From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #126 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, March 29 2007 Volume 16 : Number 126 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Mats cover Robyn [Rex ] Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) [Steve Talkowski ] Re: matzo anyone? [djini@voicenet.com] Re: Apropos of Corn ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Apropos of Corn ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) [The Great Quail ] Re: Apropos of Corn [kevin ] Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) [Rex ] Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) [Tom Clark ] Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) [kevin ] Re: Name That Inappropriate Battlestar Galactica Tune [grutness@slingshot] My name is "Eb", and my mom used to beat me on my bareass with a white-hot curling iron -- but unbeknownst to her, I rather enjoyed it!!! [] re: apropos of corn [ken ostrander ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:39:40 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Mats cover Robyn One of the Replacements bootlegs here seems to have a live, doubtless drunken cover of "Sleeping Nights (sic) of Jesus" among other interesting possibilities. http://shortwaverockin.blogspot.com/ - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:37:45 -0400 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) Awesome. Hey Dom, what time did he start last night? Was there an opening act? I'm thinking of heading home first to drop off my laptop after work and wanted to know if he's really starting at 8pm sharp. Personally, I would love to hear Underground Sun and The Authority Box. He can also throw in Ole! Tarantula and I'd be a happy Steve. - -Steve p.s. In case anyone was wondering why i've been so quiet the past 3 weeks, this is what i've been working on (The French's commercial): http://www.guavanyc.com/rw.php# On Mar 28, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Dominic Cordisco wrote: > I caught last night's show. It was my first (for Robyn > Hitchcock). Apart > from the obvious comment that he was awesome, he played several > tracks from > Tarantula (Ole, A Man's Gotta Know, Belltown Ramble), and a mix of > older > songs as well (Jewels for Sophia, Soft Boys). He also noted that > he was > going to play different stuff tonight. For the encore, we were > treated both > See Emily Play and Eight Miles High. > > Enjoy. > > On 3/28/07, Steve Talkowski wrote: >> >> Anyone attend last night's show? I'm just catching up on a ton of >> list mail and was fortunate to be reminded of the two shows currently >> in NYC. I've got a ticket for tonight's show. I'm really looking >> forward to hearing Robyn with the Venus 3, as I missed them last time >> they were in town. >> >> Also, I forgot all about the 10pm screening of Sex, Food, Death ...& >> Insects last night (was watching the 2007 VES Awards on HDNET) but >> thankfully, it's airing again this Friday night and early Saturday >> morning: >> >> http://www.sundancechannel.com/films/500064014/ >> >> -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:48:04 -0400 From: "Dominic Cordisco" Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) He started about 9:30 - 45. Yes, there was an opening act, Johanna Kunin, who played a fender rhodes, and was accompanied on some songs by a guitarist. She described herself as yin to Robyn's yang. Pretty downbeat stuff. She started around 8:30. Not essential to catch her, but if you're there, it's not painful. Have fun. Dominic On 3/28/07, Steve Talkowski wrote: > > Awesome. > > Hey Dom, what time did he start last night? Was there an opening > act? I'm thinking of heading home first to drop off my laptop after > work and wanted to know if he's really starting at 8pm sharp. > > Personally, I would love to hear Underground Sun and The Authority > Box. He can also throw in Ole! Tarantula and I'd be a happy Steve. > > -Steve > > p.s. In case anyone was wondering why i've been so quiet the past 3 > weeks, this is what i've been working on (The French's commercial): > > http://www.guavanyc.com/rw.php# > > > On Mar 28, 2007, at 1:08 PM, Dominic Cordisco wrote: > > > I caught last night's show. It was my first (for Robyn > > Hitchcock). Apart > > from the obvious comment that he was awesome, he played several > > tracks from > > Tarantula (Ole, A Man's Gotta Know, Belltown Ramble), and a mix of > > older > > songs as well (Jewels for Sophia, Soft Boys). He also noted that > > he was > > going to play different stuff tonight. For the encore, we were > > treated both > > See Emily Play and Eight Miles High. > > > > Enjoy. > > > > On 3/28/07, Steve Talkowski wrote: > >> > >> Anyone attend last night's show? I'm just catching up on a ton of > >> list mail and was fortunate to be reminded of the two shows currently > >> in NYC. I've got a ticket for tonight's show. I'm really looking > >> forward to hearing Robyn with the Venus 3, as I missed them last time > >> they were in town. > >> > >> Also, I forgot all about the 10pm screening of Sex, Food, Death ...