From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #37 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, February 5 2007 Volume 16 : Number 037 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Green versus Page, round 3 [Steve Schiavo ] Re: what dad's like [Rex ] Re: Reap(er) [djini@voicenet.com] Re: Strange Welsh viola players [Rex ] Re: Reap(er) [Rex ] Re: Someone must care... [craigie* ] hillage ,zappa's and McLaughlin's rock credentials and other guitarists of note [great white shark ] Re: Screw Me, RIAA/Record Companies ["Lauren Elizabeth" ] Reap [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: LZ [Rex ] RE: LZ ["Michael Wells" ] Re: LZ [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: LZ [Rex ] Re: Green versus Page, round 3 [michaeljbachman@comcast.net] RE: LZ [michaeljbachman@comcast.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:35:33 -0600 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: Green versus Page, round 3 On Feb 4, 2007, at 9:13 AM, hssmrg@bath.ac.uk wrote: > Steve Hillage is a wonder, I thought that the Gong show at Bath Pav > in '74 was absolutely great - but surely he's not a rock guitarist? > Same thing applies to McLaughlin and even more so to Francis > Vincent Zappa. Bill Nelson? - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:16:02 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: what dad's like On 2/3/07, Bri N wrote: > > Stewart > (who must've been born without the sports gene) > ------------ > > Aye. Me too. My poor poor dad. He was a basketball coach, That's autobiographical for me, too. Luckily my brother played basketball, and Dad also had a band, so I picked that up. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 12:38:41 -0500 (EST) From: djini@voicenet.com Subject: Re: Reap(er) Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > From this week's New Yorker: > > http://www.cartoonbank.com/product_details.asp?mscssid=2F0VUMTHSLEX9KMC2397H6KGCXHP3X98&sitetype=1&sid=123610&did=4 I am totally addicted to the "write your own caption" feature. The game based on it is also fun, although if you play with kids you inevitably think up hysterically dirty captions you can't use, and with adults everyone has to maintain roughly equivalent levels of drunkeness to find each other funny. Jeanne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 20:18:47 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Strange Welsh viola players On 2/3/07, grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > > > I'm astonished that no-one has mentioned "Paris 1919" as their > favourite yet, it's quieter than most, sure, but it's also a > fantastic album. (Maybe they were put off by Rex's suggestion that it > makes them a "casual Cale fan"). But it may well be my favorite anyway... some things are classics for a reason. Apologies if I made anyone edgy about singing its praises... - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 20:24:33 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: Reap(er) On 2/4/07, Jason Brown wrote: > > On 2/3/07, Tom Clark wrote: > > On Feb 3, 2007, at 6:29 AM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > > 2fs wrote: > > >> New contest: come up with a cartoon suitable to bear the caption > > >> "captionless"... > > > > > > It would certainly improve most of the content of the "funnies" > > > pages in North American newspapers. The Family Circus might > > > actually mean something if it were perpetually captionless. > > > > And Garfield is actually funny if you erase the cat's dialog... > > http://www.truthandbeautybombs.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4997 Even Marmaduke can be redeemed: http://marmadukeexplained.blogspot.com/ I love that one. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:24:56 +0000 From: craigie* Subject: Re: Someone must care... Pilot Episode? is this the extended first episode or the film 'prequel'? I have an excellent VHS (PAL) in NICAM stereo of the BBC2 screening of both series. I can convert to NTSC DVD for those who may be interested... just 'fess up your sins off list and it shall be thine... but not the full thing obviously. There isn't enough time in the world for that conversion... c* On 03/02/07, 2fs wrote: > > On 2/2/07, Lauren Elizabeth wrote: > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Twin-Peaks-Second-Season/dp/B000M3439E/sr=8-1/qid=1170467585/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-8458211-2127155?ie=UTF8&s=dvd > > > Finally! > > I watched a fair amount of Season 2 on VHS a few months back. I > > > enjoyed a great deal, much more than the first time around. I think I > > appreciate Season 2's "over-the-top" nature a bit more now. But man, > > I can't believe some of the shit that Lynch got away with. > > > When I lasted watched Season 2 on VHS some years ago, I was surprised at > how > different it was from my memory. There were definitely some lame moments > (the whole teen-romance thing; the James/Mystery Woman thing - hell, > everything with James) - but those moments were nowhere near as dominant > as > they were in my memory. Part of that was that as