From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #99 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, March 14 2007 Volume 16 : Number 099 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Band Names ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting ["michael wells" ] Re: movie talk [Rex ] Re: movie talk [michaeljbachman@comcast.net] Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting [2fs ] Re: movie talk [2fs ] in math news... [2fs ] RE: Long and probably unnecessary posting ["Marc Alberts" ] Re: movie talk [michaeljbachman@comcast.net] Re: Band Names [craigie* ] Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting [craigie* ] Re: Band Names ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Band Names [craigie* ] I saw that on the radio... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: in math news... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] synchronicity? [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: strange messages and Beatles [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] My name is "The Allman Brothers" and I'm trying to figure out what a doobie is ["Michael Sweeney" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:33:00 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Band Names FSThomas wrote: > >> Half Man Half Biscuit - four stars. > > Bonus points for being remotely interesting musically. Wha?! HMHB are true genius. Nigel Blackwell may be one of England's greater wits. It's very unlikely that you'd understand the allure of the band unless you're from the UK. Everything about them is a colossal in-joke about obscure pop culture. Stewart (God gave us life, God gave us life, God gave us life, So that we could take sweets From strange men in big cars And get driven to the woods to stroke, Non-existent puppies.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:33:24 -0700 From: "michael wells" Subject: Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting Mr. Godwin: > Great argument, Jeffrey! If I hadnt been there at the time, I would have been convinced! Amazing how the old yes, but I was there argument still holds water. Headline: Man blows himself up in Casablanca Internet cafi. In related news, the proprietor  a man known only as Rick  has not been seen since. Last Sunday we tried a new contemporary churc; rock band, video screens, great kids program, the works. Playing before the service on the big screen was an episode of The Office. The message for the next few weeks is  as far as I can tell  why God thinks sex is a great thing. Im not making this up. I think Im going to like that place. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:53:20 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: movie talk Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > "sorry, captain. it was...set..to...maximum kill." Cue ancient Eddie Izzard sketch ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:09:13 -0700 From: Rex Subject: Re: movie talk On 3/12/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > ken ostrander says: > > yeah, set phasers on stun...oops...wrong setting. > > it kinda seems like the switches should have been labelled better. > > "sorry, captain. it was...set..to...maximum kill." Hey, there... no kill I! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:10:33 +0000 From: michaeljbachman@comcast.net Subject: Re: movie talk - -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Lauren Elizabeth" > ken ostrander says: > > yeah, set phasers on stun...oops...wrong setting. Lauren wrote: > it kinda seems like the switches should have been labelled better. > > "sorry, captain. it was...set..to...maximum kill." > Swiches, kill? That sets of bells ringing. One of my favorite X-Files episodes: Kill Switch. http://redwolf.com.au/xfiles/season05/5x11.html MJ Bachman Off to finish viewing the X-Files epsisode Paper Clip. The last part of the three part Anazazi-The Blessing Way-Paper Clip story arc with the MJ files and where Mulder's dad and Scully's sister are killed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:06:09 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting On 3/11/07, hssmrg@bath.ac.uk wrote: > > > sounds. If anything, the Beatles arguably *saved* rock'n'roll - by > introducing the still-common archetype of a self-contained band that > wrote and performed (and later, arranged) its own material and output - > even including having a huge hand in the album art. Name a rock group > of that type before the Beatles. There really weren't any. > > * Buddy Holly and the Crickets. True enough - and of course, a massive influence on the Beatles. However, Holly's premature death, and dubious business dealings by his manager, prevented his music and approach from being as popular and influential as it might have been: in fact, arguably the Beatles were a key component in reviving memory of Holly, through their covers. And of course, when McCartney bought Holly's catalog, Holly's family was finally paid what they were due. Nothing to do with rock'n'roll as such - but I guess the point is, in many ways, Holly and the Crickets were still a part of the old-school manager/peon relationship (against their will, as was often the case). I wonder, if Holly hadn't been killed, how his music would have developed, and what kind of influence he would have had? That's a major tragedy, true. > Finally: even if the Beatles were solely responsible for watering down > The Rock, and introducing limp-wristed violins and shit into the music > (oh puh-lease...name a pre-1962 rocker who didn't strive for mainstream > success, including movie music, etc.), and even if someone else > wouldn't have come along and done the same thing, why does the Beatles > having done so prevent *other* bands from doing the rock'n'roll thing > themselves? Or is there no