From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #235 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, October 6 2006 Volume 15 : Number 235 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Groovy DK ["Bri N" ] Re: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. ["Jason R. Thornton" ] deja vu thoth ["ken ostrander" ] Re: deja vu thoth ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] reeeeeeeeeeeeap [Eb ] Re: deja vu thoth [Eb ] Re: deja vu thoth [Eb ] Re: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 07:13:16 -0700 From: "Bri N" Subject: Re: Groovy DK What was wrong with the bloke Pat thingy from the Vibrators who produced Underwater Moonlight? I don't know anything about Tony Mansfield, though I bet my mate David Cameron Dudley ('Feeling Hungry In Peckham / Feeling Hungry In Tooting') does. - - Mike Godwin - --------------- Nothing! Pat's production is fitting and perfect for both UM and BSDR (with is my fav RH album)... and I'm sure he would done great of GD to, but Robyn has said at the time he wanted something that sounded like it was from the (then) current times. Tony Mansfield production screamed early 80's, but it was clever, very clever. It was just a dream I had to hear him do some Robyn stuff... Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 08:06:13 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. At 06:10 PM 10/5/2006, 2fs wrote: >If that's "unintentional," it's sloppiness of the highest order. Once again, >you're faced with the classic choice: either Fox is lying, or it's >incompetent. False dichotomy. >Your call. Which one would you prefer? I'd prefer some honesty and rationality out of the left, but as I've seen on this list, that just never happens. Either provide a sliver of evidence that the simple goof was intentional, or shut up. >Finally, if you can find a left-wing media outlet as prominent as Fox News >is on the right (already, I'm pretty sure I've defined the quest as >impossible) which not only distorted information, but did so repeatedly, and >that distorted information was a simple matter of elementary fact (not >anything that's up for debate), well, okay then... CBS, NBC, etc. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 12:13:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > At 06:10 PM 10/5/2006, 2fs wrote: > >Finally, if you can find a left-wing media outlet as prominent as Fox News > >is on the right (already, I'm pretty sure I've defined the quest as > >impossible) which not only distorted information, but did so repeatedly, and > >that distorted information was a simple matter of elementary fact (not > >anything that's up for debate), well, okay then... > > CBS, NBC, etc. I sometimes misunderstand people, so please help me out here. Are you positing CBS and NBC as "left-wing media outlets"? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:57:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > At 06:10 PM 10/5/2006, 2fs wrote: >> If that's "unintentional," it's sloppiness of the highest order. Once >> again, you're faced with the classic choice: either Fox is lying, or >> it's incompetent. > > False dichotomy. If there's a false dichotomy, Jason, you should probably point out a third possibility. If Fox was neither incompetent nor lying, how did they end up running something so obviously erroneous THREE TIMES? > Either provide a sliver of evidence that the simple goof was > intentional, or shut up. First, a simple goof would have been to run it once (and still a tiny bit surprising), but to run it three times goes beyond "simple goof" and into "incompetence". And you'll recall that Jeff did offer that as an option. They might not have done it intentionally... they could be incompetent. Lacking evidence of the former, we're left with the latter. ... unless you have a third option that isn't merely apologist suspension of disbelief. I might comment on the belief that CBS and NBC are left-wing media outlets when I stop giggling. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 11:13:40 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. At 10:57 AM 10/6/2006, Capuchin wrote: >On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Jason R. Thornton wrote: >>At 06:10 PM 10/5/2006, 2fs wrote: >>>If that's "unintentional," it's sloppiness of the highest order. >>>Once again, you're faced with the classic choice: either Fox is >>>lying, or it's incompetent. >> >>False dichotomy. > >If there's a false dichotomy, Jason, you should probably point out a >third possibility. The fact that they made a simple mistake WAS pointed out. >If Fox was neither incompetent nor lying, how did they end up >running something so obviously erroneous THREE TIMES? Oh my god!!! They made a FUCKING MISTAKE. >First, a simple goof would have been to run it once (and still a >tiny bit surprising), but to run it three times goes beyond "simple >goof" and into "incompetence". In the opinion of left-wing hyperbolists, sure. >And you'll recall that Jeff did offer that as an option. They might >not have done it intentionally... they could be >incompetent. Lacking evidence of the former, we're left with the latter. A simple typo does not equate to incompetence, no matter how vehemently you and Jeff claim it does. >... unless you have a third option that isn't merely apologist >suspension of disbelief. Blah blah blah blah blah blah. >I might comment on the belief that CBS and NBC are left-wing media >outlets when I stop giggling. You're so cute when you try to be clever. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:44:30 -0400 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Battle of the Album Covers (No RH cover art...) http://motionographer.com/media/battle_adbands-w.mov ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:00:03 EDT From: HSatterfld@aol.com Subject: DC City Paper reviews Hitchcock and Buckingham I've included both reviews below, since the writer tried to tie them together. Rated PG-13 for quoting rude lyrics about trolleybuses. URL includes gratuitous photo of Robyn shaving. In From the Cult by Mark Jenkins _http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/music/2006/music1006.html?navCenterBot_ (http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/music/2006/music1006.html?navCenterBot) The unrepentant folk-rocker ripples an acoustic guitar and contemplates his place in the pop universe: bRead in the paper/Saw a review/Said I was a visionary/But nobody knew/Now thatbs been a problem/Feeling unseen/Just like Ibm living/Somebodybs dream.b That could be Robyn Hitchcock, reflecting on 30 years as a cult artist. But it doesnbt sound like him, does it? The former Soft Boy rarely expresses himself so directly; when he sings bI,b hebs usually assuming the persona of someone or something he couldnbt possibly be. Besides, all indications are that Hitchcock likes being a cult artist. Hebs worked hard to stay semisubmerged, despite spending more than a decade (mostly in the b90s) contracted to one of two indulgent major labels. Whenever mainstream acceptance beckoned, Hitchcock boltedbusually to make an album of stripped-down sorta-folkie songs that relied on acoustic guitar and a few friends. Eventually, though, his pop-rock instincts would recuperate and he would record an unexpectedly accessible set. For example, the shimmering new OlC)! Tarantula, his most outgoing release since 1991bs Perspex Island. So itbs not Hitchcock whobs gazing into the mirror, considering his obscurity. In fact, the self-styled visionary whobs all alone with his guitar and voice is a man whose cult-artist status is arguable: Lindsey Buckingham. The guy bs actually had a few Top 20 solo singles, and if his albums are occasional at best, thatbs because he keeps canceling them and ceding his new songs to his other project, Fleetwood Mac, which just happens to be one of the most commercially successful rock bands ever. If Buckinghambs feeling unseen, it must be because Stevie Nicksb scarves keep fluttering in front of his face in the 20,000-seat arenas. bNot Too Late,b which contains the career analysis quoted above, opens Under the Skin, which is Buckinghambs fourth solo album, and his first since 1992b s Out of the Cradle. The tune, which is nothing but voice and finger-picked guitar, is typical of the albumbs style. Although some of the songs are lushly stratified, notably with layer upon of layer of vocals, the overall vibe is intimate. Reverb is one of Buckinghambs favorite studio embellishments, and Under the Skin is a sort of echo chamber in which the singer-songwriter can achieve a private grandeur. Fleetwood and Mac (drummer Mick Fleetwood and bassist John McVie) play on two of these 11 tracks, and therebs a horn section on one, but the rest is all Buckinghambglossy, melodic, and a little too airtight. Hitchcock once released a version of the Byrdsb bEight Miles Highb in which he recalled where he was the year the song was released. That was 1966, apparently also a crucial moment for Buckingham. Under the Skin includes two covers, both from that year: the Rolling Stonesb bI Am Waitingb and Donovanbs b Try for the Sun.b Both are showcases for Buckinghambs production skills, and touchstones for his vision, which melds British-invasion