From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #53 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, February 17 2007 Volume 16 : Number 053 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Wikipedia and infinity ["natalie jacobs" ] Re: Wikipedia and infinity ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] so you want to learn how to paraglide? ["Michael Wells" ] introducing the book video [Jill Brand ] Re: Wikipedia and infinity [Tom Clark ] Re: Viv's New Favorite Ice Cream [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: allmusic.com mention [kevin ] coincidence? You be the judge... [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: Viv's New Favorite Ice Cream ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Wikipedia and infinity ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Wikipedia and infinity ["vivien lyon" ] Re: allmusic.com mention ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Reap [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Reap ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Song similarities [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: allmusic.com mention ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Song similarities [2fs ] Robyn television DVDs now seeded ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: John Cale's Caribbean Sunset [2fs ] Re: Song similarities [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Robyn television DVDs now seeded ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:14:39 -0600 From: "natalie jacobs" Subject: Wikipedia and infinity > So, yeah, there are a really large number of irrationals. One of the big > infinities. OK, now here's a question - is infinity considered a number? I'm inclined to think that the structure of Wikipedia makes it far more > reliable than most people would think - with the exception of articles on > current issues of controversy (which are prone to vandalism). The article on left-handers I cited did, in fact, have citations, which lends it a bit more veracity in my eyes - except that they were all print rather than online citations, so I couldn't check on whether they were real or not. I personally haven't caught any glaring errors on Wikipedia, but on the other hand, I only use it for stuff I don't know much about. I have found some vaguely amusing bits of vandalism, as in the article on Gregor Mendel where it said that he was a stupid monk who was obsessed with peas, and in an article about a guitar effects company called Analogman, which also happens to be the handle of a particularly prolific and weird Wilco message board member. ("Historians contend that Analogman's great-great-grandfather invented the Murphy Bed. His great-uncle was Spiro Agnew.") In both cases, the vandalism was deleted within a few days. n. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:43:59 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Wikipedia and infinity Hi Fegs, natalie jacobs says: > OK, now here's a question - is infinity considered a number? I would say to some extent, but there is an additional issue in certain areas mathematics which care that some infinities are bigger than others (after many years, I still get thrilled at this concept). Georg Cantor developed this concept within set theory. For example, the number of natural numbers (1,2,3,et.al) which is infinite is still less than the number of real numbers. But for the most part, e.g. doing calculus, I just treat infinity as sort of like any other number . Well, it is more like 0 in the sense that it does have special properties. Best be careful and check the assumptions and calculations twice because 0 and infinity are troublemakers. But my point is that dealing with infinity in calculus is par for the course, while in set theory it becomes more of an issue. I'm sure Jeme could clarify this more. I am not meaning to be too technical, just speaking as someone who has been through a lot of math. > I'm inclined to think that the structure of Wikipedia makes it far more > > reliable than most people would think - with the exception of articles on > > current issues of controversy (which are prone to vandalism). I read somewhere about people seriously recommending disclaimers on wikipedia pages. This seemed funny because it is, after all, the internet. Does woj's site have a disclaimer? Really, now. Will eventually people's blogs have to carry such disclaimers? Speaking of disclaimers, check out Sun's disclaimer on a tic-tac-toe game http://rintintin.colorado.edu/~epperson/Java/TicTacToe.java e.g. << * THIS SOFTWARE IS NOT DESIGNED OR INTENDED FOR USE OR RESALE AS ON-LINE * CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE * PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT * NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, DIRECT LIFE * SUPPORT MACHINES, OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS, IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE * SOFTWARE COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE * PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE ("HIGH RISK ACTIVITIES"). SUN * SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY OF FITNESS FOR * HIGH RISK ACTIVITIES. >> It's tic-tac-toe not nuclear war. Oh, wait, that reminds me of a movie... xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:49:15 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: so you want to learn how to paraglide? How to view a thunderstorm from the inside out: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17185299/ Holy shit. