From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #202 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, May 15 2007 Volume 16 : Number 202 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Oh No! [Tom Clark ] Joe Henry [2fs ] Re: reap ["Michael Sweeney" ] Re: Oh No! ["Michael Sweeney" ] re: Oh No! ["Marc Holden" ] RE: other people's books ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: the material world [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: the material world ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: the material world [Sebastian Hagedorn ] "I find laughter preferable to tears" he says. [FSThomas ] Re: the material world [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: the material world [2fs ] Re: the material world [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: other people's books [Rex ] Re: the material world [Rex ] Re: other people's books [2fs ] Re: the material world [Rex ] Re: the material world ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Oh No! [Rex ] Re: other people's books ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: other people's books [Rex ] Re: HARP MAG ["Michael Sweeney" ] Re: the material world ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 20:15:20 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Oh No! On May 13, 2007, at 6:34 PM, Barbara Soutar wrote: > I just noticed that I sent a personal to the Feglist by mistake. > Whoops. That's embarrassing. That's ok Barbara. We'll all be there on Tuesday, make sure there's beer! - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:39:14 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Joe Henry I don't recall Joe Henry being mentioned here - but I suspect there are at least a few fans, who would be interested in this: < http://jefitoblog.com/blog/?p=1201> - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 07:32:52 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: reap Lauren reaped: >sorry, the posting's a bit delayed. >http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSL1071991520070511 ...Appropriately enough... Michael "If only he'd been smoking in bed, he coulda been cremated" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_MAY07 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 07:57:09 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: Oh No! Barbara lamented: >I just noticed that I sent a personal to the Feglist by mistake. Whoops. >That's embarrassing. But at least it was an interesting read! Isn't that the ultimate fear of even the mildly creative (much less the brilliant, good-looking, talented crew that are teh Fegs) -- that their communications are not even worth snoopy eavesdropping? I think there was a Woody Allen bit (or, really, it could've even been something _I_ wrote ages ago, trying to mock the Woodster's "Shouts and Murmurs" type of piece) about finding out the government was tapping the phone and reading the mail...but, sadly, it wasn't holding their interest... Michael Sweeney Come to think of it, the whole "gov't invading yer private communications" idea ain't so chucklesome these days... _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 23:32:31 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: re: Oh No! Barbara blushed: >I just noticed that I sent a personal to the Feglist >by mistake. Whoops. That's embarrassing. I did the same thing a day or two ago. I noticed a post in the digest that I thought had gone out to a friend, and I felt like a moron for a moment or two. But it probably wasn't that much worse than some posts that I've sent intentionally. Don't sweat it, Marc There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life. Frank Zappa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:24:17 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: other people's books - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 12:22 PM To: Lauren Elizabeth Cc: a sweet little cupcake...baked by the devil! Subject: Re: other people's books On 5/12/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: >> >> >> at any rate, i liked 'white noise' - any death fixation is okay in my >> book. i think my father liked 'underworld' and perhaps some more >> recent delillo, Rex wrote; >There's such a specific history of imagery associated with sports films (or any genre, really-- the loaded >idea of a gun has a very different history and connotation in film than lit) that each image evokes a whole history of similar stuff, and brings with it that baggage, good and the bad. Lit writers have more time and leeway to fill in the spaces and differentiate their iteration from previous ones... >Of course there's a ton of things film can do that lit can't.... I'm just saying that some topics, from my >point of view, are so much better served by one medium that I don't like to see them treated at all in the >other (unless addressed in an experimental or decidedly non-Hollywood fashion). Weird. I like a lot of authors who deal with that masculinity topic; Roth works with it a lot. Anyway. Yeah. I thought that John Sayles did a great job transforming the book "Eight Men Out" into a movie. Then again I could be prejudiced as I like all of John's movies. He's adapt at making male centered movies (Eight Men Out, Lone Star, Brother from Another Planet) female centered movies (Passion Fish, Lianna) or movies that feature both at the center (Return of the Secaucus Seven, Limbo). MJ Bachman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 15:16:55 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: the material world hi fegs, i was doing my ~quarterly cd filing, and was wondering... what do people do with those cardboard cd sleeves that some cds come in? you know those covers that kind of make it like the cd is coming out of a little album sleeve (e.g joanna newsom's "Ys" came in one, the 2-disc "funhouse" came in one)? i find them really annoying. i usually just put them in a stack here or there and until they eventually irritate me enough that i throw them away. i don't even know what the point of those sleeves is. maybe they are supposed to protect the jewel case (another stupid cd thing, imo - calling that plastic case a "jewel case.") but if you would actually use them, i think the only thing they would do is protect the cd from ever being played. i am trying to think if a robyn cd ever came in one of those dumb things but i can't recall any that did. more proof (and you know, i *do* need proof...) that robyn is cool. probably if i had gotten one from a robyn cd, i would feel compelled not to throw it out, and i haven't noticed any hanging around. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:26:16 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: the material world - -- Lauren Elizabeth is rumored to have mumbled on 14. Mai 2007 15:16:55 -0400 regarding the material world: > i don't even know what the point of those sleeves is. I don't mind them. > maybe they are > supposed to protect the jewel case (another stupid cd thing, imo - > calling that plastic case a "jewel case.") Back when CDs were new I heard the case being refered to as the "plastic oyster", I think. I'm sure about the oyster part, but not about "plastic". Hm, might've been "crystal oyster", even. Apparently that was too far over the top even for business people. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:00:32 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: the material world Sebastian Hagedorn says: > -- Lauren Elizabeth is rumored to have mumbled on > 14. Mai 2007 15:16:55 -0400 regarding the material world: > > > i don't even know what the point of those sleeves is. > > I don't mind them. but what do you do with them? do you keep the cds inside of them? > Back when CDs were new I heard the case being refered to as the "plastic > oyster", I think. I'm sure about the oyster part, but not about "plastic". > Hm, might've been "crystal oyster", even. Apparently that was too far over > the top even for business people. i like "crystal oyster." it sounds like a weird drug. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 23:11:34 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: the material world - -- Lauren Elizabeth is rumored to have mumbled on 14. Mai 2007 17:00:32 -0400 regarding Re: the material world: >> > i don't even know what the point of those sleeves is. >> >> I don't mind them. > > but what do you do with them? do you keep the cds inside of them? Sure. The shelf I had for my CDs in my old appartment accomodated them just fine. Since I moved I haven't even unpacked my CDs yet. I don't play them anyway. They're all on my Mac and thus on my iPod, and that's where I do all my listening. Still I can't bring myself to selling them or even storing them away ... - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:18:39 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: "I find laughter preferable to tears" he says. A pretty old John Cage performance of Water Walk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSulycqZH-U - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:19:20 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: the material world - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Lauren Elizabeth Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 5:01 PM To: a sweet little cupcake...baked by the devil! Subject: Re: the material world Sebastian Hagedorn says: >> -- Lauren Elizabeth is rumored to have mumbled >> on 14. Mai 2007 15:16:55 -0400 regarding the material world: >> >> > i don't even know what the point of those sleeves is. >> >> I don't mind them. Lauren wrote: >but what do you do with them? do you keep the cds inside of them? I keep them until they get ragged, them I toss them. Digipacks need them more than cd's. You can always transfer jewel box artwork and liner notes to another jewel box. Once a digipack gets ragged looking, your stuck with it's ragged looking condition. >> Back when CDs were new I heard the case being refered to as the >> "plastic oyster", I think. I'm sure about the oyster part, but not about "plastic". >> Hm, might've been "crystal oyster", even. Apparently that was too far >>over the top even for business people. Lauren wrote: >i like "crystal oyster." it