From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #96 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, March 11 2007 Volume 16 : Number 096 Today's Subjects: ----------------- In Green Tea News To-day... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #95 [djini@voicenet.com] Philly show [djini@voicenet.com] Did we already go over this? ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] RE: Philly show ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: Philly show ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: daddy's in charge of the oyster party [ken ostrander ] re: beatles (s# c # a# r) [ken ostrander ] Re: beatles (s# c # a# r) ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: In Green Tea News To-day... [michaeljbachman@comcast.net] Re: movie talk [Steve Schiavo ] Last Week's Puzzler... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: movie talk [2fs ] Re: In Green Tea News To-day... [2fs ] Re: movie talk ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Last Week's Puzzler... [2fs ] Re: Last Week's Puzzler... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Long and probably unnecessary posting [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:59:39 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: In Green Tea News To-day... Hi Fegs, Okay, for reasons we won't go into, suffice it to say that the frozen mochi balls are all yours. Thankfully my local Trader Joe's has great new green tea yogurt (second item down): http://www.traderjoes.com/whats_new_result.asp?RegionID=6&submit=Show+Me+The+Goods%21 It's a bit pricey but it'll definitely do until they restock that green tea gelatto. I got the chocolate also but thought that was a bit odd. But it's the kind of odd that some people might find odd "in a good way." xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:12:21 -0500 (EST) From: djini@voicenet.com Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #95 "Lauren Elizabeth" wrote: > P.S. Still have an unopened "The Princess Bride" that a friend gave > me. Is it recommended viewing? Well, if anyone has ever quoted "My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die" at you and you've wondered why, watching the movie would explain it. Also, you've got Cary Elwes at pretty much the peak of his physical beauty, Mandy Patinkin when he was agile and dreamy, and Chris Sarandon looking skeevy yet rather tasty, all in various forms of full camp-medieval drag. Apologies to the male fegs for the girly rhapsodizing, I love the movie for many other reasons too - but there's nothing like eye-candy to get the DVD in the player. Oh, and Peter Cook is in it too! That should be reason enough. Jeanne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:30:31 -0500 (EST) From: djini@voicenet.com Subject: Philly show A plan, a plan. So, Michael plus 2, Max plus 1, Lauren plus 1, me plus 1 - that's a crew. The show starts at 7:30, and since it's a workday there isn't a lot of time for futzing around with restaurants, especially since the World Cafe isn't in easy walking distance of much. If anyone wants to eat there, that'd be cool with me - I seem to recall acceptable barfood. Or we could just plan to meet up at the bar upstairs before the show, or some combination of that... Anyone else want to weigh in? Jeanne P.S. I see that my message from Monday turned up in the Saturday digest, right after Lauren kindly forwarded it. I wonder when this one will go through? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:34:18 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Did we already go over this? http://www.flatlandthemovie.com/ One of the best books ever! Personal note: between my inability to proof-read anything I type, great skill of screening out useless and important information alike, and late-night brain-drained posts, I occasionally go to the list in the morning and think: geez, I kind of wish I could say I was drunk when I made that post. Alas. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:42:58 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: RE: Philly show >From: djini@voicenet.com >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: Philly show >Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:30:31 -0500 (EST) >A plan, a plan. So, Michael plus 2, Max plus 1, Lauren plus 1, me plus 1 - >that's a >crew. The show starts at 7:30, and since it's a workday there isn't a lot >of time for >futzing around with restaurants, especially since the World Cafe isn't in >easy walking >distance of much. If anyone wants to eat there, that'd be cool with me - I >seem to >recall acceptable barfood. Or we could just plan to meet up at the bar >upstairs before >the show, or some combination of that... Anyone else want to weigh in? I was there (WCL) on Thursday for Dean and Britta, shows there start more or less as scheduled...way too early. I ate dinner with a friend at Bubble House, which was just okay. The White Dog cafe is about three blocks