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:57:37 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Wikipedia and infinity On Fri, 16 Feb 2007, natalie jacobs wrote: >> So, yeah, there are a really large number of irrationals. One of the big >> infinities. > > OK, now here's a question - is infinity considered a number? The short answer is "Yes". The long answer is "Sort of". A really long answer: There are transfinite ordinal and cardinal numbers. The word "transfinite" refers to a number that is bigger than any finite number. Ordinal numbers are used for ordering -- "4 down the list"; cardinal numbers are used for describing the size of sets of things -- "6 apples". I'll give you an idea of what transfinite cardinal numbers are all about. The set of all counting numbers {1,2,3,...} has a certain number of things in it. That seems obvious. But also, any finite number you can imagine has a successor in that set. That is to say, if you think of the biggest finite number you can, you can find a finite number a little bit bigger that is in that list. We also know that for any number in that list, there are exactly that many elements in the set less than or equal to the number you picked. And, of course, there's more above that. So the number of things in the list must be transfinite. We can also pretty easily see that any set of things can be "counted" by picking the things out of the set one at a time and assigning a number to them; 1, 2, 3, .... If we run out of things, we've got a finite set. If we don't run out of things, we can keep counting, so there are at least as many things in the set as there are counting numbers. By this reasoning, we say that the number of counting numbers is the smallest transfinite number -- the littlest infinity. We call that number Aleph-null (or aleph zero, written as the Hebrew letter with a zero subscript). But you might ask, "How do you have different sizes of infinity?" or "What does it mean to have MORE than you can count? Can't you just keep counting?" And those would be really good questions. The argument goes something like this: Some sets are SO BIG that when you try to put them in order to count them, you can't possibly get them all. There's no way to order them so that you can be assured that every single one of them got assigned a counting number. And since these things aren't countable, we say that there are more of them than there are counting numbers. It's pretty easy to prove that there are exactly as many integers (positive and negative whole numbers and zero) as there are counting numbers (we call them "natural numbers") and a slightly more complex proof can be written to show that there are the same number of rational numbers (fractions and stuff) as counting numbers. The really interesting part comes when you try to count all real numbers. It turns out, you can't do it. They can't be put into any order that would align them with counting numbers, so they can't be counted. Hence, there are more of them than there are counting numbers and so the number of real numbers is a bigger transfinite number than aleph-null. You know that lazy eight you draw to mean "infinity"? Well, that's what a mathematician might call "absolute infinity" or "the power of the continuum" (depending on your philosophy -- some would say that the continuum is NOT absolute infinite because absolute infinity is God). In set theory, we would write that as a little "c", but most of the time we're going to use the lazy eight. Generally, we say that the number of real numbers is that thing. As big as it gets. There's a whole big deal about the "continuum hypothesis" which theorizes that there's no cardinal number in between aleph-naught and the continuum. Interestingly, this hypothesis has been shown to be impossible to disprove (Godel) and also impossible to prove (Cohen). This says more about our set theory axioms than it does about God, unfortunately. Ordinal numbers are really similar, but the transfinite arithmetic is a bit different and there are more of them. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:15:25 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: introducing the book video Maybe this is old hat, but I thought it was hilarious. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRjVeRbhtRU Jill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:25:31 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Wikipedia and infinity On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:14 PM, natalie jacobs wrote: > OK, now here's a question - is infinity considered a number? Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:29:27 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: Viv's New Favorite Ice Cream >Primary and middle-school teachers (all of whom teach mathematics to >children) were asked how many irrational numbers there are. > >The MODAL answer was 5. That's right. More people answered "5" than any >other answer. I suspect that - as long as at least one teacher was clued up - finding the average could be tricky, no? > Strangely enough I have yet to have a reason to tell Tom Clark to fuck > off, > but what the hell. Here goes in Mandarin: "Cao ni, Tom Clark!" given that I'm trying to learn Mandarin at the moment, that could be quite useful. Or not. Heey... this is becoming more like the Fegmaniax of old! Current topics for discussion include conjoined twins, transcendental numbers, ice cream flavours, Bacon numbers, translating "FYTC", and harmonic similarities between 60s pop songs. All we need now is an attack from the Surreal Posse and a recipe for braised placenta and things will be completely back to abnormal. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:37:49 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: allmusic.com mention >Primal Scream, Screamadelica I suspect that anybody who likes RobH (at least in his more psych/late Beatlesy moments) would enjoy Screamadelica. It's sort of like a hip-hop mashup of 1969 Stones, Traffic, Beatles on acid, very peaceful for the most part, and long on melody. Although as a caveat there are a couple of Yoko samples in there somewhere. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 11:33:59 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: coincidence? You be the judge... ...and today, by weird coincidence, the flags mailing list I'm on included a message on the flag of the Northern Marada Brigade, a Christian group from Lebanon. The flag is light green. In the centre is a dark green compass sircle (a circle with notches at every 90 degrees and a large N at the top), and in the centre is a dark green Pi. It's the first flag I've ever seen featuring Pi. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 18:11:18 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Viv's New Favorite Ice Cream Hi Fegs, Okay, so I just happened to have to go to Trader Joe's anyway so I needed to give this mochi another try (green tea flavour, of course.) Capuchin says: > On Thu, 15 Feb 2007, Tom Clark wrote: > > I've always assumed the membrane is the mochi - thin glutenous rice > > cake, and the chalky substance is powdered sugar. > > I think it's just rice powder, not powdered sugar (which would turn sticky > when wet, thus defeating the purpose of a powdery coating on the rice > cake). I'm having a bit of trouble with this membrane business. Part of the problem may be that I assumed that as with most frozen desserts, it would be best to try it when I got home from errands and it had softened a bit. I think that was a mistake. It kind of like eating a partial-formed egg. From another planet. > I recall Jim Davies ate one in my kitchen and said, "This is like alien > food." And it is. Did he mean alien food as in alien food that Klingons would sit down to eat or alien food as in "this is not life as we know it" but let's have it for dinner. Now I realize there is an intersection with these two categories, but honestly, the mochi ball seemed a bit too alive for my tastes since each time I went near its membrane with a fork, it seemed to move around and I think I caught a glimpse of its reformulating its structure in the meantime.. Obviously I will try again with hopefully better results after they are re-frozen once again. Unless the pods manage escape my freezer for the mother ship. Oh, I noticed TJ's has a green-tea gelatto but those dummies have poisoned it with strips of chocolate. I think it's supposed to have a tiramisu(sp?)-feel to it or maybe it actually is a form of tiramisu(sp?). Keep it simple, sweethearts. xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 18:12:21 -0500 From: "Stewart Russell" Subject: Re: Wikipedia and infinity So you're saying that Chuck counted to four? If there are aleph null natural numbers, and (aleph null + 1) whole numbers, we've got two infinities which we can subtract and get a finite number. ow, I think. Now for some real brain-melting fun, I'll ponder the Collatz Theorem for a bit. Stewart On 16/02/07, Tom Clark wrote: > On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:14 PM, natalie jacobs wrote: > > > OK, now here's a question - is infinity considered a number? > > Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice. > > -tc > - -- http://scruss.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 18:31:24 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Wikipedia and infinity Hi Fegs, Stewart Russell says: > If there are aleph null natural numbers, and (aleph null + 1) whole > numbers, we've got two infinities which we can subtract and get a > finite number. ow, I think. (aleph null + 1) is equal to aleph null. In fact, there's no number you could add to aleph null and have the result be bigger. It's still aleph null. Unless you are sneaky and add that other bigger infinity. Oh, maybe this a Chuck Norris joke that flew past me. David Foster Wallace wrote a book about Georg Cantor and called it "Infinity and More" which makes me giggle everytime I think about it (i.e. the title, not the book) since Georg Cantor did find that some things are, inded, bigger than infinity. xo - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:53:58 -0800 From: "vivien lyon" Subject: Re: Wikipedia and infinity I gots nothin' to say about infinity. On 2/16/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > David Foster Wallace wrote a book about Georg Cantor and called it > "Infinity and More" which makes me giggle everytime I think about it > (i.e. the title, not the book) since Georg Cantor did find that some > things are, inded, bigger than infinity. Daniel Dennett's "Consciousness Explained" makes me laugh every time I see it on my bookshelf. "Oh really?" I think sarcastically. "The whole thing explained, eh? That's a neat trick." Which is not to say the book isn't good- it is. It just doesn't actually explain consciousness- or, rather, it doesn't explain the biggest question regarding consciousness, which is "what the fuck is it?" It focuses primarily on phenomenology, and refutes the Cartesian concept of a theater of the mind to which all sensory input arrive to stage a little reality play. Which is all well and good, but... not really an explanation, more like a redefinition. I'm with whoever it was on this list who believes that there is much more to the universe, existence, etc. than can ever be comprehended by our limited little brains. That being said, I'm not even going to try to comprehend it and instead am going to go back to reading Wikipedia. V. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:03:54 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: allmusic.com mention Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > It's good I don't make the lists > because it would be just RH and Suede albums. Suede? I remember they had one song on the radio, but I don't think they'd ever make an essential list. It also looks like this list stopped mid-90s, and is compiled by a devoted anti-C86er. Also, where are Lloyd, Teenage Fanclub, ... ? But you have to keep the primal scream. