From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #268 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, November 10 2006 Volume 15 : Number 268 Today's Subjects: ----------------- fegmeet toronto, eh ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... [The Great Quail ] Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... ["Spotted Eagle Ray] Noel Gallagher's existance finally justified!!! [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V15 #267 [thecrazypablo@aol.com] Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... ["Lauren Elizabeth ] Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... [The Great Quail ] Re: mysteries unveiled! secrets revealed! beds unkempt! [Eb Subject: fegmeet toronto, eh Catherine and I will be there. Caroline and Paul might be there. Carissa and others will be there too. Give me a call on my cell if you want to meet up somewhere before the show - 416 894 3798. Doors are at 9. At the very least, you could go to Soundscapes (allegedly Toronto's best record store, though I prefer wild east), which is just along the road. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:25:25 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... Rex writes, > Have you seen "Babel" yet, Dane? Looks like just the kind of thing you'd > love to carp about, Actually, no, but I think it looks pretty good, and I like the director. I certainly see the superficial connections you are making to my contempt for "Crash," but I think this movie looks a lot more interesting. > PS... Hee... Dane Quail... never noticed that one before. Look, Rex. I do not want to get into a personal argument again, but I would like to say this. The first time you claimed that I was Dane (as well as other, unnamed posters) I ignored you, because I felt you were already at a personal nadir. But seeing that you persist in believing that I am Dane, I feel I should at least disabuse you of this notion. I have *never* posted to the Feg List (or any other List) as anything but the Great Quail. I was not Mouse Stalker, the wacky chick with the bird name, or Dane Horsfeld. In fact, if you recall, Dane responded quite angrily against me a few months back during the whole LA thing. At the time, I thought he was a bit of an ass-hat; an opinion only strengthened when he weighed in recently with an anti-Eb post that proved he wasn't really following the thread. Other than these two posts, I have no idea who he is, or what his real personality is like. What I do not understand is why you think I am Dane, when the guy clearly seems to be more on your side. And while we are at it, please remove my name from your My Space page. Frankly, it's creeping me out a bit. - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:41:04 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... On 11/10/06, The Great Quail wrote: > Look, Rex. I do not want to get into a personal argument again Then, erm, don't. That includes baiting me with little one-liners... remember, I "can't help myself"! > And while we are at it, please remove my name from your My Space page. > Frankly, it's creeping me out a bit. Erm... wasn't sure what you meant until I looked it up. Sorry, I'd totally forgotten about that. Oy, for something I never even maintained myself, that shit was more trouble than it's been worth. I'll take it down. See, approximately one million years ago I set up two myspace accounts for both myself and my band. The band site turns out to be a useful promotional/booking tool, but as everyone over 12 knows, the personal networking thing is just icky and lame, so I promptly totally forgot about that account, until a month or so ago when my ex-wife brought it to my attention that she was obsessively checking it all the time (along with this list-- Hi, Megan!), for what reason I can't imagine, so I effectively dismantled it. Then it came to my attention that someone else was also obsessively checking it, too (weird, since I really hadn't looked at for a year or so, so repeated viewings really can't have yielded many edifying kicks for quite some time). All the stranger since the page was basically unfindable by searching my name (or any online alias of mine) unless you'd bookmarked it a long time ago, so that anyone who found it would pretty much have to be unhealthily fascinated with me, and the scant content there pretty much said that. I assume this is the guy who pointed Quail to the site, since, as I said, it'd be damned hard to find otherwise. Nothing for you to be too creeped out about, Quail. Me. I'm a little concerned that I'm on your mind so much, and would certainly rather you look at my band's page and tell me how much we suck, which you're more than welcome to do and would qualify as valuable criticism, but if you hate hearing about my personal life so much, why go looking for info on it? It can't be to "watch me implode"... your jabs at my mental stability are basically self-contradictory. Smart people don't bait the insane, and you are, admittedly, smart people. Oh, and sorry if I'm misremembering this, but I thought that at some point someone who's more of a l33t h4Xor than myself traced at least one of Quail's list-aliases back to him directly, lending credence to the generally-held belief that Quail creates sock puppets at will, including some who were less yes-men than handy-dandy antagonistic strawmen for him to dismantle. If not, my apologies for stating that as fact, but ISTR that a fair amount of such