From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #8 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, January 11 2007 Volume 16 : Number 008 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Dolls ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: The Big Problem Does Not Equal the Solution. The Solution = Let It Be. [2fs ] Re: The Big Problem [Eb ] Re: The Big Problem Does Not Equal the Solution. The Solution = Let It Be. [Jeff Dwarf ] Time Out ["Gary Sedgwick" ] The Zombies [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: Dolls ["Bri N" ] eleventieth dream sequence from feg digest volume 16 number one ["ken ost] Re: The Big Problem ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: The Big Star Problem [Eb ] Re: The Big Problem [Eb ] Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun (fwd) [Benjamin Lukoff ] 20070111 Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun (fwd) [Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: Dolls On 1/10/07, Shane Apple wrote: > > I'm about 1/2 an inch from leaving the list. I know that would really have > an impact. > > Rex, shut the hell up for a month and then reread all of your posts in the > last week. You're acting like a total jackass, you provoked Eb this time, > and you would be the one I'd like to vote off the island. Would you stick up for Eb's subsequent behavior as a whole lot better? That's some incendiary shit he's slinging. I don't think most people would sit still for it. I mean, getting called insane a lot when a word like "pissed off" would do the trick does grate on a soul. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:29:09 -0800 From: 2fs Subject: Re: The Big Problem Does Not Equal the Solution. The Solution = Let It Be. On 1/10/07, Eb wrote: > > > > Parenthetical note: I had to re-glue the booklet-pocket "flap" of my > Neko CD's digipak...I wonder how many other fans had this problem. At least one. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:39:23 -0800 From: 2fs Subject: Christ. Shaddup. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:43:39 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: The Big Problem Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: >>>> That's a little better. Though you're still hedging your bet with >>>> the implication you have "secondhand information," when you don't >>>> even have that much. At best, you have someone or other feeding >>>> you malicious lies which you're all too eager to swallow. >>> Well, you'd have to frame your response that way >>Now what does THAT mean? >What it says? It "says" nothing, beyond making some vague, sleazeball insinuation that I'm composing a carefully worded rebuttal to avoid disclosing "the truth." A typical sort of tactic for you. > Nobody who went looking for it, which nobody could have > done without you pointing it out, could find it. So you're simultaneously claiming that nobody else could find your page AND that nobody else found your posted text hysterical/ unbalanced, etc. Boy, the first point doesn't do the second point much good, does it? > Again, five lines, meant privately for one person, who was not you. Yeah, you betcha. Well, I'm sure there couldn't be a more discreet method of one-on-one communication than publicly posting on MySpace. >> I don't recall if you posted it or not. It may just be that I was >> looking at the profile of some other Feg, and saw your page linked >> from his. In any case, no "work" of any measurable effort was >> required. And of course, the later return visit was a no-brainer >> because your URL was basically identical to your Feglist posting handle. > Again, who the hell looks for myspace pages by plugging in URL's? You are completely retarded, Rex. Either that, or you have zero understanding of how MySpace works. No "plugging" was involved. >> You deleted all your friend links and any >> "functional" use of the profile, > Because it was of no use to me, and clearly no longer meant for public > consumption. Obviously. Yes, well, obviously, publicly posted material isn't meant for public consumption. I mean, that's a given. - ---------------- >> What a totally feeble dismissal. > > The initial point was feebler. You're taking pride in having posted > something about a three-month old album to a list of ardent fans. > Go, Eb, > Robyn fan deluxe. I can't believe how hilariously petty your objections have become. Now I'm objectionable because I posted about a fresh Best-of-2006 poll which listed a Hitchcock album which isn't "brand-new enough" to please you. Just pathetic, Rex. Paaathetic. Is anyone else still seeing this ridiculous garbage? > Oh, god. See, that's the problem. I can't say *anything*, no > matter how > ludicrous, for fear that you might *somehow* take it seriously. > Wait, do > you actually believe Eddie wants your dick, too? Holy hell, you're > into > you. Completely retarded, Rex. And considering all the traits which you judge as "warning signs" in me, it's pretty funny that you find nothing at all creepy about the lurid sexual imagery which Eddie continually attaches to