broadcast, they were > spread > out over many episodes - and given the way the network was treating the > series at the time (moving it from night to night, pre-empting it > constantly, reducing the screen to half-size for "important" updates on > the > first Gulf War), it was even longer than the equivalent number of weeks. > > > The tapes were complete with commercials. They were pretty amusing to > > see; I was surprised at how dated they were (although 1990 was > > allegedly 17 years ago)...it was back during those great "MCI vs. > > Sprint" holy wars. > > > > Yeah, it's pretty amusing watching ads from years ago. I have a few old > videos like that, complete with ads. I rarely drag them out - nowadays if > I > really want to watch something like that that I have on tape, I'll usually > rent a DVD from Netflix rather than watch a crappy old VHS tape. Of > course, > some things aren't on DVD at all. > > P.S. Did they ever do anything about the pilot episode? Last I heard, > > the only DVD available was a low-quality import. > > > > It's a rights issue: different companies own the rights to the pilot and > to > the rest of the season. I have an import from Hong Kong of the pilot - and > yes, compared to the restored prints used in the Season One DVDs, it looks > pretty miserable - all washed out with mushy sound. > > I certainly hope someone somewhere releases a decently remastered, > cleaned-up edition sometime. > > -- > > ...Jeff Norman, who placed his advance order at Amazon about as soon as he > could click the appropriate buttons after following the link... > > The Architectural Dance Society > http://spanghew.blogspot.com > - -- first things first, but not necessarily in that order... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 17:59:11 +1030 From: great white shark Subject: hillage ,zappa's and McLaughlin's rock credentials and other guitarists of note the mighty Godwin spaketh thus On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:44 AM, fegmaniax-digest wrote: > McLaughlin is in love with jazz and Indian music and Zappa > was a frustrated classical composer (probably true of Blackmore too, > come to think of it)... well all that is true TO AN EXENT . But , I am thinking of Mahavishnu orchestra McLaughlin - most especially on " visions of the emerald beyond" , there is one solo track where he plays the most shreddingly teeth clenching guitar - listen to it on phones, -if you dare ....... he was relentless. also check out his work on Miles "Live Evil". Later. yes he looses his rock influences to a greater degree and became a lot better in my opinion , his work with trilok gurtu is just sublime ..... Zappa to my mind is one of the GREAT rock guitarists, which is one reason I put up with all his silly sex songs and cynicism - yes , he wanted to be a composer, he was influenced by various atonal classical bods, but , when he got down to it, he could solo more meaningfully in rock mode than most and he really enjoyed doing it - listen to Muffin man on "Bongo Fury ", the guitar solo albums, etc - also he had guys like Steve Vai in his band who are pretty full on rock players. I suppose it all gets down to your definition of what constitutes rock guitar , as I listen to a lot of jazz tinged rock music I tend to think of Beck, Hillage , early Mclaughlin and crossover guys like Metheny as being rock players on occasions . Depends on the context. However, if you mostly listen to classic mainstream rock, then by definition most of these guys are not ' rock guitarists" as they step outside the conventions too often. Hillage tended to stray away from his rock roots as his career progressed , he gets in some nice power chords on L on "Hurdy Gurdy Man" and takes a very ' Voodoo Child' sort of solo in the middle and the end of ' all too much " is really killer guitar- soaring top end notes that the best of them would be proud of- he even weaves some punky themes into some of his last guitar albums, ( its fuckin' tragic how he has given up guitar for those poxy synths he favours nowadays )take a listen to ' Getting in Tune " and "Definite Activity " on 'Open' , in addition to funky bass lines he's managing to mix up space rock and bouncy punk/pop themes, bloody great - pity bout the lyrics though...... Tc - gotta agree bout the Pearl Jammers, great guitars , but not a fan overall. I'll have to try out " Ten" sometime on your advice . der kommander ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 13:42:25 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: hillage ,zappa's and McLaughlin's rock credentials and other guitarists of note - --On 5. Februar 2007 17:59:11 +1030 great white shark wrote: > Tc - gotta agree bout the Pearl Jammers, great guitars , but not a > fan overall. I'll have to try out " Ten" sometime on your advice. I prefer "No Code", even though it's generally not rated as highly. "Hail, Hail" is a great song! - -- b. Sebastian Hagedorn b Hagedorn@spinfo.uni-koeln.de b' http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:57:15 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Someone must care... On 2/5/07, craigie* wrote: > > Pilot Episode? > > is this the extended first episode or the film 'prequel'? > The first episode. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:20:26 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth" Subject: Re: Screw Me, RIAA/Record Companies FSThomas says: > An interesting and oddly coherent piece by Courtney Love. Makes me > happy I have zero musical talent and haven't gotten sucked into /that/ > morass. I like that article. I've always found Courtney Love to be very bright and am impressed by what she has to say. And she's funny. Alas, too bad about her "sorta evil" side. xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:27:14 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: RE: LZ Warning - guitar talk! Stony: > You know, at least from my perspective, another reason for their immense popularity was being a Zeppelin fan was kind of like joining a secret society, much like the same mystique and allure that Pink Floyd had over me as a kid This is a really good observation, something I was kind of trying to hit at with the 'generational' comment. LZ was for a kids a few years my senior growing up, for older brothers and their friends in the neighborhood; to be a fan meant you had arrived at a point somewhere other than the confusion of Nixon, Vietnam and sappy 60's music. Chances are you had an 8-track of "Black Sabbath Vol 4" lying around may have been engaged in things other things that weren't generally be approved of, but by and large it wasn't a negative connotation. But the beast did get big and bloated, and I think that's part of why I prefer the next generation of players starting in the early-mid 70's. They have the chops for big 12-bar, arena solos but also economize, don't seem ego-driven and draw from a wider palette. Alex Lifeson (Rush), Buck Dharma (BOC), Larry Carlton, Allan Holdsworth, Steve Lukather...and too a lesser extent guys like Rik Emmett (Triumph) and Nugent solo. I've come to understand that for my tastes, on top of the chops there has to be tone. Great heaping bags of it. Everybody I like has it, sometimes in more or less quantity, but it's always there. Jimmy Page and David Gilmour both had/have great tone (though admittedly Page got a little reedy at times...). MRG, can't spare a mention for either Ronnie Montrose or Robin Trower? Gadzooks! And I know about your affinity for Leslie West. Commander Lang: > I suppose it all gets down to your definition of what constitutes rock guitar , as I listen to a lot of jazz tinged rock music I tend to think of Beck, Hillage , early Mclaughlin and crossover guys like Metheny as being rock players on occasions. What he said. Michael P.s. I saw the Zeppelin plane parked at O'Hare. Never saw the band, but saw the plane! http://www.led-zeppelin.org/reference/index.php?m=starship ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 10:05:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Reap Eric Von Schmidt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Von_Schmidt No word on any liquored up kickers. "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 10:23:38 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: LZ On 2/5/07, Michael Wells wrote: > > Warning - guitar talk! I kinda can't believe that I started this thread, but that's probably because posting about Zep was an uncharacteristic thing for me to do. But it's pretty interesting... I follow almost none of the guitarists everybody's talking about, and I'm a pretty big guitar nerd. I just have kinda shied away from codpiece-rock, so I've followed this parallel world of Thompson, Neil, Lou, Verlaine, Lloyd, Quine, Fripp, Belew, the SY guys, Robyn/Kim, Ribot, Cline, and-- well, that probably gives you the basic idea (altough Hendrix and Townshend are certainly among of "my" guys).. I notice a buncha stuff about my list as opposed the the guys y'all are talking about: 1) Mostly not blues-based. I have a hard time really classing blues-based guitarists because the form has specific limits and my acument only extends to being able to tell when it's being done poorly; I know there are nuances and such that distinguish one great blues player from another, but they are hard for me to hear because it all stayes blues-based. 2) Mostly non-ostentatious in the way they present their playing. I'll avoid the word "unpretentious" since a lot of my list are arty as hell, but they tend not to wear goofy clothes, do "guitar face", or play on cock-rocky material, which kind leads me to: (3) A greater percentage of them seem to be songwriters (lyricists) and singers themselves, a level of depth I seem to favor in my lead guitarists, and (4) They're mostly probably a tier down in technical ability, but a step above in inventiveness. This is a really good observation, something I was kind of trying to hit > at with the 'generational' comment. LZ was for a kids a few years my > senior growing up, for older brothers and their friends in the > neighborhood; to be a fan meant you had arrived at a point somewhere > other than the confusion of Nixon, Vietnam and sappy 60's music. Chances > are you had an 8-track of "Black Sabbath Vol 