From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #89 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, March 7 2007 Volume 16 : Number 089 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Definitive 200 [craigie* ] Re: Frippermendations? [Dolph Chaney ] Re: Frippermendations? [Dolph Chaney ] Re: Definitive 200 [Dolph Chaney ] Re: Frippermendations? [2fs ] Re: Definitive 200 [2fs ] Re: Frippermendations? [craigie* ] Re: Definitive 200 [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Fripp Crimson ["John Irvine" ] RE: Definitive 200 ["Michael Wells" ] RE: Definitive 200 [Christopher Gross ] Re: Fripp Crimson [2fs ] Frakkin' toasters. [The Great Quail ] Re: Frakkin' toasters. ["Sumiko Keay" ] Re: Frakkin' toasters. ["Jason Brown" ] Re: Frakkin' toasters. [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: not quite done yet ["Jason Brown" ] Re: movie talk [Rex ] Re: VU Acetate MP3s [Rex ] Re: Frippermendations? [Rex ] Re: Definitive 200 ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Frippermendations? [Rex ] Re: Definitive 200 [Rex ] Re: not quite done yet [Rex ] Re: Definitive 200 [2fs ] Re: Definitive 200 [Rex ] Re: Frippermendations? [2fs ] following up... [2fs ] Re: not quite done yet ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: Definitive 200 [Rex ] Re: following up... [Rex ] Re: not quite done yet ["vivien lyon" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 12:37:07 +0000 From: craigie* Subject: Re: Definitive 200 good answer. short, and to the point. you win a pizza! c* On 07/03/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > Capuchin says: > > Um, do you have any Eminem or Green Day records? > > Yes. > > xo > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." > > - The Buddha > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:28:48 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: Frippermendations? Consider the Sylvian / Fripp studio album THE FIRST DAY -- it can be had for a pittance used. If you dig the basic formula of their collaboration as presented there, by all means get thee to the ferocious live DAMAGE album. - -- Dolph At 06:45 PM 3/6/2007, Rex wrote: > > I don't think Fripp's solo stuff is really him at his best. But if you're > > looking for a more song-oriented Fripp, _Exposure_ is a good start. > > (Pretend > > you don't recognize who's singing on half the tracks.) > > > > And is that first League of Gentlemen album in print? Kind of amusing to > > hear Frippiness crossed with vintage new-wave-y jitteriness...although I > > haven't listened to that in years. > > >Hee. Have both of those and and an Eno collaboration (plus the tons of >examples of Fripp on other people records I've accrued over the past two >decades). Song-orientedness is not important to me here... just less >Crimson-y sounding, at least at first blush. Experimental is all good. > >Thanks! >Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:38:11 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: Frippermendations? Oops, sorry -- Steve got to the Sylvian/Fripp already. In addition, I'd recommend checking his website as every few days he posts a free mp3. Sometimes it's live Crimson, sometimes it's Frippertronics / Soundscapes, sometimes Fripp / Eno, but it's a good way to hear the variety of what he's done. - -- Dolph At 10:26 PM 3/6/2007, Steve Schiavo wrote: >On Mar 6, 2007, at 1:19 PM, Rex wrote: > >>So, while not ready to make the leap into trying to like King >>Crimson, it >>seems I've been accruing and auditioning more and more Fripp solo >>projects >>and collaborations. But I've realized I'm doing it pretty willy- nilly... >>can y'all recommend the best, or most representative stuff? I'll >>already >>have some of it, but I'd still appreciate some pointers about >>what's the >>good stuff and why. > > >The First Day - Sylvian & Fripp >Damage - Sylvian & Fripp > >The Bridge Between - Fripp > >Love Cannot Bear - Fripp > >The first two, especially, if you like Japan/Sylvian any at all. >Damage is pretty much the live tour featuring material from The First >Day. The original mix by Fripp is o/p, and rather expensive if you >can find it. The current release is a remix by Sylvian. > >The Bridge Between is Fripp, Trey Gunn playing Warr guitar, and The >California Guitar Trio (guys from Fripp's guitar class) playing >acoustics. > >Love Cannot Bear is a soundscapes (or Frippertronics) album. This is >what you would hear if you went to see Fripp solo. Improvised pieces >that are built up using whatever devices Fripp uses these days. >Earlier it was two Revoxes and the "Frippelboard" plus guitar. > > >- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:46:42 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: Definitive 200 At 12:07 AM 3/7/2007, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: >So...what do you all think about the list? I'll be kind and just say there >are numerous...conspicuous...omissions. > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000062961 >http://www.definitive200.com I will say this resembles the jukebox selection of most bars. Hence why I don't go to most bars. - -- Dolph ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:08:35 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Frippermendations? On 3/7/07, craigie* wrote: > > The three comeback albums (Discipline, Beat and Three of A Perfect Pair) > from the early 80's are also a lot less Crimson-y than most, whilst having > *something* in conmmon with, say, Red or Larks' Tongues, they are certainly > among the more accessible Crimson albums. > In some ways they're not all that dissimilar from contemporary Talking Heads stuff, say. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:15:26 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Definitive 200 On 3/7/07, Dolph Chaney wrote: > > At 12:07 AM 3/7/2007, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > >So...what do you all think about the list? I'll be kind and just say > there > >are numerous...conspicuous...omissions. > > > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000062961 > >http://www.definitive200.com The short version of the response I posted at the amazon discussion boards: "If this were my music collection, I'd kill myself." Kenny G.? Jesus on a bicycle! - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:19:02 +0000 From: craigie* Subject: Re: Frippermendations? agreed. Now I tghink about it, even Adrian Belew's vocals sound like David Byrne's would do later on Naked. c* On 07/03/07, 2fs wrote: > > On 3/7/07, craigie* wrote: > > > > The three comeback albums (Discipline, Beat and Three of A Perfect Pair) > > from the early 80's are also a lot less Crimson-y than most, whilst > having > > *something* in conmmon with, say, Red or Larks' Tongues, they are > certainly > > among the more accessible Crimson albums. > > > > In some ways they're not all that dissimilar from contemporary Talking > Heads > stuff, say. > > > -- > > ...Jeff Norman > > The Architectural Dance Society > http://spanghew.blogspot.com > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:25:28 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Definitive 200 - --On 6. Mdrz 2007 22:07:22 -0800 Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > So...what do you all think about the list? The top 10 don't seem all that bad - I've got 9 out of 10. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:35:25 -0500 From: "John Irvine" Subject: Fripp Crimson "The three comeback albums (Discipline, Beat and Three of A Perfect Pair) from the early 80's are also a lot less Crimson-y than most, whilst having *something* in conmmon with, say, Red or Larks' Tongues, they are certainly among the more accessible Crimson albums." Those are the only ones I still listen to. There is a lot of impressive playing on their earlier records, but little beauty or lasting melody. My favourite Fripp stuff ever are the handful of solos he added to Enos own records - "Green World" in particlular. - -J http://www.thejennifers.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:41:27 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: RE: Definitive 200 I don't know...is it the overall selections or just the jarring juxtapositions? Dixie Chicks WIDE OPEN SPACES 33 v Beatles Revolver 42 WHITNEY HOUSTON 46 v Joni Mitchell BLUE 52 Jewel PIECES OF YOU 64 v Coltrane A LOVE SUPREME 78 (a little sweaty) Creed HUMAN CLAY 95 v Stones BEGGAR'S BANQUET 121 (feeling not at all well) Dixie Chicks HOME 100 v Bob Marley Exodus 125 (bile starting to rise) Dixie Chicks STARTING TO FLY 113 v Sinatra IN THE WEE SMALL HOURS (must...maintain...) CHRISTINA AGUILERA 127 v Cat Stevens TEA FOR THE TILLERMAN 148 (heading for the roof with a rifle) Also, it's pretty clear that I've been *seriously* underestimating the Dixie Chicks for all these years. Michael "not that I like TEA FOR THE TILLERMAN that much, but jeez..." Wells ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:49:34 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: RE: Definitive 200 Does anyone know how the list was compiled? I didn't see anything on the site about this. Was it based on an online poll? (And if so, where?) Surely they couldn't be so cynical as to just pick the 200 best-selling albums, then rearrange the top 20 or so to make it look more respectable? Right? Right? ... What *really* turned me off was the slogan on the Hall of Fame page: "Celebrate the Power of Rock and the History of Cool." Bleah. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:05:48 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Fripp Crimson On 3/7/07, John Irvine wrote: > > "The three comeback albums (Discipline, Beat and Three of A Perfect Pair) > from the early 80's are also a lot less Crimson-y than most, whilst having > *something* in conmmon with, say, Red or Larks' Tongues, they are > certainly > among the more accessible Crimson albums." > > Those are the only ones I still listen to. There is a lot of > impressive playing on their earlier records, but little beauty or > lasting melody. What about "I Talk to the Wind"? Or "Book of Saturday"? Or "Exiles"? Or "The Night Watch"? "Fallen Angel"? "Starless"? There were usually one or two conventionally melodic songs (even if they sometimes also included lengthy instrumental sections) alongside the more berserker moments on nearly every Crimson album... I"ve never really warmed to the bands that recorded the 3 albums in between _Court..._ and _Larks' Tongues..._, but I seem to recall some of that "beauty [and] lasting melody" there, too. Ah well - YMMV (your monkey may validate). My favourite Fripp stuff ever are the handful of solos he added to > Enos own records - "Green World" in particlular. > > -J > http://www.thejennifers.com > - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:11:18 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Frakkin' toasters. Just wanted to chime in to say that "Battlestar Galactica" is one of my favorite shows, and I pretty much disagree completely with everything Capuchin says about it. In fact, I may like it for some of the very reasons he does not. I also think that the characters are generally complex, and I appreciate that they behave fascinating and realistically ambiguous ways. It should be also pointed out in reference to the "These are the people who are supposed to save humanity?" accusation, well, the crew of the Galactica are has-beens and misfits who were rotated to an antique vessel on the verge of retirement. Anyway, I think it's among the best things on TV in a long time. (The only shows I watch anymore are BSG, The Wire, Rome, Deadwood, Sopranos, Entourage, Real Time with Bill Maher, Dexter, The Shield, and Survivor.) However, regarding BSG -- I have only been able to catch Season 3 in re-runs on the HD channel, and just got up to "Torn." I have to say, aside from believing that the writers drew too many heavy-handed parallels with Iraq in the first few episodes of the season, I am amazed at its quality and direction. However, a few folks here have said it's "recently" lost its way. I am just wondering, is that in reference to the season up until this point, or does potential disappointment await me? - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:22:33 -0600 From: "Sumiko Keay" Subject: Re: Frakkin' toasters. I think that episodes 13-15 (possibly 12-15) suffer from that mid-season blah-thing but episode 16 was completely intense. And then I had to listen to RDM's podcast. I should learn to NOT do that. Sumi On 3/7/07, The Great Quail wrote: > Just wanted to chime in to say that "Battlestar Galactica" is one of my > favorite shows, and I pretty much disagree completely with everything > Capuchin says about it. In fact, I may like it for some of the very reasons > he does not. I also think that the characters are generally complex, and I > appreciate that they behave fascinating and realistically ambiguous ways. > > It should be also pointed out in reference to the "These are the people who > are supposed to save humanity?" accusation, well, the crew of the Galactica > are has-beens and misfits who were rotated to an antique vessel on the verge > of retirement. > > Anyway, I think it's among the best things on TV in a long time. (The only > shows I watch anymore are BSG, The Wire, Rome, Deadwood, Sopranos, > Entourage, Real Time with Bill Maher, Dexter, The Shield, and Survivor.) > > However, regarding BSG -- I have only been able to catch Season 3 in re-runs > on the HD channel, and just got up to "Torn." I have to say, aside from > believing that the writers drew too many heavy-handed parallels with Iraq in > the first few episodes of the season, I am amazed at its quality and > direction. > > However, a few folks here have said it's "recently" lost its way. I am just > wondering, is that in reference to the season up until this point, or does > potential disappointment await me? > > --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:22:45 -0800 From: "Jason Brown" Subject: Re: Frakkin' toasters. On 3/7/07, The Great Quail wrote: > However, a few folks here have said it's "recently" lost its way. I am just > wondering, is that in reference to the season up until this point, or does > potential disappointment await me? I think going behind the curtain with the Cylon Villians may have been a mistake but it remains to be seen where it all will lead. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:23:00 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Frakkin' toasters. - --On 7. Mdrz 2007 10:11:18 -0500 The Great Quail wrote: > Just wanted to chime in to say that "Battlestar Galactica" is one of my > favorite shows, and I pretty much disagree completely with everything > Capuchin says about it. I think I'm somewhere in between. I enjoy the series, but I agree 100% with Capuchin's complaints about the characterization and the plot development. > In fact, I may like it for some of the very > reasons he does not. I also think that the characters are generally > complex, and I appreciate that they behave fascinating and realistically > ambiguous ways. I think they behave in arbitrary ways which change from week to week without any discernible reason other than a writer's whim. The most egregious example to me is Roslyn(sp?). Her behavior recently has been all over the place. That in itself isn't necessarily bad, but it doesn't feel like it's character development, it feels like writers just *using* her. I just don't let that ruin the fun for me :-) I've decided that BSG is a show just like 24: best not to think too much about it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:25:02 -0800 From: "Jason Brown" Subject: Re: not quite done yet On 3/7/07, Capuchin wrote: > Of course, the show is safe. Nobody really risks their lives at all. The > writers are too uncertain of their own popularity to know if/who they can > kill without destroying their fanbase. I think the latest episode completely contradicts that statement. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:29:30 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: movie talk On 3/6/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > i actually think of "buffalo 66" as her big one. it seems required > viewing for first-generation male hipsters. or wait, are hipsters by > definition male? Lord, no... not in my neck of the cosmopolis, anyway. i haven't seen either "monster" or "addams family" > but have seen her in "sleepy hollow", "prozac nation", "the opposite > of sex", "buffalo 66", and yes now "black snake moan." she's got > lovely big eyes. All those were her big indie-calling cards, and yeah, she was lusted after by the indie boys, probably for picking movies like that, but also, probably, for *not* being waifish or glammy (at the time). this is an entire subject for me. "star trek" is very integrated into > my psyche. i started watching at a young age (6 or 7 years old) and > i'm sure it has shaped some of my personality. i had a large > black-and-white poster of mr. spock on the wall behind my headboard. > that is sort of odd for a 7-year old. i had a cassette recording and > i called it "nomad" although come to think of it, does one really want > that bad boy nomad hanging around the house? I recall being freaked the fuck out about how phasers would just dissolve a guy... pfft, gone, and nobody would even know he was dead... I thought of those redshirts as like, real guys, not plot points, because I think I was too young to realize that certain people were major characters and others were extras. And complete obliteration was pretty scary. Is pretty scary, actually. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:33:18 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: VU Acetate MP3s On 3/6/07, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Tom Clark wrote: > > > > Grab the whole thing here: > > http://s11.quicksharing.com/v/3451937/Velvet_Underground.zip.html > > I don't think it's likely to disappear soon. Those MP3s have been around > for months on WFMU, and probably almost a year total. Aren't they actually from an older acetate than the one recently discovered/auctioned? I think I harvested mine right after the eBay auction started and then found out they were older than that... memory on this not so hot... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:37:15 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Frippermendations? On 3/7/07, craigie* wrote: > > The three comeback albums (Discipline, Beat and Three of A Perfect Pair) > from the early 80's are also a lot less Crimson-y than most, whilst having > *something* in conmmon with, say, Red or Larks' Tongues, they are certainly > among the more accessible Crimson albums. > What I've heard from these is far and away the Crimson stuff I've liked most (although that suggests to me that I might be lame). I like the stuff that all the players were up to as guests on other peoples' records of that time, much of which seems to have influenced their sound in ways I like. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:38:54 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Definitive 200 Michael Wells says: > Dixie Chicks WIDE OPEN SPACES 33 v Beatles Revolver 42 Plus I thought people put "Revolver" as #1 before "Sgt. Pepper" these days anyway. Oh, whoops that's only *cool* people who do that... Good post about the juxtapositions, Mr. Wells. That's what got to me. Anyway, if they're going to put a Coltrane album in, the list gets even worse because now besides all those rock albums that are better than the Dixie Chicks, there's all those jazz albums as well. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:42:16 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Frippermendations? On 3/6/07, Steve Schiavo wrote: > > > The first two, especially, if you like Japan/Sylvian any at all. > Damage is pretty much the live tour featuring material from The First > Day. The original mix by Fripp is o/p, and rather expensive if you > can find it. The current release is a remix by Sylvian. I'm easing into Japan as well. Sylvian is one of my drummer's favorite artists, which I think is pretty cool for a drummer (he's really a multi-instrumentalist and plays a mean fretless bass). > > The Bridge Between is Fripp, Trey Gunn playing Warr guitar, > Keskuh say, "Warr guitar"? > Love Cannot Bear is a soundscapes (or Frippertronics) album. > The best of the lot, you'd say? I'm pretty interested in this side of his stuff, actually. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:46:09 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Definitive 200 On 3/6/07, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > So...what do you all think about the list? I'll be kind and just say there > are numerous...conspicuous...omissions. > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000062961 > http://www.definitive200.com DO NOT WANT - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:51:49 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: not quite done yet On 3/7/07, Capuchin wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2007, Rex wrote: > > But that sounds incredibly realistic. Not necessarily uplifting, but > > accurate. > > I guess that's another reason I'm glad I don't live in LA. It's not > realistic to me. Those aren't people I know or spend any time around. No no no... you were talking about fallible, fucked up *leaders*. Your description didn't sound like my *friends*... it sounded like real political leaders. So not I'm not talking about LA here... DC and other seats of national power, state capitols, City Hall, the UN, the Hague, etc. > And I certainly don't believe that if the shit hit the fan, any one of > those people would raise a fucking finger to save humanity, leastwise risk > their lives on a daily basis. That's what sounded true to life to me. Mind you, I've never seen BSG in its current incarnation... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:54:48 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Definitive 200 On 3/7/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > Anyway, if they're going to put a Coltrane album in, the list gets > even worse because now besides all those rock albums that are better > than the Dixie Chicks, there's all those jazz albums as well. The people who put these lists together always seem to think that they have to show the "diversity" of their tastes, and so there's yr token hip-hop CD, yr token jazz CD, etc. etc. The problem is, they're too obviously tokens, in a list otherwise dominated by rock and pop. And in a way, it doesn't really make sense to rank all these things together: what one's looking for in a good hip-hop CD is pretty different from what's looked for in a good indie-rock CD or a good jazz CD. And saying Public Enemy is better than George Jones (or the reverse) is kinda like saying a Les Paul is better than a Buick. There aren't really that many ways to compare them. I'd be much happier if it was billed as "the definitive rock-pop album list" or something, and the stuff that isn't that just omitted. Not much happier. Perhaps "the definitive list of best-sellers regardless of musical merit" would hit it. Is there a worse, more annoying rock band than Live? The annoying shirtless singer always inspired thoughts of violence, like going all Elvis on the TV screen when he was on. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:55:10 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Definitive 200 On 3/7/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > Michael Wells says: > > Dixie Chicks WIDE OPEN SPACES 33 v Beatles Revolver 42 > > Plus I thought people put "Revolver" as #1 before "Sgt. Pepper" these > days anyway. Oh, whoops that's only *cool* people who do that... I thought that, hipster-wise, the White Album was the new "Revolver". - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:58:48 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Frippermendations? On 3/7/07, Rex wrote: > > > > > > The Bridge Between is Fripp, Trey Gunn playing Warr guitar, > > > > Keskuh say, "Warr guitar"? Baby Jesus flies down from heaven bearing the gift of Google on his pudgy little shoulders: < http://www.google.com/search?q=%22warr+guitar%22&hl=en&sourceid=gd> (Either that, or it was The Amazing Keskuh.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:59:39 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: following up... So, it's all set that Robert Fripp's gonna show up at Rex's place with the Buffy DVDs, right? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:14:02 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: not quite done yet From: Capuchin >I guess that's another reason I'm glad I don't live in LA. It's not >realistic to me. Those aren't people I know or spend any time around. > >And I certainly don't believe that if the shit hit the fan, any one of >those people would raise a fucking finger to save humanity, leastwise risk >their lives on a daily basis. Like anyone in LA cares whether or not some pathetic moronic anarchist dipshit wants to live there anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:23:00 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Definitive 200 On 3/7/07, 2fs wrote: > > The people who put these lists together always seem to think that they > have > to show the "diversity" of their tastes, and so there's yr token hip-hop > CD, > yr token jazz CD, etc. etc. > > The problem is, they're too obviously tokens, in a list otherwise > dominated > by rock and pop. Of course, we all know people who arrange their tastes this way, too. Some of those people I think are honestly trying to broaden their own horizons, somewhat awkwardly but earnestly, and I wish them luck with it... the ones that bray about it seem to be just trying to look cool, though. To what end I really don't know, but it's a common enough affliction. > > And saying Public Enemy is better than George Jones (or the reverse) is > kinda like saying a Les Paul is better than a Buick. There aren't really > that many ways to compare them. Well, there are plenty of really precise ways to compare them, both being rhythmic music with male vocal accompaniment and such. But why? Any number of the Rolling Stone 100-Best lists I poured over in my early days of rock fandom, and now find embarassingly facile, are INFINITELY better than this thing. And that's not good! > > Is there a worse, more annoying rock band than Live? Any band listing Live as one of their primary influences? There was a time when musicians-wanted ads were rife with bands self-described as influenced by "U2, REM, Live, Counting Crows". There's some cognitive dissonance for ya (or for me, at least). On the other topic, to anyone stuck in 1978 like me, the concept of "Starbuck fucking Baltar" is... well... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:24:40 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: following up... On 3/7/07, 2fs wrote: > > So, it's all set that Robert Fripp's gonna show up at Rex's place with the > Buffy DVDs, right? But I asked for Sarah Michelle Gellar with a bunch of King Crimson records. Oh well... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:32:59 -0800 From: "vivien lyon" Subject: Re: not quite done yet On 3/6/07, Rex wrote: > > > What drives these characters? For the most part, I see nothing but > > survival as the motivation with no higher goal which immediately > regresses > > into expedience and pragmatism. That's no kind of ethical basis and > isn't > > at all interesting to watch. And yet still the pragmatist is frustrated > > by the ignorance and irresponsibility of the characters who continue to > > ignore obvious alcoholism, emotional and psychological instability, rank > > incompetence, and contempt for the very humanity they are attempting to > > save. In the end, the message seems to be that the people in power are > > crazy and we still should follow them because we need big guns to > protect > > us. It just makes no sense. > > > But that sounds incredibly realistic. Not necessarily uplifting, but > accurate. Exactly. Expecting people to make sense in a prolonged crisis situation just seems silly to me. Or stunted. People are driven by complex forces even they have a hard time perceiving. Jeme, you seem to believe in this "rational actor" view of humanity that is stymied by realistic human inconsistency. You also seem to think that a show that doesn't end up preaching some moral code is worthless. What I like about Battlestar Galactica is that it makes us question our own motivations and moral codes. And how can you say that there is no character development? I don't know how far you got in the series, but Gaius' character makes some tremendous developments. Anyone who sees in him simple a sociopath is either not looking hard enough, or is unable to confront the darker aspects of themselves. Capuchin: "Did YOU get something out of Starbuck fucking Baltar? They had no connection really before or after (sharing almost no screen time except at a poker table) and if it was just a random, drunken hook-up that they are both kind of prone to having, then why show us at all? I don't feel like anyone came out of the experience any different and I don't think it illustrated anything about the characters that we didn't already know. So what's the point? Is it just to fulfill some fanfanfantasy about different characters having sex?" Please. Starbuck was fucking Gaius because she could not face up to her feelings about Lee. Gaius was fucking Starbuck because his "relationship" with Number Six was confusing him and he was looking for something real. And furthermore, I see nothing wrong with fulfilling the audience's fantasies about characters having sex. In fact, I will be so bold as to say the sexuality of the show is a major factor in why I like it. I really _like_ the fact that the characters are not neutered, and that they are allowed to do wanton, base and irrational things. V. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #89 *******************************