rock with California studio-pop perfectionism. Yet neither qualifies as an interpretation, let alone a personal one. Theybre just well-constructed and plushly textured. Sometimes, thatbs enough. Such Under the Skin numbers as bIt Was Youb and especially bShow You Howb transform elementary rhythmic hooks and complex vocal arrangements into the stuff of rapture. In that sense, Buckingham has recaptured the spirit of b66: His songs sound fresh, vital, and enchanted with the possibilities of multitracked, amplified timbres. What they donbt do is reveal orbtheir sonic invention asidebsurprise. Buckingham is a master of the gleaming surface, but he never quite goes where his album title promises. - --------- Robyn Hitchcockbs last U.S. release, Spooked, was a collaboration with David Rawlings and Gillian Welch, those masters of counterfeit Appalachiana. Yet if the instrumentation was down-homebsave for the electric sitarbthe melodies were urbane and contemporary. That almost-extroverted set leads naturally to the mostly electrified OlC)! Tarantula, which hops from Nashville to Seattle and hooks up with a new bunch of old pals. Peter Buck, Scott McCaughey, and Bill Rieflin (R.E.M., Young Fresh Fellows, Minus Five) are the Venus 3, the disc bs principal band, but onetime Soft Boys Kimberley Rew and Morris Windsor also appear, along with members of groups as disparate as the Small Faces and the Presidents of the United States. (XTCbs Andy Partridge also makes a disembodied appearance, having co-written one of the songs.) This is not Hitchcock in his solitary-troubadour mode, dreaming of trains. That doesnbt mean that the singer-songwriter has forgotten about public transportation. One of the albumbs more memorable couplets is bThe Authority Box bbs injunction to bfuck me, baby/Ibm a trolleybus.b What counts there, though, is not the btrolleybusb but the bfuckbband the sitarlike guitars, which bend notes, sustain tones, and finally stage a brief lockstep procession to the songbs coda. Hitchcock has rediscovered sex, surrealism, and Byrdsian rock bnb roll. This combination recalls the inspired period that culminated in Perspex Island, when new romance inspired Hitchcock to sing about passion with enthusiasm rather than alarm. In earlier days, he often treated lust as a form of afflictionbmost memorably in bKingdom of Love,b which depicted mating as creepily entomological. Hitchcock rarely makes an album without something that evokes a natural-history documentary, and this time both the title tune and bRed Locust Frenzyb employ buggy imagery. (Technically, the natural historian notes, tarantulas are arachnids.) But most of these songs are more about people than insects, and they regard human intimacy not with dread but with high-harmonied elation. When Hitchcock enters the bMuseum of Sexb to implore someone to b kiss me btil therebs no tomorrow,b he makes it sound like a life-affirming form of oblivion. bAdventure Rocket Ship,b bUnderground Sun,b and bbCause Itbs Love (Saint Parallelogram)b all climax with multiple voices cooing a single word, and those words are, respectively, bstar,b bsun,b and blovebb not bfish,b bbones,b or bdead.b Death has always been one of Hitchcockbs fixations, and hebs been accused of using the subject to shirk reality. So itbs notable that this album ends with a song about a stiff thatbs devoid of whimsy or absurdity. One of the albumb s folkier numbers, bN.Y. Dollb is a gentle tribute to Arthur bKillerb Kane: bOne in a million/People touch you/How do I explain?b Written in the late bassistbs imagined voice, the song provides Hitchcock with yet another persona, but one thatbs neither distancing nor trivializing. bN.Y. Dollb is a death song that doesnbt diminish life and an unexpectedly moving conclusion to an album thatbs more than a return to form. OlC)! Tarantula doesnbt just rediscover the joy of close harmonies and twin-guitar chimebit also puts them to the service of a worldview thatbs gratifyingly uncultish. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:22:55 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Battle of the Album Covers (No RH cover art...) > http://motionographer.com/media/battle_adbands-w.mov This one is making the rounds...this already is the third time today I've been given this link. Reminds me of that ubiquitous Tower Records "Find 75 bands in this picture" piece from several months back. I'll give the same response which I gave to someone else: It's almost brilliant but, given all the obvious skills involved, it's a shame that the animators couldn't come up with a concept more clever than "Hey, let's have 'em shoot and bomb each other & stuff!! Blood gore yeah!!" Maybe I just don't have enough of a video-game mentality. I listened to that 50 Foot Wave CD a bit ago. DAMN, that rocks hard. Too bad Hersh's voice is so tragically blown out nowadays -- it's a major, major handicap here. But now I really want to see this group live -- this would NOT be redundant with seeing Throwing Muses. I'm also partway through Grizzly Bear's Yellow House -- I think this may be a good new discovery for me. Too bad they JUST played live in my area, a week ago. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 14:02:12 -0700 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. Jason Thorton wrote: > >If that's "unintentional," it's sloppiness of the highest order. Once > again, > >you're faced with the classic choice: either Fox is lying, or it's > >incompetent. > > False dichotomy. > > >Your call. Which one would you prefer? > > I'd prefer some honesty and rationality out of the left, but as I've > seen on this list, that just never happens. > > Either provide a sliver of evidence that the simple goof was > intentional, or shut up. > > >Finally, if you can find a left-wing media outlet as prominent as Fox > News > >is on the right (already, I'm pretty sure I've defined the quest as > >impossible) which not only distorted information, but did so repeatedly, > and > >that distorted information was a simple matter of elementary fact (not > >anything that's up for debate), well, okay then... > > CBS, NBC, etc. I'll be more specific for you, Jason--I was just listening to an interview with the political director of ABC News about how they broke the coverage of Foleygate. Due to sloppiness, they initially reported that the page-in-question was 16, not 18 as he actually was, when the explicit IMs were exchanged and this not only distorted the situation (it gave a situation which has an air of impropriety an air of illegality), but one that certainly is one that is being used as a lever by the left to try to force not only the resignation of Foley (appropriate) but also Hastert (maybe not so appropriate). The fact that he was 16 when they initially met and exchanged emails (which have been described as innocent) has been carefully juxtaposed with IMs with 18+ young men that were not so innocent. I guess it doesn't help that a Soros-funded group was the one who shopped this info around to several different sources before ABC bit. Not like they were trying to get their story out but rather trying to attack and, when they released on their webpage the IMs they apparently didn't care that they released the identity of the recipient of the IMs because they were in such a hurry to make hay while the political sun shined. I would say that the ABC error was somewhere several orders of magnitude worse than the Fox one. And don't even get me started on Rathergate.... Marc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 17:51:44 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: My name is Eb, and yes, God came down from the mountain and defined once and for all what it means for an album to be Sister Lovers-like 2fs wrote: > On 10/4/06, Luther Paisley wrote: >> >> That seems like an odd stance for someone who believes in personal >> responsibility. Or.... do you think the government should regulate >> everyone >> else, and you should get to do whatever you want? > > > > Well that's certainly what I believe: Ferris should get to do whatever he > wants, and everyone else should be regulated. It's called "Ferrisocracy": > look it up. > > Oh wait: I'm confusing Ferris with a superhot nymphomaniac babe. Never mind. And who's saying I'm not a superhot nyphomaniac babe? Huh?!? I just think it's ridiculous that I've got to get a license to *fish* in this state, but any two clods can breed with impunity. Seems a bit strange. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 17:54:38 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Reap Gene Janson, one of the Good Ole Boys from the Blues Brothers, died with his boots on. http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/06/D8KJC0U80.html Veteran Actor Collapses Onstage, Dies Twenty minutes into the performance of "The Best Man" at a Chicago theater, veteran stage actor Gene Janson, onstage with fellow performer David Darlow, unexpectedly put his head in his hands. When Darlow asked Janson if he was OK, "He replied that he was not," said James Bohnen, artistic director of the Remy Bumppo Theatre Company, which is producing the play. Darlow rushed off the stage to get help, and a nurse in the matinee audience came to Janson's aid. Janson, 