From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #157 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, April 18 2007 Volume 16 : Number 157 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: by any other name... [kevin ] Re: by any other name... [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: by any other name... [Rex ] Re: reap x 33 [2fs ] attn: F.S. Thomas [2fs ] Re: by any other name... ["Michael Sweeney" ] Re: gun laws ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: by any other name... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: by any other name... [2fs ] Re: by any other name... [Rex ] Re: by any other name... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Guns ["Stacked Crooked" ] robyn update [HwyCDRrev@aol.com] Re: by any other name... [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: robyn update [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: by any other name... [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: by any other name... [Benjamin Lukoff ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:05:51 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: by any other name... >> Eeewww, please - not the L-word! I feel about libertarians the way a lot of gay >> people feel about bisexuals - they're just Republicans who're stuck in the closet... > >I'm not sure how one could fairly see that most libertarians or >Libertarians are for things that are completely antithetical to the >Republican party. Things like drug legalization, gay rights, civil >rights, and all the other stuff that falls under the banner of >personal freedom. Ayup, as a buddy of mine once summed it up as "they're just pot-smoking Republicans," which was funny if not totally accurate. What I find intolerable about the ones I've been trapped in close quarters with is the insufferable air of smugness - what David Ossman once summarized as "the I'm-just-naturally-better-than-you" attitude. (Although I may have recalled that wrong, in which case he was actually referring to the elder Bush.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:04:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: by any other name... On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, kevin wrote: > >> Eeewww, please - not the L-word! I feel about libertarians the way a lot of gay > >> people feel about bisexuals - they're just Republicans who're stuck in the closet... > > > >I'm not sure how one could fairly see that most libertarians or > >Libertarians are for things that are completely antithetical to the > >Republican party. Things like drug legalization, gay rights, civil > >rights, and all the other stuff that falls under the banner of > >personal freedom. > > Ayup, as a buddy of mine once summed it up as "they're just pot-smoking > Republicans," which was funny if not totally accurate. What I find > intolerable about the ones I've been trapped in close quarters with is > the insufferable air of smugness - what David Ossman once summarized as > "the I'm-just-naturally-better-than-you" attitude. (Although I may have > recalled that wrong, in which case he was actually referring to the > elder Bush.) I can see that, but they certainly don't monopolize the attitude! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:12:34 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: by any other name... On 4/17/07, kevin wrote: > > >> Eeewww, please - not the L-word! I feel about libertarians the way a > lot of gay > >> people feel about bisexuals - they're just Republicans who're stuck in > the closet... > > > >I'm not sure how one could fairly see that most libertarians or > >Libertarians are for things that are completely antithetical to the > >Republican party. Things like drug legalization, gay rights, civil > >rights, and all the other stuff that falls under the banner of > >personal freedom. > > Ayup, as a buddy of mine once summed it up as "they're just pot-smoking > Republicans," which was funny if not totally accurate. What I find > intolerable about the ones I've been trapped in close quarters with is the > insufferable air of smugness - what David Ossman once summarized as "the > I'm-just-naturally-better-than-you" attitude. (Although I may have recalled > that wrong, in which case he was actually referring to the elder Bush.) Word. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:08:59 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: reap x 33 Oh - a friend thought of another item to add to this list: On 4/16/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > 2fs says: > > On the other hand, even assuming concealed-carry laws would apply to > > students or faculty on college campuses (many such laws have > exemptions), > > for "an armed citizen [to] have dropped that toll a lot lower," such a > > citizen would have had to have (a) been on the scene, (b) ID'd the > gunman, > > (c) not be seen first by the gunman, (d) have the will to shoot the > gunman > > (people talk macho talk - but you're still in the position of taking > another > > person's life, even if you realize that in doing so you might save > others' > > lives), (e) shoot well the first time, so as to avoid (f) being targeted > > directly by the gunman after the citizen misses the first shot. Long > odds, > > if you ask me. Add (g): hope that the cops don't arrive - not yet knowing the identity of the shooter - shortly after you've pulled the trigger on the gunman, after which you die in a hail of bullets. See, one good thing about that "if guns are outlawed only outlaws have guns" thing: it makes it easier to tell who's the outlaw. One more tragic element of this situation: that campus police could dismiss as a "domestic dispute" an incident involving a gun (see < http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18142745/>) - presumably because there's nothing illegal about owning a gun, so why think anything's particularly wrong when someone threatens someone with one? Here's my not-so-modest proposal: attach serious prison time to any offense involving use of a gun, deployment of a gun (whether fired or not), even *imitation* of a gun (fingers in the pocket, toy gun for real). The first condition does exist fairly commonly, i believe - but the others might do some good. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:32:50 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: attn: F.S. Thomas Virginia's concealed carry law: - --- Any person 21 years of age or older may apply in writing to the clerk of the circuit court of the county or city in which he resides, or if he is a member of the United States Armed Forces, the county or city in which he is domiciled, for a five-year permit to carry a concealed handgun. There shall be no requirement regarding the length of time an applicant has been a resident or domiciliary of the county or city. The application shall be made under oath before a notary or other person qualified to take oaths and shall be made only on a form prescribed by the Department of State Police, in consultation with the Supreme Court, requiring only that information necessary to determine eligibility for the permit. The clerk shall enter on the application the date on which the application and all other information required to be submitted by the applicant is received. The court shall consult with either the sheriff or police department of the county or city and receive a report from the Central Criminal Records Exchange. As a condition for issuance of a concealed handgun permit, the applicant shall submit to fingerprinting if required by local ordinance in the county or city where the applicant resides and provide personal descriptive information to be forwarded with the fingerprints through the Central Criminal Records Exchange to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for the purpose of obtaining criminal history record information regarding the applicant, and obtaining fingerprint identification information from federal records pursuant to criminal investigations by state and local law-enforcement agencies. Where feasible and practical, the local law-enforcement agency may transfer information electronically to the State Police instead of inked fingerprint cards. Upon completion of the criminal history records check, the State Police shall return the fingerprint cards to the submitting local agency or, in the case of scanned fingerprints, destroy the electronic record. The local agency shall then promptly notify the person that he has 21 days from the date of the notice to request return of the fingerprint cards, if any. All fingerprint cards not claimed by the applicant within 21 days of notification by the local agency shall be destroyed. All optically scanned fingerprints shall be destroyed upon completion of the criminal history records check without requiring that the applicant be notified. Fingerprints taken for the purposes described in this section shall not be copied, held or used for any other purposes. The court shall issue the permit and notify the State Police of the issuance of the permit within 45 days of receipt of the completed application unless it is determined that the applicant is disqualified. Any order denying issuance of the permit shall state the basis for the denial of the permit and the applicant's right to and the requirements for perfecting an appeal of such order pursuant to subsection L. An application is deemed complete when all information required to be furnished by the applicant is delivered to and received by the clerk of court before or concomitant with the conduct of a state or national criminal history records check. If the court has not issued the permit or determined that the applicant is disqualified within 45 days of the date of receipt noted on the application, the clerk shall certify on the application that the 45-day period has expired, and send a copy of the certified application to the applicant. The certified application shall serve as a de facto permit, which shall expire 90 days after issuance, and shall be recognized as a valid concealed handgun permit when presented with a valid government-issued photo identification pursuant to subsection H, until the court issues a five-year permit or finds the applicant to be disqualified. If the applicant is found to be disqualified after the de facto permit is issued, the applicant shall surrender the de facto permit to the court and the disqualification shall be deemed a denial of the permit and a revocation of the de facto permit. If the applicant is later found by the court to be disqualified after a five-year permit has been issued, the permit shall be revoked. The clerk of court may withhold from public disclosure the social security number contained in a permit application in response to a request to inspect or copy any such permit application, except that such social security number shall not be withheld from any law-enforcement officer acting in the performance of his official duties. - --------- - --http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308 - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:41:06 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: Re: by any other name... Jason said: >Aren't all perverts also libertarians? There was some movie directed >by Johnny Depp... Did you mean "The Libertine"? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0375920/) But...of course, that's not the same thing (plus, he didn't direct it). ...Eh, it's all grist for some mill or another... Michael Sweeney Maybe it's the guns...(http://www.cherylwheeler.com/songs/iiwutm.html) _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:42:58 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: gun laws 2fs says: > Here's my not-so-modest proposal: attach serious prison time to any offense > involving use of a gun, deployment of a gun (whether fired or not), even > *imitation* of a gun (fingers in the pocket, toy gun for real). The first > condition does exist fairly commonly, i believe - but the others might do > some good. All good ideas. And all were the case in the jurisdiction in which I was robbed. Well, I'm not sure about the "fingers in the pocket" but even a toy gun carries a heavy penalty where I was at the time (Oakland). Unfortunately it was also a jurisdiction in which people seem so used to gun crime that the cop who attended to my call seem rather surprised that I was visibly shaken up by being confronted by a gunman in my small, enclosed (at least on three sides) garage. Note: I'm really only responding to the part of your e-mail which I quoted and I don't even know what my point is except that enforcement of current gun laws seems to me (from my admittedly narrow and personal perspective) to be quite a joke. xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:54:08 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: by any other name... Sebastian says: > --On 12. April 2007 17:55:14 -0400 Lauren Elizabeth > wrote: > > but as usual, i > > found myself talking about books much more than actually reading them. > > Did you talk about books you hadn't read, or did you talk > about books you'd read, but not for the club? uhyes ;) > i really love his ideas, but have trouble with the > > implementation i guess. > > That's what I think about him as well. I'd never count him as one of my > favorite authors, but his imagination is fertile ground for all kinds of > derivative works, and I don't mean that in a bad way. i especially like any examination of what constitutes a human consciousness. i don't know why, but i'm endlessly fascinated with the artificial being who doesn't know that he's artificial. then throw some false memories into the equation, and i am so there. i mentioned this book offlist to someone recently, but it's sort of on topic now. has anyone read "the anthology of amnesia"? now *that's* what i'm talking about. http://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Book-Amnesia-Anthology-Writing/dp/0375706615/ref=sr_1_1/104-8458211-2127155?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176868284&sr=1-1 xo - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:01:06 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: by any other name... On 4/17/07, Michael Sweeney wrote: > > Jason said: > > >Aren't all perverts also libertarians? There was some movie directed > >by Johnny Depp... > > Did you mean "The Libertine"? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0375920/) > But...of course, that's not the same thing (plus, he didn't direct it). > > ...Eh, it's all grist for some mill or another... We're milling through the grinder Grinding through the mill If this is not an exercise Could it be a... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:15:41 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: by any other name... On 4/17/07, Michael Sweeney wrote: > > Jason said: > > >Aren't all perverts also libertarians? There was some movie directed > >by Johnny Depp... > > Did you mean "The Libertine"? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0375920/) > But...of course, that's not the same thing (plus, he didn't direct it). The film he directed was "The Brave", about the dude who gets paid to be killed in a snuff film so he can provide for his family... I remember because it was sold to Jodie Foster's company by the guy who ran the USC Film School Stockroom shortly before he killed his entire family and went missing for a few days, during which time I worked the Longest. Graveyard Shift. EVAR! at the 24-hour post-production facility, with everyone thinking he was on his way back to take revenge on the dean. As I recall the film screened at a festival once and was roundly deemed unwatchable. Maybe Depp has directed something else since... I dunno. Anyways, the murders weren't done with guns, but when they found the guy he'd committed suicide, and probably not with an axe. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:30:35 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: by any other name... Rex says: > The film he directed was "The Brave", about the dude who gets paid to be > killed in a snuff film so he can provide for his family... > As I recall the film > screened at a festival once and was roundly deemed unwatchable. Has there ever been a movie with a plot involving a snuff film that was watchable? It seems like one of those inherently "bad idea" plotlines. xo p.s. do any of the old folks remember "bad idea"-brand jeans? - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:36:28 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Re: Guns <<>> <<"Correspondingly" suggests you're inferrring a causal relationship without presenting evidence to support the inference.