From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #40 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, February 8 2007 Volume 16 : Number 040 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: science, muck, and algebra ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Re: Zappa, Kaukonen, Casady [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: science, muck, and algebra [2fs ] Re: In hopes of reigniting the Mucky/Lucky debate [2fs ] In No Duh News Today... ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] politrical link mon, na fegmusic dreads, da bloodclat ina babylon [great ] RE: politrical link mon, na fegmusic dreads, da bloodclat ina babylon ["] Re: In No Duh News Today... [Rex ] the truth is framed with lies [ken ostrander ] Re: Attn Yankee fegs [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: the truth is framed with lies [Benjamin Lukoff ] REAP [Tom Clark ] reap [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: the truth is framed with lies [Rex ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:28:50 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: science, muck, and algebra Hi List, Well, no science or muck, a little algebra. Just to keep alive a non-guitar thread (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!) I was looking for a specific quote by Betrand Russell. I couldn't find the one I was looking for, but this guy is a riot (I have no idea why smart + observant = funny to me, but it usually does.) And hey, a fine mathematician to boot. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/bertrand_russell.html e.g.: "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way. Persecution is used in theology, not in arithmetic." "The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it. "One should respect public opinion insofar as is necessary to avoid starvation and keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny." and so on. Just in case you feel like updating your signature file. xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 15:27:13 -0800 From: "vivien lyon" Subject: Re: science, muck, and algebra From an amazing New Yorker article on C.S. Lewis, Christianity and Narnia: "An old Oxford tradition claims that Bertrand Russell, on being asked why his concerns had turned so dramatically away from academic philosophy, replied, with great dignity, "Because I discovered fucking." " Now that's a quote! (even if it's only a sentence fragment and lacks zest without context) Here's the url for the article- I've re-read it many times, it's really lovely. http://www.newyorker.com/printables/critics/051121crat_atlarge On 2/7/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > Hi List, > > Well, no science or muck, a little algebra. Just to keep alive a > non-guitar thread (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!) > > I was looking for a specific quote by Betrand Russell. I couldn't > find the one I was looking for, but this guy is a riot (I have no idea > why smart + observant = funny to me, but it usually does.) And hey, a > fine mathematician to boot. > > http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/bertrand_russell.html > > e.g.: > > "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which > there is no good evidence either way. Persecution is used in theology, > not in arithmetic." > > "The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as not > to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that > no one will believe it. > > "One should respect public opinion insofar as is necessary to avoid > starvation and keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond this > is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny." > > and so on. > > Just in case you feel like updating your signature file. > > xo > Lauren > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." > > - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:22:27 +0000 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: Zappa, Kaukonen, Casady Quoting fegmaniax-digest : > I also tend to like juvenile humor more in narrative forms (where it's part > of a singular, unfolding experience, like a movie or a South Park episode) > than in a song, where shock value (or obvious jokes of any stripe) seem to > diminish with each listen, and there'd better be something more there if I'm > gonna want to come back to it-- this again being something at which Robyn > excels. > - -Rex "My Guitar Wants to Hug Your Mama" Broome * Sorry, there are many lapses of taste which I am prepared to overlook with Zappa, but his loathesome behaviour over the 'Bat Chain Puller' tapes was unforgiveable. How could he be so mean to a childhood friend? Dave: I also highly recommend the Cream reunion dvd, I think these guys are > playing better now than they did in 68, they seem to be listening > more to each other and of course although the fire of youth has > abated somewhat, the wealth of experience they now have has improved > the interplay immensely . Of course the prices of their tickets are > obscene and its our fault for paying such inflated prices, if we > continue to cough up 300$ for front row seats then these bods will > continue to con the money out of us ! * My rich pal Ben forked out for seats to the Albert Hall, and I really enjoyed seeing them there for the first time