From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #72 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, February 27 2007 Volume 16 : Number 072 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: The Lives of Others [ken ostrander ] Re: Black Snake Diamond Role T-Shirt? [Tom Clark ] re: autographs and food [ken ostrander ] Re: Costello Top 5 [ken ostrander ] Re: Costello Top 5 [2fs ] Re: The Lives of Others [Benjamin Lukoff ] Conservapedia [Steve Schiavo ] re: oscar time [ken ostrander ] Re: The Lives of Others [2fs ] Re: Beyond Belief ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Little Hands of Concrete [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: Conservapedia ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Conservapedia ["Jason Brown" ] Re: autographs and food [Rex ] Happy Birthday Dexter ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: I'm Just a Girl... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Conservapedia [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #71 [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: The Day They Ate Brick [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #71 ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:02:50 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: Re: The Lives of Others >>>>Difficult subject. I'm still disappointed and disillusioned by what was at the time called the "victory" of capitalism over socialism. I've never called myself a communist, and in the 80's it was common knowledge that the DKP were principally a party that valued ideology over reality. But still as a youth I held hope that the Eastern Bloc might after all offer some alternative to the system I grew up in, which I perceived as morally corrupt. In fact in my teens I declared that I would never visit the US and would rather travel to the Soviet Union :-) As it turns out, I *did* go there first, but my feelings regarding the US have changed substantially - not regarding politics, but regarding the actual people.<<<< this is a difficult subject. i think that any system is going to be corrupt (or corruptable) when humans are involved. both socialism and capitalism can be morally bankrupt. for me, the fact that the former at leasts claims to be about the people puts it on higher ground than the latter which claims to be all about money. politics and religion are just human systems. i've often heard it said that "the political is the personal"; and i believe that. it all comes down to what each of us does in our own lives. our beliefs inform our actions (or lack thereof). all of these armies that support brutal regimes or perpetrate unspeakable atrocities must be made up of people who believe that what they are doing is right. or else, we're taking sociopathology on a massive scale; which seems just as likely. i don't think the ends ever justify the means. the "ideology over reality" thing seems to apply pretty easily to the current american regime as well. if we're waiting for some governmental organization to fix everything for us, then we might as well get back in line. ken "give me convenience or give me death" the kenster - --------------------------------- Never Miss an Email Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:18:31 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Black Snake Diamond Role T-Shirt? On Feb 25, 2007, at 6:26 AM, Bri N wrote: > There was a BSDR T-shirt? I've never seen that one. I'd like too. I > made my own in 1988 I think. I doubt it was an official release. Basically it's a grey shirt with the album cover graphic, sans the album title. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:20:36 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: re: autographs and food >Okay! So, what's the weirdest thing you've have a celebrity sign?< when i was a college freshmen in boston i went with some friend to try and see the fixx at the channel. since we were all under twenty one, there was no chance that we were getting in; so we just kind of hung around by the busabego outside in hopes of catching the band going in. it was cold but we kept ourselves amused and warm dancing around and singing. at one point the manager (or some such shit) came over and told us that we couldn't be there. "the band doesn't want you here." literally, as he was saying this, they came out of the vehicle and came right over to us. we made a little bit of chit chat and i offered my video rental card for them to sign. >Quite a few of my vegetarian friends "begged to differ" yeah, i hear that. i've gone out to eat with vegan friends and it's really tough. i've actually tried meatless for about a week after hearing a lot of the reasoning behind it. the image of solid animal fat being removed from major blood vessles is pretty convincing. i try and cut down on the pork and beef; but every once in a while i've got to have it. i really like the idea of being vegetarian though and will go without on a regular basis. my daughter turns up her nose at just about any meat we give her with a look that seems to say, "this smells like a dead animal!" ken "wey wey hep a hole ding dong yeah yeah" the kenster - --------------------------------- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: Re: Costello Top 5 gawd. it seems a ridiculous exercise to even try. the only way i can do it is to exclude the obvious. here's my top five that aren't on his (first) greatest hits album: lipstick