& > >> Insects last night (was watching the 2007 VES Awards on HDNET) but > >> thankfully, it's airing again this Friday night and early Saturday > >> morning: > >> > >> http://www.sundancechannel.com/films/500064014/ > >> > >> -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:10:35 -0400 From: "John Irvine" Subject: Annapolis Show Saw the RH show in Annapolis on Sunday. I have to say this is the most enjoyable touring band he's had in years (Soft Boys notwithstanding.) Buck gets all the jangly bits right, and Scott McCaughey and Robyn make a great vocal pair. Scott even chimes in on Robyn's monologues, something I don't recall other band members ever doing. Great song selection, though Robyn seems overly fond of Briggs these days. There were quite a few requests for "Taco Wagon", which Scott almost obliged. We did get a nice Arnold Lane though. The Rams Head club has really great sound as well. - -John http:/www.thejennifers.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:24:47 -0400 (EDT) From: djini@voicenet.com Subject: Re: matzo anyone? Lauren wrote: > http://www.boston.com/news/odd/articles/2007/03/26/ny_bus_converted_into_oven_for_matzos?mode=PF > - -or- > http://tinyurl.com/2fkckv > > "...the back door of the bus, formerly the emergency exit, was the > oven door." brilliant! > "they found an old school bus that had been converted into a supersized oven for Passover matzos" When I first scanned this, I thought it said "surprised oven." I bet it *was* surprised. Jeanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:25:37 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Apropos of Corn Rex says: > > Honestly, I'm too lazy to be an asshole. And anyway, wait long > > enough, and you'll see that the assholes don't really win anything > > anyway. > > > True, but everyone thinks they do, which also kinda bugs, although it most > likely shouldn't. I'm not really lazy, I just don't seem to be very > talented at stuff that's basic to most humans, like thinking money is great. > Alas and alack, I guess. I seem to remember your living in L.A. and also your job seems to be in the movie or television industry. So I imagine you're surrounded by a higher than average amount of ambitious people who also like money a lot (and no comments from the peanut gallery: it's not L.A.-bashing if it's true.) Actually, I knew a rather unambitious guy in L.A., but he was junkie. Also he lived in Venice so maybe it doesn't count. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:58:35 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) Steve Talkowski says: > p.s. In case anyone was wondering why i've been so quiet the past 3 > weeks, this is what i've been working on (The French's commercial): > > http://www.guavanyc.com/rw.php# Very nice. And as jars of mustard go, that one's quite sexy. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:02:26 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: Apropos of Corn On 3/28/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > I seem to remember your living in L.A. and also your job seems to be > in the movie or television industry. So I imagine you're surrounded > by a higher than average amount of ambitious people who also like > money a lot (and no comments from the peanut gallery: it's not > L.A.-bashing if it's true.) > > Actually, I knew a rather unambitious guy in L.A., but he was junkie. > Also he lived in Venice so maybe it doesn't count. Totally counts. No shortage of willful slackers in LA, that's for sure. News of the sold-out show got me edgy enough to go ahead and buy tickets for the Spaceland show. I'm pretty much assuming I'm the only active feglister going, but let me know if I'm wrong. Parking sucks around Spaceland so I'm walking. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:14:39 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Apropos of Corn Rex says: > News of the sold-out show got me edgy enough to go ahead and buy tickets for > the Spaceland show. Is it my imagination or has the show attendance been pretty high? It's been nice to see the turnouts at the last few shows I've attended - - Sellersville and Maxwells (first night, I think the second night had lower turn-out) in November and Philadelphia this past week. It seems the band shows are more popular than the solo shows of the past few years. My "date" would attribute it to Mr. Peter Buck, but then he's like that, you know. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:36:43 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) > He started about 9:30 - 45. Actually, he came on at 10:20 pm. > Yes, there was an opening act, Johanna Kunin, > who played a fender rhodes, and was accompanied on some songs by a > guitarist. She described herself as yin to Robyn's yang. Pretty downbeat > stuff. She started around 8:30. Not essential to catch her, but if you're > there, it's not painful. Man, that's exactly my feels on it, too.... - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:29:58 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) Eight Miles High. > O man, I'll never forget...my first RH show was at the Croc a couple years back, with Peter B. and Mike Mills and Bill Rieflin. Harvey Danger opened, and Sean came on with RH and sang harmonies through most of the show. Somewhere in there they did an Eight Miles High that completely kicked my ass. Rieflin was positively channeling Mike Clarke. It was worlds away from the acoustic version on the A&M Egyptians comp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:32:38 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) She described herself as yin to Robyn's yang. Actually I've always thought of RH as a pretty yin guy himself. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:36:58 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Annapolis Show Robyn seems overly fond of Briggs these >days. Pshaw, you can't be too fond of the Briggs. When the Tarantula first showed up I played Briggs and NY Doll over and over and over until the wife kindly asked me not to, though not in those words exactly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:39:59 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: Apropos of Corn My "date" would attribute it to Mr. Peter Buck, but then he's >like that, you know. Scott's not a bad draw either. Ever hear him do Hillbilly Drummer Girl? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:50:18 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) On 3/28/07, kevin wrote: > > Eight Miles High. > > > O man, I'll never forget...my first RH show was at the Croc a couple years > back, with Peter B. and Mike Mills and Bill Rieflin. Harvey Danger opened, > and Sean came on with RH and sang harmonies through most of the show. Sean's opening for RHV3 in LA, so we'll probably see some of that action out here. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:52:58 -0700 From: "Bri N" Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) >Eight Miles High. > >>O man, I'll never forget...my first RH show was at the Croc a couple years back, with Peter B. and Mike Mills and Bill Rieflin. Harvey Danger opened, and Sean came on with RH and sang harmonies through most of the show. Somewhere in there they did an Eight Miles High that completely kicked my ass. Rieflin was positively channeling Mike Clarke. It was worlds away from the acoustic version on the A&M Egyptians comp. - ---------------- I'd like to hear that. Bill's a damn good drummer. I feel bad for a bit of the bashing he got back in Nov. Poor guy has to set up and take down his own drums while the others are out signing things for the fans. I've really been enjoying Sex, Food, Death and Tarantuals EP, more than I thought I would actually. Why do I like Sometimes A Blonde so much? Afterlight has been stuck in my head for 2 days now. link of the day. Our Rev has a (evil?) twin: http://www.christopher-hintz.de/start_3.htm - -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:59:22 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: Apropos of Corn On 3/28/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > It seems > the band shows are more popular than the solo shows of the past few > years. My "date" would attribute it to Mr. Peter Buck, but then he's > like that, you know. The album is more popular, too. I kinda wonder about those poor, poor R.E.M. fans who like to follow everything the band members do, but just don't get Robyn. Statistically, there have to be a few of those, right? They must dread these tours like I do CSNY reunions. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:04:37 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) On Mar 28, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Bri N wrote: > link of the day. Our Rev has a (evil?) twin: > http://www.christopher-hintz.de/start_3.htm goatee == evil - -tc, off to AZ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:06:23 -0400 (EDT) From: kevin Subject: Re: Robyn at Knitting Factory Tonight (Wed) Bill's a damn good drummer. I feel bad for a bit of the bashing he got back in Nov. Rieflin-bashing? Unacceptable. I've been hearing the guy since the Blackouts back in the Eighties (now that was a scary, badass band) and have never heard anything to complain about. And Al Jourgenson can stuff the snippy remarks he made when Bill R. left Ministry. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:41:34 -0400 (EDT) From: djini@voicenet.com Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #124 Max wrote: >> >>Somefeg should post pictures, no? >> > I am not sure if someone took some. I took exactly one picture, in which you can't see either Lauren or Max's face. Turns out Lauren is very camera-shy. I won't take pictures during a show because I hate the flashes and I'm sure some of the performers do too. I was at a show at a small venue in Philly where Neil Finn stopped a song and threatened to walk off the stage if another flash went off. Jeanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:27:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Name That Inappropriate Battlestar Galactica Tune kevin wrote: >> np: Billy Idol, "Eyes Without a Face" - for all his shallowness >> and inauthenticity, he had some great singles, didn't he? > > Did BillyI come out of the Bromley Contingent? No agenda, just > wondering if anybody knows... Yes. "Children have always enjoyed my movies. They are just not allowed to watch many of them." -- John Waters . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:41:51 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Apropos of Corn On 3/28/07, kevin wrote: > > My "date" would attribute it to Mr. Peter Buck, but then he's > >like that, you know. > > Scott's not a bad draw either. > And Robyn draws quite well. I like his cartoons. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 13:12:39 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: Name That Inappropriate Battlestar Galactica Tune >From: kevin > >>np: Billy Idol, "Eyes Without a Face" - for all his shallowness and >>inauthenticity, he had some great singles, didn't he? > >Did BillyI come out of the Bromley Contingent? No agenda, just >wondering if anybody knows... My sweetie didn't know (which surprised me - she did manage to rattle off the names of over half a dozen of the Bromley Contingent, though). Wikipedia, however, says "yes" , FWIW. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:30:03 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: My name is "Eb", and my mom used to beat me on my bareass with a white-hot curling iron -- but unbeknownst to her, I rather enjoyed it!!! and springsteen still wins mine; though archie bronson outfit probably rises two notches to second position. and, yeah, decemberists = major mover. anybody else think that *Crane Wife* feels like a companion to *Aeroplane Over The Sea*? or, here's the other thing i've been thinking lately: as *Pet Sounds* (which i can't stand, but, whatever) was a response to *Rubber Soul*, and *Sgt. Pepper* a response to *Pet Sounds*; perhaps *The Crane Wife* was a response to *Twin Cinema*, and now the new pornographers must take up the gauntlet threwn down by *The Crane Wife*. dack is of help with regards to business lingo as well. . i've never worked in an office, so it doesn't "ring true" for me -- but it's damned funny, all the same. as a *Goodfellas* junkie, i'm ashamed to say that i can't place that line. which scene is it from? well, if all else fails, you could shine it up real pretty, turn it sideways, and stick it up your candy ass. (might sound physiologically impossible, but eb assures me that it can be done.) that's an early contender for laugh-out-loud-est line of the year. (although it also itches one of my pet peeves: should be "Popeye*'s* and Yahweh's".) an MTV artist-"jingle"? did MTV ever feature such a thing? read a pretty interesting/scary book last year entitled *Lethal Arrogance: Human Fallibility And Dangerous Technologies*. can't recall the author's name; but it's all about how the dangerous systems we've put into place (most especially nuclear weapons) will inevitably -- because they're human-created and human-maintained -- seriously fuck us up. since reading it, i'm always noticing small examples of human fallibility just committed by myself. for just one example: setting the alarm clock, but forgetting to activate it. we've all set the alarm a million times; but even so, we sometimes forget to activate it. i'd never noticed, before reading the book, how pervasive it is (though it's usually, of course, inconsequential). i'm sure they *don't* draw the line -- except in public. i mean, if lawrence summers will write that the "economic logic" behind dumping "a load of toxic waste" in third-world countries is "impeccable", why wouldn't he say the same of the "economic logic" of whoring out one's daughters? nobody really comes out and says, in public, that they think it's great to dump toxic waste or sell weapons -- they just do it, and hope that nobody notices, or that the consequences won't be too bad if somebody does notice. hell, even rumsfeld was always bitching about the uptick in chinese military spending, and saying he "couldn't imagine" why venezuela needed to buy a bunch of military gear from the russians. . i would argue that he was *early*-industrial and -capitalist. he also railed against the dehumanising effects of factory-work. he thought that the problems could be overcome; but if he'd been writing in the late-nineteenth rather than the late-eighteenth century, it seems pretty obvious to me that he'd have been making very similar arguments to marx's. interesting! seems like it should be fairly easy, then, for some pissed-off auteur to leak his or her original "vision" to the internet, no? or has this already been happening, and i've simply missed it? and speaking of leaks: not that i'm complaining, but, how difficult could it actually be to trace them back to the source? are there really so many people that have access to the material that it's impossible to figure out who did it? the world'd be a lot better off if it were the case. i've yet to read a satisfactory explanation for *why* we started civilisation, given that it's resulted in more toil, more hardship, less leisure, lower life-expectancy. but i'd recommend a quite fascinating and very readable overview of the process by which it happened: *Savages And Civilization*, by jack weatherford. KEN "Hear all the bombs fade away" THE KENSTER ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:12:00 -0700 (PDT) From: ken ostrander Subject: re: apropos of corn > the laws of thermodynamics are such that not only > can we not ever increase the amount of energy, but every process will > decrease the amount of available energy.< hmmm...my universe is infinite. >Ambitious people are just so damn spunky.< like two rams butting heads. they deserve each other. ambitious folk never seem all that happy or satisfied. i think it's best to stay out of their way, like the jackasses (like i used to be) who scream in and out of traffic to get there five minutes quicker. > Honestly, I'm too lazy to be an asshole. And anyway, wait long enough, and you'll see that the assholes don't really win anything anyway. < the karma runs over the dogma. i think we're all divine assholes; that's why when someone cuts me off or otherwise irks me i say "namaste...asshole". or at least that's what we used to do. now we like to just be thankful that we didn't die. >>We should really face it... nobody really knows how to do anything very >>well, or else stuff wouldn't go so terribly wrong all the time.