From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #274 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, November 16 2006 Volume 15 : Number 274 Today's Subjects: ----------------- 9/11 and such [The Great Quail ] Friday Robyn Show [The Great Quail ] Re: iTunes 7 "gapless album" question ["Mark P" ] Re: 9/11 and such ["Stewart Russell" ] Re: 9/11 and such ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: "blinking" ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: gapless ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: "blinking" ["Lauren Elizabeth (gmail)" ] Re: 9/11 and such [The Great Quail ] Re: "blinking" [Caroline Smith ] Re: gapless [J ] Gotta Let This Ferndale Out ["Bri N" ] Re: gapless [2and2makes5@comcast.net] Re: 9/11 and such ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] re: overgrown ["ken ostrander" ] Re: 9/11 and such [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:58:54 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: 9/11 and such First of all, Jeff, thanks for the fat man farting comparison. I couldn't have asked for a better example of how the List has become dominated by second-rate imaginations. Though I suppose that it was wishful thinking, expecting *any* post to go by without one of your inane replies. In general, you remind me of one of those computer programs that strings together pre-programmed phrases to make artificially generated conversation: just take the subject of the last post made to the List, delete a few nouns and verbs, and then ad-lib in a few phrases selected from the "absurd" column. Presto, you have the standard Jeff post, coming at you at the rate of one every five minutes! As if the silence was...scary.... However, I have to say, the fat man farting thing, at least it was an honest attack, instead of one of your sly "Did I say that? No I really didn't mean it, here's a joke, ha ha" routines. > Curmudgeon mode on: with all due respect to folks who live in NYC or DC > (particularly the former) and who therefore are confronted daily with the > aftermath of 9/11, my impression is that most people elsewhere really don't > think about it that much. It was a terrifying tragedy, a frightening > reminder of our vulnerability...but we're not obsessed with it, and I don't > think it enters into people's daily calculations of mood. I did not mean to imply that I am reeling from 911. Even though I work above Ground Zero -- literally, it's right outside my office window -- I have processed it pretty well and moved on, as have most New Yorkers. In fact, as a group, I think we have a more balanced view of it than many people, particularly those who tend to vote Republican and want to lay waste to various unrelated Middle Eastern states. What I meant in my previous post was, back when 9/11 occurred, there were some people on the List who were less than consoling, and it got deeply political for a while, and some really nasty things were said. I myself certainly blew a fuse or two. And as I've said before, a few NY Fegs actually dropped off the List. Good people, too. They just felt ill at watching a personal tragedy become instant grist for the left-wing political mill. (though the right wing has far surpassed that, of course.) So I mentioned it not as an example of something that I am still feeling, but as another incident that I feel changed the tenor of the List, along with the Nader/Bush/Gore election debate. But of course, my recent comments -- spoken as a long term member of the List, and spoken with some degree of candor in response to Ken and Lang -- were immediate compared to farting, meanwhile Rex suggests that Ken's torrential outpouring of "The mighty quail has fallen" was a breath of fresh air. Not to mention Rex and Capuchin believing that I am other people as well as myself, and other people just grouping me along with Rex as a equal troublemaker. Well, like they said in the 90s, whatever. That's how I feel, I suppose. It's the Rex & Jeff Show, guest-starring a host of political wingnuts who browbeat you the second you dare to offer a different opinion. If it weren't for the actual admiration I feel for the members who tend to avoid this crap and focus on the music (Tom, Stewart, James, Jill, Steve, Chris, etc., (as well as Eddie and Eb, both of whom I love dearly, but both of whom are wonderful muckrakers), I'd have signed off long ago. But as it is, I like Robyn and his music, and this is the only game in town. And sure, sometimes I wish I could just keep my mouth shut and post about music and computers, but that's not how I'm built. I confess to having a short fuse, and I think that there's room on the List for an old crank like me. I sure wish I were Gonzo, but right now, I'm feeling more like Statler and Waldorf. How's that for pungency? - --Q ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:59:47 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Friday Robyn Show Who is going to this Friday's show at the Hiro Ballroom in NYC? Anyone want to meet up for dinner beforehand? Contact me offlist.... - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:22:23 -0500 From: "Mark P" Subject: Re: iTunes 7 "gapless album" question > Curmudgeon mode on: with