From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #306 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, December 21 2006 Volume 15 : Number 306 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: live albums: two brief comments [FSThomas ] Re: live albums: two brief comments [2fs ] Re: live albums: two brief comments ["Lauren Elizabeth (gmail)" ] RE: live albums: two brief comments ["Michael Wells" ] RE: live albums: two brief comments [kevin ] RE: live albums: two brief comments ["Bri N" ] Re: live albums: two brief comments [FSThomas ] Re: live albums: two brief comments ["Lauren Elizabeth (gmail)" ] Re: live albums: two brief comments [wojbearpig ] Re: DIME: Robyn Hitchcock - 3 Kings Pub - Dec 17th 2006 - Syd Barrett Tribute (2nd night!) [wojbea] Re: live albums: two brief comments [2fs ] reap ["Stewart Russell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:16:18 -0500 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments 2fs wrote: > 1. Why do live albums feature all that incessant applause? I mean, yes, the > audience was making that noise - that doesn't mean we want to hear it > listening at home. A pleasant break from this is the most recent Thomas Dolby release, "Sole Inhabitant". While there's some crowd noise, it's delightfully subdued. We managed to catch him here in Atlanta last week and the show was brilliant. He played "Airwaves" for what he said was only the second time in 15 years (and he hadn't played here since '88). > 2. Is anyone here a screech-whistler? Because there appears always to be at > least a couple of those in every live concert recording. I've been fortunate > enough never to have to have sat near one of those - but what compels > someone to blow their damned lungs out through compressed lips every five > seconds? I deeply resent anyone who feels so inclined to broadcast their presence at a public performance. This, too, includes those who wish to overtly demonstrate their (often perceived) mastery of (common or) obscure lyrics by singing in (and off) key along with the performance. Or, as I've experienced, even a half-beat late. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 21:33:23 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments On 12/19/06, FSThomas wrote: > > > > 2. Is anyone here a screech-whistler? Because there appears always to be > at > > least a couple of those in every live concert recording. I've been > fortunate > > enough never to have to have sat near one of those - but what compels > > someone to blow their damned lungs out through compressed lips every > five > > seconds? > > I deeply resent anyone who feels so inclined to broadcast their presence > at a public performance. This, too, includes those who wish to overtly > demonstrate their (often perceived) mastery of (common or) obscure > lyrics by singing in (and off) key along with the performance. Or, as > I've experienced, even a half-beat late. On this, I must admit that I occasionally catch myself singing along. This is usually through sheer enthusiasm, not because I'm trying to show off...but I usually stop, so as not to annoy my neighbors. This is especially the case since I often decide that the vocal needs a harmony line that's neither on the recording nor being sung at the performance... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 23:21:35 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth (gmail)" Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments 2fs says: > On 12/19/06, FSThomas wrote: > On this, I must admit that I occasionally catch myself singing along. This > is usually through sheer enthusiasm, not because I'm trying to show > off...but I usually stop, so as not to annoy my neighbors. This is > especially the case since I often decide that the vocal needs a harmony line > that's neither on the recording nor being sung at the performance... I have to admit that if I find myself singing along at a show, I stop. I have some odd sense that's it's gauche, and I'm not quite sure why. It has something to do with being in the presence of the performer, and with how I think of myself as a "fan" ...so much awkward self-consciousness, so little time. xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 23:54:02 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments FSThomas wrote: > > A pleasant break from this is the most recent Thomas Dolby release, > "Sole Inhabitant". While there's some crowd noise, it's delightfully > subdued. Yes, it is a sweet matrix mix, gently faded up in all the right places. (on screech whistlers) > I deeply resent anyone who feels so inclined to broadcast their presence > at a public performance. Actually, it's a bit of an in-joke amongst sound recordists, like the Wilhelm scream is in movies. The original double screech whistle was recorded at a Blodwyn Pig gig in Wigan in 1969, in the dying seconds of "The Modern Alchemist". This short section of tape has been passed around recording studios on a nod and a wink basis, and has been mixed in to many live recordings. It has never actually been noticed in a real performance, and anything you hear in a live recording is in fact the original Wigan whistle spliced in for giggles. It is occasionally overused - for instance, if one plays the original vinyl of "Bob Dylan: At Budokan" on a reference system, it is just perceptable repeating throughout the entire performance of "All I Really Want To Do". Musicologists have tried to trace the emitter of the original whistle, with the most likely candidate being the late Joe Gormley, the then-future leader of the National Union of Mineworkers, who despite being 52 at the time was known to be a huge fan of the Blods. > This, too, includes those who wish to overtly > demonstrate their (often perceived) mastery of (common or) obscure > lyrics by singing in (and off) key along with the performance. Or, as > I've experienced, even a half-beat late. Hey, half a beat is pretty good for a Scottish crowd ... cheers, Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:36:29 +0000 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V15 #305 Quoting fegmaniax-digest : > From: 2fs > When I hear these songs [snip] ..."why do they > have to freakin oversing every last damn note?" Wait - there's no such thing > as a single *note* in these songs: every pitch is melisma'd or swooped or > dipped or aspirated or growled or vibrato'd to death. * Yes indeed. The winner of the X Factor, Leona, has this melismamania in spades. - - Mike Godwin PS Hope to see people at the Fleece in 2007. Really cheesed off about missing the Piper gigs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:30:50 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: kevin Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments Hope no one takes this personally, but jeez, y'all sound like a bunch of sour, purse-lipped old republicans! Have you no spark of rock & roll in your souls? Especially in the present season of universal warmth & jollity, you need to spend a quiet half hour meditating on the real meaning of the phrase "Dance like nobody's watching" and take its message of simple, stoopid, non-utilitarian FUN into your stony hearts. Happy Xmas from dark and shivering Puget Sound / KS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:42:22 -0600 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: RE: live albums: two brief comments > A pleasant break from this is the most recent Thomas Dolby release, > "Sole Inhabitant". While there's some crowd noise, it's delightfully > subdued. > "Dance like nobody's watching" and take its message of simple, stoopid, non-utilitarian FUN into your stony hearts. At the risk of a threadmerge, it is possible to enjoy rock and roll without entirely alienating your fellow concertgoers. At the Dolby show that ended up as this recording, f'r instance, I happily capered around at the back of hall - but I capered silently. Silently capered. Whatever. But then, I wasn't drinking. Excessive wine leads to thinking things like "you know, Robyn would probably LOVE it if I shouted 'nice shirt' again." AARP here I come, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:54:09 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments > Hope no one takes this personally, but jeez, y'all sound like a bunch of sour, > purse-lipped old republicans! My thoughts exactly. I mean, let's face it -- crowd response depends on the show, but golly, some of you sound ready for retirement! I mean, no one wants noise at a King Crimson show -- and I have actually seen fans hush each other -- and no one wants some guy singing off-key to Robyn Hitchcock in a small club. But one reason I love, for instance, U2 shows is the fact that almost everyone is on their feet, singing, loudly, along with every song. Preach on, Brother Bono! - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:09:59 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: live albums: two brief comments >> A pleasant break from this is the most recent Thomas Dolby release, >> "Sole Inhabitant". While there's some crowd noise, it's delightfully >> subdued. >> "Dance like nobody's watching" and take its message of simple, stoopid, non-utilitarian FUN into your stony hearts. Michael Wells wrote: >At the risk of a threadmerge, it is possible to enjoy rock and roll without entirely alienating your fellow concertgoers. >At the Dolby show that ended up as this recording, f'r instance, I happily capered around at the back of hall - >but I capered silently. Silently capered. >Whatever. >But then, I wasn't drinking. Excessive wine leads to thinking things like "you know, Robyn would probably LOVE it >if I shouted 'nice shirt'again." Dolph can be heard in the 2002 Chicago Soft Boys show, "We've seen that shirt before, in the movies!", after Robyn came back for the encore in his Storefront Hitchcock burgundy lizard shirt. Michael B. NP Talk Talk - Laughing Stock ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:01:58 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: RE: live albums: two brief comments At 12:09 PM 12/20/2006, Bachman, Michael wrote: >Dolph can be heard in the 2002 Chicago Soft Boys show, "We've seen that >shirt before, in the movies!", after Robyn >came back for the encore in his Storefront Hitchcock burgundy lizard >shirt. Busted. I often have a hard time containing myself at rock shows. I've toned it down since the 3-night solo RH stand of a couple of years ago, when I began to get the feeling I was weirding Robyn out a little bit. >NP Talk Talk - Laughing Stock Now, if Talk Talk got back together and played the material from that album and Spirit Of Eden live, I have no idea whether I'd be ecstatically singing and shouting like the Baptist I was raised to be or keeping blissfully, meditatively