>> er, so you just decided you'd cite it out of the blue? <1.) From 1976-2004 over half of the homicides occurred in cities with a population of 100,000 or more. Almost one-quarter of the homicides occurred in cities with a population of over 1 million.> is there a reason that you cite per-capita ownership rates but absolute homicide rates? (unless your argument is that *absolute* gun ownership in the country exceeds that in the cities -- which i'd find a tad difficult to believe.) <2.) Homicide Type by Race, 1976-2004 Victims Offenders White Black Other White Black Other All homicides 51.0% 46.9% 2.1% 45.9% 52.1% 2.0% ... Gun homicide 47.3% 50.8% 1.9% 42.0% 56.2% 1.7%> again, this is more less a non-sequitur if you don't adequately define your parameters. is *per capita* gun ownership higher among whites than blacks? if so, why didn't you cite a source? you're making it look like you're trying to hide something. < then for the love of god, DO NOT PAY YOUR TAXES. if you were drafted, would you comply with the draft orders? if not, then why participate in the "drafting" of your tax dollars to serve the very same end? , for more info (or contact me offlist). they're also opposed to the united states' military adventures. re robyn's best line: "i'm gonna burn your bongos..." is definitely on my short-list! "got a penthouse full of dwarves" is another especial favourite of mine that's not yet been mentioned. re most weekend digests: fuck it all, but i do believe that i've been stumped! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:57:17 EDT From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: robyn update On Tour April Robyn Hitchcock & The Venus 3 US Tour 12 Spaceland _Los Angeles, CA_ (http://www.clubspaceland.com/) 14 Club Congress _Tucson, AZ _ (http://www.hotelcongress.com/) May 10 Robyn with John Paul Jones Barbican "Syd Barrett Celebration" _London_ (http://www.barbican.org.uk/) 26 Robyn Hitchcock & Heavy Friends Queen Elizabeth Hall For it's 40th anniversary, they'll be recreating Pink Floyd's performance fo their "Games for May" concert _London_ (http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/visiting-us/finding-your-way-around/queen-elizabeth-hall) June Robyn Hitchcock & The Venus 3 European Tour 1 Racecourse "Wychwood Festival" _Cheltenham, UK _ (http://www.wychwoodfestival.com/) 2 Primavera Sound _Barcelona, Spain _ (http://www.primaverasound.com/index.php?idioma=en) 9 Ha! _Ghent, Belgium _ (http://www.handelsbeurs.be/concert.php?c=192) 10 Paradiso after Patti Smith in main hall _Amsterdam, Holland _ (http://www.paradiso.nl/index2.php) 11 Tivoli Helling _Utrecht, Holland _ (http://www.tivoli.nl/) 13 Debaser _Stockholm, Sweden _ (http://www.debaser.nu/) 14 Sticky Fingers _Gothenberg, Sweden _ (http://www.stickyfingers.nu/default.asp) 16 Norwegian Wood _Oslo, Norway _ (http://www.norwegianwood.no/) 17 TBC Finland _http://www.robynhitchcock.com/auditori.htm_ (http://www.robynhitchcock.com/auditori.htm) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:08:04 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: by any other name... - -- Jason Brown is rumored to have mumbled on 17. April 2007 15:01:11 -0700 regarding Re: by any other name...: > BTW I think Ben is misreading Heinlein's intent with Starship > Troopers. He doesn't agree with attitudes of the government in the > story and it is meant as a cautionary tale. If that's true he hid it damn well! It's been a while since I've read it, but it really made me consider banning books. My gut reaction was that its glorification of war was too dangerous for children. I'm not really advocating censorship, but that was my emotional response. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:42:25 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Fwd: NEW on DIME: Robyn Hitchcock & The Egyptians - Gaston Hall - May 17th, 1993 (NTSC DVD aud shot) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: www.dimeadozen.org DIME Date: Apr 17, 2007 7:54 PM Subject: NEW on DIME: Robyn Hitchcock & The Egyptians - Gaston Hall - May 17th, 1993 (NTSC DVD aud shot) To: Multiple recipients A new torrent has been uploaded to DIME. Torrent: 143269 Title: Robyn Hitchcock & The Egyptians - Gaston Hall - May 17th, 1993 (NTSC DVD aud shot) Size: 3.54 GB Category: Alternate Uploaded by: moonweed Description - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robyn Hitchcock & the Egyptians Gaston Hall Georgetown University Washington D.C. May 17, 1993 NTSC DVD 720 x 480 AUDIENCE SHOT VHS to DVD (authored by duckstab) unknown lineage (low generation) run time: 1:33:21 Audience shot show from the Respect tour.Enjoy. 