all due respect to folks who live in NYC > or DC > (particularly the former) and who therefore are confronted daily > with the > aftermath of 9/11, my impression is that most people elsewhere > really don't > think about it that much. It was a terrifying tragedy, a frightening > reminder of our vulnerability...but we're not obsessed with it, and > I don't > think it enters into people's daily calculations of mood. >Although I've lived across the country for the past 15 years, my >heart is still in NY. The pain I feel when I think of those towers >coming down is something I consistently try to avoid, but it really >hurts when I see photos or old movies with the NYC skyline "intact". I>'m not sure I'll ever get over it. > -tc +++ since 9/11, it's still tough driving into the city from out here on Long Island, any approach. those towers were always *there*. 'guess the bygone subliminal comfort of being taken for granted, or, there was(is) always just that random motorway craziness making you keep yr eyes to the road at hand. they were indeed "intact" -even when you didn't cast yr gaze their way- and all was good. but now it's just such a matter of them not being there, looms quite large. yrs truly as well shall never wholly get over that space in time five years back. oh... here's the Kimberley Rew Myspace page I cobbled together, some videos there so far, music to come -- http://www.myspace.com/kimberleyrew -- so stop by and give the vids a spin, languish -if even for a nano-bit- in the niceness of all things REW! m+++ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:32:01 -0500 From: "Stewart Russell" Subject: Re: 9/11 and such On 15/11/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > I sure wish I were > Gonzo, but right now, I'm feeling more like Statler and Waldorf. Whoa ... feglist as Muppets. Could this become a thread, please? Stewart (who really likes King Biscuit Time, and if you liked the Betas, you would too.) - -- http://scruss.com/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:56:41 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: 9/11 and such On 11/15/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > > In general, you remind me of one of those computer programs that strings > together pre-programmed phrases to make artificially generated > conversation: Erm... *who* strikes you this way? Because...erm... > were immediate compared to farting, meanwhile Rex suggests that Ken's > torrential outpouring of "The mighty quail has fallen" was a breath of > fresh > air. I was really referring to the style, which was whimsical enough to suggest that Ken wasn't being entirely serious. It was a nice break from the overwrought handwringing in which I, among others, get stuck all too frequently. Not to mention Rex and Capuchin believing that I am other people as > well as myself, and other people just grouping me along with Rex as a > equal > troublemaker. Erm... what is it precisely that you're doing right now, Quail? Keeping the peace in some fashion? Well, like they said in the 90s, whatever. That's how I feel, I suppose. > It's the Rex & Jeff Show, guest-starring a host of political wingnuts who > browbeat you the second you dare to offer a different opinion. Goddamn, must you make everything political? Nothing can happen without you making it into some kind of example of rampant thought-policing. It's as predictable and lame as a freakin' "Mallard Fillmore" comic strip-- seriously, somebody, pick up today's comics page, and there's Quail with a duck's beak, whining about politcal correctness fifteen years too late. For real! I'll never quite get why Quail pretends to some kind of libertarianism or even liberalism when everything that he rails against bespeaks a fundamentally conservative outlook, but that's a whole 'nother issue. > If it weren't > for the actual admiration I feel for the members who tend to avoid this > crap > and focus on the music (Tom, Stewart, James, Jill, Steve, Chris, etc., (as > well as Eddie and Eb, both of whom I love dearly, but both of whom are > wonderful muckrakers), I'd have signed off long ago. Disingenuous. Come on. You don't like Jeff or me, and you do like these other folks, and that is fine. BUT. I post frequently about music. Jeff posts frequently about music. Tom, Stewart, James, Jill, Steve, Chris, and especially Eddie and Eb, post frequently about things other than music. Really, Quail, this sort of stay-on-topic-or-you-suck would be beneath you even if it held water in its particulars, which it doesn't. Plus, it looks like you're trying to create some kind of lame-o factionalism or something here. Your list above conspicuously lacks the names of regular, valuable posters who totally and joyously bring up musical topics and introduce wonderful artists, or seek opinions... Brian, Brian, Michael, Jeff D., tons more. You say "etc." but I can't imagine what motivates you to name names other than your compulsion for factionalism and politcization, which is really remarkable. But as it is, I like > Robyn and his music, and this is the only game in town. And sure, > sometimes > I wish I could just keep my mouth shut and post about music and computers, > but that's not how I'm built. And this is how we are, each with our own compulsive crosses to bear. So why not accept everyone else's idiosyncracies? We tolerate you! FWIW, my guess is that the average lister does not think queasily of "The Rex and Jeff Show"... they revile, as evidenced by Commander Lang's post, The Rex, Eb & Quail Pugilism Hour. Maybe you and I are in the running for "Fegmania's Most Hated", but Jeff Norman is way down the list. I could, as always, be totally wrong here. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:13:18 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: "blinking" m swedene wrote: >> Robyn content: so how come no one's said anything about blinking? > > > My girlfriend, now my fiance, and next week my wife.... congrats! > > has always pointed out the FRANTIC blinking of Robyn when he plays > live. I suspect nervousness, sweat, and sparse lashes. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:17:27 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: gapless Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > Same here. I guess I've read her name here, but I don't know anybody who > listens to her. One does not merely listen to Joanna Newsom, one *experiences* her. And she does this squeak thing with her voice now that leaves Bjork in the dust for vocal oddness. > Hm, I just ordered the new Decemberist and I've already bought a ticket > for their show in February - but I'm not entirely anti-prog, so who knows? One's first Decemberists show is a joy. I wish I could have that experience again. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:46:14 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth (gmail)" Subject: Re: "blinking" Stewart C. Russell says: > I suspect nervousness, sweat, and sparse lashes. I just figured he was kind of nuts. The boys put on a good show in Sellersville, PA (quite a few country miles northwest of Philadelphia.) It was a lovely theatre, quite small compared to other theatres I've seen Robyn in. It looks like Robyn's back problems mentioned here aren't much better - he sat down the entire performance which was kind of bizarre. He wore a maroon shirt with lizards which I think is different than the salamander shirt. He blinked quite a bit. Not much with the hair flipping. I thought the show was great, but lacked some of the great energy that was present when I saw them in SF in January. It's possible the lower energy might have been an illusion caused by Robyn's sitting on a chair with his electric guitar, but either way he did occasionally seem to have some discomfort. Some highlights were "If You Were a Priest", "When I Was a Kid", "Authority Box". Sadly, there were no Beatles covers. There were some painkiller jokes; some Britney Spears divorce ramblings, as well as some strange and funny comments about the wallpaper that involved a comparison of imagery in "Beauty and the Beast" and "Repulsion". Afterwards, the band did a seemingly-impromptu encore in the lobby (which was just regular songs and didn't include the "Sound 'n' Vision" medley I'm a bit tired of.) I'm hoping someone who took notes will post a setlist. I'm looking forward to seeing them at Maxwell's as well; hopefully Robyn will be feeling a bit better by then. xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:08:56 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: 9/11 and such Rex writes, > Erm... *who* strikes you this way? Because...erm... Not sure what you mean, but it was Jeff's posts to which I was referring. > I was really referring to the style, which was whimsical enough to suggest > that Ken wasn't being entirely serious. Uh huh. The topic had nothing to do with it, eh? > I'll never quite get why Quail pretends to some kind of libertarianism or > even liberalism when everything that he rails against bespeaks a > fundamentally conservative outlook, but that's a whole 'nother issue. Well, first of all, libertarianism *is* fundamentally conservative. So, I suppose I am fundamentally conservative, in the traditional "get government out of my life" kind of way. I own guns, but I am for limited gun control; I think religions should be taxed, but I loathe the way most of my tax money is spent; I am for the legalization of pot, and I think gays should be allowed to get married. I stop at the abolition of most social programs, so I am certainly not fully libertarian! So I will overlook your belief that I am "pretending" to be something I am not, considering you may be mistaken in your application of labels. I just think that a lot of the so-called "liberalism" on this list is just fuzzy thinking and utopianism. > Disingenuous. Come on. You don't like Jeff or me, and you do like these > other folks, and that is fine. BUT. I post frequently about music. Jeff > posts frequently about music. That's true, that's absolutely true. I was not saying that the people I named post about music and that's why I remain; but I can see why you thought that. This isn't about who posts about music or not. I just meant that I enjoy their posts about music, and listed them as people who tend not to get political or meta. I also enjoy most of your musical thoughts, as well as Jeff's, even though, obviously, our tastes differ. For instance, I *like* the prog elements in Newsom and the Decemberists. > Really, Quail, this sort of stay-on-topic-or-you-suck would be beneath you > even if it held water in its particulars, which it doesn't. No, no, I would totally agree with you, if that's what I meant. I was not clear. I have *never* been one to carp about staying on topic. > Plus, it looks like you're trying to create some kind of lame-o factionalism > or something here. Your list above conspicuously lacks the names of > regular, valuable posters who totally and joyously bring up musical topics > and introduce wonderful artists, or seek opinions... Brian, Brian, Michael, > Jeff D., tons more. Sorry, I am not trying to be factional, really. I just posted a few people that I enjoy reading off the top of my head, most of whom I have met or had offlist correspondence. Really, it was no more devious than that. The people you mention are, of course, valuable music commentators. I just know them less, that's all. You are reading way too much into my comments. > And this is how we are, each with our own compulsive crosses to bear. So > why not accept everyone else's idiosyncracies? We tolerate you! "We," huh? Well, thanks for speaking for the whole group! Does this mean I can stay and have some of your cookies? > Maybe you and I are in the running for > "Fegmania's Most Hated", That's not fair. Eb's put a lot of work into his ranking, and I would not want to take it away from him. >but Jeff Norman is way down the list. I could, as > always, be totally wrong here. I cannot imagine why anyone would hate Jeff. But I do find his tendency to jump into the middle of every conversation with a "Lookit me, lookit me!" post to be annoying. I also get irritated the way he plays your constant wingman, but that's the relationship you guys have -- have issue with you, you have issue with Jeff. I mean, it's kind of cute at first, but after awhile, jeez. However, I certainly do not hate Jeff, though, and sometimes I think he can be funny. But the guy did compare me to a fat man farting, so it's not like I'm readying his Christmas card. Honestly, I don't hate anyone on the List. Even the people who vex me, such as yourself and Capuchin, are just personalities on a monitor. It's hard to hate someone you barely even know, and who has never interfered with your life in a serious way. - --Q ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:19:55 -0500 From: Caroline Smith Subject: Re: "blinking" On 15-Nov-06, at 7:13 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > m swedene wrote: >>> Robyn content: so how come no one's said anything about blinking? >> My girlfriend, now my fiance, and next week my wife.... > >> has always pointed out the FRANTIC blinking of Robyn when he plays >> live. > > I suspect nervousness, sweat, and sparse lashes. I've noticed it when I watch him play guitar. I figured it had to do with intense concentration.... some people stick out their tongues, some people blink madly...? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:38:05 -0800 (PST) From: J Subject: Re: gapless >Stewart writes, >> So, okay, who *didn't* spend all of yesterday listening to Ys? >I love it. >- --Quail Oh me too! I've been hungry for more complicated music and she is so nice and weird!! I see this as an album that I won't burn out on in a week. I'm going to see her in December for the first time and I'm very excited! Anyone ever see her play live? - -Julie ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career. Www.nextag.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:52:25 -0800 From: "Bri N" Subject: Gotta Let This Ferndale Out A little Gotta Let This Hen Out, Ferndale, MI clip from my camera:http://www.sendspace.com/file/027crc -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 02:02:58 +0000 From: 2and2makes5@comcast.net Subject: Re: gapless Usually I find out about great new bands from this list, but I don't remember Art Brut coming up before--heard the moving to LA song on the radio and an interview with the band and ended sitting in the car listening till the damn host got around to identifying them. Re: Cthulhu--I was watching Richard Dawkins on C-span speaking in Virginia and thought it interesting that he referred to worshipping a "great juju at the bottom of the sea." Cthulhu also hates top-posting. Jon > > Gonna be a logjam for my top record of the year-- does the Art Brut album > count as a 2006 (in the US at least)? And when did The National's > "Alligator" come out? > > > -SER ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:51:26 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: 9/11 and such On 11/15/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > Rex writes, > > > I was really referring to the style, which was whimsical enough to > suggest > > that Ken wasn't being entirely serious. > > Uh huh. The topic had nothing to do with it, eh? It didn't. I said his recent *posts*... I only recall one having Quail content. I was not saying that the people I > named post about music and that's why I remain; but I can see why you > thought that. This isn't about who posts about music or not. I just meant > that I enjoy their posts about music, and listed them as people