4" lying around may have > been engaged in things other things that weren't generally be approved > of, but by and large it wasn't a negative connotation. And maybe a generation on, for us post-punkers who found out that, retroactively, we did have a taste for guitar solos after all, that arena-metal was kind of off-limits due to its bloated trappings. Hence, if you went spelunking in the past of rock for guitar heroes, you ended up following players like the ones I listed. (Or real, old, weird blues and folke players, maybe country pickers, but definitely not rawk, although in recent years I've tried from time to time to check myself on this prejudice). Alex Lifeson > (Rush), Buck Dharma (BOC), Larry Carlton, Allan Holdsworth, Steve > Lukather... Lukather-worship puzzles me, though. Most of the rest of these guys I can understand how you could at least listen to their respective bands' music even if it's not my bag, which stuff running the gamut from Rush to Van Halen to Rage most surely isn't, but... who in the living fuck can listen to Toto under any circumstances? I've heard many people cite Lukather as amazingly talented, but I've always been too embarassed to ask them how they know... is it from jazz records on the side, or what? I must be missing something. Then again, the same thing applies to whatsisname from Boston, so maybe a lot more people have the gene that allows them to mute the whole band and listen only to the guitar than I think possible. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:44:22 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: RE: LZ > I've heard many people cite Lukather as amazingly talented, but I've always been too embarassed to ask them how they know... is it from jazz records on the side, or what? http://www.stevelukather.net/Discography.aspx He's probably one of the most talented guitarists there is - Toto just struck me as a way to bay the bills. If you want some unbelievable shredding, check out his "No Substitutions" CD with Larry Carlton. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:53:10 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: LZ I agree 99% with what Rex wrote ... I tend to like and dislike the same guitar players as he and for the same reasons. But: - -- Rex is rumored to have mumbled on 5. Februar 2007 10:23:38 -0800 regarding Re: LZ: > Lukather-worship puzzles me, though. Most of the rest of these guys I can > understand how you could at least listen to their respective bands' music > even if it's not my bag, which stuff running the gamut from Rush to Van > Halen to Rage most surely isn't, but... who in the living fuck can listen > to Toto under any circumstances? "Toto IV" is one of my guilty pleasures. It's basically a nostalgia thing. It was one of the earliest records I got after my initial Scorpions and AC/DC phase. I'm positive that I would absolutely hate it if I hadn't gotten it when I was 14. > I've heard many people cite Lukather as > amazingly talented, but I've always been too embarassed to ask them how > they know... is it from jazz records on the side, or what? The solos on "IV" are icky, but brilliant in their own way. As it is the only record of its kind that I have, I like to listen to it ervy few years or so. I sometimes listen to "Africa" in between, though - I just like that one. :-) > I must be > missing something. Then again, the same thing applies to whatsisname > from Boston, so maybe a lot more people have the gene that allows them to > mute the whole band and listen only to the guitar than I think possible. I only know (and have) "More Than A Feeling". It's really the same thing as with Toto. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://darkstar.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:38:53 -0800 From: Rex Subject: Re: LZ On 2/5/07, Michael Wells wrote: > > > I've heard many people cite Lukather as amazingly talented, but I've > always been too embarassed to ask them how they know... is it from jazz > records on the side, or what? > > > http://www.stevelukather.net/Discography.aspx > > He's probably one of the most talented guitarists there is - Toto just > struck me as a way to bay the bills. If you want some unbelievable > shredding, check out his "No Substitutions" CD with Larry Carlton. > Thank god this is finally being addressed; it has bugged me for ages-- literally since my first guitar lesson (first one I paid for anyhow), but has recently come 'round the bend for me again. A good friend of mine went to high school with Lukather and other future-Totans, but she and most of her friends ended up in perfectly respectable early punk and new wave bands... the kind of folks that the oversimplistic orthodoxy would have starting bands to destroy Toto, not inspired by them. Just goes to show that the cliches are usually a lot less interesting than what actually happened. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 20:12:18 +0000 From: michaeljbachman@comcast.net Subject: Re: Green versus Page, round 3 - -------------- Original message -------------- From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk > > Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 13:48:34 +1030 > > From: great white shark > > Subject: Re: Green vs Page and why the Who Rule all ! > > Fegs > > As it can only really be the oldest relics on the list who have > > actually seen Peter g's Fleetwood Mac and Zeppelin live , I suppose > > I shall have to chime in on this one . I hate to disagree even > > slightly with Mr Godwin , who I respect and admire for his amazing > > recollections of bygone gigs ( with which he has helped me with on my > > www.ukrockfestivals.com web site )but I cannot completely concur with > > his response re master Page. > >> > >> But for a super-whizzo-sonic rock player, Page comes second only to > >> Richie Blackmore. And as an ensemble, LZ set rehearsal and performance > >> standards on to a very high level. > > > > I cannot really agree, in fact I don't think either player really > > hits the heights on shredding rock geetar , aside from them both > > being total pratts ( eg : Pages satanism fetish , vile antics with > > groupies and general wankery on tour- , whilst Blackmore has an > > astonishingly bad wardrobe, frequently refused to do encores if he > > thought the audience hadn't responded appropriately enough to stoke > > his vast ego and he also played 20 minute guitar solos - something > > any heavy guitarist should never be forgiven for doing ) I have > > never felt like grinding rocks with my bare teeth, ripping the heads > > off snakes and drinking their venom or pulling out my own fingernails > > when listening to either gentleman , either on record or in concert - > > which I think a proper heavy rock geetarist should make you want to > > do when they are on top form ..... > > Who does make me want to indulge in these pleasurable activities, > > those of you who have bothered to read this far may well ask ? > > Well , here's a few - Jeff Beck, Tom Morello, John McLaughlin, Foley, > > Hendrix , Townshend ,Steve Hillage and Zappa - all of whom generally > > avoid cliche and know when NOT to play,whilst your average heavy rock > > guitarist usually has no concept that there should be space and > > dynamics in their playing. > > Hendrix set the scene for all the others, but as I said previously was > let down by technological and managerial inadequacies. > > Jeff Beck: Agree totally, but of course his sound was ripped off so > ruthlessly by Pagey that it is hard to hear his originality through > that thick wad of LZ albums. > > Steve Hillage is a wonder, I thought that the Gong show at Bath Pav in > '74 was absolutely great - but surely he's not a rock guitarist? Same > thing applies to McLaughlin and even more so to Francis Vincent Zappa. > Yes, they know how to plug in electric guitars and twiddle away, but I > would have said that Sterling Morrison was more of a rock guitarist > than any of them, and AFAIK nobody has ever accused Sterling of being a > rock player. McLaughlin is in love with jazz and Indian music and Zappa > was a frustrated classical composer (probably true of Blackmore too, > come to think of it)... > > > Always is a dangerous word - Bath is a giant yawn ,yet its supposed > > to be one of Zeps best shows ever - Bonham's solo is ponderous and > > the rock and roll medley boring . Page is average and all is > > predictability, > > * I think I was one of very few people at Bath who agree with that. For > me, Hot Tuna were the liveliest act on the bill (which also included > Zappa, the Floyd, Peter Green and John Mayall, Flock, Santana, Johnny > Winter, the Airplane, the Byrds and Dr John). But the crowd as a whole > were totally behind Zeppelin, who I thought were better the previous > year on the Rec... > > > basically I think the Who blew Zeppelin offstage in > > ALL ways, material, personnel, stage act and ethics and given their > > showing at the Rock Proms recently , they can still do so even though > > Pete and Roger are nearing pension age ! > > der commander > > * Well, we can continue this off-list sometime, dave! > > Who's "Foley"?> And is Tom Morello the guy from Wage from the > > Machine? I can't > quite imagine > > him in such illustrious company... > > ...Jeff Norman > > The Architectural Dance Society > > http://spanghew.blogspot.com > > * I too have no idea who Tom Morello or Foley are. > > > Where I'm from, Zep fanhood was a gateway to liking lager and > > blackcurrant, sporting a dreadful beard, and having a fondness for > > rollups laced with exceptionally low grade hash. > > Stewart > > * Agreed. > > > Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:25:54 +1100 (EST) > > From: Stony > > Subject: LZ/Peter Green's Mac > > Although I have very little first-hand experience with Green's > > Fleetwood Mac, the posts here have intrigued me to go grab some of > > his/their work. IMHO, any guitarist that can rival Page is definitely > > worth checking out. LZ certainly ripped off other artists > > mercilessly, but as I understand it, this is sort of a blues > > tradition, innit? > > As someone who collects Zeppelin albums, CDs, and live shows, I > > can authoritatively state that Zeppelin's massive following was built > > on their explosive