's monologue "Letting Go of >God", which she apparently just filmed. I really enjoyed the way she >presents the progression of events that led her to just stop believing >altogether. Reminded me of the freedom I felt after finally shedding all >that baggage. Semi-tipping pointanother "Sweeney" mentioned (after the BBC interviewer John) who is neither a) me, nor b) related to me; yet...who I agree with about the subject at hand... What are the odds? Fer instance, would they be greater or less than the fact that two unrelated people on the same list who would end up arguing so vociferously against each other had the same last name? Inquiring minds would like to...eh, never mind  I suppose (once the semi-lame joke is made) that we don't actually care (not that THAT's stopped me before). Michael "Realizing no synchronicity with the career events of either Terry (SNL's _other_, more obscure) or Mike (the _other_ Mike, who plays for the K.C. Royals) Sweeney..." Sweeney PS  Now THAT was a somewhat confusing quote/parenthetical to attempt to construct...(esp. at 4:24 am with some bourbon under my belt) _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? Youll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:44:13 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: more on this vital subject Dolph sez: >At 10:39 AM 5/18/2007, Christopher Gross wrote: > >>But the scariest part of all is that now I kinda feel like listening to >>Journey.... > >Ah, you're all a bunch of haters. Journey rules. "Don't Stop Believin'" >is fucking OPERA. I listen to Journey on purpose. I play the Journey >arcade game on my computer. > >Join the Dark Side. You know you like it. ...Shudder. "Dark Side?" You can cut my hand off if you must, Mr. Vader/Dooku, but...I will not, nay, CANNOT stomach even one more accidental, can't-reach-for-the-radio-dial-fast-enough hearing of "Any Way You Want It," "Open Arms," or (double shudder) "Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin'"... Michael "...and if I see that freakin' scarab anywhere near me, I'm gonna stomp on it!" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:48:33 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! Kevin wrote: >>Well...and that over there they have a lot more power... > >Like the difference between the de jure control they have over there, as >opposed >to the de facto control they have over here? (How many of those Republican >candidates raised their hands to say they didn't believe in evolution the >other >night?) ...I think it was 3  Brownback, Hunter or Huckabee, and Tancredo. (checking...yep...but Hunter is off the hook) Which is actually a good thing  makes it that much easier to completely write them off immediately (yeah, like a) I hadn't already, and b) it matters at all in the long run since those 3 aren't even semi-hoping to get picked as the V-P nominee)... Michael Sweeney ...key-rist  that's 6 responses posted tonight...and I don't even have time to read digest #209 until later in the weekend... _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_MAY07 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:57:51 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! Benjamin Lukoff wrote: >On Fri, 18 May 2007, kevin wrote: >> >>>Well...and that over there they have a lot more power... >> >>Like the difference between the de jure control they have over there, as >>opposed to the de facto control they have over here? (How many of those >>Republican candidates raised their hands to say they didn't believe in >>evolution the other night?) > >Remind me the last time this happened in the US? >http://atheism.about.com/b/a/187568.htm ...although to say "Matthew Shepard" isn't near an exact correlation (since some in power MAY WELL advocate such a summary execution for those who so deviate from their own beliefs, but none to date may have actually voiced such disgusting thoughts publicly), but...ah...I guess I'll still say "Matthew Shepard." Michael Sweeney ...And if that's a wee-bit too off-comparison for some (even with my admitted caveat), well, there certainly were plenty of not-all-that-long-ago lynchings that, while perhaps not OFFICIALLY sanctioned by any local governmental bodies, were absolutely presided over by men who received votes to put them in leadership positions and/or those who wore colors asserting their authority over local citizenry... _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? Youll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 14:29:55 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: NYT on German beer Today's NYT travel section has an article on German beer that focuses on Cologne: The beer he tasted isn't my favorite brand, but I know all the places he went to and I used to live in one of the neighborhoods he visits. I feel strangely flattered. It's true what Mira says: "I'm not necessarily proud of being German, but I am proud of being from Cologne." I have to admit that the Berlin beer he describes is the only one of the other specialties that I'm familiar with. I never had Gose or Rauchbier. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 09:28:40 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Re: more on this vital subject been reading *Wind In The Willows* with the kidses, have we? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 09:45:37 -0700 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: REAP!!!!! Jason Brown wrote: > Rex saiod: > > No, that's just for starters, of course, and I wasn't saying anything > about > > Islamic states vis a vis gays or abortion-- just general life-ruining > in the > > name of God. What I was saying was that there are a lot more people > in the > > US than in the whole of the middle east... > > Well for starters this assumption is just wrong. There are about 300 > million people in the US and depending on how you define the Middle > East there are anywhere from 350 million to 600 million people there > and those numbers don't even include some really nasty places like the > Sudan and Nigeria where people are regularly killed in the name of > religion. Not to mention honor killings and other horrors that all to > common place in these countries. If we're defining the Middle East as Rex stated above to include the Islamic states, then we have to include the 280 million Indonesians and 145 million Bengalis in there as well. That should pop the numbers up to right around a billion. Beyond this comment, I'm staying out of this ludicrous argument. The idea that discrimination by force of government edict has the same effect as isolated preaching just blows my mind. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 18:19:35 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: band names I blathered on and on and on until I said: >...it's name? Crap! I NEVER make that stupidly common apostrophical mistake! ...But...I guess...sometimes I do...darnit. Michael "Maybe I should proofread my posts BEFORE I send them, rather than the next day when they're in the digest...hmm?" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 14:51:58 +0930 From: great white shark Subject: help wanted with glastonbury site and other 80s UK festivities Fegs, Some of you may have twigged to the fact that I have a gi-normous website that details the history of UK rock festivals;. lately I have moved into documenting the 80s , I am looking for eyewitness accounts of the glastonbury festivals up to and including 1990 , if any fegs attended and have memories - can you PLEASE contact me . Also if you attended any other uk Festivals Monsters of Rock , reading, elephant fayre , treworgey, milton keynes, crystal palace or nostell priory etc, etc., blah blah.contact me, blah,etc, blah, der Kommander www.ukrockfestivals.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 12:43:45 -0700 From: "vivien lyon" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #201 re: BSG I don't regret those words, but the season finale broke my heart. I, like many others, have no idea what to make of that final episode. On 5/18/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > although i have to credit vivien for kind words about the series > offlist which helped me decide to start watching. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 07:45:06 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: a crisis of conscience >I'm warning you now: the day is not far off when Pamela Anderson's >artificially enhanced "oppressive udders" attain consciousness - and then we >will all be in a world of trouble, as enormous breasts patrol the world, >wreaking havoc and enforcing their will upon a helpless population. aah! Finally, an explanation for what "Rover" was in "The Prisoner"! James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 14:58:23 -0500 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Rock & Roll - - Steve _______________ Interconnectedness among living beings can be accounted for by nonlocal quantum entanglement. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:19:09 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: 101 uses for a dead cat topic On May 18, 2007, at 9:52 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > Hm, the German word for catnip is Katzenminze and that is the > literal translation of catmint. The Wikipedia article for catmint > redirects to catnip and it mentions these species: > > Nepeta cataria (Catnip, True Catnip, Catmint or Field Balm) > > Nepeta grandiflora (Giant Catmint or Caucasus Catmint) > > So catmint *is* catnip! Not so fast... According to my trusty Western Garden Book, "Catnip" is Nepeta cataria: "From the Mediterranean and western Asia. 2-3' high and wide, with downy, heart-shaped, tooth-shaped gray-green leaves. Spikes of small (1/4 - 1/2 in.) whitish or pinkish flowers in late spring, early summer." "Catmint" is Nepeta faassenii: "Sterile hybrid of Nepeta racemosa [native to Turkey, Iran] and a European