From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #206 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, May 17 2007 Volume 16 : Number 206 Today's Subjects: ----------------- "my kids will look like you, i swear" ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: REAP!!!!! [Eleanore Adams ] Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] RE: REAP!!!!! ["Michael Wells" ] Re: am i missing something? [kevin ] Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" [2fs ] Re: Melt Banana to Support TOOL? [2fs ] Re: am i missing something? [2fs ] And now for something completely different [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: Melt Banana to Support TOOL? ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" [Christopher Gross ] Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" [2fs ] Re: Melt Banana to Support TOOL? [2fs ] Re: And now for something completely different [2fs ] Re: And now for something completely different [kevin Subject: "my kids will look like you, i swear" hi fegs, it's an adhd kind of month for me, so i've been renting more television series discs than movies. 1. more "star trek: the next generation" 1a. maybe i've lost sense of perspective, but since jeff 2fs mentioned twin peaks to-day, lieutenant commander data and agent cooper are seeming "separated at birth." 1b. "...takes me right back, when we were young..." of particular interest is the first season. within the first ~six episodes: 1b.1 Q was annoying right from the get go. i'm sure i've missed a lot of the Q episodes for that very reason. i don't know why, but even in the first star trek, i hated when some outside force imposed some sort of unnatural environment upon the enterprise. also, i don't like when the crew puts on plays or has an adventure in the holodeck. to me, it's the writers saying: "we might have a good idea by *next* week." 1.b.2 when riker and deanna meet again, riker can "hear" deanna's thoughts. i guess it took them a while to sort out the concept of "empath." 1.b.3 whenever the crew encounters alien life, deanna more often than not gets completely overwelmed and goes into some sort of painful, emotive, trance, saying things like: "pain. pain! pain!! loneliness. loneliness!! pain!!!" it's like a vulcan mind meld gone wrong. and about as painfully awkward to watch. 1.b.4 the crew encounters the same biological (viral?) agent that the real enterprise encountered in the episode called "the naked time." remember when sulu goes nuts, sworded, sweaty, and shirtless down the corridors? that biological (viral?) agent. anyway, in the next generation episode (it's called "the naked now" and i suppose was an attempt to reach out to the old school fans), even *data* gets infected and acts all fucked-up. i guess it took them a while to sort out the concept of "artificial life form." 1.b.5. in the same episode referred to in bullet 1.b.4., tasha yar gets infected and pretty much goes on a sexual rampage (wearing some way-better-than average star trek evening wear), which culminates with her conquest of *data* who is "fully functional." 1.b.6. i found one consistency: the character of wesley crusher right from the start acts as some sort of weird surrogate husband-figure for dr. crusher. (btw, i love those hackers...in the hacker jargon book, i read there was a newsgroup called "alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die." or something like that.) 2. more BSG. i just finished episode 4 of season 3. boy, this is starting to drag ass. does it pick up again or should i just shoot it now? if you don't know the season / episode indexing, the most recent thing that happened was the folks were just rescued from new caprica and the pegasus got trashed in the process 3. oh, an actual movie - "true confessions" which i believe just came out on dvd, finally. robert deniro was born to play a priest. although if it were "raging bull" i just watched, i'd probably be writing "robert deniro was born to play a boxer."' hopefully, i'll give this one a little write up in the next installment of "movie talk."' 4. no recent trips to the theatre. what a luser i am. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:05:46 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" On 5/16/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > hi fegs, > > it's an adhd kind of month for me, so i've been renting more > television series discs than movies. > > 1. more "star trek: the next generation" > > 1.b.4 the crew encounters the same biological (viral?) agent that the > real enterprise encountered in the episode called "the naked time." > remember when sulu goes nuts, sworded, sweaty, and shirtless down the > corridors? that biological (viral?) agent. anyway, in the next > generation episode (it's called "the naked now" and i suppose was an > attempt to reach out to the old school fans), even *data* gets > infected and acts all fucked-up. i guess it took them a while to sort > out the concept of "artificial life form." I seem to recall that a lot of early ST:TNG eps were rather blatantly hashed updates from OS eps... 1.b.5. in the same episode referred to in bullet 1.b.4., tasha yar > gets infected and pretty much goes on a sexual rampage (wearing some > way-better-than average star trek evening wear), which culminates with > her conquest of *data* who is "fully functional." Tasha Yar...sexual rampage... Uh, I'll be in my bunk. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 05:49:10 -0700 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! On May 15, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > On Wed, 16 May 2007, Michael Sweeney wrote: > >> Jeff Dwarf wrote: >> >>> Satan has called Jerry Falwell home. >> >> "...Oh, no -- such pain! What is happening? Oh...and then -- >> it's all >> gone! But...oh, my -- I must...why I must be dead! Oh, the >> glorious light >> -- here I come, Lord. Oh, Lord you ARE glorious -- I am so glad >> to see you >> and to be...wha-WHAT? What do you mean, that's not what you >> meant? But I >> did everything that I thought you wanted me...What? THEY are your >> children, >> too?!? Oh -- but, what about the fornicat...Oh, them, too, huh? >> But, but >> surely not the ho...Oh, I see -- them, too, even...whattya know? >> I guess I >> kinda screwed that up, huh? Well, at least I meant well -- you DO >> know >> that, right? And at least I can stay, right? WHAT?!? What do >> you mean? >> No, not that -- wait, wait...Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!" > > I'm no fan of Jerry Falwell, but do we actually have to rejoice at his > death? > Yes. eleanore ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:12:32 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" 2fs says: > Tasha Yar...sexual rampage... > > Uh, I'll be in my bunk. http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68312.html Towards the top of the screen, click on "Video - Fully Functional." Then back to your bunk. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:30:05 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Re: Melt Banana to Support TOOL? i can't imagine why you would say such a thing (unless you're perhaps considering the wrong angle?)? more or less. no, i said the *packaging* isn't worth paying $18.98 for when you've already got (or got access to) the music (which is, of course, priceless). better yet, i could be the person who checks it out from the library, rips it, and seeds it for everyone else. or the person who tapes the show and seeds it. or, just the person who maintains a very high share ratio. and somebodies else with different inclinations, and/or skillz, and/or resources at their disposal, might be the ones who spend hours editing wikipedia entries, or leaking CDs months in advance, or writing freeware utilities, or hosting websites on their server. or what have you. and that's why (pace what market-worshipping nitwits who prattle on about the problem of freeloaders would expect you to assume), ultimately, the internet community works so well: people are willing to give back as much as, or more than, they received -- even without any expectation of monetary compensation -- because they appreciate the community and want to see it remain in good health. from : >>The President is talking to us From the pits of hell I know that it's not Nice, but I'm feeling rather swell<< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:48:51 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: RE: REAP!!!!! > I think it's less "rejoicing at his death" than "imagining his getting a more fitting reception in the afterlife than he no doubt expected"... Hopefully he's found something forgiving and compassionate. Based on his use of vitriolic and divisive language in defining differences in spirituality, that might indeed be something of a surprise. Tom: > Is there gonna be another Glass Flesh? Paging Bayard! I myself would be interested in another originals compilation ala "Tinfoil Thoths," and would be willing to contribute. That is if Burning Panda Inferno Records or whatever the hell it was is still a going concern. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:54:43 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: am i missing something? >it disturbs me the popularity of the >phrase "zero tolerance." With things that nobody actually does have >tolerance for - like, say, child molestation - the phrase is meaningless. In >other areas - like, say, the "sex offender" whose offense was having >consensual sex with his 16-yo g/f when he was 18 (actual case in Wisconsin >some years back) - it's obnoxious, and proto-fascist in its law-and-order >worship. The trouble with these viral memes is they're a convenient substitute for actual conscious thought in a populace that's increasingly disinclined (if not outright unable) to engage in that sort of thing. It's the same reason corporate-speak is displacing standard English. Cf. Orwell, 1984, "Newspeak." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:56:08 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" On 5/17/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > 2fs says: > > Tasha Yar...sexual rampage... > > > > Uh, I'll be in my bunk. > > http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68312.html > > Towards the top of the screen, click on "Video - Fully Functional." > Then back to your bunk. I'd forgotten the specifics of that scene - but Tasha Yar does look better when she's not done up to look like David Bowie... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:00:41 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Melt Banana to Support TOOL? On 5/17/07, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > to an "O" than any other letter.> > > i can't imagine why you would say such a thing (unless you're perhaps > considering the wrong angle?)? Well, from side on: | | | | |__| - --looks about as much like a J as this - __ | | | | | | |__| - --looks like an O. That is to say, kinda-sorta. better yet, i could be the person who checks it out from the library, rips > it, and seeds it for everyone else. or the person who tapes the show and > seeds it. or, just the person who maintains a very high share ratio. and > somebodies else with different inclinations, and/or skillz, and/or > resources at their disposal, might be the ones who spend hours editing > wikipedia entries, or leaking CDs months in advance, or writing freeware > utilities, or hosting websites on their server. or what have you. > > and that's why (pace what market-worshipping nitwits who prattle on about > the problem of freeloaders would expect you to assume), ultimately, the > internet community works so well: people are willing to give back as much > as, or more than, they received -- even without any expectation of > monetary > compensation -- because they appreciate the community and want to see it > remain in good health. Exactly. Well put. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:02:09 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: am i missing something? On 5/17/07, kevin wrote: > > >it disturbs me the popularity of the >phrase "zero tolerance." With > things that nobody actually does have >tolerance for - like, say, child > molestation - the phrase is meaningless. In >other areas - like, say, the > "sex offender" whose offense was having >consensual sex with his 16-yo g/f > when he was 18 (actual case in Wisconsin >some years back) - it's obnoxious, > and proto-fascist in its law-and-order > >worship. > > The trouble with these viral memes is they're a convenient substitute for > actual conscious thought in a populace that's increasingly disinclined (if > not outright unable) to engage in that sort of thing. It's the same reason > corporate-speak is displacing standard English. Cf. Orwell, 1984, > "Newspeak." Which is why in my day job (teaching college students how to write) I have zero tolerance (heh-heh) for cliches: they kill thought. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 18:15:52 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: And now for something completely different Seriously. I just moved and there's still some home improvement to do. So I find myself doing that kind of work, which I only do when I have to. Anyway, while setting up a new shelf system (Lundia, which is kind of an upscale IKEA) I noticed that there was a tool I was working with for which I had absolutely no idea what it's called in English. That's rare for me ;-) When I tried to look it up I began to realise that maybe there *is* no proper English word, because the tool itself is not used abroad. What I'm talking about is called a "D|bel" (that's d u-umlaut b e l) in German. The German Wikipedia article tells me that a predecessor was invented in 1910 by an Englishman named John Joseph Rawlings. Ah, update: I just found it. Mr. Rawlings invented the original Rawlplug. The current form of what is generically called a "wall plug" was however invented by the German Artur Fischer, also know for Fischertechnik (I used to love that as a kid). OK, so Brits seem to use them, but if you compare the German and the English Wikipedia articles you can tell right away that it's not as important in English-speaking countries as it is here: So, are wall plugs used in the US at all? If not, why not? They are pure genius, let me tell you! Artur Fischer has 1,080 patents to his name. He's 87, but still trying to catch Thomas Edison, who held 1,093 patents. Further linguistics: English "dowel" is apparently the same word as "D|bel". A dowel is also called D|bel in German, but mostly we mean wall plugs when we use the word. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:22:57 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: RE: REAP!!!!! >Hopefully he's found something forgiving and compassionate. Based on his >use of vitriolic and divisive language in defining differences in >spirituality, that might indeed be something of a surprise. > I'd rather imagine it as something more like The Screwtape Letters. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:31:42 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Melt Banana to Support TOOL? 2fs wrote: > >> and that's why ... ultimately, the >> internet community works so well: people are willing to give back as much >> as, or more than, they received > > Exactly. Well put. except that "leaking CDs months in advance" isn't a creative process. Stewart np: Boards of Canada - Twoism ps: Asthma medication rocks. You should try it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:55:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" On Wed, 16 May 2007, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > 2. more BSG. i just finished episode 4 of season 3. boy, this is > starting to drag ass. does it pick up again or should i just shoot it > now? if you don't know the season / episode indexing, the most recent > thing that happened was the folks were just rescued from new caprica > and the pegasus got trashed in the process In my opinion it's worth sticking with. A couple of the later episodes were weak, but there's also some that kick ass. You learn a little more about Cylon society, there are a couple of developments in the ongoing search for Earth, and there are several character-centered episodes. And there are a few that are just ... weird. Which is often good, in my opinion. (Disclaimer: I actually liked the New Caprica episodes, so my opinions might not be anything you want to be guided by.) In other TV news, I have to agree with Michael Sweeney's take on The Sopranos. Tony's epiphany at the end was a morally appalling one: he decided he has been right all along, and in particular was right to commit a certain murder early in the episode. He thinks his sudden winning streak near the end (in contrast to his string of gambling losses a couple of episodes ago) is a sign from the universe that he's on the right track now and his luck will start to improve. But if that *is* what Tony was thinking, I rather suspect that events will prove him wrong. We'll see.... > 4. no recent trips to the theatre. what a luser i am. Gonna see _28 Weeks Later_ this weekend. Zombies rock. Right now, as part of the pre-graduation celebration in the courtyard next to my office, a Journey tribute band is playing. Who knew such a thing even existed? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:09:40 -0700 From: "Jason Brown" Subject: Re: And now for something completely different On 5/17/07, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > So, are wall plugs used in the US at all? If not, why not? In the US, we have them they are called "screw anchors". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:31:20 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: REAP!!!!! On 5/17/07, kevin wrote: > > >Hopefully he's found something forgiving and compassionate. Based on his > >use of vitriolic and divisive language in defining differences in > >spirituality, that might indeed be something of a surprise. > > > > I'd rather imagine it as something more like The Screwtape Letters. > I suspect also that people's reactions here have something to do with their metaphysical beliefs. If they believe there actually is an afterlife, I suppose such speculations about Falwell in hell are uncharitable. If on the other hand, they believe there's no such thing as an afterlife, talking about it is little more than rhetoric, along the lines of saying "I hope he gets gored by a unicorn." (Finally! Found the name of my new band: Gored by Unicorns! Includes the exclamation mark.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:43:30 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" On 5/17/07, Christopher Gross wrote: > > > Right now, as part of the pre-graduation celebration in the courtyard next > to my office, a Journey tribute band is playing. Who knew such a thing > even existed? Satan? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:34:54 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Melt Banana to Support TOOL? On 5/17/07, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > > >> and that's why ... ultimately, the > >> internet community works so well: people are willing to give back as > much > >> as, or more than, they received > > > > Exactly. Well put. > > except that "leaking CDs months in advance" isn't a creative process. It's irrelevant one way or another. CD release dates have to do with accounting calendars, not with when the music's done. I suspect most musicians want the music released as soon as it's done, not delayed six months to take best advantage of some shopping season. Funny how most artists don't seem to have a problem with filesharing: it's the record companies who are bent out of shape. (I will reiterate: musicians cannot, and never have been able to, reasonably expect to make a living on their music. Some can - good for them - but that shouldn't be the *reason* one makes music. Same's true of most arts, in fact.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:50:03 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: And now for something completely different On 5/17/07, Jason Brown wrote: > > On 5/17/07, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > So, are wall plugs used in the US at all? If not, why not? > > In the US, we have them they are called "screw anchors". I didn't want to bother trying to puzzle through the German wikipedia page with my extremely rudimentary German, so I ran it through Babelfish... Anyway, my favorite part is this: *The screwing evils *in such a way specified usually consists of PP and is from the function a spreading peg. I take it back: my band will not be called Gored by Unicorns!, it will be The Screwing Evils. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:46:42 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: >> Right now, as part of the pre-graduation celebration in the courtyard next >> to my office, a Journey tribute band is playing. Who knew such a thing >> even existed? > > > >Satan? > I have it on good authority that Satan is a huge Carpenters fan. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 12:48:48 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: And now for something completely different >I take it back: my band will not be called Gored by Unicorns!, it will be >The Screwing Evils. > I always wanted to start a band called The Stumblin' Dummies. Probably been done though. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:52:29 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: FW: "my kids will look like you, i swear" - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of 2fs Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 2:44 PM To: You F*ckers Subject: Re: "my kids will look like you, i swear" On 5/17/07, Christopher Gross wrote: >> >> >> Right now, as part of the pre-graduation celebration in the courtyard >> next to my office, a Journey tribute band is playing. Who knew such a >> thing even existed? >Satan? I never bought any Journey albums, or Foreigner albums for that matter, but wasn't the first Journey album before Steve Perry joined the band supposed to have been half way decent? At lease that was my impression of them that I always had before Perry joined. I am guessing we all have some albums from bad 70's bands in our collection. It's mostly just a 1 album mistake though for me, and I never bought a second one by the same bad band. I'll own up to 3 or 4 Uriah Heap albums though. MJ Bachman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:02:52 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: And now for something completely different 2fs says: > I didn't want to bother trying to puzzle through the German wikipedia page > with my extremely rudimentary German, so I ran it through Babelfish... > Anyway, my favorite part is this: > > *The screwing evils *in such a way specified usually consists of PP and is > from the function a spreading > peg. > When I clicked, I had a reference to the "spreading peg" (frankly, it's making me a little uncomfortable.) And I love the edit box that's called "the play meadow." x "You can't make this stuff up" o - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:57:39 EDT From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: NEW ON DIME : Syd Trib with Robyn , R W and P F _http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=147083_ (http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=147083) SYD BARRETT - madcap's last laugh VARIOUS ARTISTS london barbican center 10.may.2007 SOURCE: sonic studio dsm 6 (w/ pre-amp & bass roll off) > sony tcd d7 TRANSFER: tascam da 302 > marantz dr 6000 > eac to disk > soundforge > cd wave > flac LOCATION: row g, center TOTAL: 125:07 disc 1 of 2 - 51:50 01 02 sense of sound choir - bike 03 captain sensible & monty oxymoron - flaming 04 kevin ayers - here i go 05 kevin ayers - oh, what a dream 06 nick laird-clowes & damon albarn - baby lemonade 07 the bees - octopus 08 nick laird-clowes & neulander - the gnome 09 mike heron - matilda mother 10 martha wainright, kate mcgarrigle & lily lanken - golden hair 11 martha wainright, kate mcgarrigle & lily lanken - see emily play - -- 12 roger waters & jon carin - flickering flame - -- disc 2 of 2 - 73:17 01 02 nick laird-clowes & sense of sound choir - chapter 24 03 vashti bunyan, gareth dickson & nick laird-clowes - the scarecrow 04 vashti bunyan, gareth dickson & nick laird-clowes - love song 05 06 damon albarn, kate st. john & david coulter - the Word Song 07 captain sensible & jon carin - astronomy domine 08 robyn hitchcock - terrapin 09 robyn hitchcock, john paul jones & ruby wright - gigolo aunt 10 chrissie hynde & adam seymour - dark globe (wouldn't you miss me) 11 chrissie hynde & adam seymour - late night 12 13 pink floyd - arnold layne 14 < break | jugband blues video> 15 all (except for r.w.) - bike (fades out) NOTES: - - sorry for the gap / cut before roger waters. had to take a p.., glad i only missed his intro. - - thanx to jeff for the advance warning - - thanx to ian for coping with ... - - some very nice pix & http://www.optifanatics.com/SydBarrett.aspx PLEASE DO NOT UPLOAD ON OTHER TRACKERS FOR A WEEK - TA !!! ENJOY AND SHARE !!! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 23:07:10 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: And now for something completely different - -- Jason Brown is rumored to have mumbled on 17. Mai 2007 10:09:40 -0700 regarding Re: And now for something completely different: > On 5/17/07, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >> So, are wall plugs used in the US at all? If not, why not? > > In the US, we have them they are called "screw anchors". Thanks. Hm, Wikipedia has separate entries for wall plugs and screw anchors, though ... - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #206 ********************************