since '68, but I really didn't approve of Clapton playing a Strat, or them not attempting any numbers other than the old songbook ... fascinating interview somewhere with Baker saying that Bruce lost his rag after one of the Madison Square shows and that consequently he (GB) was never planning to play with him (JB) ever again. I think he first said that when he threw Bruce out of the Graham Bond Organisation in the mid-60s. Rex asks: I love Jorma's work on that early Airplane stuff... but I get confused > about which strands of the Airplane fragmentation featured him and have tended > to suspect it might've been more pedestrian material. Was he in Hot Tuna or > something? * Yes indeed. I mentioned Hot Tuna as being the most lively band at the 1970 Bath Festival amidst a huge amount of competition, including Zappa, the Floyd, Santana, Johnny Winter, Jerry Goodman and Zeppelin. Personnel were Kaukonen and Casady and I can't remember whether Spencer Dryden was still with them, or whether it was Joey Barbata. Electrifying level of on-stage communication! Imagine my surprise when I rushed out to buy an album and was presented with a collection of acoustic folk blues numbers apparently recorded in a bar... > Would any of those bands do anything for me, as a guy for whom > most roots explorations are kinda dull compared to the real thing, and who > values songwriting at least as much as playing? * In that case, my advice is stick to 'When I was a boy I watched the wolves' / 'Sketches of China' on the barmy Kantner albums (see Michael Bachman's post below). > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 13:32:49 -0500 > From: "Bachman, Michael" > Subject: RE: zappa as all round general god figure and other geetar musings > To bad the Airplane went downhill so fast after 1969's Volunteers album. > I though Jorma > was at his peak on Volunteers, particularly their take on "Wooden > Ships", where Jorma hits > some real piercing notes. Jack Cassidy and Jorma created Hot Tuna as an > outlet for non-JA > style songs. I never bought any of the HT albums. I don't think Jack or > Jorma ever played > in Jefferson Starship, although not owning any of those albums I could > be wrong on that. > Grace, Paul and Marty were certainly involved though. > Michael B. * I'm sure you're right about Kaukonen and Casady having the sense not to get involved with the Starship. My instinct is that Craig Chaquico was the guitarist on most of those records, but I don't really care enough to check. - - Mike Godwin n.p. Wait till the water turns black ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 21:25:52 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: science, muck, and algebra On 2/7/07, vivien lyon wrote: > > From an amazing New Yorker article on C.S. Lewis, Christianity and Narnia: > > "An old Oxford tradition claims that Bertrand Russell, on being asked why > his concerns had turned so dramatically away from academic philosophy, > replied, with great dignity, "Because I discovered fucking." " > > Now that's a quote! > (even if it's only a sentence fragment and lacks zest without context) > > Here's the url for the article- I've re-read it many times, it's really > lovely. > > http://www.newyorker.com/printables/critics/051121crat_atlarge Intriguing article. Parts reminded me of the discussion here last week about science vs. (for lack of better word at hand) imagination (and the different ways each can be a misprision for the other). - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 22:01:08 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: In hopes of reigniting the Mucky/Lucky debate On 2/7/07, Rex wrote: > > The Tom Verlaine mentions of yesterday led me to this page featuring not > only Fegmusic and a version of "Friction", but a quite nice cover of > "Queen > of Eyes" as well. > > http://www.thejennifers.com/covers.html Two URLs for those mp3s need hacking: the Cleaners from Venus link accidentally has the whole URL for the Television track appended to it, and the "Good Morning Starshine" link is just wrong. I tried the same artist/title format as the other titles for that one - it worked. Here are the corrected links: < http://www.thejennifers.com/The_Jennifers_-_Illya_Kuryakin_Looked_At_Me.mp3.mp3 > - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 22:01:59 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: In hopes of reigniting the Mucky/Lucky debate D'oh! > > Here are the [corrected] corrected links: > > < > http://www.thejennifers.com/The_Jennifers_-_Illya_Kuryakin_Looked_At_Me.mp3 > > > -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:19:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Reap Joe Hunter, Funk Brother/Pianist http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/news/2007/2/5/Motown_Pianist_Joe_Hunter_Dies#40963 "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 04:43:27 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: In No Duh News Today... Hi List, http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197004221 "Bloggers Rail Against Proposed N.Y. iPod Fine"...who would have guessed? xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 21:04:56 +1030 From: great white shark Subject: politrical link mon, na fegmusic dreads, da bloodclat ina babylon fegs who want to improve their knowledge of US policy can