rock at all after 1962? Everyone was so > utterly hypnotized by the Beatles (even, of course, those who hated > them) that they could no longer figure out how to rock? The whole thing > is a lame, shallow, ex-post-facto argument that's built primarily on > not liking a very influential band (and its influence) - but as an > argument, it's about as flimsy as they come. > > * Great argument, Jeffrey! If I hadnt been there at the time, I would > have been convinced! Ha!. It is true that the Beatles, from the beginning, weren't willing to be ghettoized as a mere rock'n'roll act--and that they clearly had tastes that embraced stuff that nowadays we might consider tacky indeed (Yes, Paul, I'm looking at you, with your covers of showtunes like "Till There Was You"...). But my real argument is that this development - rock moving beyond its American, R&B roots - was almost certainly going to happen in any event. [quote]* Well, I was there (1962-65) listening to the recently-deceased Eddie Cochran and the still active Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent and Little Richard. I was very worried about the effect of The Beatles at that time. Our asthmatic boarding school split into Rockers like me Chris Lloyd and Mark Redgrave who liked real rocknroll, and Mods who liked ska, blue beat and Merseybeat records. Of course in the end I succumbed; but I always preferred The Animals (from Newcastle) and The Hollies (from Manchester) to the overrated Merseybeat groups. And of course I liked London groups like The Kinks and The Rolling Stones. But The Who were always too Mod for me (though I have seen them perform some excellent gigs). [endquote] Well, Cochran obviously was unable to do anything more, Berry's music became increasingly indifferent (even though he still made some good records - I'm pretty fond of his work with Bo Diddley), Vincent kinda faded away (though i'm not that familiar with his career), and Little Richard found Jebus. But even the more contemporary groups you mention (contemporary with the Beatles) moved away from "real rock'n'roll" - most certainly the Kinks and the Hollies. Would they have done that without the Beatles' influence? It's hard to imagine Ray Davies, for instance, not pursuing his idiosyncratic (and really not all that Beatle-y, except in the abstrct) path. I dunno: it makes more sense to me if people would just say, sorry, very few Beatles songs do much for me, than try to build up some huge architecture about how they ruined rock (and that's why, presumably, someone might not like them). (ps: I wasn't there, though. I was here.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:07:40 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: movie talk On 3/12/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > > ken "look to the cookie" the kenster > > the cookie, indeed. it is black on one side and white on the other. > > although if you rotate it, it is white on one side and black on the other. First there is a mountain. Then there is no mountain. Then there is. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:09:13 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: in math news... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:24:39 -0700 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: Long and probably unnecessary posting Jeff wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On > Behalf Of 2fs > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:06 PM > To: Not Reg > Subject: Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting > > On 3/11/07, hssmrg@bath.ac.uk wrote: > > > > > > sounds. If anything, the Beatles arguably *saved* rock'n'roll - by > > introducing the still-common archetype of a self-contained band that > > wrote and performed (and later, arranged) its own material and output > - > > even including having a huge hand in the album art. Name a rock group > > of that type before the Beatles. There really weren't any. > > > > * Buddy Holly and the Crickets. > > > > True enough - and of course, a massive influence on the Beatles. > However, > Holly's premature death, and dubious business dealings by his manager, > prevented his music and approach from being as popular and influential > as it > might have been: in fact, arguably the Beatles were a key component in > reviving memory of Holly, through their covers. I think that's a bit of a particular North American take on the history, Jeff. Right before he died, Holly toured the UK and since this was in the days before rock bands routinely toured the UK he achieved almost iconic status in England that was only cemented by his death. It was not that the Beatles were a key to reviving Holly's memory, but rather that Holly was key in getting bands like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones started in the first place. In the US maybe Holly's memory had faded, but certainly not in the UK a that time. It could easily be argued that while Holly was big in the US, he was far bigger in the UK at that time. > And of course, when > McCartney bought Holly's catalog, Holly's family was finally paid what > they > were due. Nothing to do with rock'n'roll as such - but I guess the > point is, > in many ways, Holly and the Crickets were still a part of the old- > school > manager/peon relationship (against their will, as was often the case). > I > wonder, if Holly hadn't been killed, how his music would have > developed, and > what kind of influence he would have had? That's a major tragedy, true. Well, Holly was a major influence on virtually the entire British Invasion sound so it's hard to say that his influence was small. When he died he was doing a lot of things that later because staple Beatles sound-room tricks like double tracked vocals. I'm not sure about the "manager/peon" relationship since Holly wrote his own songs and went to Clovis in part because it was a non-union shop where they could spend as much time in the studio as they wanted to get the sound they wanted. In that sense, they weren't any more in an inferior relationship than The Beatles were later. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:51:34 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting On 3/13/07, Marc Alberts wrote: > > > like double tracked vocals. I'm not sure about the "manager/peon" > relationship since Holly wrote his own songs and went to Clovis in part > because it was a non-union shop where they could spend as much time in the > studio as they wanted to get the sound they wanted. In that sense, they > weren't any more in an inferior relationship than The Beatles were later. I'm referring to Norman Petty's sometimes dubious attempts at claiming authorship of the songs... Really, this is mostly from the AMG bio. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:00:12 +0000 From: michaeljbachman@comcast.net Subject: Re: movie talk - -------------- Original message -------------- From: 2fs > On 3/12/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > > > > > ken "look to the cookie" the kenster > > > > the cookie, indeed. it is black on one side and white on the other. > > > > although if you rotate it, it is white on one side and black on the other. > Jeff: > First there is a mountain. Then there is no mountain. Then there is. Then there is The Allman Brothers "Mountain Jam" from Eat A Peach. The ABB band of 1971 was far above any other rock band of the times ability to jam successfully for extended periods and tie non-rock idioms into their jams. You really have to look at the jazz world to find a band that was equally as skilled at extended solos by it's members who could then transition back to the original song theme. MJ Bachman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:49:12 +0000 From: craigie* Subject: Re: Band Names Didn't they write the classic (and I don't use the wrod lightly) "Where's Me Jumper?" ? ah, they don't write them like that anymore... c* On 13/03/07, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > FSThomas wrote: > > > >> Half Man Half Biscuit - four stars. > > > > Bonus points for being remotely interesting musically. > > Wha?! HMHB are true genius. Nigel Blackwell may be one of England's > greater wits. > > It's very unlikely that you'd understand the allure of the band unless > you're from the UK. Everything about them is a colossal in-joke about > obscure pop culture. > > Stewart > (God gave us life, > God gave us life, > God gave us life, > So that we could take sweets > From strange men in big cars > And get driven to the woods to stroke, > Non-existent puppies.) > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:14:55 +0000 From: craigie* Subject: Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting in related news - if any needs a good background of Buddy Holly, I have a 9LP set recently transferred to CD which comprises just about everything officially released. Apart from 8 songs on the Reminiscing LP for which rights could not be obtained. I got it for my 14th birthday... after hearing about him on The Beatles Story radio shows (which I also have on CD or FLAC if anyone needs 'em...) eesh. this isn't meant to sound like a "look what I got" fest. It's just that I like to share... c* On 13/03/07, Marc Alberts wrote: > > Jeff wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org [mailto:owner-fegmaniax@smoe.org] On > > Behalf Of 2fs > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:06 PM > > To: Not Reg > > Subject: Re: Long and probably unnecessary posting > > > > On 3/11/07, hssmrg@bath.ac.uk wrote: > > > > > > > > > sounds. If anything, the Beatles arguably *saved* rock'n'roll - by > > > introducing the still-common archetype of a self-contained band that > > > wrote and performed (and later, arranged) its own material and output > > - > > > even including having a huge hand in the album art. Name a rock group > > > of that type before the Beatles. There really weren't any. > > > > > > * Buddy Holly and the Crickets. > > > > > > > > True enough - and of course, a massive influence on the Beatles. > > However, > > Holly's premature death, and dubious business dealings by his manager, > > prevented his music and approach from being as popular and influential > > as it > > might have been: in fact, arguably the Beatles were a key component in > > reviving memory of Holly, through their covers. > > I think that's a bit of a particular North American take on the history, > Jeff. Right before he died, Holly toured the UK and since this was in the > days before rock bands routinely toured the UK he achieved almost iconic > status in England that was only cemented by his death. It was not that > the > Beatles were a key to reviving Holly's memory, but rather that Holly was > key > in getting bands like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones started in the > first place. In the US maybe Holly's memory had faded, but certainly not > in > the UK a that time. It could easily be argued that while Holly was big in > the US, he was far bigger in the UK at that time. > > > > And of course, when > > McCartney bought Holly's catalog, Holly's family was finally paid what > > they > > were due. Nothing to do with rock'n'roll as such - but I guess the > > point is, > > in many ways, Holly and the Crickets were still a part of the old- > > school > > manager/peon relationship (against their will, as was often the case). > > I > > wonder, if Holly hadn't been killed, how his music would have > > developed, and > > what kind of influence he would have had? That's a major tragedy, true. > > Well, Holly was a major influence on virtually the entire British Invasion > sound so it's hard to say that his influence was small. When he died he > was > doing a lot of things that later because staple Beatles sound-room tricks > like double tracked vocals. I'm not sure about the "manager/peon" > relationship since Holly wrote his own songs and went to Clovis in part > because it was a non-union shop where they could spend as much time in the > studio as they wanted to get the sound they wanted. In that sense, they > weren't any more in an inferior relationship than The Beatles were later. > > Marc > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:32:45 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Band Names craigie* wrote: > Didn't they write the classic (and I don't use the wrod lightly) > "Where's Me Jumper?" ? I think that was Ireland's own Sultans of Ping FC. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:50:00 +0000 From: craigie* Subject: Re: Band Names ah, c'est ca. never had a head for figures... c* On 13/03/07, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > craigie* wrote: > > Didn't they write the classic (and I don't use the wrod lightly) > > "Where's Me Jumper?" ? > > I think that was Ireland's own Sultans of Ping FC. > > Stewart > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:36:52 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: I saw that on the radio... Hi Fegs, I know you'd like to think that my subscription to Rolling Stone is good for nothing, but occasionally it does bring some news. I read in the current issue that my one of my beloved radio programs is making the leap to television: http://www.sho.com/site/announcements/060120amlife.do I am of the mind that really good radio shows are in part good because they are *radio* shows and "This American Life" falls into that category. Ugh. I hope Mr. Glass isn't quoted anywhere using the phrase "the next level". I hope Click and Clack hold out. xo P.S. Random: why does gmail's spellcheck allow me to spell strategy so very many ways? - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:41:24 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: in math news... 2fs says: > Yay, math news. Every time I catch a scene from "Good Will Hunting" on TBS (is that the channel that shows it all the time?) and am thoroughly annoyed by smarty-pants taking a break from his janitorial duties to solve open math problems on the hallway blackboard, the thought of the great mathematician Ramanujan throws at least a dash of realism into the matter. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:21:25 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: synchronicity? BTW - I've just noticed that we seem to have started two independent threads on All in the Family and The Princess Bride (the latter of which is Reiner/Lear Production). As to AITF being hard hitting for its time, yes, but not nearly as much so as the series it was based on ("Til death us do part"). I always found AITF funnier, though. Alf Garnett was just too scathing for my taste. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:13:52 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: strange messages and Beatles >What boot is this on? >I have so many of them (alledgedly) that it is difficult to recall >if I have it. > >Mike > > >On 3/12/07, David Stovall wrote: > > >From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz > > >>White Album crushes all other Beatles albums. Even without > > >>"Revolution #9" which still creeps me the hell out. > > > > > >There is a boot bersion of R9 which is intiguing since you can > > hear > > >quite a bit more of what's actually going on in there. Well > > worth > > >tracking down. > > > > And, SPOILER ALERT: I've got the "Cranberry sauce" stuff on "Backtrack III". The alt. mix of Revolution no. 9 I mentioned is on "Revolution" (Vigotone V-117). James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 00:28:50 +0000 From: "Michael Sweeney" Subject: My name is "The Allman Brothers" and I'm trying to figure out what a doobie is Eddie wrote: >i've been informally keeping track for a while; and to my knowledge, last >month was the first month in which at least one digest appeared on every >day of the month. i didn't wanna say anything at the time, for fear of >influencing the outcome -- but i guess it's okay now... I'm with you on that -- I wanted to see the series continue, too, without actually acting on the outcome. A whole Schroedinger's cat sorta thing, I guess...(well, no actual kitties being harmed in the production of the list...I just meant "the act of observing disturbs the observed" part)... ...But there hadn't been a digest yet today (7:18 PM, CDST), so...am I sending this to try and help trigger a digest today and keep March (and, therefore, the two-month consecutive) string going? Meow -- the cat lives...now to wait and see if March continues... Michael "Not a scientist at all, so it's entirely likely I screwed up relating the theory" Sweeney _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 01:08:40 -0400 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Possibly old news... Hi Fegs, This is a sort of old link so it might be old news, but I was reminded of it from the recent "All in the Family" talk as when I played the game (link below) before I pretended to be Archie Bunker (I don't know, when someone says "sitcom character", I think "Archie Bunker.") The computer won that one. Then I pretended to be Nina Van Horn from "Just Shoot Me!" - a very underappreciated sitcom character IMO - and apparently she was not in the database. What a travesty. But for all those who want to pretend to be her, she's there now. But you all probably want to pretend to be dictators anyway ;) Guess the Dictator and/or Television Sit-Com Character: http://www.smalltime.com/dictator.html xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #99 *******************************