silent like the Quaker I am now. Hopefully the latter, but it might be too much for me to keep in. - -- Dolph ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:21:17 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: kevin Subject: RE: live albums: two brief comments but I capered silently. Silently capered. ...which immediately filled my head with the "silently falling" chorus from Chris Squire's Fish Out Of Water album, which I suppose I'll have to go home & listen to now for the first time in Shiva knows how long. It's a Raymond Chandler evening / KS NP: Savage Bob Zimmerman's "Love And Theft" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:56:07 -0800 From: "Bri N" Subject: RE: live albums: two brief comments - --- kevinstudyvin@earthlink.net wrote: ...which immediately filled my head with the "silently falling" chorus from Chris Squire's Fish Out Of Water album, which I suppose I'll have to go home & listen to now for the first time in Shiva knows how long. - ------------------------------------------ I forgot about that album.... Now I want to listen to that and Rick Wakeman's Criminal Record! - -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:50:22 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: live albums: two brief comments Subject: RE: live albums: two brief comments - --- kevinstudyvin@earthlink.net wrote: ...which immediately filled my head with the "silently falling" chorus from Chris Squire's Fish Out Of Water album, which I suppose I'll have to go home & listen to now for the first time in Shiva knows how long. - ------------------------------------------ Nuppy came back with: >I forgot about that album.... Now I want to listen to that and Rick Wakeman's Criminal Record! I wonder how many aspiring bassists bought a Rickenbacker bass during the 70's due to Chris Squire? He certainly had a nice sound back then. I confess to not owning any Yes albums post Close To The Edge. Some of my buddies owned Tales, but after listening to it a couple of times I thought it was a confusing mess. I saw them in the Summer of 1975 after Wakeman left, they were pretty decent. Close To The Edge remains one of my favorite albums from the 70's. Michael B. NP Art Blakey - Holiday For Skins ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:03:47 -0800 From: "Bri N" Subject: RE: live albums: two brief comments - --- Michael.Bachman@fanucrobotics.com wrote: Nuppy came back with: >> I forgot about that album.... Now I want to listen to that and Rick Wakeman's Criminal Record! > I wonder how many aspiring bassists bought a Rickenbacker bass during the 70's due to Chris Squire? He certainly had a nice sound back then. I confess to not owning any Yes albums post Close To The Edge. Some of my buddies owned Tales, but after listening to it a couple of times I thought it was a confusing mess. I saw them in the Summer of 1975 after Wakeman left, they were pretty decent. Close To The Edge remains one of my favorite albums from the 70's. Michael B. - -------------------------- I know for a fact Andy Warren of The Monochrome Set and Adam and the Ants bought a rickie because he was a Yes fan. Michael, you should check out Yes "Drama" from 1979. The only one without Jon Anderson. Oddly fantastic and my favorite. - -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:59:11 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments On 12/20/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > > Hope no one takes this personally, but jeez, y'all sound like a bunch of > sour, > > purse-lipped old republicans! > > My thoughts exactly. I mean, let's face it -- crowd response depends on > the > show, but golly, some of you sound ready for retirement! > > I mean, no one wants noise at a King Crimson show -- and I have actually > seen fans hush each other -- and no one wants some guy singing off-key to > Robyn Hitchcock in a small club. But one reason I love, for instance, U2 > shows is the fact that almost everyone is on their feet, singing, loudly, > along with every song. Preach on, Brother Bono! Oh I get that - but I'm talking about live *albums*, and making the crowd noise between tracks louder than anything on the songs, and having an extra minute of it hanging around after the last track. (Speaking of King Crimson: isn't it _USA_ that features nearly two minutes of applause near the end, presumably waiting for the encore...which then cuts off?) In your living room, you're not at the show - and trying to reproduce the experience with canned applause that sounds more like an idling jet plane hardly substitutes for sweat, adrenaline, and weed in the air. It sort of reminds me of attempts to "personalize" machines (talking ATMs, etc.): I'm comfortable with my machines being machines and my recordings (even of live shows) being recordings - don't try to reproduce something halfassedly (actual human presence, singly or in multiples). Live shows is another thing entirely. Although I reserve the right to be pissed at people who ruin the *quiet* songs with loud shouting and whistling.