hear some interesting stuff here http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/ Ambassador Chas Freeman on America's 'Diplomacy-Free' Foreign Policy Chas Freeman has had an extrordinary career in the American Foreign Service - including acting as principal interpreter during Nixon's ground-breaking visit to China, being US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War, and serving as Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs during the first years of the Clinton Administration. real audio or windoze media , learn just how much the REAL arms budget is- you thought 440 billions, think again ! almost double that ! and all sorts of background on Bin Laden and the general failure of diplomacy these past years . Phil Adams is a left leaning host who is also very funny , lots of people outside oz listen in on podcast or live audio,as its so informative - its a top show ! der commander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:42:08 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: politrical link mon, na fegmusic dreads, da bloodclat ina babylon Der kommander wrote: >fegs who want to improve their knowledge of US policy can hear some interesting stuff here http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/ >Ambassador Chas Freeman on America's 'Diplomacy-Free' Foreign Policy >Chas Freeman has had an extrordinary career in the American Foreign Service - including acting as principal interpreter during Nixon's ground-breaking visit to China, being US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War, and serving as Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs during the first years of the Clinton Administration. >real audio or windoze media , learn just how much the REAL arms budget is- you thought 440 billions, think again ! almost double that ! and all sorts of background on Bin Laden and the general failure of diplomacy these past years . Phil Adams is a left leaning host who is also very funny , lots of people outside oz listen in on podcast or live audio,as its so informative - its a top show ! More than a half dozen folks who used to work at the robotics firm that I work at are now at General Dynamics Land Systems. They build the M1 tank and other military vehicles and are very busy these days. I never felt the urge to work there though. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 08:53:25 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: In No Duh News Today... On 2/8/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > Hi List, > > http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197004221 > > "Bloggers Rail Against Proposed N.Y. iPod Fine"...who would have guessed? Next thing you know, hunters will come out against gun control... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:33:28 -0800 (PST) From: ken ostrander Subject: the truth is framed with lies >>The homepage of philosopher Michael Lynch, someone who has spent an awful >>lot of time thinking about reductionism and its inability to illuminate >>truths (mostly for Ken, because I agree with him): http://www.philosophy.uconn.edu/department/lynch/lynch.htm << the existance of many different kinds of truth is what complicates the seemingly simple question of "what is truth?": "one plus one is two", "two wrongs don't make a right", "the beatles were awesome", "vietnam was a mistake". much of what is considered to be true is subjective. even within the relative certainty of mathematics, there are mysteries. the exact value of pi can only be approximated. zero is a quantification for nothing. and then there's numerology. things get murkier as you go from math to politics. spin doctoring and deliberate obfuscation are historically useful mechanisms for hanging on to power. from 'the taming of the shrew' to the 'clear skies initiative' we can see how twisting the truth keeps people confused enough to be corralled. that's why conspiracy theories have a ring of truth to them. the jingoistic party line just doesn't satisfy; but any trying to convince people otherwise would be construed as undermining the uniting and strengthening america by providing appropriate tools required to intercept and obstruct terrorism act. if ridicule doesn't work to dissuade, then prison might. winston smith might be your cellmate. >>> Kiefer's mum is Shirley Douglas, the daughter of Tommy Douglas >>> , who ran the first >>> Socialist government in North America (go Saskatchewan!) and founded the >>> Canadian medicare system. > >>So, uh, that makes him a terrorist? > >pretty far to the left. so, yeah: terrorist. yeah, access to health care for everyone is really scary. at least to the pharmaceutical and insurance companies that direct a lot of medical policy. what would they do if they couldn't gouge the public? i still don't get how 'socialism' came to be such a dirty word; while 'profit' has been cannonized. >the general failure of diplomacy these past years< or rather, the failure to *practice* diplomacy. according to chaz, "diplomacy is the sewer through which runs the scum and the refuse of the political puddle." at least it beats the use of force. it's nice to see that there are some congressfolk that are speaking out against the farce or force in iraq, even if it is five years too late. pre-emptive war is still terrorism. and yet there's this