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:31:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Reap Saw it on TV (appropriately enough), so I don't have a link, but Robert Adler, one of the inventors of the television remote control. "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 22:22:18 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Reap Jeff Dwarf wrote: > > Robert Adler, one of the inventors of the television remote control. He's being buried under huge sofa cushions, I hope ... Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:47:49 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: Song similarities The business about "Up on the roof" struck a definite chord with me (if you'll pardoin the pun). I quite often find pairs of songs segueing into each other in my brain. I also have a nasty tendency to start playing "Bridge over Troubled Water" on the piano and have it develop into either "Let it be" or "He ain't heavy He's my brother" without me realising it. Part of the time it's probably because of the same songwriters; other times it will be shared influences. Occasionally, a similar guitar break will trip it (Dave Gilmour is responsible for one of these annoying "ear-segues" - between Pete Townshend's "White city fighting" and Roy Harper's "Hope"). Sometimes, of course, it is a more dubious shall we say "borrowing" (Billy bragg's "Ideology" is a fairly obvious rip-off of Bob Dylan). Other times, I can't put my finger on what it is. I even have a list I keep called "Plagiarists we know and love". At the moment, for instance, I have the (to my ear) similar "O Maria" by Beck and "Leather" by Tori Amos fighting it out in my head. Here are a handful of intriguing pairings to contemplate from that list (newer song named first: The Arcade Fire - Neighborhood 2 (Laika) -> Talking Heads - Cities Beck - Fuckin' with my head -> Rolling Stones - The last time Jeff Buckley - Your flesh is so nice -> PJ Harvey - Rid of me Camper van Beethoven - Heart -> Buddy Holly - Heartbeat The Cars - My best friend's girl -> Beatles/Buddy Holly - Words of love Nick Cave - The ship song -> Eric Clapton - Never make me cry Elastica - Waking up -> Stranglers - No more heroes Brian Eno - Taking Tiger Mountain -> Velvet Underground - Lisa says Bob Geldof - A gospel song -> Van Morrison - Northern muse (Solid ground) Gomez - These three sins -> Buffalo Springfield - Pay the price Guided by Voices - Eureka signs -> The Who - Bargain Robyn Hitchcock - I something you -> Velvet Underground - Afterhours Elton John - Sweet painted lady -> Byrds - Citizen Kane King Crimson - Walking on air -> Beatles - Sun king Marilyn Manson - Rock is dead -> David Bowie - Jean Genie Pink Floyd - The gunner's dream -> John Lennon - Isolation Porno for Pyros - Orgasm -> Gerry & the Pacemakers - Ferry cross the Mersey Regurgitator - I wanna be a nudist -> Joe Jackson - Got the time REM - Hope -> Leonard Cohen - Suzanne Secret Machines - Faded lines -> Flaming Lips & The Chemical Brothers - The golden path Shonen Knife - Riding on the rocket -> Who - Boris the spider Slowdive - Spanish air -> King Crimson - Epitaph Stereolab - Perversion -> Eno/Cale - Been there, done that Matthew Sweet - The ugly truth -> Neil Young - Mr. Soul (?) The Who - Did you steal my money? -> The Drifters - On Broadway XTC - Wonderland -> Smokey Robinson - Quiet storm Stomu Yamashita - Memories of Hiroshima -> Pink Floyd - Shine on you crazy diamond You am I - Baby clothes -> David Bowie - Suffragette city You am I - Mr. Milk -> XTC - Senses working overtime Warren Zevon - Carmelita -> Bob Dylan - Desolation Row James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:03:57 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: allmusic.com mention Hi Fegs, Stewart C. Russell says: > Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > > It's good I don't make the lists > > because it would be just RH and Suede albums. > > Suede? I remember they had one song on the radio, but I don't think > they'd ever make an essential list Well, silly, then it's good I don't make the lists. xo Lauren P.S. As an aside, I can see how "Globe of Frogs" might be more "Robyn Hitchcock-ey" so understand that inclusion to some extent, but really - - over "Element of Light" or "Fegmania!" Well, on my essential British alternative rock list, not to worry; they will all be there. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 22:17:48 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Song similarities On 2/16/07, grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > > = > > REM - Hope -> Leonard Cohen - Suzanne I think R.E.M. actually credit Cohen on this one. Anyway, speaking of similar songs, you have to see this: - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:26:21 -0800 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Robyn television DVDs now seeded at . registrations are closed at the moment. i think they open 'em up every few days. you don't need to be registered to download, however. now, if somebody wants to organise a vine or weed, be the first to reply onlist, and i'll get in touch with you after the next digest appears. (or you could cc me the reply.