From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #246 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, October 16 2006 Volume 15 : Number 246 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: 4'33" warning ["Gene Hopstetter Jr." ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V15 #245 [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: 4'33" warning [2fs ] RE: recent posts ["Bachman, Michael" ] RH interview on 2SER - Tuesday [wojbearpig ] Free gig tomorrow in Melbourne [wojbearpig ] Re: recent posts ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: 4'33" warning ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: 4'33" warning [The Great Quail ] Re: recent posts [Eb ] Re: 4'33" warning [2fs ] Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... [Eb ] Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: 4'33" warning [wojbearpig ] Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Whoa [Eb ] song ID needed [bayard ] Re: iTunes 7 question [Tom Clark ] Re: 4'33" warning [Capuchin ] Re: I love my shirt [Tom Clark ] Re: song ID needed [Capuchin ] 3 Kings Pub / 16-17 December ["Matthijs van Geldere" ] second-hand news from Aussie [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:56:24 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter Jr." Subject: Re: 4'33" warning > From: 2fs > > I think it's not only "simply what happens between t[w]o distinct > points in > time," but that, approached in a certain (musical) mindset: i.e., > if you're > listening, it's music. (Analogous to movements in visual art that > essentially argue that "art" is what happens when you look at > things - or > even think about them - in certain ways.) *Excellent* point. And good catch on the typo. It was unintentional, of course, but it does have an interesting implication; that music is something that happens "to" points in time, like how some paintings challenge their borders (analogous to movements in Abstract Expressionism which regarded the painting's border as arbitrary). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:12:27 +0100 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V15 #245 Quoting fegmaniax-digest : > fegmaniax-digest Monday, October 16 2006 Volume 15 : Number 245 > Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 10:03:01 -0700 > From: "michael wells" > Subject: extra Toronto ticket > Re: Adelaide setlist >> If You Were a Priest, etc. > Bloody marvelous. Do NOT tell Godwin he did IODOT. * Too late! Though I did once see him perform it in a very unatmospheric club in The Pithay in Bristol. The one I never saw him perform is the unmistakeable 'Trams of Old London'. > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:00:46 -0400 > From: "Maximilian Lang" > Subject: RE: recent posts > I for one have no problems with any of the individuals involved but it makes > me want to unsub when this stuff goes on. Honestly it becomes a an outright > drag and quickly at that. Max * Moi aussi, I'm afraid. I left the Fireparty a couple of months ago when it started to get racist (despite warnings from the ever-patient listmeister). * Did I see 'John Barleycorn' on one of those setlists? Believe me, seeing Traffic perform this song was always a stunning experience, but now there's only Winwood left ... Mike 'so long ago' Godwin n.p. 'Hong Kong Blues' - Hoagy Carmichael, specially for all you 'blues is boring' fans! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:16:08 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: 4'33" warning On 10/16/06, Gene Hopstetter Jr. wrote: > > > From: 2fs > > > > I think it's not only "simply what happens between t[w]o distinct > > points in > > time," but that, approached in a certain (musical) mindset: i.e., > > if you're > > listening, it's music. (Analogous to movements in visual art that > > essentially argue that "art" is what happens when you look at > > things - or > > even think about them - in certain ways.) > > *Excellent* point. > > And good catch on the typo. It was unintentional, of course, but it > does have an interesting implication; that music is something that > happens "to" points in time, like how some paintings challenge their > borders (analogous to movements in Abstract Expressionism which > regarded the painting's border as arbitrary). Always good when you can make use of a typo. But I hate you and think you're a poopybreath. So there. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:21:03 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: recent posts Max: >I for one have no problems with any of the individuals involved but it makes >me want to unsub when this stuff goes on. Honestly it becomes a an outright >drag and quickly at that. Well put Max. I have no problems with the individuals involved either. We have lost too many fegs to the unsub category over the years due to various flame wars. I for one treasure being part of this list for the last seven plus years and don't want it to go away. Please bury the hatchet! Thanks! Michael B. NP The Decemberists - The Crane Wife >>From: wojbearpig >>Reply-To: wojbearpig >>To: fagmaniax >>Subject: recent posts >>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:44:30 -0400 > >>ok. i've been rather busy with work and not-work lately and have not >>been following the list at all in the last week or so but i hear that >>the normal low-level trench warfare is getting a lot hotter than >>usual. > >>i don't have time to read up on the list to see what is going on. >>and frankly, i don't care who is right or wrong. but if all the >>involved parties would do me a favor and KNOCK IT OFF, i would >>appreciate it. > >>i've got no problems with fegmaniax being more about its members >>and its members' other interests than about robyn hitchcock. in