From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V16 #1 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, January 6 2007 Volume 16 : Number 001 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: the Police ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: *%&$@#!!! [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: *%&$@#!!! [Christopher Gross ] Re: the Police [Jeff Dwarf ] RE: the Police ["Michael Wells" ] Re: the Police [Tom Clark ] Re: the Police [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: *%&$@#!!! [The Great Quail ] Re: the Police [Jeff Dwarf ] etymology [Jill Brand ] Re: etymology [Tom Clark ] Re: *%&$@#!!! ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: the Police [The Great Quail ] Re: the Police [2fs ] Re: the Police [2fs ] Re: niggardly [2fs ] Re: the Police [Eb ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #1 & 1 & 1... [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: niggardly [Marcy Tanter ] more robyn dates, plus interview [HwyCDRrev@aol.com] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #1 [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] reap [Christopher Gross ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #1 ["Stewart C. Russell" ] [Fwd: [RobynHitchcockClub] Robyn + Venus 3 in Brighton last night] [wojbe] admin note [wojbearpig ] Re: reap [Eb ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:27:26 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: the Police On 1/5/07, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > These 20 songs are essential: I think part of it is that the Police were big right before I got into music, so I mostly view them through the prism of later Sting. I actually did briefly love "Dream of the Blue Turtles" during my first two or three months of rock music fandom... can't imagine that now. I kinda rate them along with Duran Duran inasmuch as I can see how they might've seemed post-punky when they first arrived, but if you pick up the thread a few years later, as I did, it's hard to see them in that context, the dilletantism is so obvious, and they feel insincere from the word "go". Those bands just largely exist outside of any musical lineage that interests me, despite being easily identified as "literate" "guitar" "pop". So as to those early tunes: Next To You > So Lonely Canary In A Coalmine Spirits In The Material World These range from quite good to acceptable. > Don't Stand So Close To Me Roxanne Message In A Bottle Have merits but I never need to hear them again. > Can't Stand Losing You Always struck me as condescending on a couple of levels. > Truth Hits Everybody > It's Alright For You > Secret Journey > Darkness > Don't know these very well. Bring On The Night I think I only know this in the live jazz version. Walking On The Moon Kinda dumb, innit? And there was so much better fake-reggae kicking around at the time. De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da > Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic > Synchronicity II > Every Breath You Take > King Of Pain > Wrapped Around Your Finger These all strike me as pretty dreadful. Too... erm, Stingy. Sting-y. Sting-like, Stringy... whatever. The other thing I recall is having tried to warm to a few full-lengths and finding most of the non-singles to be filler. Sometimes really lousy filler... what was that poem about the blow-up doll? - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:33:04 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: *%&$@#!!! On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Christopher Gross wrote: > oppression. Neither way is perfect. But if I was dictator of the Seattle > Public Schools, I would stick with the usage that's more common in > everyday speech. We're looking for a new superintendent--care to apply? :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:42:03 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: *%&$@#!!! On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Christopher Gross wrote: > > > oppression. Neither way is perfect. But if I was dictator of the Seattle > > Public Schools, I would stick with the usage that's more common in > > everyday speech. > > We're looking for a new superintendent--care to apply? :) Superindendent? Psh. It's dictator or nothing for me! - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:40:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: the Police Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > and what about Stewart Copeland's politics? Well, when your parents are both spies.... Actually, I have no idea what Stewart Copeland's politics are. I seem to remember Miles Copeland, when he was on Politically Incorrect a few times after 9/11 and before it was finally cancelled seemed to of the "we need to be aggressive, but we need to understand why people don't like us" too sort of school. But I could be mixing him up with someone else. "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 15:49:21 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: RE: the Police Rex: > In particular, if Andy Summers himself isn't to blame for a dark, dark period in guitar sounds, his chorus pedal must shoulder at least some of the responsibility. Let's clarify - you mean sucky music produced by *other* people due to Andy's influence, rather than that by the Senor Unusual Voicings Himself? If you came to his style post-Police, then I can understand. But when they were at their creative peak (insert argument about when that was) nobody else sounded like that, and it was quite refreshing. Also, that ringing chorus sound was not as omnipresent as it seems now - that's just your memory going batshit. Er, sorry. That's just because some of the songs that have been played to death have it. Ending more and more sentences these days with "it," Michael Ps. GHOST IN THE MACHINE is essential, any way you cut it ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 13:54:59 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: the Police On Jan 5, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Eb wrote: > np: Buzzcocks/Flat-Pack Philosophy (weak) I just got off the phone with Pete Shelley. He's on his way over to go all homosapien on your ass. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:56:00 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: the Police - -- Spotted Eagle Ray is rumored to have mumbled on 5. Januar 2007 13:27:26 -0800 regarding Re: the Police: > On 1/5/07, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >> >> These 20 songs are essential: > > I think part of it is that the Police were big right before I got into > music, I thought we were of similar age (I'm 38 now)? But perhaps you got to it later because of your rural upbringing? "Message In A Bottle" was one of the first rock singles that really caught my attention. Later, maybe '83 thru '86, The Police were one of the bands that the "clique" I belonged to could agree upon. The others were Dire Straits, Chris Rea, U2 and - for some of us - R.E.M. > so I mostly view them through the prism of later Sting. I actually > did briefly love "Dream of the Blue Turtles" during my first two or three > months of rock music fandom... I did too. I even went to the concert :-) > can't imagine that now. I kinda rate them > along with Duran Duran inasmuch as I can see how they might've seemed > post-punky when they first arrived, but if you pick up the thread a few > years later, as I did, it's hard to see them in that context, the > dilletantism is so obvious, Huh? Are you referring to Duran Duran (I have no trouble spotting the dilletantism there!) or to The Police? > and they feel insincere from the word "go". Well, we really believed they were a punk band :-) That goes to show, I suppose. > So as > to > those early tunes: > > Next To You >> So Lonely > > Canary In A Coalmine > > Spirits In The Material World > > These range from quite good to acceptable. "So Lonely" just expressed how we felt, I guess. Not really a very surprising sentiment for white middle-class adolescents, but what are you gonna do? > Message In A Bottle > > Have merits but I never need to hear them again. I don't think I could ever get too much of MIAB. It's the same sentiment as in "So Lonely", I guess ("a 100 million castaways"). >> Can't Stand Losing You > > Always struck me as condescending on a couple of levels. Towards whom? > Bring On The Night > > I think I only know this in the live jazz version. Yeah, many people only know that one. I remember watching the movie, and I think Sting showing his wife give birth was the final straw for me. > Walking On The Moon > > Kinda dumb, innit? Lyrics-wise? Sure. Musically, I don't think so. > And there was so much better fake-reggae kicking > around > at the time. Hm, being a white middle-class guy I definitely *prefered* the fake reggae. But I don't remember the "better" fake reggae. Do you mean stuff like The Specials? Or Elvis Costello? I only discovered him *much* later. > De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da >> Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic >> Synchronicity II >> Every Breath You Take >> King Of Pain >> Wrapped Around Your Finger > > These all strike me as pretty dreadful. Too... erm, Stingy. Sting-y. > Sting-like, Stringy... whatever. I have a thing for "Synchronicity II". I always pair it with The Jam's "Private Hell". The other ones are perhaps too overtly sophisticated for their own good, but I'm fond of them anyway. > The other thing I recall is having tried to warm to a few full-lengths and > finding most of the non-singles to be filler. Yup. There's isn't a single record that's good from start to finish. But Synchronicity consists almost only of singles! > Sometimes really lousy > filler... what was that poem about the blow-up doll? Be My Girl - Sally. Of course as teenagers we saw some value even in that :-) - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://darkstar.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:14:18 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: *%&$@#!!! > Some help, please. Why did they have to take down that definition? It seems > OK to me. Well, I think if you eliminate all specifics, it would be a very good definition of racism: "Racism: The systematic subordination of members of targeted racial groups who have relatively little social power by members of the agent racial group who have relatively more social power. The subordination is supported by the actions of individuals, cultural norms and values, and the institutional structures and practices of society." I think that it's useful for the definition of "racism" to have a social/power component. To speak to Chris' point, though -- I certainly know a few blacks who hold "racist" views, but the fact that they lack a way to institutionalize them seems important enough for there to be some kind of formalized definition that takes into account practice as well as ideology. Maybe "intent" is really the secret word buried within the definition. It gets murky, too, when you factor in culture. For instance, is "BET" racist? Is the Grand Ole Opry? I think no, of course, to either. Cultures should be celebrated by people who are into those cultures, and the rest of us are free to tune in or tune out. - --Quail, who once saw a black dude at a Rush concert, and he KNEW ALL THE WORDS. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:16:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: the Police Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > I have a thing for "Synchronicity II". I always pair > it with The Jam's "Private Hell". I always thought "Synch II" sounded like the most pretentious (in both the good and bad ways) Billy Idol song ever. "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:23:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: etymology I remember once using the expression "paddy wagon" completely innocently (I grew up in the Jewish persons' part of Brooklyn) and being schooled by my friend Maureen on the origin of that expression and its inherent racism. Who knew? And once in Colorado (I lived there while I was in my early 20s), my friend Sally told me that she had "jewed down the car dealer" when she purchased her new car. Her boyfriend, who was not Jewish (or even a Jewish person) but who was from New York, turned a vibrant scarlet and took her aside to explain to her that what she had said wasn't prudent. I was stunned because I had never heard the expression before. As for language nostalgia, I realize that languages change but I regret the loss of regionalisms and regional accents. Boston area accents are melding and disappearing. Most of the people I know here who are my age still have distinct Boston accents, and they are different depending on what part of Boston they are from, but their kids, who are the same ages as my kids (15 and 17), have generic American accents. I also wish that there were people who still spoke like Fred Astaire. Heaven... Yes, I'm on vacation. How the hell do you all write so much and earn a living? Jill P.S. Who here knows what it means when you"hosey" something? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:34:23 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: etymology On Jan 5, 2007, at 2:23 PM, Jill Brand wrote: > As for language nostalgia, I realize that languages change but I > regret the loss of regionalisms and regional accents. Boston area > accents are melding and disappearing. Can I nominate the Philadelphia accent as one to eliminate? Ugh - nails on a blackboard. OTOH, a world full of Fran Drescher voices would be a symphony to me. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:40:32 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: *%&$@#!!! On 1/5/07, The Great Quail wrote: > > > --Quail, who once saw a black dude at a Rush concert, and he KNEW ALL THE > WORDS. I know that guy. He's also gay! True story. SER ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:03:29 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: the Police > Kinda dumb, innit? And there was so much better fake-reggae kicking around > at the time. What exactly is "fake reggae," and how are the Police perpetuators of this...? - --Rasta Quail Vibrations ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:05:31 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: the Police On 1/5/07, Tom Clark wrote: > > On Jan 5, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Eb wrote: > > > np: Buzzcocks/Flat-Pack Philosophy (weak) > > I just got off the phone with Pete Shelley. He's on his way over to > go all homosapien on your ass. Unless you like that sort of thing - in which case he *won't* go all homosapien on your ass. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:12:29 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: the Police On 1/5/07, Michael Wells wrote: > > Rex: > > In particular, if Andy Summers himself isn't to blame for a dark, dark > period in guitar sounds, his chorus pedal must shoulder at least some of > the > responsibility. > > > Let's clarify - you mean sucky music produced by *other* people due to > Andy's influence, rather than that by the Senor Unusual Voicings > Himself? If you came to his style post-Police, then I can understand. > But when they were at their creative peak (insert argument about when > that was) nobody else sounded like that, and it was quite refreshing. The problem I have is that sound (through no fault of Mr. Summers) now sounds terribly dated and interferes with my enjoyment of those records to a degree. Anyway, even though I bought the Police box a few years back (and therefore have all their songs - unless/except they went and dug up some other ones since that set was released), they struck me as essentially a singles band. It's certainly true that most of their albums are all filled with filler - the second and third in particular. As for GITM: I like several songs, but I think they lost something in attempting to fill out their previously rather spare sound. Sometimes, it worked (I still love "Every...Magic") but mostly it just glopped things up. _Synchronicity_ did a better job of managing the fuller sound...but at the expense of overglossy production and the first fullblown signs of Adult-Contemporary-ism. I have no idea what Stewart Copeland's politics are - I know the family history's a bit nasty - but I don't know if Stewart carries on with that. Does anyone actually know and can cite evidence? Cuz, you know, I want to be all PC and burn all their CDs if I disapprove of any band member's politics. Oh wait: burning CDs pollutes the air. O! Such a dilemma! - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 18:03:02 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: niggardly On 1/5/07, Marcy Tanter wrote: > > "He's a Jew teacher" is not really a correct construction. "Jewish" is > the > adjective, "Jew" is the noun. Which doesn't prevent people from saying it. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 16:13:06 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: the Police 2fs wrote: > Plus his music's increasing suckitude. This lute record is an indulgent jackoff but, other than that, I don't think his solo records are getting any worse. If anything, his early solo records have some dated '80s production values which aren't a problem with his newer work. And I'd still take Sting's worst record over anything Rod Stewart has recorded in the last 30 years. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:59:58 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #1 & 1 & 1... Woj... is there any reason the last three digest have all had the same number? (PS - sorry this is going to the entire list, but I can't get at myy normal address books right now...) James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:31:28 -0600 From: Marcy Tanter Subject: Re: niggardly "He's a Jew teacher" is not really a correct construction. "Jewish" is the adjective, "Jew" is the noun. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 00:59:26 EST From: HwyCDRrev@aol.com Subject: more robyn dates, plus interview _http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=155_ (http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=155) robyn fender interview ALSO - more shows - including massachusetts ! rh.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 12:57:20 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #1 >- -- you know how some people are afraid to write the word "god", and so they >write "g-d" instead? but what happens if they *read* the word "god"? It's not "fear" it's "custom". IIRC, it's against the rules to speak the word of ghu in the Jewish faith, hence the hyphen (refer back to the famous Life of Brian stoning scene for historical info). I have a friend who says that when he needs to refer to the Big Guy he simply calls him by his initial - Yod. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:17:44 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: reap Momofuku Ando, 96, inventor of instant noodles, the man who saved countless college students from starvation. ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:25:32 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V16 #1 hssmrg@bath.ac.uk wrote: > > Stewart, how would you pronounce 'dour'? Rhymes with for sure. Catherine rhymes it with glower. > And while we're on the > subject, how do you pronounce Carmen Appice? It's probably peachy, but in general I prefer not to. So what about Josaia Voreqe (Frank) "T'ain't whatcha coup" Bainimarama? Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:23:31 -0500 From: wojbearpig Subject: [Fwd: [RobynHitchcockClub] Robyn + Venus 3 in Brighton last night] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [RobynHitchcockClub] Robyn + Venus 3 in Brighton last night Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:26:26 -0000 From: douglasgdn Fabulous gig at the Komedia last night. We had a great position (I went with my sister who introduced me to Robyns music years ago) stage right, between Robyn and Peter with just a row of people in front of us. Viarosa supporting again were very good, if a little downbeat. I bought a CD later since I love the way they use lap steel, violin, viola, banjo, mandolin, etc. Show had a few pleasant suprises, the hightlight of which was a cover of Dylans "Ballad of A Thin Man" where Bill Rieflin really went for it. Good to hear "New York Doll" and "The Authority Box" this time around. Quite a few dips into the Egytians era. Tim Keegan joined towards the end and the main set ended with a stunning "Jewels for Sophia". Lots of Soft Boys numbers for the encore, including "Give It To The Soft Boys" that Robyn introduced as a Young Fresh Fellows number. He was on good form tonight, announcing at one point that Peter had just told him he did not like porridge! All this from a band who admitted to being hungover and jet lagged. I hope someone taped it... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2007 15:39:21 -0500 From: wojbearpig Subject: admin note lest anyone theorize conspiratorially, i'd like to point out that there was a technical issue on smoe's end that was preventing delivery of mail out to the entire list. anything that was sent to the list between 5:30pm on friday and 2:30am saturday morning (eastern time) was not delivered and, unfortunately, appears to be lost. sorry about that. some news in case anyone missed it. robynhitchcock.com has added several additional dates to the march tour: athens on march 21, new york on the 27th and 28th, the iron horse on the 29th and boston (yes jill! boston!) on march 30th. also, fender has posted an interview with robyn at http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=155 woj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 18:28:50 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: reap Christopher Gross wrote: > Momofuku Ando, 96, inventor of instant noodles, the man who saved > countless college students from starvation. His other claim to fame is that his first name is frequently dubbed into Richard Pryor films when they're shown on commercial TV. Who else likes the Dresden Dolls? I was listening to their second album last night...there really are some marvelous tracks on that disc. And I love the gal's piano style -- I bet she's great to see live. I don't think the album is good enough for my top 10 of 2006, but...top 15? Sure, quite possibly. (But I still have to get through about 30 more albums minimum before I can propose a top 10 of 2006 with any confidence.) Eb ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V16 #1 ******************************