From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #247 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, October 17 2006 Volume 15 : Number 247 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Whoa [2fs ] Re: ain't that a shame? Babs in Ontari-ari-iaro [Caroline Smith ] Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... [2fs ] Re: iTunes 7 question [2fs ] Reminder ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: Reminder [Eb ] Re: Reminder [2fs ] Re: Reminder [Tom Clark ] Re: iTunes 7 question [Tom Clark ] RE: Whoa ["Marc Alberts" ] Re: iTunes 7 question [Eb ] Re: robyn on gideon coe ["Bri N" ] Re: iTunes 7 question [2fs ] Re: iTunes 7 question [Capuchin ] Re: iTunes 7 question [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: iTunes 7 question [Capuchin ] Re: Shirts etc [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: iTunes 7 question [2fs ] Re: iTunes 7 question ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: iTunes 7 question [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:33:44 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Whoa On 10/16/06, Eb wrote: > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,221001,00.html > > Looks like a fat paycheck for Tom. Yeah, and he'll probably spend it on old aftershave bottles, tire irons from Indonesia, and a complete set of valve trombones. (Dammit - now you've got me thinking of other things Scarlett Johansson might do with her mouth.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:25:47 -0400 From: Caroline Smith Subject: Re: ain't that a shame? Babs in Ontari-ari-iaro On 16-Oct-06, at 5:15 PM, Barbara Soutar wrote: > > First of all, I love Ole Tarantula (thanks to Stewart Russell and > Caroline Smith who conspired to give me a copy while I was visiting > Ontario last month). A friendly Feg meeting took place in > Hamilton, Ontario a couple of weeks ago, It was a really nice evening, Barbara. It's a shame that your visit didn't happen at the same time as Robyn's Toronto date. I'm looking forward to the show, but I'm a bit concerned b/c I'm not sure if I'll have the energy to enjoy the show (six months pregnant). Anyone know if the Mod Club has seating? I'll go regardless I guess. I'll be the ... er ... buoyant woman waddling back and forth to the Ladies. And while I'm de-lurking, I'll take the opportunity to tell fans of the Pet Shop boys to catch them on their current North American tour. Saw the show in Toronto last week and it was fantastic. Amazing how their older music is still (if not more) relevant today. off to the ladies room again, c. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:55:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, Tom Clark wrote: > > Okay, so how the hell do you specify which fields you want to > > include when > > you export a playlist? > > I finally got a chance to look into this and found a machine still > running iTunes 6 in the lab. Turns out there wasn't an obvious way > (i.e., menu item) to do this in 6 either, but I did find an answer > for you: Select all the songs in the playlist and hit Copy. You'll > then have a tab-delimited representation of whatever your view > choices are. Paste accordingly. It works! Tom, you are a genius. Er, I mean, Fuck you Tom Clark! - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:01:46 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... On 10/16/06, 2fs wrote: > > On 10/16/06, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > On 10/15/06, 2fs wrote: > > > > > > > > > That is one thing I really hate about collectively submitted > databases: > > > > > > Someone somewhere certainly sets conventions... for example, at some > point > > clarifiers like "live" and "dance mix" started to invariably appear in > > brackets instead of parentheses. Which I kinda get, since > parentheticals > > are so often part of a song title and the idea is to differentiate them, > but > > "'Cause It's Love (Saint Parallelogram) [Live]" looks pretty lame to me. > > And I'd really like to see (Previously Unavailable) eradicated, because > it > > doesn't stay true for very long. Could live without (Album Version) > too, at > > least in most cases. > > > > My preference would be that the song title field be used only for the > actual > song title. Descriptors like "remix," "live," etc. should have their own > field (similar to the way well-designed database programs have a separate > field for articles - so you can alphabetize "The Shrieking Playboys" > between > "Shriekback" and "Shrieky Freak" like it should be.) Artists / backing bands should really be separated much the same way. But then we are talking about a system that's way too high-maintenance for most