fact, >>i rather like that aspect about the list a whole lot. but if it's >>only going to be about a small subset's hatred for each other, well, >>maybe i don't want to keep the list running anymore. >> >>woj _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and morethen map the best route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:51:38 -0400 From: wojbearpig Subject: RH interview on 2SER - Tuesday - ----- Forwarded message from bill gibson ----- To: RobynHitchcockClub@yahoogroups.com From: "bill gibson" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:21:33 -0000 Subject: [RobynHitchcockClub] RH interview on 2SER - Tuesday Fresh off a flight from Melbourne, Robyn will be in for a live interview (and hopefully bringing his guitar) on 2SER's Crooked Tunes, on Tuesday night Oct. 16th from 7 - 8.30 p.m. AEST (that's 9 a.m. Tuesday GMT - 5 a.m. Eastern, 2 a.m. Pacific in the US) If you're in Sydney you can hear it on FM 103.7 - the rest of you can listen in to the live stream at http://www.2ser.com/streaminglink.html - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:57:00 -0400 From: wojbearpig Subject: Free gig tomorrow in Melbourne - ----- Forwarded message from bill gibson ----- To: RobynHitchcockClub@yahoogroups.com From: "bill gibson" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 00:24:28 -0000 Subject: [RobynHitchcockClub] Free gig tomorrow in Melbourne RH-3 are doing a free lunchtime show tomorrow at Melbourne University! With BBQ! (Uh, Robyn's vegetarian, isn't he?) Can someone please go and tape this and up it to Dime? Thanks! "Robyn Hitchcock and The Minus 3 + BBQ Live music: 12pm, Tuesday 17 October, North Court, Union House. Cult legend Robyn Hitchcock has worked with the likes of Gillian Welch, while Scott McCaughey (leader of The Minus 3) plays on REM's albums and has collaborated with Wilco. If you haven't worked it out already, this will be a five-star gig." (Thank god it wasn't "Puppet Show + Robyn Hitchcock".....) - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:31:58 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: recent posts On 10/16/06, wojbearpig wrote: > > > i don't have time to read up on the list to see what is going on. > and frankly, i don't care who is right or wrong. but if all the > involved parties would do me a favor and KNOCK IT OFF, i would > appreciate it. Cool, no problem here. Anyone interested in postmortems can reach me offlist, although I'm pretty much done with it myself, so if you expect me to reply, please be nice... thanks. I've very much enjoyed participating in the discussions about the new album lately, so I'll be around for that kinda stuff indefinitely. - -SER np. Glossary, For What I Don't Become ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:41:30 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: 4'33" warning On 10/16/06, 2fs wrote: > > On 10/16/06, Gene Hopstetter Jr. wrote: > > > > > From: 2fs > > > > > > I think it's not only "simply what happens between t[w]o distinct > > > points in > > > time," but that, approached in a certain (musical) mindset: i.e., > > > if you're > > > listening, it's music. (Analogous to movements in visual art that > > > essentially argue that "art" is what happens when you look at > > > things - or > > > even think about them - in certain ways.) > > > > *Excellent* point. > > > > And good catch on the typo. It was unintentional, of course, but it > > does have an interesting implication; that music is something that > > happens "to" points in time, like how some paintings challenge their > > borders (analogous to movements in Abstract Expressionism which > > regarded the painting's border as arbitrary). I kinda wonder if the explicit intent of the piece is to frustrate the audience's anticipation of a performance... and that therefore a recording of actual silence wouldn't be a recording of the piece, whereas a recording of someone explicitly not playing an instrument would. Then again, it arguably doesn't matter at all what the intent of a piece is once it's released into the world. Succinctly, misinterpretation isn't. I know this territory's been covered time and time again, but it remains kind of cool to revisit from time to time. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:05:42 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: 4'33" warning > I kinda wonder if the explicit intent of the piece is to frustrate the > audience's anticipation of a performance... I have not seen it mentioned here, or perhaps I have missed it. But one of Cage's points is not just silence, but the heightened attention paid to ambient noises, which makes the "4'33" unique every time it is "played." There's also the humor, of course -- Cage was quite a funny guy. - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 10:33:57 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: recent posts Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: >> i don't have time to read up on the list to see what is going on. >> and frankly, i don't care who is right or wrong. but if all the >> involved parties would do me a favor and KNOCK IT OFF, i would >> appreciate it. > > Cool, no problem here. > > Anyone interested in postmortems can reach me offlist, although I'm > pretty > much done with it myself, so if you expect me to reply, please be > nice... > thanks. Yes...let's watch Rex "maturely" bow out, as he casually leaves his libelous, damaging Swift Boat garbage on the table, unretracted. And please, if anyone would like to hear more of his lies off-list, do contact him. That way, he can pass on more of his feeble hearsay and fabrications without them being challenged. Incidentally, if anyone would like to understand the true extent of Rex's ongoing nervous breakdown, just check out what this hysterical, fuming little boy has done to his MySpace profile. Even I didn't suspect he had gone this far 'round the bend. I don't know why I'm holding back on publicly posting the URL, but I am. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:50:53 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: 4'33" warning On 10/16/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > > I kinda wonder if the explicit intent of the piece is to frustrate the > > audience's anticipation of a performance... > > I have not seen it mentioned here, or perhaps I have missed it. But one of > Cage's points is not just silence, but the heightened attention paid to > ambient noises, which makes the "4'33" unique every time it is "played." Hey, looks like I made Quail's killfile... ;-) On 10/16/06, 2fs wrote:On 10/16/06, Gene Hopstetter Jr. wrote: > > > Caged showed that music is simply what happens between to distinct > points in time. I don't know if he said that verbatim, but when I > got my brain around that idea, the world became much more interesting. I think it's not only "simply what happens between t[w]o distinct points in time," but that, approached in a certain (musical) mindset: i.e., if you're listening, it's music. (Analogous to movements in visual art that essentially argue that "art" is what happens when you look at things - or even think about them - in certain ways.) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:07:06 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... i think it's his second-worst album, after (er, ahead of) *Luxor*. <<<"Creeped Out" (gosh...is this Robyn's first reference to menstruation?)>>> <> i posted the lyrics at -- that should be good enough. also, check robyn's explanation of "The Moon Inside" (from *Spectre*) at . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:14:34 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... > whether this > is one of the discs which Eddie heaps abuse on> > > i think it's his second-worst album, after (er, ahead of) *Luxor*. OK. Can't comment, because I still haven't heard a note of Luxor. > i posted the lyrics at > Yikes. No wonder he never put that on an album! Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:32:56 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... On 10/15/06, Bri N wrote: > > > It was Seligman who played the bass on the Lizard on BSDR. Robyn played > the bass on Acid Bird. I always forget that. The bass on the studio version is oddly, erm, disco-sounding, whereas the Andybass from the live version on "Hen" sounds pretty normal. Full disclosure: I heard the live version first and have always preferred it.. Listening more to Ole T. It occured to me this album sounds a bit like > Perspex Island- not production wise, but the interweaving Hitchcock/Buck > guitar style way. I've been meaning to back-to-back the two records for just that reason. I'm a bigger fan of PI than most, and I was thinking that perhaps I'd finally hear the alleged dreadfullness of its production in comparison to O!T, which I think sounds terrific. (O!T has better songs, but I don't think Perspex is as weak in the song department as its reputation would have it; it may be the embodiment of the late '80's jangle sound, but it's played by the best janglers, and none of the other comparable records have as many, erm, Robyn Hitchcock songs on them.) > > Well, I've got to make more shirts now. Less than a month before the show! I am mighty peeved to be missing the LA show, but it wouldn't do not to show up at my own gig that night... plus, gotta be at Disneyland unholy early the next morning. Damn damn damn. I don't want to miss this band. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:34:33 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: 4'33" warning > Hey, looks like I made Quail's killfile... ;-) Fegmaniax is really dicey for me for some inexplicable reason. Sometimes I post and it takes *hours* to show up, other times some mail is delayed mysteriously. Or sometimes I get excited and post before I've finished reading a chunk of mail..... Does anyone else have that problem? I mean, the inconsistent Fegmail, not the premature postulation. - --Q ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:44:25 -0400 From: wojbearpig Subject: Re: 4'33" warning one time at band camp, The Great Quail (quail@libyrinth.com) said: >Fegmaniax is really dicey for me for some inexplicable reason. Sometimes I >post and it takes *hours* to show up, other times some mail is delayed >mysteriously. Or sometimes I get excited and post before I've finished >reading a chunk of mail..... smoe has the greylist milter installed to cut down on spam. as a result, some mail into smoe can be delayed depending on the behavior of various mail transfer agents. once a message gets to majordomo though, it shouldn't take long to get back out to the list. regular senders of mail to smoe addresses (including mailing lists) should be whitelisted, but i'm not exactly sure how that part works. if a note appears to be delayed, check the received: headers to see what happened to it. and you have any concerns, drop me a line and i'll check into things. woj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:45:42 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... On 10/15/06, 2fs wrote: > > > That is one thing I really hate about collectively submitted databases: > errors perpetuate nastily. A friend of mine released an album a couple of > years ago - and one track from that album showed up on several mixes (a > couple made by people who don't know him personally), and one song always > showed up with the same wrong title. (See also: the Wrens song that does > not > exist, "Everyone Chooses Sides.") I wish there were some