meta-stuffery, albeit of a generally benign flavor, is documented here: http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/ebony/546/posse.html I don't have much desire to peruse it at this stage, so if I'm wrong, someone can just say so and I'll* mea* a big fat *culpa*, no sweat. Peace out, - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:43:07 -0800 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Re: another reap qed? remember that conversation we had a few weeks ago? the one where i predicted you'd say you were opposed to corporate state-leeching, then get right back to the business of denouncing the poor? it took maybe a few days more than i'd expected; but, otherwise... i don't know which congressional district you live in. but i recall that at the time he was launching the "contract with america", gingrich's district brought home the third-most pork of any in the *nation*. so if your "good job" that you don't wanna lose is at all connected with the military or high-tech, you probably don't want to be pushing too hard for "excessive tax reform". just sayin'. do you have any evidence that the democrats have been less harmful than the republicans? look, i know that the republicans' rhetoric -- especially the current crop's -- is particularly bald. but...i mean, just take the latest atrocity that has the libs all up-in-arms: the gutting of habeus corpus. well, did the millions of indochinese slaughtered by the kennedy and johnson administrations enjoy habeus rights? how about the hundreds of thousands of iraqi children killed by the clinton administration's sanctions policy? have the poor, black victims of the "drug war" been well-served by the "justice" system? how many congressional democrats bitching high and low about habeus have called for the dissolution of gitmo, or the release of jose padilla? will we see action on this front when the new congress convenes? you know what, though? if the new congress were to, immediately upon being seated, cut off all funding for bush's wars, i'd take back all the nasty things i've said about the dems. i won't be holding my breath, however... i don't even think you could go that far. seems to me the dems' play (successful, as it turns out) has been simply to stand aside and let the republicans shoot themselves in the foot over and over again. (heh, never thought of this before; but there's a good cartoon waiting to be drawn there in re cheney's shotgun artistry. or, maybe it already was drawn, and i just didn't see it.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:02:07 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... Why is this being posted to the entire list? On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > On 11/10/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > > Look, Rex. I do not want to get into a personal argument again > > > Then, erm, don't. That includes baiting me with little one-liners... > remember, I "can't help myself"! > > > > And while we are at it, please remove my name from your My Space page. > > Frankly, it's creeping me out a bit. > > > Erm... wasn't sure what you meant until I looked it up. Sorry, I'd totally > forgotten about that. Oy, for something I never even maintained myself, > that shit was more trouble than it's been worth. I'll take it down. > > See, approximately one million years ago I set up two myspace accounts for > both myself and my band. The band site turns out to be a useful > promotional/booking tool, but as everyone over 12 knows, the personal > networking thing is just icky and lame, so I promptly totally forgot about > that account, until a month or so ago when my ex-wife brought it to my > attention that she was obsessively checking it all the time (along with this > list-- Hi, Megan!), for what reason I can't imagine, so I effectively > dismantled it. > > Then it came to my attention that someone else was also obsessively checking > it, too (weird, since I really hadn't looked at for a year or so, so > repeated viewings really can't have yielded many edifying kicks for quite > some time). All the stranger since the page was basically unfindable by > searching my name (or any online alias of mine) unless you'd bookmarked it a > long time ago, so that anyone who found it would pretty much have to be > unhealthily fascinated with me, and the scant content there pretty much said > that. I assume this is the guy who pointed Quail to the site, since, as I > said, it'd be damned hard to find otherwise. > > Nothing for you to be too creeped out about, Quail. Me. I'm a little > concerned that I'm on your mind so much, and would certainly rather you look > at my band's page and tell me how much we suck, which you're more than > welcome to do and would qualify as valuable criticism, but if you hate > hearing about my personal life so much, why go looking for info on it? It > can't be to "watch me implode"... your jabs at my mental stability are > basically self-contradictory. Smart people don't bait the insane, and you > are, admittedly, smart people. > > Oh, and sorry if I'm misremembering this, but I thought that at some point > someone who's more of a l33t h4Xor than myself traced at least one of > Quail's list-aliases back to him directly, lending credence to the > generally-held belief that Quail creates sock puppets at will, including > some who were less yes-men than handy-dandy antagonistic strawmen for him to > dismantle. If not, my apologies for stating that as fact, but ISTR that a > fair amount of such meta-stuffery, albeit of a generally benign flavor, is > documented here: > http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/ebony/546/posse.html > I don't have much desire to peruse it at this stage, so if I'm wrong, > someone can just say so and I'll* mea* a big fat *culpa*, no sweat. > > Peace out, > -SER ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:05:40 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: another reap On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Stacked Crooked wrote: > Democrats are still the lesser of two *evils*.