who tend > not > to get political or meta. I also enjoy most of your musical thoughts, as > well as Jeff's, even though, obviously, our tastes differ. For instance, I > *like* the prog elements in Newsom and the Decemberists. There's an obvious line from Robyn through the Cambridge scene into Teh Prog. I expect people 'round here to like some of that stuff and enjoy the challenges that presents to my own starchy tastes. > No, no, I would totally agree with you, if that's what I meant. I was not > clear. I have *never* been one to carp about staying on topic. I didn't think so-- that seemed out of character. Okay. > > And this is how we are, each with our own compulsive crosses to > bear. So > > why not accept everyone else's idiosyncracies? We tolerate you! > > "We," huh? Well, thanks for speaking for the whole group! Does this mean I > can stay and have some of your cookies? Aw, c'mon... you = the Quail, all other = the Not-Quail. The Quail asks the Not-Quail to accept his quirks. The Not-Quail may thus expect similar acceptance. It's not an exotic formula, even if some Not-Quail are thin-skinned, humorless, etc. > That's not fair. Eb's put a lot of work into his ranking, and I would not > want to take it away from him. We will all one day stand before Cthulhoooo and he alone will confer most-hatedness. I wanna be in that number. > I cannot imagine why anyone would hate Jeff. But I do find his tendency to > jump into the middle of every conversation with a "Lookit me, lookit me!" > post to be annoying. "That's just the way he's wired." I also get irritated the way he plays your constant > wingman, but that's the relationship you guys have -- have issue with you, > you have issue with Jeff. I mean, it's kind of cute at first, but after > awhile, jeez. I think you may see more in operation than there is. Not to speak for Jeff, but we don't really confer on these things-- I guess we happen to find some (hardly all!) of the same things annoying. And I know you find "chumminess" annoying, but I like having friends. I understand your nausea about it if it were all hallmarky and gooey, but YMM&CDV. > Honestly, I don't hate anyone on the List. Even the people who vex me, > such > as yourself and Capuchin, are just personalities on a monitor. It's hard > to > hate someone you barely even know, and who has never interfered with your > life in a serious way. I will take that at face value. I've seen some of your comments towards me, mostly privately, as pretty strident and damning, suggestive of at least a medium-deep emotional investment in being pretty strongly, like, not that "into" me, to put it mildly. But I'll leave that where it lies. Now if someone could just finally recommend the one song that will finally, finally, make me kind of like King Crimson as a band even half as much as I like its members' contributions to the work of others, we all will have learned something very special today. - -SER (cheesy chummy bit intentionally tongue -in-cheek) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:44:15 -0500 From: "ken ostrander" Subject: re: overgrown quailio, let me say at the outset that i don't think that you're a gapless fool or a juicebox. i understand how the expectations people have can make you feel like a battered old bird; but please don't take any of my ramblings personally. it was undertaken with great affection as a tribute. i really do respect your imput and the relative rarity of your posts increases their trade value. it doesn't suprise me that people have seen fit to fade away from the list. i've done it myself. i sometimes find it difficult to justify taking time and energy away from fatherhood (amy refers to it as the fegomanics); but i keep coming back for the wealth of insight and information and entertainment on just about anything from politics to technobabble to music. back in the heyday (when i was being paid to sit in front of a computer all day) i was subscribed to numerous discussion lists; but this is the only one that still keeps my interest. i like your paraphrase of ghandi: be the change you wish to see. we are each responsible for making this a place we want to be. as far as ye old nader nine eleven broohoohoo goes, my views haven't changed so much as mellowed. i'm still in the grief process, moving from anger to sadness; and that is a daily struggle. these days i prefer to focus my energies on positive interpersonal change instead of raging against the machinery. history can be a real albatross. it's too easy to get bogged down in the propaganda and dismissively pigeonhole people (http://anarchopeacenik.blogspot.com/2006/08/speak-for-yourself.html) which serves to widen the divide. the negative mindset kicks in just about every time i turn on the news and it takes conscious effort to extricate myself from the mire. hope is a radical choice that often doesn't make any rational sense; but it certainly feels better than the alternative. if that's fuzzy utopianism then shave me bald in the cozy church of cynical humanism. by the way, i borrowed 'on beyond zebra' from the library today after reading your modern world nestings. help yourself to the cookies. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:46:11 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: 9/11 and such On 11/15/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > First of all, Jeff, thanks for the fat man farting comparison. I couldn't > have asked for a better example of how the List has become dominated by > second-rate imaginations. Though I suppose that it was wishful thinking, > expecting *any* post to go by without one of your inane replies. I believe the relevant aspect of the post wasn't the farting itself, but the farting in its context. I thought your post, with its rueful tone of better-days-past, and its pretensions to speak for the entire list, was redolent of, well, an unpleasant, strong, and pervasive odor in a closed, stuffy, and ostentatiously appointed room. But you know, that's just inanity and second-rate imagination at work. Some might observe at least some difference between a post that puts at least a modicum of space between its content and its target and so involves at least *some* connecting-of-dots, and a post that just bluntly hauls out the insults and names its target. The space between might at least be legible as allowing for *some* distance, *some* generalizability, even *some* satirical ribbing, say. In general, you remind me of one of those computer programs that strings > together pre-programmed phrases to make artificially generated > conversation: > just take the subject of the last post made to the List, delete a few > nouns > and verbs, and then ad-lib in a few phrases selected from the "absurd" > column. Presto, you have the standard Jeff post, coming at you at the rate > of one every five minutes! As if the silence was...scary.... And in general, you remind me of one of those programs that strings together pre-programmed monkeys to make artificially generated archaeopterices. > of one every five minutes! As if the silence was...scary.... It is. There are demons! Incidentally, a random sampling of several entries in this year's digest put you fourth in line, by the way. If you were Alec Guinness, Eb, Rex, and I should be concerned. And if you were just plain Guinness, I should hope you'd be drunk. However, I have to say, the fat man farting thing, at least it was an honest > attack, instead of one of your sly "Did I say that? No I really didn't > mean > it, here's a joke, ha ha" routines. Eh wot? If I'm occasionally guilty of attempted subtlety, I don't recall ever denying the attempt when called on it. Unless, in fact, there was no such attempt. I'm not attacking people most of the time, in fact. Except for those damned Canadians. See? Random non-sequitur! It's the Zippy the Pinhead in my brain. Well, like they said in the 90s, whatever. That's how I feel, I suppose. > It's the Rex & Jeff Show, guest-starring a host of political wingnuts who > browbeat you the second you dare to offer a different opinion. Which opinion is "different" and "browbeaten"? Because I seem to recall lefty opinions being browbeaten as well as right-wing opinions being browbeaten. When there are political threads here, because there are a number of strongly political lefties on the list, as well as a number of (generally articulate and thoughtful) opinionated libertarians and right-wingers, of course the opposing opinions are going to be disagreed with. Unless you want all political discussion silenced (and hell, sometimes even I think that might be a good idea), I'm not sure what you expect. I mean, surely you're not claiming there's a vicious PC regime out there punishing the presumed-guilty? In another forum entirely (but on a similar topic: specifically, the idiotic and painfully unfunny "cartoonist" Bruce Tinsley and his "Mallard Fillmore" strip), someone mentioned the popularity of Dave Chappelle, _Borat_ (and Sacha Baron Cohen generally), to which I'd add all the "redneck" comics like Larry the Cable Guy; folks like Sarah Silverman, _The Onion_, etc. etc. etc. Anti-PC is all the rage - haven't you noticed? If it weren't > for the actual admiration I feel for the members who tend to avoid this > crap > and focus on the music (Tom, Stewart, James, Jill, Steve, Chris, etc., (as > well as Eddie and Eb, both of whom I love dearly, but both of whom are > wonderful muckrakers) Hey, I value the contributions of all those folks - even Eb, when he's being civil, as he's been recently. And (as I've stated to you, offlist and on) yours as well. But really: if my posts annoy you so much, don't read them. Why cause yourself pain? The internet isn't mandatory. And sure, sometimes > I wish I could just keep my mouth shut and post about music and computers, > but that's not how I'm built. If you want everyone else to respect and acknowledge that - and not post pissily when *you* do something that annoys them (read: me, in this case) - then it would seem reasonable not to post messages decrying the current tone of the list generally or the personal quirks of members individually. Cuz, to not post as myself, whatever aspects of my personality people might like or dislike? That's not how I'm built. (Also: it's been seven hours or so since I last posted. Expect the missing 80-plus posts shortly.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #274 ********************************