from World Cafe and has a pretty good rep. I only ate at World Cafe once and found it lacking, that was a long time ago though. Is anyone coming from out of town for the Philly show? And that's Max plus three! Max _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:10:38 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Philly show Maximilian Lang says: > I was there (WCL) on Thursday for Dean and Britta, shows there start more or > less as scheduled...way too early. I ate dinner with a friend at Bubble > House, which was just okay. The White Dog cafe is about three blocks from > World Cafe and has a pretty good rep. I only ate at World Cafe once and > found it lacking, that was a long time ago though. Is anyone coming from > out of town for the Philly show? Michael Sweeney is coming from out of town. I have no preference so whatever you guys want is fine. I've been to The White Dog Cafe and have liked it. It was crowded the few times I was there, but I might have only been there on weekends. "Bubble House" sounds like a toy store. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:03:13 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: Re: daddy's in charge of the oyster party remember when elaine started a bakery that only served the tops of muffins? well, my daughter ate everything but the top of her birthday cupcake today. we had kids from two to sixty two at our house and everyone got along just fine. i filled up shuggie's new groovy girls sassy tent with balloons and cranked up the wee hairy beasties. >> what does/did robyn do on his birthday? > >On his 40th he opened for the Barenaked Ladies in Buffalo, NY.< opened what? his bathrobe? and danced by the light of the moon with those buffalo gals? > what is the record for most digests in one day? looking at the most recent year plus on the archives, the recent five is the most. with the only instance of four coming in late february. ken "i don't want to be stepped on or kicked in the face or crushed or bruised or lacerated or scarred or biffed" the kenster - --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:05:48 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: Re: movie talk >>> I recall being freaked the fuck out about how phasers would just dissolve >>> a guy... yeah, set phasers on stun...oops...wrong setting. where do you go when your molecules are converted into energy? >> The title sequence was scary enough for me! The "whooshing" sound the >> Enterprise makes when it speeds off-screen made me jump. ;-) that was part of the thrill. it almost parts your hair. >I had weird nightmares/fear of things in my closet that involved >permutations of the salt monster lady, the blue woman that was >pictured at the end credits, the half-black / half-white guys (I think >the fire on their home planet is the image that bothered me most), and >higher-evolved big heads (e.g. "The Menagerie" folks.) It was >generally the humanoids that scared me. I naturally thought the >silicon monster mama was very sweet.< spock's mind meld with silicon mama was over the top. that blue (or is it green?) lady from the credits (and the menagerie) was the subject of a lot of stress. apparently the tech developing the film kept altering it to make her look all pink and human and the producers kept sending it back to be re-developed. salt monster space chupacabra lady haunts me still. and those black/white dudes were too much: "it is obvious to the most simpleminded that lokai is of an inferior breed." "the obvious visual evidence, commissioner, is that he is of the same breed as yourself." "are you blind, commander spock? well, look at me. look at me!" "you're black on one side and white on the other." "i am black on the right side." "i fail to see the significant difference." "lokai is white on the right side. all of his people are white on the right side." ken "look to the cookie" the kenster - --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:09:31 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: re: beatles (s# c # a# r) >> 'rubber soul' is the beginning of the truly great beatles albums, it's >> like when dorothy comes out of the house into munchkinland. wasn't it >> recorded after zimmerman got them stoned for the first time? > >Well, maybe. Depending on your definition of stoned, they'd been on a >lot of things since their Hamburg days (how else do you play music >for 15 hours solid?) i'm talking mary jane stoned; not amphetamine-induced hypo-mania. but you're right. i love how 'backbeat' illustrates this. >I thought Dylan stoned them in '64, making Beatles for Sale their first >album on pot. that was the year that was; but according to this exerpt 'for sale' was practically finished already. http://expectingrain.com/dok/int/theloveyoumake.html "It didn't show very much on the next album, most of which was already composed and recorded anyway, but you could almost smell the pungent smoke on the album that was to follow. There was no doubt about it; Dylan