< > >Sometimes when I look at really complicated systems and the level of >actual understanding in their day-to-day maintenance and operations, I'm >impressed that they run at all, however badly.< i'm reminded of the enron-style web of subsidiaries and dummy companies that is typically utilized to create an appearance of strength as much as to hide the wrongdoing. the more complex a system is, the more suspicious i become. >Nobody ever writes, talks or >reads about the failure of a company or idea that never got off the ground >to begin with or failed for its entire lifespan and was dreamt up by someone >we've never heard of, because... why or how could they? < actually, in business schools the case study is their bread and butter. >> I really have no idea where people get these crazy ideas that a) private enterprise is efficient with resources, b) efficiency is a benefit in and of itself, and c) public projects are less productive than their private counterparts. I suppose if your definition of productivity means creating a revenue stream for the moneyed few, then you win. But any other definition and you've got a pretty hard debate to win. << people want to believe. they want to get their piece of "the american dream", which is essentially (for most people) having enough material resources to not have to work; ie. become part of the moneyed few as be as wasteful as possible. as rex mentioned, there is a lot of money in the private sector that goes toward crafting an image. the fact that there is less public scrutiny of private corporate personhoods than there is of public projects ties into that as well. the whole privatization scam still seems to have play with people. i guess when you have a successful businessperson who has made a profit with different projects, then you tend to wonder why a public project is floundering. then again, a lot of folks probably can't follow what's going on in a film like 'wallstreet'. >> I hold that ANY large organization--commercial, religious, governmental, >> whatever--is liable to be inefficient. Commercial organizations may not >> be better than governments (though I think in many cases they are), but >> I wouldn't say the reverse is always true, either. > >For my own experience, a moneyed interest corporation doesn't have to get >very big before the internals become self-serving and only minimally >concerned with external productivity. I've certainly been in more >focussed and productive community organizations with as many people as >some of the less conscientious corporations that have employeed me.< there are a lot of community groups that are stymied by infighting and posturing. and the same is certainly true of public works. the thing that works for a private corporation is that they can act quickly if they deem it in their interest. groups that value consensus take a lot longer to make decisions. but any group of people is only as efficient as the people in it. any organized structure can be brought down by bureaucracy. sometimes individuals will embrace the bottleneck position because it makes them feel powerful or needed or secure in their job. > >> I still don't believe that > >> efficiency is a particularly worthwhile property for a thing to possess, > >> leastwise pursue. > > Seems like a self-defeating notion. Inefficient organisms (of whatever > stripe) ultimately don't survive. The sabre-toothed tiger comes to mind... art and religion aside, the idea of efficient assumes that there is some standard that everyone agrees upon. social darwinism dilutes any sense of strength. is it lawyers, guns, and money that make us strong? is it our opposable thumb? maybe the bomb? how efficient is it for humans to race so efficiently toward our own destruction? >> Another amusing thing is that these arguments tend to boil down to *where* >> one draws lines concerning motives other than profit. Almost no one will >> argue that if there's a viable market for it, you should whore out your >> daughters. Somehow, though, it's okay to sell loads of weapons - or >> willfully evade regulations on toxic waste & poison entire communities. > >Personally, I think the difference is only in how soon your actions >bite you in the ass. If people could see the consequence of some of >their actions as soon as they can see they consequence of e.g. whoring >out a daughter, they would likely deal with e.g. toxic waste in as >ethical a way as they could.< a lot of these big environmental pollution cases are still being drawn out and the communities are still hurting. of course, the money doesn't fix the problems. and the folks in the board rooms don't tend to get exposed to the toxic messes they create. we're all whores in one way or another. who're these willful slackers who do not compromise their principles for personal gain? >>>"I bet you're in middle-management, aren't you?"<<< them's fightin' words. unless you're a fourierist, then you would just explain how much you enjoy your satisfying and stimulating work. then have a glass of oceanic lemonade. >> I guess it was ultimately funny, because the woman he was trying to impress later told me that she wrote the whole scene into a spec script for "Sex in (and?) the City". <<< is that the one where carrie dates the communist? oh wait, that's seinfeld. ken "when you're an egoist, none of the harm you do is intentional" the kenster np 'reformation post-t.l.c.' the fall - --------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #126 ********************************