me. > Tellingly, you thought he was trolling you by disliking a band. Oh, of course he was. Jeme rarely even posts anymore, and even more rarely discusses music. He was motivated by me more than the band. > Okay, let's put this one to bed FOR EVER. I never used the words > "threat to > my children". You've implied it over and over again. If I'm NOT a "threat to your children," there is absolutely no reason for you to repeatedly express concern. There's no gray area here -- either I'm a threat or I'm not. There's no "just a mild threat." > IT WAS A JOKE, NOT A MANIFESTO OFMY LIFE BELIEFS, YOU GLIB, LIFELESS > FUCKTARD. Here is droll, urbane Rex just jovially, dispassionately toying with me again. He's so beyond being upset, you know. No "exploding head" here. Eb np: Big Star/In Space (wow, I wasn't expecting greatness, but this is surprisingly crappy) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:44:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: The Big Problem Does Not Equal the Solution. The Solution = Let It Be. 2fs wrote: > Eb wrote: > > Parenthetical note: I had to re-glue the > > booklet-pocket "flap" of my > > Neko CD's digipak...I wonder how many other fans > > had this problem. > > At least one. Me too. It almost looked like they didn't account for the booklet when they determined the measurements for the cardboard, and the act of putting the booklet in separates the flap. I haven't bothered reglueing it, though I did have to do that with one of the cardboard spooly thingy on _Aluminum Tunes,_ though I did it with an old AOL disc to measure, so that any excess glue wouldn't get on the Stereolab disc and fuck it up. "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:22:48 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: The Big Problem - --On 10. Januar 2007 22:43:39 -0800 Eb wrote: > np: Big Star/In Space (wow, I wasn't expecting greatness, but this is > surprisingly crappy) While I wouldn't go *that* far, I was pretty disappointed as well. I'd still love a chance to seem them live. They played in Belgium last year, but I didn't find anyone to go with me and didn't want to make the trip on my own. I saw Alex Chilton once in a tiny club here in Cologne, either in the late 80s or the early 90s. At the time I wasn't familiar with either his solo career or Big Star, but I was impressed by his skills. At one point he gave guitar lessons to the audience by showing us the tuning to use for Stones songs :-) (Yes, I still read all the messages, although I'm skimming large parts. I certainly could do without the pointless exchanges of insults) - -- b. Sebastian Hagedorn b Hagedorn@spinfo.uni-koeln.de b' http://www.uni-koeln.de/~a0620/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:06:55 -0000 (GMT) From: "Gary Sedgwick" Subject: Time Out Yesterday's London Time Out featured a "10 Things You Didn't Know About Robyn Hitchcock" article, basically an interview with him. I'm sure I've seen some of it before (e.g. how he met Peter Buck), but it did mention that the next Three Kings gig will be Sgt. Pepper. He also talked about coming up with wacky song titles and mentioned (amongst others) "Evil Duck"... haven't heard of this one before?! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:13:37 +0000 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: The Zombies I stupidly failed to go and see the Zombies when they played in nearby Frome a year or two back. But I did catch Colin Blunstone singing with 'The Manfreds' - a loose outfit comprising Paul Jones, Mike d'Abo, Mike Hugg, Tom McGuinness and assorted guests including P P Arnold and Alan Price. He can still sing 'She's Not There' and 'I don't believe in miracles' as well as on the records. Fab, but essentially two-hit wonders. - - Mike Godwin PS P P Arnold sings excellently too. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:48:06 -0800 From: "Bri N" Subject: Re: Dolls I'm impressed with either: A. How much freetime Rex and Eb have! or B. How fast Eb and Rex can type! - -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:11:53 -0500 From: "ken ostrander" Subject: eleventieth dream sequence from feg digest volume 16 number one walking in the element of darkness with huckleberry hound and some pig named wilbur through the witchy woods looking for the music festival, we ran into some giggly 12-year-olds and their socially stunted frat-boy brethren. they were arguing rather heatedly over the relative virtues of weird al yankovic and chamillionaire and didn't notice as we slipped past them. huck chuckled and sang "i'm bringing paxil back" and wilbur mused "i'd like to know where sexy went". "natalie portman took it and buried it in her backyard next to peter sellers' heart", i answered. suddenly, feyd-rautha emerged from the dry ice cloud in doubly-syncronious tattered garb. "welcome to the pleasuredome" he cackled. i remembered once hearing a musak version of the twenty minute frankie classic in a department store. it was a bittersweet rock and roll niggardly tetragrammaton without holly johnson to fill it in. a major contribution to