live sets, especially the shows before '73. > > Plant's position in the band wasn't really a foregone conclusion in > > the early days and he really sang his ass off in the early days. > > Unfortunately his voice was never the same after the spring of '73 > > when he caught pneumonia hitchhiking to a gig in Northern England > > when their van broke down. If you listen to the available bootlegs > > from throughout their career, you can hear the difference in his > > voice after this happened. > > You know, at least from my perspective, another reason for their > > immense popularity was being a Zeppelin fan was kind of like joining > > a secret society, much like the same mystique and allure that Pink > > Floyd had over me as a kid, or that other English singer/songwriter > > we're all so fond of. And hell, aren't Robyn and John Paul Jones > > neighbors and musical collaborators? > > Can't wait for the Boston Show. I highly doubt it will match my > > first Robyn experience at The Bottom Line in 2003, but one can only > > hope. > > Digging Led Zeppelin in Portland (Maine), > > Stony > > > MRG responds: > Peter Green did himself few favours with his career, notably giving > away his classic Les Paul at one stage, not to mention threatening an > accountant with a gun. His worst mistake in my view was in not firing > Jerry Spencer, whose endless recreations of Elmore James riffs (there > are two) ruin the second album ('Mr Wonderful') and his ego-tripping > performances of 'Great Balls of Fire', 'Like a Tiger', etc etc ruin > most of the later live recordings. But if you just skip these, there > are stunning songs and performances by Green and Kirwan on: > > Shrine Auditorium Live: > > Boston Tea Party: > http://www.amazon.com/Live-Boston-Tea-Party-Pt/dp/B00002CF3U > and Live at the BBC: > > Later PAG period Fleetwood Mac shared various bills with the Grateful Dead, which resulted in FM extending some of their own songs into longer jams. I am not saying that Jeremy Spencer had the talent as a slide guitarist, but imagine if they had shared various bills with the Allman Brothers instead. I wonder if Jeremy would have made the leap to become a better slide guitar player after being inspired by Duane Allman, instead of being stuck playing those two Elmore James riffs to death? Duane certainly inspired many guitar players to go beyond their previous best and become better players (Eric Clapton during the Layla sessions as the most obvious example). Green and Kirwan were already a great twosome, but Spencer playing some Duane inspired slide guitar could have pushed them into the stratosphere. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 21:03:22 +0000 From: michaeljbachman@comcast.net Subject: RE: LZ - -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Michael Wells" > Warning - guitar talk! > > > Stony: > > You know, at least from my perspective, another reason for their > immense popularity was being a Zeppelin fan was kind of like joining a > secret society, much like the same mystique and allure that Pink Floyd > had over me as a kid > > This is a really good observation, something I was kind of trying to hit > at with the 'generational' comment. LZ was for a kids a few years my > senior growing up, for older brothers and their friends in the > neighborhood; to be a fan meant you had arrived at a point somewhere > other than the confusion of Nixon, Vietnam and sappy 60's music. Chances > are you had an 8-track of "Black Sabbath Vol 4" lying around may have > been engaged in things other things that weren't generally be approved > of, but by and large it wasn't a negative connotation. > > But the beast did get big and bloated, and I think that's part of why I > prefer the next generation of players starting in the early-mid 70's. > They have the chops for big 12-bar, arena solos but also economize, > don't seem ego-driven and draw from a wider palette. Alex Lifeson > (Rush), Buck Dharma (BOC), Larry Carlton, Allan Holdsworth, Steve > Lukather...and too a lesser extent guys like Rik Emmett (Triumph) and > Nugent solo. > > I've come to understand that for my tastes, on top of the chops there > has to be tone. Great heaping bags of it. Everybody I like has it, > sometimes in more or less quantity, but it's always there. Jimmy Page > and David Gilmour both had/have great tone (though admittedly Page got a > little reedy at times...). > > MRG, can't spare a mention for either Ronnie Montrose or Robin Trower? > Gadzooks! And I know about your affinity for Leslie West. > > > Commander Lang: > > I suppose it all gets down to your definition of what constitutes > rock guitar , as I listen to a lot of jazz tinged rock music I tend > to think of Beck, Hillage , early Mclaughlin and crossover guys like > Metheny as being rock players on occasions. > > > What he said. > > Michael > You could add Duane Allman to that list, who listened to John Coltrane a lot and added some Coltrane elements into the ABB long jams. Derek Trucks has added that element back to the current ABB. Michael B. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #37 *******************************