had given them a key that opened a door to a new dimension of pop music, and they took the youth of the world across the threshold with them." and for a chuckle: http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/bob-dylan.html >> BTW, according to my mum, the first words I said were "yeah yeah yeah", shortly after seeing the Beatles on TV for the first time. << cheers. let's all hold hands and get high. >> it really takes a special kind of cool to hate the beatles. it >> starts with hating yourself i imagine. > >"everyone who doesn't love the beatles must hate themselves" -- ffs! The >logic astounds me. standard sigmund. feelings of inadequacy are hard to repress when the success of others continues to bring them up. the anxiety can be relieved when projected onto others. >> I'm sure I'd like them if they were faster and had more feedback. << what, like "helter skelter"? > I tend to agree with Stewart that the Beatles were a boy band who got lucky, but the ultimate test is survival < so paul and ringo win? as long as they keep putting out albums, they've passed the ultimate test? certainly, they've got to do more than that. yes, they were a boy band that made it big; but luck is such a dismissive term. luck will only get you to the first crisis (for the quarrymen, maybe the "bigger than jesus" fiasco). these guys had mad skills. their covers alone kick ass. still, they had one of the greatest songwriting teams of all time. it doesn't happen often that the most popular band is also the most experimental. they took advantage of their success and made challenging records that utilized genuine songcraft. >The Future of Rock n' Roll< can't hear this without thinking of 'rain man'. "bam!" actually, the internet has been making it so much easier to circumvent the conglomeration of music (though apparently myspace [owned by news international] uses any and all content on its site without compensating the artist -- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/08/blly_bragg_myspace/ ) by levelling the playing field and giving equal access. the future is in our hands, dawgs. everyone needs to make their own music. otherwise, we'll be left to panic at the fallout. i think that if we save rock 'n' roll for too long, it might get moldy in the back of the fridge. savor the flavor. mmm...delicious vinyl. ken "harvesting your future" the kenster np brian eno 'here come the warm jets' - --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 01:35:33 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: beatles (s# c # a# r) Michael Sweeney says: > I, too, have a very soft spot > for "Ram," as it was the first album I owned outright (beyond sing-along > kiddie records and such) -- think it was a 9th birthday gift. My mom (in > one of the very few endearing mom-like things she ever did involving me) had > to have a guy at the store open the gatefold cover, because it didn't list > tracks on the outide...to check that it indeed had "Uncle Albert and Admiral > Halsey" on it (apparently my fave radio song back then). Oh, that's dear. I love to hear of the sweet things moms or just people do. ...but if I had to choose between "Imagine" and "Ram" (and I do, of course), it's "Imagine" all the way. The song that redeems McCartney's solo career is "Maybe I'm Amazed." It even makes up for horrible songs he hasn't written or recorded yet. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:23:58 +0000 From: michaeljbachman@comcast.net Subject: Re: In Green Tea News To-day... - -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Lauren Elizabeth" > Hi Fegs, > > Okay, for reasons we won't go into, suffice it to say that the frozen > mochi balls are all yours. > > Thankfully my local Trader Joe's has great new green tea yogurt > (second item down): > http://www.traderjoes.com/whats_new_result.asp?RegionID=6&submit=Show+Me+The+Goo > ds%21 > > It's a bit pricey but it'll definitely do until they restock that > green tea gelatto. > > I got the chocolate also but thought that was a bit odd. But it's the > kind of odd that some people might find odd "in a good way." I'll have to give Trader Joe's a shot. There's one in Rochester Hills where I work. Rochester Hills used to get a lot of press in the mid 80's when Madonna was at her peak, as she spent her teenage years and graduated from Rochester Hills Adams High School. I'll be kind and not reveal any first and second hand tales I've heard about her from some classmates of hers from RHAHS. MJ Bachman NP CBC Radio Two - The Weekender Show (from Halifax, NS) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 09:41:31 -0500 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: movie talk On Mar 10, 2007, at 11:05 PM, ken ostrander wrote: > where do you go when your molecules are converted into energy? There is an Ian Wallace character (Croyd, maybe?) who refuses to use a matter transporter, claiming that it is a different person that arrives at the destination. Speaking of DAW books, the