contemporary social and political thought is worth paying top dollar, i thought. "men say that the kinge of spain is making gret preparation" proclaimed ace face as he strummed upon a lute. "gawd! the anti-christ!" blurted huck. "it won't be long now." "whatever turns your crank" wilbur replied. "do you know any sea chanteys?" i asked the stingy with the stringey. i was hoping to impress him with my knowledge of his obscure repertoire. maybe some other three minute turbogeek could figure out the tablature for 'television'; i was too busy trying to figure out at what point between brimstone and treacle pitchfork jumped the shark. "...no one's jamming their transmission" gordon sang, co-opting language for soliloquey and revealing evolution to be revolution stuck in the mud. "let the wild rumpus start!" called huck. just then we found ourselves in a sudden town without pity in the midnight hour. a big grim reaper in a long black limousine pulled in front of the betty ford clinic. "only the special americans come here" he grinned as he spoke. i couldn't tell if he was speaking to us or to wizard and travis leaning on their taxis. "santa claus go straight to the ghetto" sang wibur absentmindedly. "you talkin' to me?" travis grunted. my porcine pal was out on a limb and broke out in a cold sweat and would have fainted if it weren't for the magic rat that bit him. "don't mind him", huck quipped; "he's a latin-canadian american." "one day a real rain will wash all the filth from the streets" bickle muttered. the madcap wizard laughed, "you get a job. you become the job." "will it go 'round in circles?" i asked. "a house is not a motel", huck clucked. sumner pushed past the line outside of the theater and motioned to the doorman that we were with him; and our entire entourage came pouring in, a panther of shadows obscene and unkind. upstairs grizzled sqaulling oriental indian black academics looked down from the fegland spire hoping that demon cathy would slip up one more time so the spanish princess would pull the rug out from under the whole enterprise by taking her ball and gown home, riding a cock horse to banbury cross to chase wild wawa. "we need some other music for uplifting gormandizers" said gary cherone practicing his speech. the reaper hummed 'don't worry be happy' and alec baldwin screamed in disgust, "bobby mcpherin raped my grandmother!" wilbur offered him a kleenex. "for unlawful carnal knowledge?" asked gary. "oh what a lovely pussy you are" mewed goldsting strumming bryan adams' six string made of gopher wood. the spanish princess swooned, stinging wibur with her gently falling curl. "she's hot for teacher" gary giggled. "don't stand so close to me," i replied. "you can get stem cells from cord blood" dr gupta was saying. travis was not amused. "what sort of sleazeball insinuation is that?" he threw him up against the wall and put his finger right in his face; "if you're not with us, you're with the terrorists!" this was inexcusably markesmithy, like when robin hood couldn't help splitting that other guy's arrow to win the contest and the kiss from maid marion despite the fact that the whole thing was a trap set for him by the sheriff of nottingham. wizard put his hand on his shoulder; "he's not worth it. he's just an extremely innocent coin-operated boy." "what a boring little creep", huck whispered; "people will take offense at anything." "some people have big buttons," wilbur groaned as he rubbed his sting. i said back,"turn up the silence." as we slipped onto the elevator, huck laughed out loud. "isn't it strange how saddam liked 'tom & jerry' and apple pie; but pinochet wouldn't touch a hamburger?" wilbur answered with a question, "why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?" "trench warfare is pretty close to provable insanity," i groaned; "a rendevous with stone will leave you bleeding; but death by chardonney is fine." the elevator turned into a train. "jane get me off this crazy thing!" huck shucked. the subway train was called the lightning. "let's go thundering", i croaked. hoot hoot came the curling whistle blow. we saw the crab there as we rode the lightning home. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live Messenger now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:37:10 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: The Big Problem On 1/10/07, Eb wrote: > > Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > >>>> That's a little better. Though you're still hedging your bet with > >>>> the implication you have "secondhand information," when you don't > >>>> even have that much. At best, you have someone or other feeding > >>>> you malicious lies which you're all too eager to swallow. > > >>> Well, you'd have to frame your response that way > > >>Now what does THAT mean? > > >What it says? > > It "says" nothing, beyond making some vague, sleazeball insinuation > that I'm composing a carefully worded rebuttal to avoid disclosing > "the truth." A typical sort of tactic for you. You lost me on that one> > Nobody who went looking for it, which nobody could have > > done