1. Driving Aloud (Radio Storm) 2. Madonna of the Wasps 3. Railway Shoes 4. The Yip Song 5. Queen Elvis 6. Arms of Love 7. Airscape 8. When I Was Dead 9. Vegetation and Dimes 10. If You Were a Priest 11. A Globe of Frogs 12. The Moon Inside 13. Only the Stones Remain 14. Oceanside 15. Moussaka Song 16. Surgery 17. Wafflehead 18. The Wreck of the Arthur Lee 19. Egyptian Cream 20. Kung Fu Fighting video sample *audio in sample got distorted in google. actual sound on dvd is clear: artwork sample: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can use the URL below to download the torrent (you may have to login). http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=143269&hit=1 Take care! dimeadozen.org - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:43:25 +0930 From: great white shark Subject: Re: reap at virginia tech Found this here http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2007/04/17/ behind_the_virginia_tech_massacre.php which puts the issue into perspective methinks- from an australian perspective, after our own little massacre in port arthur ( actually worse than yours ) we banned semi automatics and since we have very few hand guns over here, nothing like it has happened since. I cannot imagine what it is like to go to school in the states and pass through metal detectors , I cannot comprehend that so many yanks stand up for your ' freedom" to bear arms , its a fucking blight on your international reputation if you ask me ..... amend your constitution folks - it sucks ! der commander Polling indicates that although a majority of Americans favor stricter gun control , they tend to blame such senseless massacres more on a poor family upbringing and the dark influence of popular culture than a lack of sensible gun laws. There's some truth to that, of course. The argument also will be made that regardless of the law, a lunatic or criminal can get hold of a gun. Yet take a look at a study released last fall by Johns Hopkins' Center for Gun Policy and Research. In 1999, a gun store in the Milwaukee area was found to be the leading seller of guns in America that later turned up in the hands of criminals. The shop cleaned up its act, observed the laws and there was a 44 percent decrease in new guns going to local bad guys. According to Daniel Webster, the study's lead author, Increased scrutiny of the few gun dealers linked to the most crime guns has the potential to significantly reduce the supply of new guns to criminals in many other U.S. cities. (According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, one percent of licensed dealers are responsible for more than half the guns recovered from criminals.) We have some 200 million, privately owned firearms in America, 65 million of which are handguns, the primary purpose of which is to threaten, hurt and kill people. Every year, there are 30,000 gun deaths and 300,000 gun-related assaults in this country. All of this violence costs America an estimated $100 billion a year. Toys are regulated with greater care and safety concerns. Over the next days and weeks and months, there will be much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments but what will be done? If the past is any guide, the majority who favor stricter control will in all likelihood be shouted down by the vitriol, and the electoral and lobbying money power, of the well-armed few. Oh well, we all too probably will say. Until the next time. And the time after that. Unless we make a noise. Now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:15:01 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: robyn update June Robyn Hitchcock & The Venus 3 European Tour 1 Racecourse "Wychwood Festival" Cheltenham, UK 2 Primavera Sound Barcelona, Spain 9 Ha! Ghent, Belgium 10 Paradiso after Patti Smith in main hall Amsterdam, Holland 11 Tivoli Helling Utrecht, Holland 13 Debaser Stockholm, Sweden 14 Sticky Fingers Gothenberg, Sweden 16 Norwegian Wood Oslo, Norway 17 TBC Finland Well, that settles it! Peter Buck may hate Tom Clark (all together now: fuck you, Tom Clark!), but Robyn hates me. Another tour of "Europe" and no show in Germany? Amsterdam is sold out (because of Patti Smith), and for the day they play Utrecht I have a ticket for Interpol (they play a *church* just about 200 m from my condo). That leaves Ghent. I'll have to see if I can make that work. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Am alten Stellwerk 22, 50733 Kvln, Germany http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:16:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: by any other name... On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > p.s. do any of the old folks remember "bad idea"-brand jeans? Of course--man, does 31 really count as "old" these days? :) This is the line that really stuck with me: 'Normally I wear protection, but then I thought, "When am I gonna make it back to Haiti?"' http://snltranscripts.jt.org/90/90abadidea.phtml ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: by any other name... On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > -- Jason Brown is rumored to have mumbled on 17. > April 2007 15:01:11 -0700 regarding Re: by any other name...: > > > BTW I think Ben is misreading Heinlein's intent with Starship > > Troopers. He doesn't agree with attitudes of the government in the > > story and it is meant as a cautionary tale. > > If that's true he hid it damn well! It's been a while since I've read > it, but it really made me consider banning books. My gut reaction was > that its glorification of war was too dangerous for children. I'm not > really advocating censorship, but that was my emotional response. I don't think Heinlein was glorifying war at all. Perhaps it reads different in German translation (assuming you read it in German)? Or maybe Germans are more sensitive to militarism nowadays? ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #157 ********************************