two M.A. Foster omnibus reissues are worth reading. - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:29:59 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Last Week's Puzzler... Hi Fegs, As you might know, I haven't much regard for the English language. And despite seeing two out of the three movies, I also know practically nothing about "Lord of the Rings." But I know for a fact that some of you do, and thought you might enjoy last week's puzzler on Car Talk. Needless to say, I was stumped. Don't try to win - this was last week's puzzler! http://cartalk.com/content/puzzler/transcripts/200708/index.html << A Dictionary Dazzler RAY: This puzzler was sent in by Paul Mulick. As everyone knows, in English, most singular nouns can be made plural by simply adding an 's' or sometimes an 'es' to the end of the word. So, in most cases, every letter of the singular form of the noun will also be found in the plural form. Like, "shoe" and "shoes," or "bum" and "bums." There will be exceptions, of course. For example, the word "matrix" is the plural of matrices. And "bacterium," and "bacteria." But, even in those cases, just about every letter from the singular noun also appears in the plural form. The other day, I was rereading one of my favorite books, 'The Lord of the Rings,' when an unusual word caught my eye. Of course, this book is full of all kinds of weird words from imaginary languages. But. this particular word is a bona fide English word-- and it's a plural noun. It's an old word and it's not used much nowadays, but you will find it in just about any English dictionary. The singular form of this word however is a very common English word. But, here's the interesting part. The word in question is a plural noun but it has no letters-- none-- in common with the singular form. Not one single letter. The question is what are the two words? Here's a hint: you might guess that both of the words are rather short, or at least one of them is. Because the longer the word is, the better the chances that you would duplicate a letter. >> - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:35:23 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: movie talk On 3/11/07, Steve Schiavo wrote: > > On Mar 10, 2007, at 11:05 PM, ken ostrander wrote: > > > where do you go when your molecules are converted into energy? > > > There is an Ian Wallace character (Croyd, maybe?) who refuses to use > a matter transporter, claiming that it is a different person that > arrives at the destination. What I want to know is, how does a matter transporter know what's the person and what's merely background stuff. Amazing how it always gets the person, and the person's clothing, and anything in their hands, but not bits of the floor etc. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:34:04 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: In Green Tea News To-day... On 3/11/07, michaeljbachman@comcast.net wrote: > > > I'll have to give Trader Joe's a shot. There's one in Rochester Hills > where I work. Rochester Hills used to get a lot of press in the mid 80's > when Madonna was at her peak, as she spent her teenage years and graduated > from Rochester Hills Adams High School. I'll be kind and not reveal any > first and second hand tales I've heard about her from some classmates of > hers from RHAHS. Now no one says something like that - which clearly indicates they have something to tell - unless they actually do want to tell. So spill. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:59:44 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: movie talk 2fs says: > What I want to know is, how does a matter transporter know what's the person > and what's merely background stuff. Because it hasn't been invented? xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:07:30 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Last Week's Puzzler... On 3/11/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > Hi Fegs, > > As you might know, I haven't much regard for the English language. > And despite seeing two out of the three movies, I also know > practically nothing about "Lord of the Rings." But I know for a fact > that some of you do, and thought you might enjoy last week's puzzler > on Car Talk. Needless to say, I was stumped. > > Don't try to win - this was last week's puzzler! > > http://cartalk.com/content/puzzler/transcripts/200708/index.html > > << > A Dictionary Dazzler > > RAY: This puzzler was sent in by Paul Mulick. > > As everyone knows, in English, most singular nouns can be made plural > by simply adding an 's' or sometimes an 'es' to the end of the word. > So, in most cases, every letter of the singular form of the noun will > also be found in the plural form. Like, "shoe" and "shoes," or "bum" > and "bums." There will be exceptions, of course. For example, the word > "matrix" is the plural of matrices. And "bacterium," and "bacteria." > But, even in those cases, just about every letter from the singular > noun also appears in the plural form. > > The other day, I was rereading one of my favorite books, 'The Lord of > the Rings,' when an unusual word caught my eye. Of course, this book > is full of all kinds of weird words from imaginary languages. But. > this particular word is a bona fide English word-- and it's a plural > noun. It's an old word and it's not used much nowadays, but you will > find it in just about any English dictionary. > > The singular form of this word however is a very common English word. > But, here's the interesting part. The word in question is a plural > noun but it has no letters-- none-- in common with the singular form. > Not one single letter. > > The question is what are the two words? > > Here's a hint: you might guess that both of the words are rather > short, or at least one of them is. Because the longer the word is, the > better the chances that you would duplicate a letter. I thought it was "cow" and "kine." Didn't we already answer this? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 14:23:10 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Last Week's Puzzler... 2fs says: > I thought it was "cow" and "kine." Didn't we already answer this? That's the correct answer. Is it an old puzzler or did I space out on this week's feglist discussion? xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:01:55 +0000 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Long and probably unnecessary posting Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 14:53:59 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: catching up...(luv those mutiple digest days!) Tom Clark says: > Haven't you seen Waiting For Guffman? or Best In Show? A Mighty > Wind? For Your Consideration? Yes. Yes. Yes. No. MRG: No. Yes. No. No. P.S. Still have an unopened "The Princess Bride" that a friend gave me. Is it recommended viewing? Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 15:23:57 -0500 (EST) From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Re: catching up...(luv those mutiple digest days!) Princess Bride has had cult status in my family since it came out and used to be required holiday viewing - to the point that we can all, including the kids, quote it word for word. That said I notice we've slacked off considerably in latter years and haven't watched it at all for 3 or so. It's pretty funny, so says this dedicated-film-festival-attendee-the-bleaker-the-film the better kinda gal. Directed by Rob "This is Spinal Tap" Reiner and written by William Goldman. It's a must see at least once. - - - c * Yes its ecstatic, a cult favourite of my familys too, and has a great Knopfler soundtrack, like Local Hero. [He may be a boring guitar player but he writes excellent film music]. > I walked away feeling like they were coasting, though Fred Willard > & Jane Lynch are funny and Catherine O'Hara brings some of her > best face-contorting wizardry since SCTV. It is always a pleasure > to watch these folks work, even when not at their peak. Perhaps > the target was too easy? I wouldn't say they were coasting exactly, but things were definitely off. The character development was practically non-existant; Guest and Levy spent so much time trying to fit everyone from the unofficial troup they've created that ultimately no one had anything to do. * I got that impression from parts of Best in Show too. And has anyone else commented on the virtual identity in format of Spellbound and BiS? Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:06:06 -0600 From: "Gene Hopstetter Jr." Subject: Re: recommendations in the 100-200 GBP bracket Rega P2 or P3 might fit in that bracket. Neither of them will fit in your glove box, I'm afraid. * Thanks, Gene. Michael Sweeney Still not sure that "Ram," "London Town," "Venus and Mars," "Band on the Run," and even "Tug of War" can make up for "Press to Play," "Give My Regards to Broad Street," "Pipes of Peace," and "Off the Ground" ("Biker Like An Icon"??? are we to believe the same man that wrote "Eleanor Rigby" and "For No One" wrote that crap? Paul must be well and truly dead...) * I never saw The Beatles but I did see Wings twice, when they were promoting Red Rose Speedway and Venus and Mars IIRC. Good versions of Single Pigeon, Long Tall Sally and his sizzling solo composition Baby Im Amazed, plus a singalong version of Ive just seen a face. I was shaken when I bought Best of McCartney recently and found that Baby Im Amazed wasnt on it, but With a little luck was. Has his Wings quality control lost its way? Or did he never have any? > White Album crushes all other Beatles albums. Even without > "Revolution #9" which still creeps me the hell out. * Still not convinced that The Beatles _is_ a Beatles album, despite the title. I think it is a mishmash of two and a half solo albums by people who werent even speaking to one another at the time, bit like the recent Oasis stuff. > > it really takes a special kind of cool to hate the beatles. it starts > > with hating yourself i imagine. > > I only take that comment seriously coming from people who do not like > anything influenced by the Beatles, which, generally speaking rock-wise, is > everything. Otherwise they are most likely poseurs. Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 20:52:09 -0500 ken ostrander wrote: > > it really takes a special kind of cool to hate the beatles. it > starts with hating yourself i imagine. From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: beatles (s# c # a# r) "everyone who doesn't love the beatles must hate themselves" -- ffs! The logic astounds me. I'm sure I'd like them if they were faster and had more feedback. Stewart - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 23:00:16 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: beatles (s# c # a# r) Tom Clark says: > My boss despises The Beatles, says they ruined Rock n' Roll. Michael Bachman: Bruce Springsteen was being touted as The Future of Rock n' Roll back in 1975 by some, but I never bought into it. This stuff goes in waves. For awhile there though, I thought The Clash were THE ones, but it didn't last long. I stopped carrying who was saving Rock 'n Roll for the general public after R.E.M. flamed out for me when they released Green in 1988. * My mates tried to persuade me about both Springsteen and Strummer, but without success. On 3/9/07, Tom Clark wrote: > My boss despises The Beatles, says they ruined Rock n' Roll. > Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 22:43:50 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: beatles (s# c # a# r) This is an "argument" I've heard many times. I've never understood it. First, what exactly is "rock'n'roll," and how did the Beatles ruin it? So rock'n'roll was in excellent shape until the Beatles came along, is that it? (Check the charts in 1962 before the Beatles, and tell me if you agree...) * Well, I was there (1962-65) listening to the recently-deceased Eddie Cochran and the still active Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent and Little Richard. I was very worried about the effect of The Beatles at that time. Our asthmatic boarding school split into Rockers like me Chris Lloyd and Mark Redgrave who liked real rocknroll, and Mods who liked ska, blue beat and Merseybeat records. Of course in the end I succumbed; but I always preferred The Animals (from Newcastle) and The Hollies (from Manchester) to the overrated Merseybeat groups. And of course I liked London groups like The Kinks and The Rolling Stones. But The Who were always too Mod for me (though I have seen them perform some excellent gigs). Or is this about the Beatles incorporating a whole lot of non-rock influences? C'mon: that surely would have happened anyway - it was in the air. Jazz was exploring eastern and African influences at the same time, and had already incorporated classical-type structures and sounds. If anything, the Beatles arguably *saved* rock'n'roll - by introducing the still-common archetype of a self-contained band that wrote and performed (and later, arranged) its own material and output - even including having a huge hand in the album art. Name a rock group of that type before the Beatles. There really weren't any. * Buddy Holly and the Crickets. Even when musicians performed primarily their own material (Chuck Berry, say), the band was more like a backing unit than what we now think of as a band. Or is it that the Beatles didn't "rock"? Uh-huh - compare their version of "Long Tall Sally" with everything else going on at about the same time  and try again. * I agree that Paul performs Long Tall Sally as well as Little Richard does. But as Dobie Gray says The original is still the greatest. Finally: even if the Beatles were solely responsible for watering down The Rock, and introducing limp-wristed violins and shit into the music (oh puh-lease...name a pre-1962 rocker who didn't strive for mainstream success, including movie music, etc.), and even if someone else wouldn't have come along and done the same thing, why does the Beatles having done so prevent *other* bands from doing the rock'n'roll thing themselves? Or is there no rock at all after 1962? Everyone was so utterly hypnotized by the Beatles (even, of course, those who hated them) that they could no longer figure out how to rock? The whole thing is a lame, shallow, ex-post-facto argument that's built primarily on not liking a very influential band (and its influence) - but as an argument, it's about as flimsy as they come. * Great argument, Jeffrey! If I hadnt been there at the time, I would have been convinced! - - Mike Godwin, who just found a school ruler inscribed 'Billy J Kramer is best', totally undermining the above argument... PS There is a gaping cheeseburger-shaped void in the whole of the above discussion. Personally I like '(Marie's the name of) His Latest Flame' but plenty of other people don't... ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #96 *******************************