without you pointing it out, could find it. > > So you're simultaneously claiming that nobody else could find your > page AND that nobody else found your posted text hysterical/ > unbalanced, etc. Boy, the first point doesn't do the second point > much good, does it? Not following that one either. What text? > Again, five lines, meant privately for one person, who was not you. > > Yeah, you betcha. Well, I'm sure there couldn't be a more discreet > method of one-on-one communication than publicly posting on MySpace. Look, I am way done with this one. How is something that is entirely untraceable to me-- the normal search engine would not find this page based on any query related to me at all, name, nickname, alias, nothing. Only someone who had bookmarked it could find it. > You are completely retarded, Rex. Actually, I'm pretty bright. Either that, or you have zero > understanding of how MySpace works. No "plugging" was involved. So you didn't just try URL's saying www.myspace.com/ (guess at profile name)? I mean, I know *you* didn't, because you'd already bookmarked it, which you should just admit. But honestly, who even starts that process without being pretty damned hardcore to get finding something that's clearly not wanting to be found? Generally one is on the search page and thinks, hey, I wonder if that chick from Chemistry 101 is on here, and entering their name. When nothing shows up, the non-obsessed move on. As insane as you think I am, I've never gone through the hit-and-hope URL method for anyone, and for that matter I've never gone looking for any evidence of you elsewhere online, due primarily to getting more than enough of you on this list. Yes, well, obviously, publicly posted material isn't meant for public > consumption. I mean, that's a given. Assinine. Anonymous material is anonymous. > > > I can't believe how hilariously petty your objections have become. That goes both ways. > > > > Completely retarded, Rex. Quickly wearing out another incendiary insult, are we? And considering all the traits which you > judge as "warning signs" in me, it's pretty funny that you find > nothing at all creepy about the lurid sexual imagery which Eddie > continually attaches to me. That's because Eddie is obviously being funny, whereas you do destructive things that scare real people in real life. > > > You've implied it over and over again. If I'm NOT a "threat to your > children," there is absolutely no reason for you to repeatedly > express concern. There's no gray area here -- either I'm a threat or > I'm not. There's no "just a mild threat." Again, you read hysteria into things that don't contain it. I do not consider you a threat to anyone, and if fact I've never even expressed concern. I just experience a visceral queasiness that you talk about them. So please stop. > IT WAS A JOKE, NOT A MANIFESTO OFMY LIFE BELIEFS, YOU GLIB, LIFELESS > > FUCKTARD. > > Here is droll, urbane Rex just jovially, dispassionately toying with > me again. He's so beyond being upset, you know. No "exploding head" > here. Now that's "retarded". The above yelling is clearly me being rather upset. But the irritation stems from a thunderous incredulity that you willfully misinterpret the least inflamatory, most obviously satirical things as proof positive of raving lunacy. Your head cannot be that thick, and this can only be intentional provocation. And yes, I am very, very tired of it. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:56:18 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: The Big Star Problem Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >> np: Big Star/In Space (wow, I wasn't expecting greatness, but this is >> surprisingly crappy) > > While I wouldn't go *that* far, I was pretty disappointed as well. Well, I'd approximately partition the album as follows: great tracks: 0 good tracks: 0 pretty good tracks: 4 OK tracks: 2 crap tracks: 5 tracks which pain me to know they even exist: 1 > I'd still love a chance to seem them live. I haven't seen them either...I missed a good chance somewhere around 1993 or so, and a second chance hasn't arose beyond a large festival bill. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:59:01 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: The Big Problem Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: >> Nobody who went looking for it, which nobody could have >>> done without you pointing it out, could find it. >> >> So you're simultaneously claiming that nobody else could find your >> page AND that nobody else found your posted text hysterical/ >> unbalanced, etc. Boy, the first point doesn't do the second point >> much good, does it? > > Not following that one either. What text? The text on your ex-MySpace profile, stupid. > Look, I am way done with this one. How is something that is entirely > untraceable to me-- the normal search engine would not find this > page based > on any query related to me at all, name, nickname, alias, nothing. > Only > someone who had bookmarked it could find it. This repeated "point" of yours is bewilderingly nonsensical. "You