> > > do you have any evidence that the democrats have been less harmful than the > republicans? look, i know that the republicans' rhetoric -- especially the I don't mean historically, I mean currently. So if you think the Rs and Ds are equally bad now, whom do you support? > current crop's -- is particularly bald. but...i mean, just take the latest > atrocity that has the libs all up-in-arms: the gutting of habeus corpus. > well, did the millions of indochinese slaughtered by the kennedy and > johnson administrations enjoy habeus rights? how about the hundreds of > thousands of iraqi children killed by the clinton administration's > sanctions policy? have the poor, black victims of the "drug war" been > well-served by the "justice" system? how many congressional democrats > bitching high and low about habeus have called for the dissolution of > gitmo, or the release of jose padilla? will we see action on this front > when the new congress convenes? Of course not. There are plenty of problems with the Dems. But I'd rather have them in power than the CURRENT crop of Republicans. I guess if I have to choose between social and economic freedom (why should I?) I go for social...I can't support people who are: 1) Gung-ho for the death penalty 2) Against gay marriage 3) Against the separation of church and state 4) Against abortion 5) Pro-federal intervention in the Schiavo case etc., etc., etc... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:08:58 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... On 11/10/06, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > Why is this being posted to the entire list? Ask Quail. I have no intention of making this a big high-key emotional stink-fest this time out. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:29:48 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Noel Gallagher's existance finally justified!!! It's a bit down, after the (French) Canada bashing, but, in a Rolling Stone interview, he said: Lars Ulrich came to see us one night  we tune our own guitars up because we're still capable of doing that  and he was like, [adopts perfect Ulrich accent] "F-Fuck, you know, you know you guys should really fuckin' get one of your fuckin' road crew to tune your guitars. The fuckin' spaces in between the songs are too long." And it's just like, "Look man, I don't know if anyone's ever pointed this out to you before, but youre the fookin' drummer in Metallica. Now you fookin' get on with that and leave the rest of it to us. "I believe in the marketplace of ideas even if the other guy doesn't have any." -- Keith Olbermann . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:40:42 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: another reap On 11/10/06, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > > > Of course not. There are plenty of problems with the Dems. But I'd rather > have them in power than the CURRENT crop of Republicans. I guess if I have > > to choose between social and economic freedom (why should I?) I go for > social...I can't support people who are: > > 1) Gung-ho for the death penalty > 2) Against gay marriage > 3) Against the separation of church and state > 4) Against abortion > 5) Pro-federal intervention in the Schiavo case > etc., etc., etc... And the hope can also be that this round of defeat for that virulent strain of Republicanism will lead the party leadership to clean up its act. All signs point to the fact that their kowtowing to the religious right was more of a front than their true face-- basically a briefly-brilliant get-out-the-vote strategy that has ultimately backfired on every level. If they can drop that pose, and go back to being just big business stooges... well, it won't be great, but at least the political dialogue will become a little less disingenuous. Okay, that's wild optimism, but it's that kind of week. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:54:49 -0500 From: thecrazypablo@aol.com Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V15 #267 So that's the interview I got kicked off the phone for. Jolly good. THanks to all who tuned in to my Hitchcock Marathon. I apologize to those folks whose questions I didn't get to ask. I was on the phone with Robyn for the quickest 30 minutes of my life. Very genial and pleasant, and I was still floating on clouds for hours after. In case you missed the special, the links are here for your streaming pleasure (there are lots of pledge breaks, so if you have audio hijack or a similar program...i'm just saying): Hour 1: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock1430.pls Hour 2: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock1530.pls Hour 3: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock1630.pls - Interview halfway through file Hour 4: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock1730.pls Hour 