sort of review > board or something at those databases where erroneous listings could be > found wanting and deleted. There must be some kind of review board for those things, but how does it work? I routinely send in corrections that are clear improvements, in that the call songs by the right names and stuff, but some errors just persist (vague memory of one such error being on a Robyn record... "Robyn Sings", I think, has tracks in the wrong order? "Desolation Row" and "Babt Blue" reversed or something?) and there are a few compilation records where Gracenote still has the artists and song names reversed despite my best efforts. Meanwhile sometimes you get two entry options for any given album, differentiated by naught but an accent mark here or there on a song title or two. Someone somewhere certainly sets conventions... for example, at some point clarifiers like "live" and "dance mix" started to invariably appear in brackets instead of parentheses. Which I kinda get, since parentheticals are so often part of a song title and the idea is to differentiate them, but "'Cause It's Love (Saint Parallelogram) [Live]" looks pretty lame to me. And I'd really like to see (Previously Unavailable) eradicated, because it doesn't stay true for very long. Could live without (Album Version) too, at least in most cases. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:20:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: 4'33" warning On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, The Great Quail wrote: > > Hey, looks like I made Quail's killfile... ;-) > > Fegmaniax is really dicey for me for some inexplicable reason. Sometimes I > post and it takes *hours* to show up, other times some mail is delayed > mysteriously. Or sometimes I get excited and post before I've finished > reading a chunk of mail..... > > Does anyone else have that problem? I mean, the inconsistent Fegmail, not > the premature postulation. Yes, the same thing happens to me all the time. I see a reply come before the original message a couple of times a week, more when posting is heavy. Indeed, I got woj's reply before Quail's message. - --Chris np: All my coworkers, since I stupidly left my iPod at home this morning. It's like I've been listening to 4'33" all day! ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:04:26 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Whoa http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,221001,00.html Looks like a fat paycheck for Tom. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:11:46 -0700 (PDT) From: bayard Subject: song ID needed hey all, I found a CD I cannot identify... some of the lyrics are as follows: Small boys grow up to be small men, Where it's dog eat dog or die. Right and wrong don't mean a thing, When you've got to feed your children. Some do it just for fun, Sign a form and draw a gun, Make those fucking faces run, Run, run, far awayayayay. [[Sometimes I get so worried, 'Bout the things I'm supposed to do, But I just switch off and pull the trigger, Chance of promotion getting bigger, Prospect for the Medal of Honour, ISoldier, Yeaheaheah, ISoldier, Chance of Promotion, ISoldier, Yeaheaheah, ISoldier]] Seems to be early 80s vintage, british, with a reggae beat. Probably something pretty obvious... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:20:25 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: iTunes 7 question On Oct 13, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Christopher Gross wrote: > Okay, so how the hell do you specify which fields you want to > include when > you export a playlist? I finally got a chance to look into this and found a machine still running iTunes 6 in the lab. Turns out there wasn't an obvious way (i.e., menu item) to do this in 6 either, but I did find an answer for you: Select all the songs in the playlist and hit Copy. You'll then have a tab-delimited representation of whatever your view choices are. Paste accordingly. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: 4'33" warning On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, The Great Quail wrote: > Does anyone else have that problem? I mean, the inconsistent Fegmail, > not the premature postulation. My last post was most assuredly premature postulation. I hadn't read all the shit that went down after the post to which I responded. Sure wish I had. Also, this one is written without the enlightenment of reading those that followed between then and now. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:25:28 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: I love my shirt On Oct 16, 2006, at 3:00 AM, hssmrg@bath.ac.uk wrote: >> where does robyn find those wonderful shirts? >> http://tadd.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/img_3118.jpg > > * Last time this was discussed he was getting them from Paul Scott > (now apparently Sir Paul according to this week's colour mag). Anybody have a link to his catalog? - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:35:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: song ID needed On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, bayard wrote: > I found a CD I cannot identify... some of the lyrics are as follows: > Small boys grow up to be small men, > Where it's dog eat dog or die. I found a reference online that calls the song "Local Hero", but no artist. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:31:36 +0100 From: "Matthijs van Geldere" Subject: 3 Kings Pub / 16-17 December Tickets for these shows have now arrived at the 3 Kings Pub in London UK. Picked ours up today, looking forward to the gigs! Cheers M ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:15:45 -0700 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Re: ain't that a shame? Hello all you fegs, First of all, I love Ole Tarantula (thanks to Stewart Russell and Caroline Smith who conspired to give me a copy while I was visiting Ontario last month). A friendly Feg meeting took place in Hamilton, Ontario a couple of weeks ago, where Caroline Smith and her husband Paul have moved. They introduced me to a vegan Chinese restaurant that was amazing. Since I was visiting my family nearby, we decided to get together, having become much better aquainted when they visited British Columbia last summer. On to the Broome wars: I am glad to see Rex apologize to Eb for the slander, though I must say Eb needles him mercilessly. Not sure what's the problem but there are delicate issues continually being stomped on. Painful to watch. But I have dectected some unfairness here, when Rex said: "We all know-- I think even Eb knows, since his behavior has been pointed out to him many times and he refuses to change it-- that Eb is an asshole." I don't dismiss anyone as an asshole and must give Eb credit for keeping the list alive and kicking when it went through many dull times, he keeps sparking musical discussion in various ways. Posting lists or whatever. Since we share a birthday I will wish him Happy Birthday here. I have just turned 53. Like Robyn I still manage to feel like riding a trolleybus every now and then. Barbara Soutar Victoria, BC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:38:25 +1300 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: second-hand news from Aussie From a friend in Australia: "Tonight: a crowd of 80 people, seated, and Natalie and I at a table at the front, a mere 3 metres from Mr H and the bassist, and no-one between us and the stage. Very civilised. The show was too short, 70 minutes, and very good. "Madonna of the wasps... Eight Miles High... "something to you to report to fegmaniax to correct the record. I had a number of CD covers for Robyn to sign, including my copy of the bootleg "A & M Demos 1993". He said of it, in ironic tones, 'I like the way they say 'studio' for these. I recorded them in my living room. A friend of mine lent me a DAT, and it was about the time Bob Dylan released "Good As I Have Been To You" where he went into a studio and cut an album of covers in a day. I wondered what I would do in that situation, what songs I would play. So that's what I did that day, using the DAT.'" James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:30:44 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Lordy, you must be so proud.... On 10/16/06, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > > > > On 10/15/06, 2fs wrote: > > > > > > That is one thing I really hate about collectively submitted databases: > > > Someone somewhere certainly sets conventions... for example, at some point > clarifiers like "live" and "dance mix" started to invariably appear in > brackets instead of parentheses. Which I kinda get, since parentheticals > are so often part of a song title and the idea is to differentiate them, but > "'Cause It's Love (Saint Parallelogram) [Live]" looks pretty lame to me. > And I'd really like to see (Previously Unavailable) eradicated, because it > doesn't stay true for very long. Could live without (Album Version) too, at > least in most cases. > My preference would be that the song title field be used only for the actual song title. Descriptors like "remix," "live," etc. should have their own field (similar to the way well-designed database programs have a separate field for articles - so you can alphabetize "The Shrieking Playboys" between "Shriekback" and "Shrieky Freak" like it should be.) I've been known to use that field somewhat bizarrely...as in entering a single apostrophe there for 'Til Tuesday, so it alphas in the Ts rather than at either end of the alphabet depending which alphabetization system is in use...(Windows files put it at the end, but the CD player in my car puts it before the alphabet) While I'm at it, I want to injure whoever formalized stupid capitalization doohickeys at last.fm...if only because they often get it wrong: some bands are arbitrarily lowercased, same with some song titles or album titles. (Local-ish example: there's a band with one member who's a colleague in the English department where I work that gets referred to on last.fm as "the willis." Now, I have no idea why the band is called The Willis...but even on the album cover art, it doesn't appear in all lower-case (in fact, it's all in uppercase). So what genius decided to enter it that way? (Their wbsite, I think, shows the name all in lowercase...but then again, the entire site is all lowercase. So: means nothing.) Incidentally, since I was trying to figure out why stupid capitalization and punctuation issues are annoying to me, and trying to avoid the conclusion that I was clearly an anal-obsessive insane person, I realized that it feels to me symptomatic of sizzle-selling. That is, it seems to me that bands who insist their name *always* appear in lowercase, or always be weirdly capitalized, seem to be trying to distinguish themselves (their *brand*, in fact - and the commercial aspect of that phenomenon, such as corporate intercapitalization, bugs me too) by trivial signifiers rather than by, say, their actual music. It's as if the energy they expend making sure everyone knows they're tHe wInDyPoPeS would be better spent, say, writing a good song. Or the energy people expend trying to make it illegal to look the wrong way at a flag might be better expended not torturing people in its name, say. But that's all I have to say right now - I'm off to have dinner with a set of plastic dolls. They get very upset when I'm late. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #246 ********************************