can't have found my page, so you must have bookmarked it." Uh...how could I bookmark it if I didn't "find" it first? Did a bookmark just descend from the heavens? > I mean, I know *you* didn't, because you'd already bookmarked it, > which you should just admit. Completely retarded, Rex. Boy, it was SUCH a mental chore remembering the URL "www.myspace.com/spottedeagleray." I mean, it was such a total, out-of-the-blue non sequitur which had nothing at all to do with anything else about your online persona. > But honestly, who even starts that process without being > pretty damned hardcore to get finding something that's clearly not > wanting > to be found? How do you continue to fuel these delusions that MySpace pages resist being found? > Assinine [sic]. Anonymous material is anonymous. When material is written by "Spotted Eagle Ray" on MySpace when a "Spotted Eagle Ray" is non-anonymously posting to a mailing list, that material is not "anonymous" to anyone on that mailing list. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:27:06 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun (fwd) I realize I should probably have asked permission to forward the original post to the ANS list...sorry for not doing so. But thought you'd all be interested in the results. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:23:49 +0000 From: Richard Coates Reply-To: American Name Society To: ANS-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun I can confirm that Mark's version of events is accurate for Fijian. Richard Richard Coates Professor of Linguistics School of Languages, Linguistics and Area Studies University of the West of England (Frenchay campus) Bristol BS16 1QY UK e: Richard.Coates@uwe.ac.uk t: +44 (0)117 328 3278 f: +44 (0)117 328 2810 ________________________________ From: American Name Society on behalf of Mark A. Mandel Sent: Wed 10/01/2007 17:49 To: ANS-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun James Dignan provides a tale about typesetters running out of certain letters for Fijian, Tongan, and Samoan. philip matthews provides information about the pronunciation and spelling of those languages and says James's story "is possible". To me the story sounds like a fable. There is a much more reasonable possibility: Do these languages contain the voiced stops /b d g/ anywhere EXCEPT in the combinations /mb/, /nd/, and /ngg/ as in "finger", written "b d q" respectively? If the answer is "no", then the people who developed the writing systems found that the letters "b" and "d" were available to write those combinations, and used them that way. Since the Roman alphabet (as used for English and other European languages) doesn't have a single letter for the sound at the end of "sing", we generally write it "ng". But IF the /ng/ sound is frequent in these languages (which it is) and it's often found without the /g/ sound after it (which it is) and the /g/ sound only occurs in the /ngg/ combination THEN it is reasonable to use the letter "g" for the /ng/ sound and to use some other letter that is not otherwise needed (such as "q") for the /ngg/ combination. - -- Mark A. Mandel Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania >>> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:21:26 +1300 From: James Dignan To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun Jo-SIGH-uh Vor-ENK-eh (as in Canadian "eh", not a schwa) m-by-nee-muh-RAA-muh In case you're wondering, the story is that back in the early days of colonial settlement, all documents in Tonga, Fiji and Samoa were printed by the Fiji Times newspaper. Because so many names contained "m"s and "n"s, they ran out of movablee type o those letters and decided that names with those sounds followed by another consonant would just use the following consonant. Hence words like Voreqe having an unwritten N in the centre. It's also why Tonga used to be spelt Toga and why the international airport in American Samoa is pronounced PANG-oh-pang-oh but spelt Pago Pago. James [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:53:45 +0000 From: philip matthews Subject: 20070109 Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun (fwd) Hullo everyone The story is possible. The letter "g" is pronounced "ng" (as in sing) in Samoan; there is no "n" sound (as in "nice") in Samoan words with a letter "g". And Nadi (in Fiji) is pronounced "na-ndi", and Ba "mba". But there is an error in your comment about "q". The letter "q" occurs in Fijian with two sounds in sequence - "ng" (as in "sing) and "g" as in "goat". So it is more like the "ng" in "finger". So Voreqe should be pronounced "vo-re-ngge". There is no "n" sound in the Fijian "q". Pagopago should be pronounced "pa-ngo-pa-ngo" (with the "ng" as in "sing"). Vowel length is another matter. Phil <<< This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses by McAfee anti-virus software and none were detected This email was independently scanned for viruses by McAfee anti-virus software and none were found ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:27:28 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: 