sounds like a weird drug. It does. Almost like a Echo song. The Norwegian group Bel Canto had a beautiful song titled "Oyster", full of imagery of an oyster calling out for a single pebble to come along. I was hoping that a video for it would show up in YouTube, but so far nothing. I think it's on their cd Rite of Passage. The whole cd is full of good songs. MJ Bachman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 14:51:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: the material world On Mon, 14 May 2007, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > Since I moved I haven't even unpacked my CDs yet. I don't play them > anyway. They're all on my Mac and thus on my iPod, and that's where I do > all my listening. Still I can't bring myself to selling them or even > storing them away ... I think I'm going to divest myself of all my CDs before my big move in a couple of months. At first, I was going to just take the whole lot down to one of the local used record shops and dump them for whatever they'll pay me. But whilst double-checking a track listing against amazon.com (so I didn't have to go track down the CD sleeve), I noticed that Hardcore Devo Volume 1 is selling for something like $50. (OK, I just checked and there are now a couple of copies for $25, but I doubt I'd even get that locally.) So now I'm not quite sure what to do with them. And the idea of ditching ALL of my CDs is kind of terrifying, but I really can't imagine ever needing them again and the world is so full of collectors, it seems pretty unlikely that I'm doing any kind of great archival service to the world. I'm having a pretty rough time with it all around. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 00:13:07 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: the material world - -- Capuchin is rumored to have mumbled on 14. Mai 2007 14:51:51 -0700 regarding Re: the material world: > I'm having a pretty rough time with it all around. "It" being the whole moving? I've lived in Cologne all my life, so who am I to talk, but from what you wrote it seemed like a good thing, all things considered. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:26:57 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: the material world On 5/14/07, Bachman, Michael wrote: > > - > Sebastian Hagedorn says: > >> -- Lauren Elizabeth is rumored to have > mumbled > >> on 14. Mai 2007 15:16:55 -0400 regarding the material world: > >> > >> > i don't even know what the point of those sleeves is. > > Lauren wrote: > >but what do you do with them? do you keep the cds inside of them? Are you talking about the cardboard wraparound that some CDs (notably, on Nonesuch Records) have? I think they're just another packaging option. Sometimes, when the artwork or information is redundant with the rest of the packaging, I just toss them. But in some cases (for example, Magnetic Fields' _i_ which we were just discussing), the wraparound is integral to the packaging. (Speaking of that album, it was just the other day that I finally got the joke: all the songs' titles begin with "i" yes - but between "I," "in," "it," and "if," you can pretty readily retitle *any* song to begin with the letter "I." Certainly, more than almost any other letter excepting possibly "T" (the, this, they, etc.).) I keep them until they get ragged, them I toss them. Digipacks need them > more than cd's. You can always transfer jewel box artwork and liner > notes to another jewel box. Once a digipack gets ragged looking, your > stuck with it's ragged looking condition. True, but...I've never seen a digipak that comes in a cardboard wraparound as well. Perhaps I'm obsessive...but I tend to keep my CDs carefully enough that things don't become ragged. I'm not sure why the cases are called "jewel boxes" or "jewel cases" - but at least it's a distinctive term, so you can refer to a jewel box and people will know what you mean (as opposed to: the plastic thingy that CDs come in). As an aside (and with no particular data on whether the same people are making the argument), I find it amusing that anti-CD people will cite saving space as an argument...while the far more massive LP finds its advocates despite its size. My basis for this is beginning my collection back in vinyl days and having to cart about 1,000 of the buggers in wooden crates every time I moved (like back in college): they were like Chuck D's Uzi. Whereas CDs are far lighter, and pack more readily into boxes that can be sealed. Of course, putting all your sound files on a single hard-drive is even more compact. Until you lose the data. I can't see taking that risk. Incidentally, I have no idea (i.e., am too lazy to do the math) but: how many GBs would 5,000 CDs encoded at 256kbps take up? (Assume an average length of 50 minutes - which, as it happens, is nearly correct for my collection. My average track length is 3:51. Because someone somewhere must care. Oh - and show your work.) Did someone here offer a reason as to why it was *not* likely that full-fidelity sound files would ever be the online standard (i.e., .wav files)? Is there some bandwidth or storage limitation that makes that unlikely? Because if not, people who've relegated their entire collection to mp3s are going to feel like folks who recorded everything to cassette in the '80s then ditched the LPs... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 16:51:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: the material world 2fs wrote: > I've never seen a digipak that comes in a cardboard > wraparound as well. Tom Waits's _Used Songs_ compilation is a digipak in an O-Card (which, I believe is the technical name for the cardboard wraparounds; look at it from the side to see why). I think I have a few others as well, especially multi-disc sets in digipaks. "Children have always enjoyed my movies. They are just not allowed to watch many of them." -- John Waters . ____________________________________________________________________________________Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:46:54 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: other people's books On 5/14/07, Bachman, Michael wrote: > > > > I thought that John Sayles did a great job transforming the book "Eight > Men Out" into a movie. Then again I could be prejudiced as I like all of > John's movies. He's adapt at making male centered movies (Eight Men Out, > Lone Star, Brother from Another Planet) female centered movies (Passion > Fish, Lianna) or movies that feature both at the center (Return of the > Secaucus Seven, Limbo). A humanist filmmaker? "Lone Star" remains a favorite with me. I haven't seen every Sayles movie, but I usually like even the ones on which most people are "meh", so I should probably make it a point to do so. Review of the new Neal Labute play "Fat Pig" (no, I can't make this stuff up) in the LA Times today once again claims that the only way to not like or see the fundamental truth in his work is if you "don't get it". Incidentally, the music of Robyn Hitchcock is "quirky". - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:51:28 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: the material world On 5/14/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > what do people do with those cardboard cd sleeves that some cds come > in? you know those covers that kind of make it like the cd is coming > out of a little album sleeve (e.g joanna newsom's "Ys" came in one, > the 2-disc "funhouse" came in one)? i find them really annoying. i > usually just put them in a stack here or there and until they > eventually irritate me enough that i throw them away. I just keep them and watch them slowly get kinda beaten up, always thinking that each ding or scrape on the image obliterates four times more of its surface area than the same damage would on an LP. Weirder still, how about the ones that now come with like a piece of paper with one fold in them which covers approximately the top and the upper 1/4 of the cover image, usually duplicating the cover image but with some hype or other incentive copy overlaid? I usually tuck those in the case, but eventually they fall out and I realize I don't care. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 19:55:20 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: other people's books On 5/14/07, Rex wrote: > > Review of the new Neal Labute play "Fat Pig" (no, I can't make this stuff > up) in the LA Times today once again claims that the only way to not like > or > see the fundamental truth in his work is if you "don't get it". I thought the critical cliche was that the only way you don't get his work is if you don't like or see its fundamental truth... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:57:22 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: the material world On 5/14/07, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > > Back when CDs were new I heard the case being refered to as the "plastic > oyster", I think. I'm sure about the oyster part, but not about "plastic". > Hm, might've been "crystal oyster", even. Apparently that was too far over > the top even for business people. Hmmm... the old plastic hinged VHS cases were called "clamshell cases" in industryspeak... what's with the previously unnoticed connection between media packaging molluscs? Jeffrey: > Did someone here offer a reason as to why it was *not* likely that > full-fidelity sound files would ever be the online standard (i.e., .wav > files)? Is there some bandwidth or storage limitation that makes that > unlikely? Because if not, people who've relegated their entire collection > to > mp3s are going to feel like folks who recorded everything to cassette in > the > '80s then ditched the LPs... > That's largely why I still haven't parted with mine, and probably won't even consider it until I face a move of the magnitude of Jeme's. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:59:26 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: the material world Sebastian Hagedorn says: > -- Capuchin is rumored to have mumbled on 14. Mai > 2007 14:51:51 -0700 regarding Re: the material world: > > > I'm having a pretty rough time with it all around. > > "It" being the whole moving? I've lived in Cologne all my life, so who am I > to talk, but from what you wrote it seemed like a good thing, all things > considered. If "it" does == moving, you have my sympathies. "Moving" is up there on my list of unpleasant things to do, pretty close to "public speaking" and "dying." It seems like the perfect time to clear out possessions, but on the other hand, it's fairly easy to see it as the perfect time to hold onto them. "They" say even positive changes are quite stressful; even if a move is a positive and happy thing, it can still be very difficult. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:41:32 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: Oh No! On 5/14/07, Michael Sweeney wrote: > > > But at least it was an interesting read! Isn't that the ultimate fear of > even the mildly creative (much less the brilliant, good-looking, talented > crew that are teh Fegs) -- that their communications are not even worth > snoopy eavesdropping? Yes, particularly those of us who have been repeatedly told so. Anyhow, I read Barbara's accidental post and found it worthy of archiving-- a little feggy slice of life, if you will. And I think you will. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 21:09:13 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: other people's books Rex says: > On 5/14/07, Bachman, Michael wrote: > > > > > > > > I thought that John Sayles did a great job transforming the book "Eight > > Men Out" into a movie. Then again I could be prejudiced as I like all of > > John's movies. He's adapt at making male centered movies (Eight Men Out, > > Lone Star, Brother from Another Planet) female centered movies (Passion > > Fish, Lianna) or movies that feature both at the center (Return of the > > Secaucus Seven, Limbo). > > > A humanist filmmaker? > > "Lone Star" remains a favorite with me. I haven't seen every Sayles movie, > but I usually like even the ones on which most people are "meh", so I should > probably make it a point to do so. "Limbo" was by far my favourite. There are a number of his movies that I've liked very much, and others that I probably didn't even finish watching. That one about developers in Florida I think I left the movie theatre (in all fairness, I should say I likely would have stayed except that I was with a date who clearly was not enjoying himself.) That was Sayles, wasn't it? The "penultimate" boyfriend (not the second-to-last boyfriend, but the grammar hound who liked the word "penultimate") used to be amused when instead of "Men With Guns," I would accidentally call it "Men Without Guns."' xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 18:14:10 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: other people's books On 5/14/07, 2fs wrote: > > On 5/14/07, Rex wrote: > > > > Review of the new Neal Labute play "Fat Pig" (no, I can't make this > stuff > > up) in the LA Times today once again claims that the only way to not > like > > or > > see the fundamental truth in his work is if you "don't get it". > > > I thought the critical cliche was that the only way you don't get his work > is if you don't like or see its fundamental truth... Somethin' like that. It's all a misanthropic blur. And sorry, that was XTC with the "quirky" thing... Robyn is of course "eccentric". - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 02:37:33 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: HARP MAG HwyCDRrev@aol.com posted: >Robyn Hitchcock: >Sex, Food, Death and Insects >By _Randy Harward_ >(http://harpmagazine.com/guides/contributors/detail.cfm?id=3) Man, talk about treading no new ground...I hate pieces where the writer fancy-dances around so much, attempting to draw more attention to themselves than to their subjects -- kinda like Conan O'Brien's "interview" style, where most celebs' responses are steered back into set-ups for Conan's (usually only so-so) canned laugh lines...(But, anyway -- thanx for the post...) ...It's like I tell prospective clients regularly -- the most clever, supposedly artfully written, ego-driven piece that does NOT serve the ultimate ends (or the clients' needs, etc.) might as well be hackish crap. Michael Sweeney ...Although the author's closing line in his contributor's bio that he "would like to borrow some money" is oh-so-charming and heee-larious! _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 02:00:35 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: the material world Sebastian Hagedorn says: > -- Lauren Elizabeth is rumored to have mumbled on > 14. Mai 2007 17:00:32 -0400 regarding Re: the material world: > > but what do you do with them? do you keep the cds inside of them? > > Sure. The shelf I had for my CDs in my old appartment accomodated them just > fine. Since I moved I haven't even unpacked my CDs yet. I don't play them > anyway. They're all on my Mac and thus on my iPod, and that's where I do > all my listening. well that's likely why you don't mind them. if you don't actually use the cd, they are not annoysome* in the least. xo * yes i think made that word up (thank you.) feel free to use it, royalty-free. - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #202 ********************************