officer who refuses to go back to iraq and may be "dishonorably discharged": http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/06/AR2007020600252.html?nav=hcmodule when can we expect the president to be so discharged? i fail to see the honor in the current military excursion. in military terms, the only honorable discharge seems to come from a weapon. thanks to alberto gonzalez, torture is no longer illegal or conduct unbecoming an officer; but how about conduct unbecoming a human being? and then there are all of those mercenary contractors. who do they answer to? obviously, there are many different ways to look at all of this. who's to say what is "true"? i've never been to iraq or boot camp or a prison. what do i know? what does anyone know except that which we are told? do we really want to know the real truth? and what can any of us do about it (depending on what version of the truth we may choose to believe) anyway? ken "there's a place for everything" the kenster http://anarchopeacenik.blogspot.com/2003/11/truth.html np apples in stereo new magnetic wonder (thick and frothy psychedelic pop to keep the profit mongers away) - --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:35:35 +0000 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: Attn Yankee fegs Those of you who went to Matt Sewell's Oxford gig in 2004 or my gig at the Cross Key in Bath in April 2006 may remember our star bass player, Roger Chivers. Apparently Roger has just contributed 3 tracks to a Joe Meek tribute CD, and I was trying to listen to them at: when I got a message: "We have detected that you are outside of the US. Go away and leave us alone to our colonial self-sufficiency - and no more tea taxes!" - or words to that effect. So if you want to listen to Rog's latest stuff, you can do it but I can't. Bah! - - Mike Godwin, playing old CDs instead... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:00:22 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: the truth is framed with lies On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, ken ostrander wrote: > the existance of many different kinds of truth is what complicates the > seemingly simple question of "what is truth?": "one plus one is two", > "two wrongs don't make a right", "the beatles were awesome", "vietnam > was a mistake". much of what is considered to be true is subjective. Those last three are opinions. The first MUST be true, by definition, if you're using a certain form of mathematics, no? I mean, it all hinges on systems and definitions, but given the definition of one, must not twice one be two? > even within the relative certainty of mathematics, there are > mysteries. the exact value of pi can only be approximated. zero is a > quantification for nothing. and then there's numerology. well--numerology isn't mathematics, though, just like astrology isn't astronomy (though the one did grow out of the other). And though the exact value of pi can only be approximated (i.e., it's irrational), there "is" an exact value, and it can be specified as "the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter in Euclidean geometry." Just like e, which is the limit, as n goes to infinity, of (1+1/n) raised to the n power -- or 1/0! + 1/1! + 1/2! + 1/3! + .... etc. Just 'cause something's irrational doesn't mean it doesn't have a specific definition. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:02:29 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: REAP Anna Nicole Smith, 39 http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/08/anna.nicole.collapses/ index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 10:33:12 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: reap Anna Nicole Smith??? James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:51:39 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: the truth is framed with lies On 2/8/07, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, ken ostrander wrote: > > > the existance of many different kinds of truth is what complicates the > > seemingly simple question of "what is truth?": "one plus one is two", > > "two wrongs don't make a right", "the beatles were awesome", "vietnam > > was a mistake". much of what is considered to be true is subjective. > > Those last three are opinions. The first MUST be true, by definition, if > you're using a certain form of mathematics, no? I mean, it all hinges on > systems and definitions, but given the definition of one, must not twice > one be two? Basically, yeah, but it kinda hinges on your acceptance of those letters going together in sequence to make words which refers to quantities (someone being difficult could make a case that "one" and "one" is in fact "oneone"), and so on and so forth on to using that certain form of mathematics (meaning that someone literate neither in English nor mathematics would be able to state a very meaningful opinion on the truth of the statement). It'd be a silly enterprise to refute the basic idea, but people get up to some silly shit, like saying The Beatles were a mistake, or that Vietnam was awesome.* - -Rex *Of course, in many ways, Vietnam the country may have occasionally been or even now be totally frickin' awesome... there's one I myself can't verify. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #40 *******************************