20070111 Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:14:00 +0000 From: philip matthews Reply-To: American Name Society To: ANS-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: 20070111 Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun Hullo again Yes, most of the Polynesian languages and Fijian (Polynesian/Melanesian?) do not use the voiced stops /b d g/, using instead /p t k/ and hence unused Roman alphabet letters can be used for other sounds, e.g. the b d q g and c in Fijian as /mb/, /nd/, /ngg/ (as in finger), as in "sing" and as "th" in "thin". However, there is, I think a bit of a problem. In some areas it is clear from the missionaries' records that they heard /b d g/ and wrote the language with those letters, rather than /p t k/. In the hundred or so years since, such usage has been replaced in the standard written and spoken forms by /p t k/, but not necessarily in colloquial speech in dialects. Phil >From: Richard Coates >Reply-To: American Name Society >To: ANS-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun >Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:23:49 +0000 > >I can confirm that Mark's version of events is accurate for Fijian. > >Richard > >Richard Coates >Professor of Linguistics >School of Languages, Linguistics and Area Studies >University of the West of England (Frenchay campus) >Bristol BS16 1QY >UK > >e: Richard.Coates@uwe.ac.uk >t: +44 (0)117 328 3278 >f: +44 (0)117 328 2810 > > >________________________________ > >From: American Name Society on behalf of Mark A. Mandel >Sent: Wed 10/01/2007 17:49 >To: ANS-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun > > > >James Dignan provides a tale about typesetters running out of certain >letters for Fijian, Tongan, and Samoan. philip matthews provides >information >about the pronunciation and spelling of those languages and says James's >story "is possible". > >To me the story sounds like a fable. There is a much more reasonable >possibility: > >Do these languages contain the voiced stops /b d g/ anywhere EXCEPT in the >combinations /mb/, /nd/, and /ngg/ as in "finger", written "b d q" >respectively? > >If the answer is "no", then the people who developed the writing systems >found that the letters "b" and "d" were available to write those >combinations, and used them that way. > >Since the Roman alphabet (as used for English and other European languages) >doesn't have a single letter for the sound at the end of "sing", we >generally write it "ng". But > >IF > the /ng/ sound is frequent in these languages (which it is) > and it's often found without the /g/ sound after it (which it is) > and the /g/ sound only occurs in the /ngg/ combination > >THEN > it is reasonable to use the letter "g" for the /ng/ sound > and to use some other letter that is not otherwise needed (such as "q") >for >the /ngg/ combination. > > >-- Mark A. Mandel > Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania > > > >>> > >Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:21:26 +1300 >From: James Dignan >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun > >Jo-SIGH-uh >Vor-ENK-eh (as in Canadian "eh", not a schwa) >m-by-nee-muh-RAA-muh > >In case you're wondering, the story is that back in the early days of >colonial settlement, all documents in Tonga, Fiji and Samoa were >printed by the Fiji Times newspaper. Because so many names contained >"m"s and "n"s, they ran out of movablee type o those letters and >decided that names with those sounds followed by another consonant >would just use the following consonant. Hence words like Voreqe >having an unwritten N in the centre. It's also why Tonga used to be >spelt Toga and why the international airport in American Samoa is >pronounced PANG-oh-pang-oh but spelt Pago Pago. > >James > > [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] > >Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:53:45 +0000 >From: philip matthews >Subject: 20070109 Re: pruh-NUN-see-AY-shun (fwd) > >Hullo everyone > >The story is possible. > >The letter "g" is pronounced "ng" (as in sing) in Samoan; there is no "n" >sound (as in "nice") in Samoan words with a letter "g". And Nadi (in Fiji) >is pronounced "na-ndi", and Ba "mba". But there is an error in your comment >about "q". The letter "q" occurs in Fijian with two sounds in sequence - >"ng" (as in "sing) and "g" as in "goat". So it is more like the "ng" in >"finger". So Voreqe should be pronounced "vo-re-ngge". There is no "n" >sound in the Fijian "q". >Pagopago should be pronounced "pa-ngo-pa-ngo" (with the "ng" as in "sing"). > >Vowel length is another matter. > >Phil > ><<< > > >This incoming email to UWE has been independently scanned for viruses by >McAfee anti-virus software and none were detected > > > > >This email was independently scanned for viruses by McAfee anti-virus >software and none were found _________________________________________________________________ Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid=200731 ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #8 ******************************