72, was taken Wednesday to Lincoln Park Hospital, where he died shortly after of a heart attack, said his son, Christopher Janson. "There is a certain poetic irony to his death," Christopher Janson said. "He died doing what he loved, which was being on the stage and in a play he was so proud of." In the Gore Vidal drama, Janson portrayed a fictional former U.S. president who dies unexpectedly. Bohnen said the role was one of Janson's finest in a 50-year career. "He brought so much to his character," Bohnen said. "He was having the time of his life with this part." Janson worked mainly on the stage, although his film credits included "The Blues Brothers," "While You Were Sleeping," and "My Best Friend's Wedding." He also appeared in TV shows and commercials. Janson was familiar to Chicagoans as a pledge drive spokesman for public station WTTW-TV, a job he held for more than 20 years. Remy Bumppo planned to resume "The Best Man" with an understudy in Janson's role, a spokesman said Friday. The company has dedicated the rest of the play's run at Chicago's Victory Gardens Greenhouse Theater to his memory. Besides his son, Janson is survived by a wife, two daughters and four grandchildren. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 17:55:52 -0400 From: "ken ostrander" Subject: deja vu thoth so sorry. due to the inexplicable (i don't know why it happened. i painstakingly double-checked everything; but the returns didn't register when it came to the list, and it resulted in a confusing read where you couldn't tell who said what) formating errors i'm resubmitting this. from fegmaniax-digest V15 #233 From: "ken ostrander" Subject: random thoths Sebastian Hagedorn Hagedorn@spinfo.uni-koeln.de >>>>>>>>>>>>>Turns out that's an Austrian band named Luxor :-( I figured it was my >mistake and I never tried to return it. Eventually I got the CD I actually >wanted. Well, that was certainly a waste of money, because they're *both* >crap ... ;-)<<<<<<< weird. i was listening to the topical crap when i read this. i have to say that i do skip around a bit. i like to start at the titular instrumental. what is robyn's fascination with denial...i mean, the nile anyhow? is it the book of the dead? the hermaphroditic mummies? the cream? and how did this come to pass?: http://www.egyptgiftshop.com/egypt_dvd_shop Eb ElBroome@earthlink.net >>>>>>Well, if nothing else, at least this discussion showed why you think >there is such a lengthy list of albums which are Sister Lovers-esque. >With criteria this loose and forgiving, noooo wonder.<<<<<<<<<<<<<< it's certainly more interesting and entertaining (to me) than random lists from amazon based on it's attempts to sell you more product. Eb ElBroome@earthlink.net >>>>>>>There's a difference between "influence" or "appreciation," and >EMULATION. <<<<<<<<<<< no, there's a difference between "facts" and "opinions". is someone going to emulate an album that they don't appreciate? wouldn't such an album be an influence? "Spotted Eagle Ray" spottedeagleray@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>Good god, do I have to fax you my degree or IQ test or *what* to convince you that maybe, just possibly, I am not stupid and there might occasionally be validity to my opinions?<<<<<<<<<<< this is where you lost me. don't try to change the unchangeable. reflect on this koan: "While All is in THE ALL, it is equally true that THE ALL is in All." FSThomas >>>>>>>>>>>>>Note to self: petition state representatives to draft legislation for >parenting licenses.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< sounds like government interferance to me. next you'll be suggesting is that we tax the rich. Carrie Galbraith >>>>>>>>>>>ps: the sickest news I've heard in a long time is what happened in >Washington last Thursday when the constitution was completely scrapped >and King George came in to his own.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< it's hard to wrap your brain around it; but i believe that the roman republic only lasted two hundred years. theodius >>>>>>>>>>>>The guest on his television program, beamed across Venezuela, >was Cindy Sheehan, the antiwar activist. Chavez recently had as his >guest Harry Belafonte, who called President Bush "the greatest terrorist >in the world."<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< agreed. pre-emptive war is terrorism. hey, hugo and i are both reading the same author. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214709,00.html i've been creeping (and creeped out) through 'failed states', listening to 'modern times' (and various treasures from the local library like 'the who sell out' and 'jaco pastorius'), waiting for my copy of 'ole' to arrive. i could've just held on and bought it at the local hipster music emporium; but no, i was suckered in by the extra track at yep roc. how long does it take to ship a cd? what did i pay shipping for? ken " the country of my fathers, a proud land of old order, like a goldfish being swallowed by a whale" the kenster ps. is it a coincidence that 'ole' and the dvd of 'the little mermaid' were released on the same day? who knows? that lean-old mean-old inbetween-old half unclean-old duke of squeeze? - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:40:52 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: deja vu thoth On 10/6/06, ken ostrander wrote: > > > i've > been creeping (and creeped out) through 'failed states', listening > to 'modern times' (and various treasures from the local library like 'the > who sell out' and 'jaco pastorius'), waiting for my copy of 'ole' to > arrive. i could've just held on and bought it at the local hipster music > emporium; but no, i was suckered in by the extra track at yep roc. how > long does it take to ship a cd? what did i pay shipping for? Did you pre-order? Weird, most of us got ours a good week before the official release date. "Modern Times" is pretty good, but "Belltown Ramble" is the best Dylan tune of the year. The Tarantuala-Mermaid thing, I dunno, but I reckon I'll end up with copies of both on my shelf before the year's out. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:43:25 -0700 From: Eb Subject: reeeeeeeeeeeeap Tower Records bankruptcy filing to result in liquidation RANDALL CHASE Associated Press WILMINGTON, Del. - After a lengthy auction stretching over two days, a federal bankruptcy judge on Friday approved sale of California- based Tower Records to Great American Group, which plans to liquidate the music retailer. After almost 30 hours of what attorneys described as "robust" and "vigorous" bidding, Great American won with a bid of $134.3 million, beatingTrans World Entertainment, which had hoped to continue operating at least some Tower stores, by only $500,000. Peter Gurfein, an attorney representing Tower Records, said the company will be sold for an aggregate of $150 million, including the sale of various leases and properties. Gurfein said Great American plans to begin the liquidation process and going out of business sales on Saturday. Tower Records, which has 89 stores in 20 states and owes creditors about $200 million, filed for Chapter 11 reorganization in August. In its filing, Tower said it has been hurt by an industrywide decline in music sales, downloading of online music and competition from big-box stores such as Wal-Mart. Tower's Chapter 11 filing came two years after initial bankruptcy that resulted in bondholders forgiving millions of dollars in debt but taking an 85 percent stake in the company, leaving founder Ruses Solomon and his family with 15 percent. Solomon founded Tower in Sacramento, Calif., in 1960, starting by selling records out of his father's drug store and eventually opening the company's landmark store on Hollywood's Sunset Boulevard in 1969. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:50:15 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: deja vu thoth ken ostrander wrote: > it's certainly more interesting and entertaining (to me) than random > lists from amazon based on it's attempts to sell you more product. Ooh, you're all like anti-capitalist and stuff. Kewl! They weren't "random lists." Those titles were plucked from a larger list, and seemed like albums which could provoke discussion here. Except so few subscribers talk about music anymore. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:50:15 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: deja vu thoth ken ostrander wrote: > it's certainly more interesting and entertaining (to me) than random > lists from amazon based on it's attempts to sell you more product. Ooh, you're all like anti-capitalist and stuff. Kewl! They weren't "random lists." Those titles were plucked from a larger list, and seemed like albums which could provoke discussion here. Except so few subscribers talk about music anymore. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 18:14:16 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Bleakest. Political Argument. Ever. On 10/6/06, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > > > >If Fox was neither incompetent nor lying, how did they end up > >running something so obviously erroneous THREE TIMES? > > Oh my god!!! They made a FUCKING MISTAKE. I believe that repeating a "fucking mistake" (whether or not it's in all-caps) three times is what is known, in the business of reporting facts, as "incompetence." If your job involved fact-catching, and you let something go through three times, how would you defend your actions if a supervisor was weighing disciplinary action against you? "OMG it's a fucking mistake"? > A simple typo does not equate to incompetence, no matter how > vehemently you and Jeff claim it does. No, it doesn't. Not catching it - not once not twice but three times - does. But I will respectfully drop this part of the discussion, as we're focusing on trivia rather than substance. Such as: On 10/6/06, Marc Alberts wrote: > > > I'll be more specific for you, Jason--I was just listening to an interview > with the political director of ABC News about how they broke the coverage > of > Foleygate. Due to sloppiness, they initially reported that the > page-in-question was 16, not 18 as he actually was, when the explicit IMs > were exchanged and this not only distorted the situation (it gave a > situation which has an air of impropriety an air of illegality), but one > that certainly is one that is being used as a lever by the left to try to > force not only the resignation of Foley (appropriate) but also Hastert > (maybe not so appropriate). The fact that he was 16 when they initially > met > and exchanged emails (which have been described as innocent) has been > carefully juxtaposed with IMs with 18+ young men that were not so > innocent. > I guess it doesn't help that a Soros-funded group was the one who shopped > this info around to several different sources before ABC bit. Not like > they > were trying to get their story out but rather trying to attack and, when > they released on their webpage the IMs they apparently didn't care that > they > released the identity of the recipient of the IMs because they were in > such > a hurry to make hay while the political sun shined. > > I would say that the ABC error was somewhere several orders of magnitude > worse than the Fox one. And don't even get me started on Rathergate.... Shall we argue over these trivial facts, over whether the page was 16 when it started - or shall we point out that an adult male was attempting to start a relationship with a young man who was either (a) underage, if the early e-mails were initially sniffing out the possibility of a relationship, or (b) considerably younger than him, and in his capacity as page not a proper object of his affections regardless of what you might think of the age difference? (Even if I were unmarried, it would be regarded as creepy and inappropriate for me to pursue a relationship with an 18-year-old student. And I'm eight years younger than Foley. 52-year-olds pursuing 18-year-olds is creepy, period.) I shall refrain from assuming that as a Republican, the formerly closeted Foley ever voted for anti-gay measures, or ever speechified about "family values." Instead, we will focus on whether a network munged some info, and whether in so doing, they somehow gave more ammo to the left (as if the left needed more ammo when an adult is IMing barely legal pages). Your reference to "Rathergate" is equally nearsighted: yes, there was crappy journalism and someone's dubious sense of ethics in what certainly looks like a forged document...but overlooked (once again) is that the issue at hand - George W. Bush's unlikely career as a reserveman - was not disputed. If Bush was where he was supposed to be (and that he got *into* the reserve was questionable in the first place), why hasn't he proven it? If he was where he was supposed to be, proving it wouldn't be difficult. He did not: what conclusion do you draw? Would the military just lose track of a member of a powerful and politically prominent family? (Incidentally, I would say the same thing about his careful denials of cocaine usage *after a certain date*. I've never used cocaine. If someone asked me, have I ever used cocaine, my answer would be a simple "no." Why would I have to answer anything but *no* if the answer is no?) But instead we're all about when Times New Roman was available on electric typewriters. Of course, even the more serious issues involved here are trivial compared to attempts to trash the Constitution and legalize torture. That's what really makes me sick about this administration. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ps: Substantive evidence that CBS and ABC pursue a "liberal" or "leftist" agenda as far right as Fox's right-wing agenda, please. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #235 ********************************