species; often sold as Nepeta mussinii. Soft, silvery gray- green, spreading mound grows to 1 ft. high, 1.5-2 ft. wide. Scallop- edged, heart-shaped gray-green leaves to 1 in. long." - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! On Sat, 19 May 2007, Michael Sweeney wrote: > Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > >On Fri, 18 May 2007, kevin wrote: > >> > >>>Well...and that over there they have a lot more power... > >> > >>Like the difference between the de jure control they have over there, as > >>opposed to the de facto control they have over here? (How many of those > >>Republican candidates raised their hands to say they didn't believe in > >>evolution the other night?) > > > >Remind me the last time this happened in the US? > >http://atheism.about.com/b/a/187568.htm > > ...although to say "Matthew Shepard" isn't near an exact correlation (since > some in power MAY WELL advocate such a summary execution for those who so > deviate from their own beliefs, but none to date may have actually voiced > such disgusting thoughts publicly), but...ah...I guess I'll still say > "Matthew Shepard." When the state of Wyoming starts doing this themselves, then the comparison will be apt... > Michael Sweeney > ...And if that's a wee-bit too off-comparison for some (even with my > admitted caveat), well, there certainly were plenty of not-all-that-long-ago > lynchings that, while perhaps not OFFICIALLY sanctioned by any local > governmental bodies, were absolutely presided over by men who received votes > to put them in leadership positions and/or those who wore colors asserting > their authority over local citizenry... Now this is absolutely true. But fortunately all that (I think) is over. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 16:11:57 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: more on this vital subject On 5/19/07, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > > > been reading *Wind In The Willows* with the kidses, have we? Yup. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 16:25:04 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! On 5/19/07, Marc Alberts wrote: > > > Beyond this comment, I'm staying out of this ludicrous argument. But you fail it-- calling it ludicrous is not "staying out of it". The idea > that discrimination by force of government edict has the same effect as > isolated preaching just blows my mind. Well, I wasn't saying it had the same effect, just that it was conceivable that comparable *numbers* of people were affected. I didn't think anyone would even bother to crunch the figures because I wan't expecting anyone to defend fundamentalism-- I forget that sometimes details are exactly what count in these kinds of arguments. Call it fuzzy math. However, when the death of someone like Falwell is front page news, you could hardly call it "isolated preaching". It was obviously broadband bigotry that reached a lot of people (a self-described "majority, even). And what Falwell and his ilk were/are aiming for-- or generally somehow claiming to be trying to "restore"-- is a theocratic, discriminatory America. I'm thinking it's finally on the wane, but for a good twenty years or so, it looked, from year to year, more or less likely that they'd get it. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 00:53:45 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Rock & Roll Steve Schiavo says: > _______________ > Interconnectedness among living beings can be accounted for by > nonlocal quantum entanglement. > does magnetic poetry have a natural science edition? very cool. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 01:06:46 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: 101 uses for a dead cat topic Sweeney says: > ...But, last summer, three real-life people referenced in Robyn's songs died > within about five weeks of each other: One very notable, one fairly > obscure, and one somewhat in-between (although probably known to nearly > everyone out here). i had it all figured out: the pope ronald reagan syd barrett but apparently i have a pretty watery sense of time. and anyway IMO the pope is not all that obscure. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:56:27 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: 101 uses for a dead cat topic On 5/19/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > Sweeney says: > > ...But, last summer, three real-life people referenced in Robyn's songs > died > > within about five weeks of each other: One very notable, one fairly > > obscure, and one somewhat in-between (although probably known to nearly > > everyone out here). > > i had it all figured out: > > the pope > ronald reagan > syd barrett Syd and Arthur Lee must be 2 out of three. Harrison Ford, Nick Lowe, and Condoleeza Rice all still live; Nick Drake, Eazy E and HG Wells remain dead, so I'm not sure who #3 is. - -Rex ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #210 ********************************