5: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock1830.pls Hour 6: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock1930.pls Hour 7: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock2030.pls Hour 8: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock2130.pls Hour 8.5: http://stream.wusb.stonybrook.edu:8090/content/hitchcock2200.pls The setlist of what was played can be viewed here: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=14396&blogID=190033027&MyToken=b32a15de-9ce1-493a-b647-bcd5bda7ecfc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:02:50 -0500 From: Caroline Smith Subject: Is this the right tram for the Pope? Short interview with Robyn in local weekly: http://eye.net/eye/issue/issue_11.09.06/music/interview.php - ------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:08:52 -0500 From: "Lauren Elizabeth (gmail)" Subject: Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... Benjamin Lukoff says: > Why is this being posted to the entire list? Twice in recent weeks, it's been suggested that Dane == Quail. I'm not that involved with the list, but, even so, since it was mentioned, I've wondered about it. It certainly seems reasonable if Quail wants to address it on-list. xo Lauren - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "People with opinions just go around bothering one another." - The Buddha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:08:52 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... > Ask Quail. It is simple. Rex has posted three times now in which he contends that I engage in "sock puppetry" on the List. As this is a public statement, I refuted him in public. I may be a rude asshole at times, but I do not post as Dane, or anyone else but myself. (Having said that, just for the record, I do believe that some nine to ten years ago, during postings under the "surreal posse" thing, I may have altered my "Reply-To" line once or twice for comic effect. Obviously this is different from creating a separate and hidden identity with a new email address.) Hopefully this will be the last post of this nature. I have no desire to bog the list down in a mire of insults, but it really irritates me that Rex makes unfounded accusations. Because they tend to plant seeds of doubt, I think it is important to respond immediately and firmly. Thanks, - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:52:34 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: mysteries unveiled! secrets revealed! beds unkempt! In re the latest fegtroversy, I think it's time to confess: Yes, it's true - I'm Dane. I'm also The Great Quail, Eb, Gnat, Tom Clark, Ken "The Kenster," Eddie, and (of course) Rex. If anyone else here wants me to be them, just let me know. Except then I'll know already. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:02:01 -0800 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... On 11/10/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > > Ask Quail. > > (Having said that, just for the record, I do believe that some nine to ten > years ago, during postings under the "surreal posse" thing, I may have > altered my "Reply-To" line once or twice for comic effect. Obviously this > is > different from creating a separate and hidden identity with a new email > address.) That's satisfactory to me as an admission that my suspicion (suspicion only) of sock-puppetry) is not entirely unfounded. So is this: > I have *never* posted to the Feg List (or any other List) as anything but > the Great Quail. I was not Mouse Stalker, the wacky chick with the bird > name, or Dane Horsfeld. Perhaps true, but people other than me suggested and believed that you might have been. Beyond that, anyone's free to inspect the archives of the Quail-Dane exchanges and draw their own conclusions. They seem fishy to me because Dane's characterization is inconsistent: the first time he appeared to be meticulously tracking the flame war, conveniently giving Quail a chance to keep it alive (I think someone even busted Dane for "throwing gasoline on a fire". The second time, to the contrary, he appeared really disengaged ("whichever guy said whatever"), which also served Quail's rhetorical needs in that it allowed him to demonstrate that I was succeeding in poisoning peoples' minds about Eb. The "weird bird lady" whom many thought to be a Quail sock puppet (it wasn't me who first suggested it) was named "Greta" (anagram for "Great") "Swan" (another bird name). The name "Dane" struck me as fitting that "clever alias" pattern as it fits the formula for Quail's regular screen name: Great Quail, Great Dane. That combined with the "posse" repuatation for aliases was enough to make me suspicious; Quail says he wasn't either of these personas, and I don't really know otherwise, so I have nothing more to say about it. Please consider this my own admission that I'm talkin' out my butt ('cuz I've no desire to be further branded as a conspiracy nut) and a pubic apology to whichever (if any) of the above personas really exist, including Allen Ruch (spelling approx). - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:21:21 -0800 From: "michael wells" Subject: RE: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... If woj decides to shut the list down because of this re-erupting, then I'm going to be seriously pissed at all involved (except woj, who I wouldn't blame a lick). Take it offlist please. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:30:05 -0500 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... michael wells wrote: > If woj decides to shut the list down because of this re-erupting, then I'm > going to be seriously pissed at all involved (except woj, who I wouldn't > blame a lick). Take it offlist please. I'll second Michael on this. There's enough genuine bickering between people as it is without needing to go into who's not really who and who's playing who on TV. ferris "some guy named Duane, a clever play on Dane" thomas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:38:49 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: mysteries unveiled! secrets revealed! beds unkempt! On 11/10/06, 2fs wrote: > > In re the latest fegtroversy, I think it's time to confess: Yes, it's true > - I'm Dane. > > I'm also The Great Quail, Eb, Gnat, Tom Clark, Ken "The Kenster," Eddie, > and (of course) Rex. Additionally: that was me on the grassy knoll. And I recorded that Klaatu album. And of course, I have a fetching collection of eyeball-hatted headgear. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:48:48 -0500 From: "m swedene" Subject: Hoboken - 2 tickets needed 11/18/06 If any one has 2 tickets for the show on the 18th, I am in need of some for friends coming in from out of town. thanks. Mike (aka - Herbie) (no foul/fowl named entities or screen names were used, abused, or harmed in the manufacturing and emailing of this letter). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:52:30 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: mysteries unveiled! secrets revealed! beds unkempt! 2fs wrote: >> In re the latest fegtroversy, I think it's time to confess: Yes, >> it's true >> - I'm Dane. >> >> I'm also The Great Quail, Eb, Gnat, Tom Clark, Ken "The Kenster," >> Eddie, >> and (of course) Rex. > > Additionally: that was me on the grassy knoll. And I recorded that > Klaatu > album. > > And of course, I have a fetching collection of eyeball-hatted > headgear. It's OK, Jeff. You accomplished your usual haha-absurdism-as- distraction-from-Rex's-lunacy move in the first post. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:08:49 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: mysteries unveiled! secrets revealed! beds unkempt! On 11/10/06, Eb wrote: > > > > It's OK, Jeff. You accomplished your usual haha-absurdism-as- > distraction-from-Rex's-lunacy move in the first post. Does anybody remember laughter? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:20:15 -0600 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: mysteries unveiled! secrets revealed! beds unkempt! > It's OK, Jeff. You accomplished your usual haha-absurdism-as- > distraction-from-Rex's-lunacy move in the first post. I hope this isn't a swipe at Jeff. I happen to *like* that move, even twice in a row. And that thing he does with the ping-pong balls. +brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:37:59 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: mysteries unveiled! secrets revealed! beds unkempt! JBJ wrote: >> It's OK, Jeff. You accomplished your usual haha-absurdism-as- >> distraction-from-Rex's-lunacy move in the first post. > > And you just played your self-appointed role as well, giving thumbs > down to yet another post you don't approve of. > > I was wondering how long it would be before you chimed in on the > Rex-Quail thread. Sorry...I guess Jeff beat me to it this time. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:12:12 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Here, thou incestuous, murderous, damned Dane.... > If woj decides to shut the list down because of this re-erupting, then I'm > going to be seriously pissed at all involved (except woj, who I wouldn't > blame a lick). Take it offlist please. I appreciate your sentiment, I really do. But please bear with me while I try to explain why I think your statement is not fair. It's one thing when two or more people are upping the stakes of a flame war, a pissing contest, or a heated argument. But this is the second time that a certain person on this List has made unfounded accusations about other members. When someone *publicly* accuses you of something you didn't do, you should have the right to defend yourself. I think it is unfair for a third party to then characterize *both* parties as sharing responsibility and say, "knock it off." This "eruption" has occurred because Rex has decided to say something false about me. I have, in turn, made two posts in which I have defended myself. I would also like to pint out that in neither post did I make am overt personal attack in return. To me, if feels like you are saying, "Quail, stop defending yourself." This is different from saying, "Quail, stop arguing with Rex about who is the bigger asshole." While I appreciate that you may not care about who is "right," and while I appreciate that you do not want to wade through posts like this, there's something deeper at stake than just a flame war. This is *my* list, too, and I don't like when Rex tries to screw around with people's perceptions of my actions in the real world. The very fact that Laura remarked that she's started "wondering" about this is evidence enough that he's already done damage. Having said that, I have no intentions of responding to him further on-list. He does not speak the truth, and I stated so in public, and people will believe what they believe. - --Quail ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #268 ********************************