vogue opportunity you'll never be a man radio sweetheart tears before bedtime and another top five from material that he's put out since: god give me strength you tripped at every step deep dark truthful mirror battered old bird fifteen petals > Beyond Belief is the song that made me a Costello fan. I still think it's > one of the best songs in his catalog, or any, really. it's transplendant. i never get sick of it. the wordplay is dizzying and the music draws you in building and building as you struggle to catch your breath (especially if you're trying to sing along). the spell gets broken during the cathartic chorus and then you stumble back into the groove. sort of the audio equivilant of beer goggles. >> For a much better (and - for Lauren's benefit - more mathy) explanation, see >> . > >I will have to give that a closer read, but it's very interesting and >a bit complicated. There's a lot of math in there hiding in the >corners and under the carpet. Hell, even right out in the open. >Makes me wish I had paid attention to the Bach parts of "Godel, >Escher, Bach."< i'll have to break it out myself. i've been slowly learning to play the piano; and the way everything is just laid out in a straight line is very different from the wacky guitar fretboard. the idea that it all comes together mathematically is at once intriguing and overwhelming. i can't imagine working out ratios in my head while i'm playing; but i suppose that's why composing often takes a long time. it would be nice to just look at the keyboard and just "get it". i don't want to overthink. it's so much more gratifying to just let go and play. ken "in a certain way he looks like elvis, in a certain way he feels like jesus" the kenster - --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:17:22 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Costello Top 5 On 2/26/07, ken ostrander wrote: > > > > i'll have to break it out myself. i've been slowly learning to play the > piano; and the way everything is just laid out in a straight line is very > different from the wacky guitar fretboard. the idea that it all comes > together mathematically is at once intriguing and overwhelming. i can't > imagine working out ratios in my head while i'm playing; but i suppose > that's why composing often takes a long time. it would be nice to just look > at the keyboard and just "get it". i don't want to overthink. it's so much > more gratifying to just let go and play. Definitely. Analysis is a tool, but I think it's one best used post-facto - not to write with. Or at least, not until you already know how to play and write. I think the best way to learn an instrument - other than the most basic techniques (and probably, where guitar is concerned, I have a zillion bad habits) - is by ear, so you know what something's going to sound like before you play it. The piano's convenient that way, and for expanding your ears, because you can play any combination of notes and learn what they sound like. The problem with conventional lessons is they restrict you to particular, common chords - and even if you don't want to be all avant-garde, I think learning to hear weirdo, bizarre chords musically rather than as mere noise is a useful skill. I've babbled about this many times, but - one of the things about Andy Partridge and XTC that I really like is the way he'll put together songs and chords not out of some theory, nor from mere mechanical habit (the way some flashy guitarists seem to do it), but from sort of exploring the fretboard. There's a great 12-minute one-way interview bit where he describes how he wrote "Easter Theater": it came about from him messing around on the guitar, thinking about what the odd chord he played (the first one - voiced E-C#-D# and played on the open E string, A at the 4th fret, D at the 1st fret) sounded like to him: the rest of the verse chord sequence came from him moving a finger at a time, then moving the whole sequence of chord shapes. Even the lyrics came out of his sort of synaesthetic thinking based on those sounds. (The chorus, incidentally, was a completely separate bit that he'd written years before - just chords & melody - which suddenly came back to him as he was figuring out where to go from the *exceedingly* odd chord immediately before it (A-G-G# - no way to voice that conventionally!)... Anyway, back to the piano: bang about at will, but *listen*. It occurs to me, btw, that we've sorta switched places: I'm actually making an argument similar to the one you were making a few weeks ago about intuition, science, etc. - whereas I'm saying, no, the numbers can't tell the whole story...or at least, they shouldn't *lead* the story...O what a wangled veg we tease... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:27:40 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: The Lives of Others On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, ken ostrander wrote: > this is a difficult subject. i think that any system is going to be > corrupt (or corruptable) when humans are involved. both socialism and > capitalism can be morally bankrupt. for me, the fact that the former at > leasts claims to be about the people puts it on higher ground than the > latter which claims to be all about money. politics and religion are Some might argue that capitalism is really about individual rights, and socialism is about the good of the collective, and it's *all* about people. > just human systems. i've often heard it said that "the political is the > personal"; and i believe that. it all comes down to what each of us > does in our own lives. our beliefs inform our actions (or lack > thereof). all of these armies that support brutal regimes or perpetrate > unspeakable atrocities must be made up of people who believe that what > they are doing is right. or else, we're taking sociopathology on a > massive scale; which seems just as likely. i don't think the ends ever I vote widespread sociopathology. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:37:48 -0600 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Conservapedia Parody? - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:33:37 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: re: oscar time did anyone else have audio problems during the broadcast? i guess it was that storm. we ended up scrolling through most of it; and still had to go to bed before it was over. i'm happy for marty; but i really hate it when the academy doesn't spread the love around. anyway, i've only seen one of the movies that was nominated. >>>I am still pissed off at Darren Aronofsky for "Requiem for a Dream." God, I hated that movie and people talk about it like it was God's gift to...shit I don't even know but they act like it was quite brilliant at whatever they thought it was brilliant about.<<< at showing the downward spiral of addiction? >>>my Mom just rented "After Hours" and we had fun watching up - it held up fairly well. <<< my favorite of marty's flicks. > > I blame Sufjan Stevens.<< easy target. i dig the sufjan. it's sad when the hyperbole actually ruins a good artist for some people. i will say that i bought the christmas album (tried to order it for christmas but asthmatic kitty must have had a glut of orders because it was cancelled) for my wife and so now we have yet to hear it all. maybe next december. >> And, uh, what exactly was Grandpa teaching the kid behind closed doors? > >It was a bit icky, yes, but nowhere near as icky as the rest of the >Junior Pageant scene. The ending was a little dance-movie formulaic "we >lost but we won".<< haven't seen too many dance movies. it's sort of the reverse of 'saturday night fever'. anyway, should anyone be suprised that arkin's character would come up with that? even more "icky" is the way the rest of the girls didn't look like girls at all. it was like tryouts for the pussycat dolls. >>"Okay, this is funny. I blame Marc Shaiman. I am also a fan of the >>aggressive objectification of Helen Mirren. It cracks me up, and it's >>just." > >Hopefully he's being serious. Helen's a babe. < amy remarked, "for an older lady she certainly has an ample bossum." >>If Clint Eastwood were a real man, and a real friend of Ennio Morricone, he would have shot Celine Dion.<< thank the good lord for tivo. at one point during marty's acceptance speech, clint's wife (not realizing that she was on camera) reached over to his crotch. >>I was glad to see Forrest Whitaker win in the Best Actor category plus he gave a nice speech. << it's about time! "through our combined belief we can create a new reality." it really does speak to the connection between artist and artee. ken "the uglier the art, the more it's worth" the kenster - --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:42:20 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: The Lives of Others On 2/27/07, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Feb 2007, ken ostrander wrote: > > > this is a difficult subject. i think that any system is going to be > > corrupt (or corruptable) when humans are involved. both socialism and > > capitalism can be morally bankrupt. for me, the fact that the former at > > leasts claims to be about the people puts it on higher ground than the > > latter which claims to be all about money. politics and religion are > > Some might argue that capitalism is really about individual rights, and > socialism is about the good of the collective, and it's *all* about > people. Capitalism seems concerned only with one particular individual right - the problem is that that right, exercised without reservation or other ethical principle, tends to interfere with many other individual rights. (Of course, part of the issue is what you consider to be a "right" - if indeed you accept the concept of "rights" in the first place.) Structurally, the problem seems to be that much of what people tend to value in society does not seem inherently profit-generating, or supportable within the process of making a profit. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:16:53 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Beyond Belief grutness@slingshot.co.nz says: > The lyrics, are, of course, sublime. I had a conversation with a friend once: Her: I once had this dream that I was talking to Nick Lowe and he was explaining to me exactly what Elvis Costello meant when he said "I don't know why you have to be so cruel to be kind." (silence) Me: But he didn't say that. Or was it that way in the dream? (silence) Me: He doesn't say "I don't know why you have to be so cruel to be kind." He says "I don't know why you have to be so cruel to callous." Then I don't know why but we looked at each other and started laughing like we were high. There's not really a point to that story, but there you have it. xo Lauren, wondering what time it is in New Zealand - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:11:36 +0000 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: Little Hands of Concrete Quoting fegmaniax-digest : > fegmaniax-digest Monday, February 26 2007 Volume 16 : Number 070 > > > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:19:35 +0000 > From: craigie* > Subject: Re: wheel of fortune > It was the show you saw in Boston. > I saw him do this in Edinburgh and Liverpool... there was some suggestion > of song 'fixing' (not that anyone cared much!) > c* > On 23/02/07, Jill Brand wrote: >> Was this the one with the wheel of fortune thingy, or was it a spinning >> pointer, and whatever song got landed on, that's what he did? If it's the >> same, I saw that show at the Orpheum in Boston, and Jules Shear and Aimee >> Mann were the wheel (or pointer) spinners. >> Jill * Oh yes, I saw the 'Wheel of Fortune' too. Probably the last Costello show I ever went to. I remember Sean French writing a brilliant column in the New Statesman about how audiences all go crazy for songs from one short period in an artiste's career, and I felt that he was getting towards that stage. I also saw a ropey show at Glastonbury where he played for hours with a beatbox before bringing on the Attractions from behind a sheet and then going on for hours more. I went home in the end to the strains of one of the songs from 'Blood and Chocolate'. [Of course none of this is connected with the fact that my ex-girlfriend left with all the Costello LPs (sic) under her arm...] Best shows I ever saw were the first time I saw him on the Stiffs Live Stiffs tour, the Dominion 'Armed Forces' concert, and the one where he was supported by Richard Hell and the Voidoids. The 'Almost Blue' show was notable only for the fact that I had never seen James Burton before. He is a legendary name in the UK as having provided the solo on 'Hello Mary Lou' by Ricky Nelson which apparently influenced virtually all those Beck - Page - Clapton - Albert Lee - Richie Blackmore generation of guitar players. > > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:06:18 +0000 > From: craigie* > Subject: Re: guitars that jangle > Eddie Grant's 'Walking On Sunshine' was a different song. wasn't it? > (sings in head) "You're mine, you're mine, oh/ Walking on sunshine" > or something quite similar. > c* * Yes. - - Mike Godwin PS I'm still not quite sure why people don't like Katrina and the Waves 'Walking on Sunshine' (mind you, I'm in a Tony Burrows phase...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:45:26 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Conservapedia Steve Schiavo says: > Parody? They seem serious: http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia It says it was started by an "advanced" group of home-schooled kids. But it's not like it's something actually useful to the average person like: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:09:46 -0800 From: "Jason Brown" Subject: Re: Conservapedia On 2/27/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > Steve Schiavo says: > > Parody? > > They seem serious: > http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia My favorite part is their anger about the use of non-American spellings on wikipedia. where their arguments amount to "cause America is better". While the site is frighteningly real, I really hope the Cactus article is someones idea of parody. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:32:47 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: autographs and food On 2/26/07, ken ostrander wrote: > > my daughter turns up her nose at just about any meat we give her with a > look that seems to say, "this smells like a dead animal!" A lot of kids, girls especially, do that... I kinda wonder if it's a function of vegetarianism going increasingly more mainstream, or just a continuation of the sort of anthropomophism of farm animals that's made kids queasy when they find out where "meat comes from" forever (eating bacon = eating Wilbur, or Babe, etc.)... it would be interesting to know if kids express vegetarian tendencies at a greater rate now than, say, ten or twenty years ago. And again, that's girls... I don't know nothin' 'bout boys, except that they smash. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:32:46 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: Happy Birthday Dexter Tenor saxophone great Dexter Gordon was born on this day in 1923. Some may know of him only for his standout performance in the late 80's movie 'Round Midnight. However, Dexter was one of the original bebop tenors in the 40's, disappeared for much of the 50's and came roaring back with many great Blue Note label albums in the 60's. He lived in Europe for most of the decade of the 60's and did not come back to the United States to live until the late 70's. Many jazz giants had to live abroad in France and the Netherlands during the 50's and 60's due to problems getting a cabaret card. Cabaret cards were necessary to in order to perform in NYC, and they were frequently not issued to musicians who had drug problems. MJ Bachman NP The Thin White Duke - Station to Station ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:54:36 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Conservapedia On 2/27/07, Jason Brown wrote: > > > While the site is frighteningly real, I really hope the Cactus article > is someones idea of parody. You guys do know that when I hailed the advent of "Batshit Crazy Tuesdays on Fegmania" a few weeks ago, I was *kidding*, right? The mind boggles... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:57:42 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: I'm Just a Girl... Awhile back, re: Turing Award, Tom Clark says: > I would've guessed that Grace Hopper would have received that at one > time. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper Interesting woman. Pretty funny - she won a "Man-of-the-Year" award** in 1969 (said reward went un-renamed until *1980*) so she must be kick-ass. The article points out that one of my favourite "useful" quotes is said to be often attributed to her: "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission." I had a very smart and rather loopy boss who I learned that quote from. The idea never would have occurred to me on my own. I find another useful quote (or is I guess it's an aphorism) to be "if you want something done, ask a busy person." xo ** well the first one given out even, which makes the name even funnier: << The association has always acknowledged the contributions of prominent professionals within the Information Technology field. Beginning in 1969 with the creation of the annual Computer Sciences Man-of-the-Year Award for outstanding contributions to the information processing industry, DPMA has established a long-standing tradition of honoring IT professionals from every aspect of the industry. This prestigious award was renamed the Distinguished Information Sciences Award in 1980 and is awarded every year at the Annual Meeting of the Members. >> - -from http://www.aitp.org/organization/about/history/history.jsp - --- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:19:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Conservapedia Steve Schiavo wrote: > > > > Parody? > Phyllis Schlafley. Seriously. "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann "So this is what it's come to, these millions of years of evolution, warfare, community-building, women dying in childbirth with hope because their children might achieve more: a video on the Internet of a cat watching a video of a cat on the Internet." -- "Sylvar" . ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:11:54 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #71 I wrote: > > Heh. You somehow manage to mention my two favourite EC songs... The > > "odd structure" of Beyond Belief is its *lack* of structure - at > > least in a traditional song sense. It is a narrative flow rather than > > a traditional verse-chorus. You cannot even tell where the lines end > > and start. I also love the chord change at "crocodile tears" and the > > subtle changes of treatment on the vocals (Listen to the change > > between "nervous tick..." and "...in a very fashionable", for > > instance). The lyrics, are, of course, sublime. Lauren replied: >I was thinking about this song some more and then thought of RH's >"Satellite". It's actually my favourite song of his. I always >thought I liked it because it's so short and I miss it when it's over. > But now that I'm thinking about it, it seems to have a weird >structure that perhaps is not all that different from "Beyond Belief". Hm... not convinced - it seems to have Verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus, half-verse, though the flow between them seems a little odd. I will say though that it is the RH song which to me sounds most like Syd Barrett - are you a Barrett fan? James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:35:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: The Day They Ate Brick http://powerpoplovers.blogspot.com/2007/02/soft-boys-legendary-radar-sessions-1979.html THE SOFT BOYS - THE LEGENDARY RADAR SESSIONS (1979) So, after you download the file, how do you crack it open and get the tracks? "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann "So this is what it's come to, these millions of years of evolution, warfare, community-building, women dying in childbirth with hope because their children might achieve more: a video on the Internet of a cat watching a video of a cat on the Internet." -- "Sylvar" . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:46:01 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #71 James says: > Hm... not convinced - it seems to have Verse, chorus, verse, chorus, > bridge, chorus, half-verse, though the flow between them seems a > little odd. I will say though that it is the RH song which to me > sounds most like Syd Barrett - are you a Barrett fan? For a RH fan, I have been pretty ignorant of Barrett's work. I've had "The Madcap Laughs" for quite awhile, but only recently got "Barrett". I've always liked what I've heard. Are there any particular songs you're thinking of? Probably because of some weird teenage associations, I tend to stay away from bands labelled "psychedelic" (I had a little but long-lasting revolt against music I liked for a time). For a long time, I didn't know Robyn's work got that label, and even when I found that it did, I never quite understood why. The lyrics certainly seem based in psychedelia, but I think musically I just don't hear things as other people seem to. Another label that I don't really get is "paisley underground." The Dream Syndicate in particular seems like a fairly straightforward guitar rock band. I'm not sure what is either paisley or underground about them. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #72 *******************************