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 22:24:47 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: John Cale's Caribbean Sunset On 2/16/07, kevin wrote: > > being made up in the studio. I've always like the way "Experiment No. 1" > came out; it's about the only thing I can take seriously on Caribbean Sunset > aside from the charming title track. Most of it strikes me as flat and > uninspired - for Cale, anyway. Bless his heart, he's really just a country > boy with the soul of a biker and a good education, and a voice I can listen > to for hours... I rather like that description. I also don't understand people who complain about his voice, which I love. I think it's quite versatile, for one thing: he can deliver a slow, melodic song wonderfully (that Welshness helps), but he can bellow and scream viciously with it. It's got a certain power and rawness to it but not just shouting. Anyway: I'd say "Hungry for Love" and "Where There's a Will" are also pretty good songs. Most of the other songs (that leaves five more) are riff-based - but "The Hunt" achieves a nice intensity, plus I like the piano part on it. I already mentioned "Magazines" as being a good venue for one of Cale's freakouts. I tend to mix up the remaining tracks ("Praetorian Underground" "Villa Albani" and "Model Beirut Recital" - although I can usually remember bits and pieces of each, they tend to run together in my mind). I'd say if Cale had released only the title track, "Hungry," "Will," and one or two other songs as an EP, we'd be remembering it as a pretty strong EP. Or at least I would. Next up: the _Animal Justice_ EP ("Hedda Gabler," "Chicken Shit," cover of "Memphis")... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:35:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Song similarities grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > Here are a handful of intriguing pairings to contemplate from that > list (newer song named first: I have 3 pretty presistent ones: Peter Gabriel "Biko" -> U2 "Mothers of the Disappeared" The Soft Boys "I Wanna Destroy You" -> Nirvana "Territorial Pissings" Nitzer Ebb "Join in the Chant"/Pet Shop Boys "Opportunities" (which goes more back and forth rather than one into the other) "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 00:49:55 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Robyn television DVDs now seeded Hi Fegs, Stacked Crooked says: > now, if somebody wants to organise a vine or weed, be the first to reply > onlist, and i'll get in touch with you after the next digest appears. (or > you could cc me the reply.) I don't know what this vine or weed stuff is, but as an aside, I'd be happy to help out with B&Ps for U.S. folks for this and / or other RH DVDs that have been seeded. Non-U.S. is a bit more dicey because of mailing but still I'd be "kinda happy" to do those too ;) God knows I'm pretty much always near the computer these days. xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 22:42:42 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: Re: conspiratorial number theory >> if we are all connected, then identity is a fantasy. turn on, tune in, and drop out. your >>number is one. reach out and touch someone. it's all about the relationships. > >How closely related do you have to be to someone to count as a degree of >separation away (or zero degrees, or whatever)?< that's a murky one. you could be twins separated at birth and you would be one degree because you shared a womb. separated siblings spawned separately from the same womb would be two degrees if they never came into contact with one another. zero degrees would be conjoined twins. of course, this is all purely physical. certainly, there is a connection between all of us on this list. people feel connected with the folks in movies, books, and songs; or in a story they might get from the news. >> in the united states, we can look at the continuing struggles of >> african and indigent peoples over the past five hundred years. these >> examples of racial oppression are only a part of a larger class >> oppression, man. we have our own refusniks. > >indigenous?< incarcerated indigent indigenous indians inspiring insurrection in intellectual islands of innocently insular individuals >I think that, since the context was "the costs of growth under >capitalism", Ken meant the word he used.< yes. just not in that sentence. my bad. >We don't treat our poor very well at all.< few have. the poor are dehumanized or at best pitied. the idea that such folks are lazy or just plain stupid is pretty common. i like to think that given different circumstances i could be there. sometimes people need help. and very often they don't know how to help themselves. and sometimes it serves the interests of those in power to keep it that way. is it better to hope that some government program is going to give assistance the folks that are being evicted down the street or assist them ourselves? >> the soviet union was so much more than the >> politburo. there was a diverse population of individuals who >> struggled to find their way during that time. hungary and prague are >> vivid illustrations of this. > >True; but of course you could say that about *any* country. (Including >the one that would bring up Godwin's Law.) < israel, right? seriously, though; the point was that the citizenry are not defined by the people who run the country. any country. >Also, I wouldn't be the nerd I >am if I didn't point out that Hungary and Prague were not actually part of >the Soviet Union, just under its power. and the vichy was not part of...oops...um... palestine is not part of israel. they'll soon have their own wall to prove it. occupied territories are not very different from police states. you're right, of course. and anyone can say that they are the father of danni lynn hope. >What gets me is when someone goes >beyond just saying, for example, "seventies music sucks" to a full >discussion of the music of the decade, yet still mentions no specifics. >You start to suspect that the person is operating entirely on vague >impressions and sheer baseless assumption, and doesn't really know what >they're talking about.< just like you cannot legislate taste, you cannot talk someone out of theirs. especially when they are based on closed minded sweeping generalizations. it's hard to imagine that any decade would have nothing to offer anyone musically; but without specifics it's hard to find the chinks in the armor. an extreme opinion is very often indicative of its opposite. ken " 'im 'aanmmgSS 'ahoot'i' " the kenster - --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #53 *******************************