* Save that for the rousing numbers please! (That's what they're for!) See? I can use exclamation marks! Rock'n'roll! And of course, the nature of the act makes a difference. U2 is all about bringing the big stadium-filling noise (at least live); Robyn in a small club playing acoustically is not. As Robert Fripp once said, ears are the protective cup of silence; your mouth is a tankard of noisy ale. Or something like that. * At a Peter Gabriel show about 7,000 eons ago, some idiot was apparently a major Tony Levin fan. Nothing wrong with that, except she kept shouting "Tony Levin! Tony!" during the most hushed, still moments of Gabriel's music. I'm thinking if I were Gabriel, I would have stopped the band dead and told her to shut up while we're playing. No one paid money to hear her yelling her admiration for the bass player - at least not when her doing so ruined what they actually *had* paid for. On the other hand, there's probably no moment at a Ramones show where shouting like a drunken moose is inappropriate. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:12:22 -0500 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments kevin wrote: > Hope no one takes this personally, but jeez, y'all sound like a bunch of sour, purse-lipped old republicans! It comes from having more than a handful of otherwise pristine show recordings ruined by the odd rube. *(S)he* may have enjoyed themselves, but having their exuberance trash my boots, now that's just inexcusable. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:37:29 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth (gmail)" Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments kevin says: << Have you no spark of rock & roll in your souls? Especially in the present season of universal warmth & jollity, you need to spend a quiet half hour meditating on the real meaning of the phrase "Dance like nobody's watching" and take its message of simple, stoopid, non-utilitarian FUN into your stony hearts. >> Well, dancing is a totally different thing. IMO, the best shows have the most dancing, and the fewest "backup" singers. Lauren, East-coast dork P.S. Talk about sing-alongs...at the Maxwell's band show, there was a very excited first-timer who was "helping" the boys turn their guitars. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:41:13 -0500 From: wojbearpig Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments one time at band camp, kevin (kevinstudyvin@earthlink.net) said: >Hope no one takes this personally, but jeez, y'all sound like a bunch >of sour, purse-lipped old republicans! Have you no spark of rock & >roll in your souls? Especially in the present season of universal >warmth & jollity, you need to spend a quiet half hour meditating on the >real meaning of the phrase "Dance like nobody's watching" and take its >message of simple, stoopid, non-utilitarian FUN into your stony >hearts. blatzman? ;) woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:45:38 -0500 From: wojbearpig Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments one time at band camp, someone said: >>but I capered silently. Silently capered. and kevin (kevinstudyvin@earthlink.net) said: >...which immediately filled my head with the "silently falling" chorus >from Chris Squire's Fish Out Of Water album, which reminded me of the chameleons (uk) "endlessly falling". >which I suppose I'll have >to go home & listen to now for the first time in Shiva knows how long. as will i now, right after that chameleons album. and "dick in a box". +w ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:48:58 -0500 From: wojbearpig Subject: Re: DIME: Robyn Hitchcock - 3 Kings Pub - Dec 17th 2006 - Syd Barrett Tribute (2nd night!) as most of you may have figured out, there was an issue with matthijs' torrent of the second three kings gig. a new torrent was posted yesterday. in case anyone missed that announcement, see below.... - ----- Forwarded message from Matthijs van Geldere ----- OK, all corrected now. Please go here to finish your 17-Dec-06 download - for those who got stuck at the previous attempt you just need to re-download the final 9% and you're there!! http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=126334 Cheers Matthijs. - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:05:16 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: live albums: two brief comments > one time at band camp, kevin (kevinstudyvin@earthlink.net) said: > > >Hope no one takes this personally, but jeez, y'all sound like a bunch > >of sour, purse-lipped old republicans! Have you no spark of rock & > >roll in your souls? Especially in the present season of universal > >warmth & jollity, you need to spend a quiet half hour meditating on the > >real meaning of the phrase "Dance like nobody's watching" and take its > >message of simple, stoopid, non-utilitarian FUN into your stony > >hearts. Not to mention that I hate the sort of patheticness on display when bands exhort the crowd to dance (or come up closer, or make noise): sorry, if the audience isn't doing it, your asking them to only points up the problem. And as a person whose enjoyment of music (I pause here to let you know that I am about to come out as a White Middle-Class Person) is primarily in my head and heart, I resent it when people think I'm killing *their* party by not dancing or screaming. They're not bothering me (unless they're in my face); so I'm not bothering them. Feelin' Grinchy... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:44:16 -0500 From: "Stewart Russell" Subject: reap BikeShare (Toronto's community bicycle scheme - ) - -- http://scruss.com/blog/ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #306 ********************************