folks to bother with. I mean, hell, when capitalization or correct spelling are too much to ask, this gets tricky. That said, a majority of people seem to have uses for fields like "genre" which hold no interest at all for me, and if I actually worried about the putative "release year" tabs, why, I might just have a nervous breakdown. And I occasionally mysteriously end of with small rafts of mp3's where the artists are listed in the "Soft Boys, The", or "Hitchcock, Robyn" format, when it seems like, at least on most mp3 player applications, writing it that way would both initially be, and ultimately cause, way more trouble than it's worth. FWIW I'm happy to be rid of the former formulation, but still not really resigned to the idea that Robyn is now an artist in the "R" section. is, it seems to me that bands who > insist their name *always* appear in lowercase, or always be weirdly > capitalized, seem to be trying to distinguish themselves (their *brand*, > in > fact - and the commercial aspect of that phenomenon, such as corporate > intercapitalization, bugs me too) by trivial signifiers rather than by, > say, > their actual music. It's as if the energy they expend making sure everyone > knows they're tHe wInDyPoPeS would be better spent, say, writing a good > song. Same here, perhaps because this and the misspelling craze (K-backwards-R-N, Linkin Bizkit, etc.) hit its zenith at a really producty time for music. Of course nothing would really stop a band from putting energy into both the cutesy name *and* the good songs... just doesn't seem to have happened for a while, so it's become the recent equivalent of the Scary Metal Band Logo. And thus (The) Arcade Fire won points right off the bat for not giving a damn if you use an article in front of their name. Although I must admit that Robyn Hitchcock & the Egyptians were largely superior to Robyn Hitchcock 'n' the Egyptians. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:05:59 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question I still don't understand the purpose of this seemingly redundant "Album Artist" field in iTunes 7. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:12:00 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... On 10/16/06, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > > > > My preference would be that the song title field be used only for the > > actual > > song title. Descriptors like "remix," "live," etc. should have their own > > > > field (similar to the way well-designed database programs have a > > separate > > field for articles - so you can alphabetize "The Shrieking Playboys" > > between > > "Shriekback" and "Shrieky Freak" like it should be.) > > > Artists / backing bands should really be separated much the same way. > Somewhere online (and I think it was linked here maybe a year ago), there's a site that essentially does the six degrees of relation thing with rock bands. But the site has this incredibly extensive and detailed list of rules for determining who exactly is a member of a band, what the band's name is (does it have a "the" in front of it? etc.), and all kinds of stuff. If I recall, it went into excruciating detail over when a "backing band" was to be regarded as a separate entity (obvious: when they record on their own under their own name - see "Crazy Horse"), when it was really a group that included the leader's name, etc. And of course, the age-old "how do distinguish, without knowledge of the band, between 'Bob Smith & the Riffhackers' where Bob Smith is in the band, and 'Trey Mendos & the Can Prevent Forest Fires' there's no such person as 'Trey Mendos.' Anyway, it was useful for discovering which bands seem to link to every other act around. I think that between Roxy Music, King Crimson, and Hawkwind, every British rocker is only a generation or so away. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:56:58 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question On 10/16/06, Eb wrote: > > I still don't understand the purpose of this seemingly redundant > "Album Artist" field in iTunes 7. Let's say you pick up _Decade_ by Neil Young. The album artist is Neil Young (it's where you'd alphabetize it, right?) - but individual tracks are by Young, by Buffalo Springfield, by Stills & Young, by Neil Young & Crazy Horse, etc. I suppose jazz fans might like it too: an album might be billed to a leader, but perhaps individual tracks might be listed by the featured players. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:38:35 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Reminder tomorrow night is joseph-arthur night for all you angelenos. i still haven't heard *Nucelar Daydream*; and, unfortunately, wasn't able to attend last week's concert. however, some kind soul uploaded to dime a short-ish pre-show secret show for kexp donors, and it's fucking *awesome*. *highly* recommended. if you don't have a dime account, i guess it'll soon be available at . on the other hand, just now listening to a couple of ed harcourt shows from last week, and, boy, if you thought *robyn's* voice was shot... hopefully ed's vocal problems are temporary. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:50:14 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Reminder > tomorrow night is joseph-arthur night for all you angelenos. i still > haven't heard *Nucelar Daydream*; and, unfortunately, wasn't able > to attend > last week's concert. however, some kind soul uploaded to dime a > short-ish > pre-show secret show for kexp donors, and it's fucking *awesome*. > *highly* > recommended. if you don't have a dime account, i guess it'll soon be > available at . Not interested in Joseph Arthur, but tomorrow night is also *Matmos* night for us Angelenos. Wondering whether this would be worth attending, or if it would be just one of those shows with two dudes sitting at a table with their laptops. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:26:27 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Reminder On 10/16/06, Stacked Crooked wrote: > > > on the other hand, just now listening to a couple of ed harcourt shows > from > last week, and, boy, if you thought *robyn's* voice was shot... hopefully > ed's vocal problems are temporary. Interesting you should mention that: listening to OT the other day, it occurred to me that his vocals sounded pretty good. Either whatever vocal problems he was having were temporary, or he's simply learned to use better the voice he now has. A lot less harsh-sounding and ragged: he uses that sound a couple times for effect, but on the rest he's singing, seemingly without strain, and it didn't seem weak or lacking in clarity or resonance. My impressions of the CD are still very positive, incidentally. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:27:05 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Reminder On Oct 16, 2006, at 7:38 PM, Stacked Crooked wrote: > tomorrow night is joseph-arthur night for all you angelenos. Never heard of him before seeing him on Letterman(?) last week. Strangely intriguing - does he always sing in falsetto or was it just that song? His bass player was pretty cute! - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:30:48 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question On Oct 16, 2006, at 6:56 PM, 2fs wrote: > On 10/16/06, Eb wrote: >> >> I still don't understand the purpose of this seemingly redundant >> "Album Artist" field in iTunes 7. > > > Let's say you pick up _Decade_ by Neil Young. The album artist is > Neil Young > (it's where you'd alphabetize it, right?) - but individual tracks > are by > Young, by Buffalo Springfield, by Stills & Young, by Neil Young & > Crazy > Horse, etc. Exactly. It really helps keep the library organized. I know Eb's got a lot of that rap music stuff where every other song is "featuring" somebody - in cases like that you want the whole album listed in the same place. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:04:20 -0700 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: Whoa Eb wrote: > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,221001,00.html > > Looks like a fat paycheck for Tom. Indeed, although not necessarily any fatter than when Rod Stewart slaughtered "Downtown Train." As a huge Waits fan, I'm interested in hearing this but part of me is a bit worried that it will be another Tori Amos sort of thing--overly mannered and interesting, but ultimately not all that enjoyable for me. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:05:12 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question Tom Clark wrote: >>> I still don't understand the purpose of this seemingly redundant >>> "Album Artist" field in iTunes 7. >> >> Let's say you pick up _Decade_ by Neil Young. The album artist is >> Neil Young >> (it's where you'd alphabetize it, right?) - but individual tracks >> are by >> Young, by Buffalo Springfield, by Stills & Young, by Neil Young & >> Crazy >> Horse, etc. > > Exactly. It really helps keep the library organized. I know Eb's > got a lot of that rap music stuff where every other song is > "featuring" somebody - in cases like that you want the whole album > listed in the same place. But if you're gonna organize your collection by "Album Artist" rather than "Artist," doesn't this require going back and typing in the "Album Artist" field for every mp3 you have?! No? While I'm here, what difference does checking the "Part of a compilation" box make? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:10:32 -0700 From: "Bri N" Subject: Re: robyn on gideon coe Fantastic woj! Great feel and sound this day at the BBC. Sorta reminds me of the Portland Arms... - -Nuppt - --- woj@smoe.org wrote: From: wojbearpig To: fagmaniax Subject: robyn on gideon coe Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:20:43 -0400 c'mon get it! http://fegmania.org/audio/rh2006-09-27-bbc6music-gideon_coe/ Robyn Hitchcock September 27, 2006 Gideon Coe BBC 6music Freeview>Wavelab>Flac 01 intro 02 Museum of Sex 03 interview 04 Ole! Tarantula 05 outro Personnel: Robyn Hitchcock - guitar and voice Ruby Wright - musical saw Colin Izod - saxaphones morris windsor - percussion michelle & subr - backing vocals converted from the flacs that were posted to dimeadozen (normally i wouldn't do that but dime banned the torrent since 6music's bitrate - -- the station's only available on digital radio -- is is too low to meet their requirements for distribution as flac files and it seems unlikely at this point that someone captured the mp2 stream). enjoy! woj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:28:08 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question On 10/16/06, Eb wrote: > > Tom Clark wrote: > > > > > Exactly. It really helps keep the library organized. I know Eb's > > got a lot of that rap music stuff where every other song is > > "featuring" somebody - in cases like that you want the whole album > > listed in the same place. > > But if you're gonna organize your collection by "Album Artist" rather > than "Artist," doesn't this require going back and typing in the > "Album Artist" field for every mp3 you have?! No? Depends on how Gracenote (or whatever) has the disc data entered. Personally, having spent a couple years entering my CD & MP3 collection into databases, with new titles I always edit them to make sure some stupid moron somewhere hasn't gotten info wrong. Ideally, your database should allow you to do both: view your collection as organized by album artist *and* by track artist. (Logically, which you choose depends whether you're looking for data on albums or on tracks. I might have 10 albums by Neil Young, but those 10 albums might contain 105 songs by Neil Young, 5 by Buffalo Springfield, etc. etc. etc.) (I've gone off iTunes a bit here and into database programs. But even within iTunes, you can probably see the utility of having tracks with a separate track artist and album artist. Partly this is because the file-locating logic iTunes uses: below.) While I'm here, what difference does checking the "Part of a > compilation" box make? In the iTunes library (i.e., the default folder the actual song files are in), typically things are listed by album artist\album title\song title. That is, there's a folder called "Robyn Hitchcock" if the album is listed as being by Robyn Hitchcock, a subfolder called "I Often Dream of Trains" inside that folder, and the tracks (in whatever format: mp3, AAC, etc.) are in the album subfolder. If you check the "compilation" box, iTunes treats the files as if they're by an album artist named "Compilations" with a subfolder created for each album so labeled. In other words, if you buy "Greatest Disco Hits of the '70s" and say it's a compilation, its tracks will be listed in ...\Compilations\Greatest Disco Hits of the '70s. (This is convenient for creating mix CDs: import the tracks, then change the album info to whatever you're calling your mix and check the compilation box: that way, all the tracks you're working with are in the same folder, instead of being scattered among the different artist folders and album subfolders thereunder.) I've written as if all this stuff happens automatically when you edit the track info - I can't remember any more if that's an option I've checked, or just the way iTunes operates. (I'm also talking about iTunes under Windows - I suppose there are minor variations on Macs. Although I should say: minor variations under Windows, iTunes obviously being Mac-native in origin.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question First, let me just chime in and state that I much prefer having my records sorted lexicographically with "Robyn Hitchcock" in the Rs and "The Decemberists" between "The Damned" and "The Donnas" and way far away from "Depeche Mode". I wish I could make my iPod not ignore the articles (which it only does for english articles, near as I can tell -- and that's a pretty stupid inconsistency). I also only use the Title field for the title of the track and place "featuring", "live", and "remix" in the appropriate comment fields. Otherwise, you get funny behavior. On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, Eb wrote: > But if you're gonna organize your collection by "Album Artist" rather > than "Artist," doesn't this require going back and typing in the "Album > Artist" field for every mp3 you have?! No? How on Earth do you folks manage your MP3 collections without a proper scripting interface? I don't think a week goes by where I don't type something like "for file in `find . -name "*mp3"`; do "... I suppose Mac users have bash, but in my experience they don't use it. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:22:27 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question - --On 16. Oktober 2006 23:02:41 -0700 Capuchin wrote: > First, let me just chime in and state that I much prefer having my > records sorted lexicographically with "Robyn Hitchcock" in the Rs and > "The Decemberists" between "The Damned" and "The Donnas" and way far away > from "Depeche Mode". I wish I could make my iPod not ignore the articles > (which it only does for english articles, near as I can tell -- and > that's a pretty stupid inconsistency). You can do that! For quite some time now I've had to the reverse for the German version. Let me explain: Originally iTunes ignored only the English article even for localized versions. The lead to German bands with an article to always appear under D. So they decided to fix it, but when they did so they went too far! As released by Apple, the German localized version now *only* ignores German articles! That's not what I want! Fortunately you can fix it. You can customise the rules in iTunes.app/Contents/Resources/name-of-language.lproj/Localizable.strings. There's this section: /* ===== Reordered Artist Strings ===== */ "146.001" = "The "; "146.002" = "%1, The"; "146.003" = "the "; "146.004" = "%1, the"; "146.005" = "THE "; "146.006" = "%1, THE"; I think you can just remove all entries. The nice thing is that the iPod uses whatever scheme the Mac that was used to fill it employs. > On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, Eb wrote: >> But if you're gonna organize your collection by "Album Artist" rather >> than "Artist," doesn't this require going back and typing in the "Album >> Artist" field for every mp3 you have?! No? > > How on Earth do you folks manage your MP3 collections without a proper > scripting interface? What are you talking about? Have you ever heard of AppleScript? > I don't think a week goes by where I don't type something like > "for file in `find . -name "*mp3"`; do "... > > I suppose Mac users have bash, but in my experience they don't use it. They could, but AppleScript is much more powerful as soon as you are interacting with applications other than shell tools. - -- b. Sebastian Hagedorn b Hagedorn@spinfo.uni-koeln.de b' http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 02:00:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > Originally iTunes ignored only the English article even for localized > versions. The lead to German bands with an article to always appear > under D. So they decided to fix it, but when they did so they went too > far! As released by Apple, the German localized version now *only* > ignores German articles! That's not what I want! > > Fortunately you can fix it. You can customise the rules in > iTunes.app/Contents/Resources/name-of-language.lproj/Localizable.strings. > > There's this section: > > /* ===== Reordered Artist Strings ===== */ > "146.001" = "The "; > "146.002" = "%1, The"; > "146.003" = "the "; > "146.004" = "%1, the"; > "146.005" = "THE "; > "146.006" = "%1, THE"; > > I think you can just remove all entries. The nice thing is that the iPod > uses whatever scheme the Mac that was used to fill it employs. That would be really useful... if I had iTunes which I do not. As soon as my iPod is back from the shop, I'll hunt around its configuration directories (whichever ones are accessible) and see what I can find. I have a FAT formatted iPod and use gtkPod to load it and manipulate the iTunes database on the thing. Supposedly Banshee can connect to the iPod, but I haven't tried that yet. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:32:51 +0100 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: Shirts etc Quoting fegmaniax-digest : > Subject: Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... > On 10/15/06, Bri N wrote: >> It was Seligman who played the bass on the Lizard on BSDR. Robyn played >> the bass on Acid Bird. > > From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" > I always forget that. The bass on the studio version is oddly, erm, > disco-sounding, whereas the Andybass from the live version on "Hen" sounds > pretty normal. Full disclosure: I heard the live version first and have > always preferred it.. * Another example: The Egyptians are usually better than Robyn solo. > > > Looks like a fat paycheck for Tom. > > Eb > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:11:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: bayard > Subject: song ID needed > hey all, > I found a CD I cannot identify... some of the lyrics are as follows: > > Small boys grow up to be small men, > Where it's dog eat dog or die. > Right and wrong don't mean a thing, > When you've got to feed your children. > > Some do it just for fun, > Sign a form and draw a gun, > Make those fucking faces run, > Run, run, far awayayayay. > > [[Sometimes I get so worried, > 'Bout the things I'm supposed to do, > But I just switch off and pull the trigger, > Chance of promotion getting bigger, > Prospect for the Medal of Honour, > ISoldier, > Yeaheaheah, > ISoldier, > Chance of Promotion, > ISoldier, > Yeaheaheah, > ISoldier]] > > Seems to be early 80s vintage, british, with a reggae beat. > Probably something pretty obvious... * 'Medal of Honor' isn't a Br. decoration, though I suppose it could have been used loosely for any medal. Sp. is English, however. >>> where does robyn find those wonderful shirts? >>> http://tadd.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/img_3118.jpg >> >> * Last time this was discussed he was getting them from Paul Scott >> (now apparently Sir Paul according to this week's colour mag). * Did I say Paul Scott? [yes, obviously - Ed.] I meant Paul Smith. Must have been reading 'The Bender' too much recently... > Anybody have a link to his catalog?> - -tc * Voici: - - Mike "_India_ is the Jewel in the Crown" Godwin n.p. Bob Lind, Elusive Butterfly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 07:03:08 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question On 10/17/06, Capuchin wrote: > > First, let me just chime in and state that I much prefer having my records > sorted lexicographically with "Robyn Hitchcock" in the Rs and "The > Decemberists" between "The Damned" and "The Donnas" and way far away from > "Depeche Mode". > I'm sure you'll acknowledge that in this, you're somewhat unusual. Maybe not for the "first name" thing - but the article issue creates problems, because in many cases it's not clear (and therefore, inconsistent from album to album) whether a band has one. (This, incidentally, is why I hate alphabetization systems that put numbers first...or more accurately, alpha systems that treat numbers-as-names the same as numbers and put them first. Because one then has to remember which bands use only the numerals and which spell out the number. And of course, some are inconsistent: is it "16 Horsepower" or "Sixteen Horsepower"? (they've used both) My thinking on the article issue is that if a band is German, the German article should be postpended for alphabetization. If it's an American band just using a German or pseudo-German name (Die Kreuzen, for instance), it goes under "D" because it's not truly an article: the name as a whole is simply evoking German-ness. Same with some "La ..." bands (also because while that might be an article it also might be a name prefix). Oh: and anathema upon those (at least those not in Ireland) who run "Mc" and "Mac" names together under "Mac." Alphabetize it as you spell it please... - --Nanny J. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:21:25 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question 2fs wrote: > > Oh: and anathema upon those (at least those not in Ireland) who run "Mc" and > "Mac" names together under "Mac." Alphabetize it as you spell it please... Um, that's how we do it in Scotland, and we know from Mac. It's more complex thank you can possibly imagine. cheers, Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:16:34 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question On 10/17/06, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > > > Oh: and anathema upon those (at least those not in Ireland) who run "Mc" > and > > "Mac" names together under "Mac." Alphabetize it as you spell it > please... > > Um, that's how we do it in Scotland, and we know from Mac. It's more > complex thank you can possibly imagine. I should have said "at least those not in Ireland or Scotland" - because with the prevalence of M[a]c names there, alphabetizing including the patronymic, and separating the "a" from the non-"a", would create massive headaches (as you imply). And who knows what other issues arise - I mean, other than Scots, who know. But elsewhere, it makes sense to use the actual spelling. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #247 ********************************