From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #219 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, September 21 2006 Volume 15 : Number 219 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Random celebrity question [2fs ] Re: Random celebrity question [FSThomas ] My name is "Eb", and my peenis is always hard ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: softs ["Gene Hopstetter Jr." ] Un-Reap [Jeff Dwarf ] Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Ghastly [Christopher Hintz ] Re: My name is "Eb", and my peenis is always hard [FSThomas ] Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! [Dolph Chaney ] VGPS [FSThomas ] RE: Ghastly ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! [Tom Clark ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V15 #218 [hssmrg@bath.ac.uk] Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Wait, now... [Christopher Hintz ] Re: reap [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: Happy Boy! [Eb ] Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! ["Brian Nupp" ] Re: VGPS [Steve Schiavo ] RE: reap [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: reap [FSThomas ] Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Ghastly ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: reap [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: reap [2fs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:35:44 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Random celebrity question On 9/21/06, Capuchin wrote: > > > Bridget's dad, Peter Fonda, gave her away... I cannot believe journalists are still referring to marriage by saying the bride's father "gave her away." What the fuck is this, the 17th century? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:42:29 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: Random celebrity question 2fs wrote: > I cannot believe journalists are still referring to marriage by saying the > bride's father "gave her away." > > What the fuck is this, the 17th century? Well "marriage" in the traditional sense is such an anitquated ideal in the first place. And having a *priest* from a *church* perform the ceremony? How quaint! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:15:17 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: My name is "Eb", and my peenis is always hard i'm beginning to think that chavez is the next marcos. but what amazes me is that he doesn't feel the need to hide behind a mask...or even to refrain from riding in airplanes. that may be the signal indicator of the bush administration's impotence. right. while the u.s. economy floats atop a sea of debt -- but *without* the social programmes. ferris, are you dissing chavez for *not* taking the kleptrocrat route? you copied that sentence out of *Lord Of The Rings*, right? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:53:42 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: It's good to see "Robyn Hitchcock &" on the spine! Ole Tarantula showed up for me, too. Listening as well, and liking. I have a feeling it might beat out the new Who album in my year-end top 10. I just hope "Red Locust Frenzy" is as cool as its title. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:58:12 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter Jr." Subject: Re: One last biatch ;) > From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" > >> The Starlight Mints-Drowaton > > Anyone? Their previous record holds up pretty well. It's a good one. Crunchy, poppy goodness. It helped me forget just how mind-fuckingly-awful The Fiery Furnaces have become. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:10:30 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter Jr." Subject: Re: softs Mike Godwin writ: > * Soft Machine 1 is a great psychedelic album with Kevin Ayers on it > performing such classics as 'I did it again' and 'Why am I so short?'. > Soft Machine 2 is more jazz-rock, though less so than subsequent > records, as Robert Wyatt is still singing some of the early material. Oh yes. Good stuff. Essential. Bongwater went on to cover "We Did It Again" and "Why Are We Sleeping?" too. "I'm nearly 5 ft. 7 tall/ I like to smoke and drink and ball / I've got a yellow suit that's made by Pam / And every day I like an egg and some tea / But best of all I like to talk about me!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Un-Reap The Sugarcubes (but only for one gig in Reykjavmk) http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/38706/Sugarcubes_Einar_Orn_Talks_Reunion . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:41:09 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! Well, that's really quite a good record. The Dylan immersion pays off nicely here. Well-sequenced and everything. Seems like "Embryo Swirl" could've fit on there without much trouble, eh? - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:01:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: Random celebrity question On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, 2fs wrote: > On 9/21/06, Capuchin wrote: > > > > > > Bridget's dad, Peter Fonda, gave her away... > > > > I cannot believe journalists are still referring to marriage by saying the > bride's father "gave her away." > > What the fuck is this, the 17th century? People still "give the bride away" at many wedding ceremonies--I assume they were merely reporting that fact? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:04:20 -0400 From: Christopher Hintz Subject: Ghastly ew, there's mellow saxophones on track 3 Actually, I like OT even better than Spooked (and, before you feg- bastards start a-squabblin', I liked Spooked) Yeproc sent the CD, but no stickers this time : ( haven't popped in the bonus CD yet last time they were hand-burned, this time it's all promo-y Rev ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:46:33 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and my peenis is always hard Stacked Crooked wrote: > i'm beginning to think that chavez is the next marcos. but what amazes me > is that he doesn't feel the need to hide behind a mask...or even to refrain > from riding in airplanes. that may be the signal indicator of the bush > administration's impotence. It's because he's arguably *insane.* If any trouble does come from him -- and I don't even mean directly to the US but to, say, a neighboring nation -- who gets the thank you card? Jimmy Carter, (equally arguably) the worst president since Harding. > right. while the u.s. economy floats atop a sea of debt -- but *without* > the social programmes. ferris, are you dissing chavez for *not* taking the > kleptrocrat route? I would argue that a move away from social programs is a sign of success, not failure. Ours has never been a cradle-to-grave society with the left (and small chunks of the right) drifting towards that mentality since the mid-thirties. Any step away from personal responsibility and individuality towards herd mentality and nation-state lifetime benefit is a step towards the grave not only for the US economy but the country as a whole. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:13:46 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Ghastly On 9/21/06, Christopher Hintz wrote: > > ew, there's mellow saxophones on track 3 They come back again later. And I like them both times! The live tracks on the bonus disc are a little wobbly, but energetic... sounds like Rieflin is still making up his parts, which is cool and all but conspicuously different from the studio version. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:16:02 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! Got to agree. I'm particularly delighted with the last 4 songs, which have him out further on a furry limb than I think he's been since the Egyptians. I'd seen the new, rough songs on OBLITERATION PIE as a hint that some rock-a-wooliness might be to come, and here it is. At 12:41 PM 9/21/2006, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: >Well, that's really quite a good record. The Dylan immersion pays off >nicely here. Well-sequenced and everything. > >Seems like "Embryo Swirl" could've fit on there without much trouble, eh? > >-SER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:41:47 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: VGPS Found a nice (Windows-only, probably) video of the Kinks playing Village Green Preservation Society from 1973. http://www.transbuddha.com/mediaHolder.php?id=2259 I'd like to see the whole set. Apparently it's from a BBC Kinks In Concert special. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:55:58 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Ghastly The Rev Chris stated: >ew, there's mellow saxophones on track 3 >Actually, I like OT even better than Spooked (and, before you feg- >bastards start a-squabblin', I liked Spooked) I wonder how high OT will ascend to as far as RH favorites among us fegs? Is it his best since Moss Elixir/Mossy Liquor 10 years ago? I am not including Nextdoorland, which I tend to think should rank in a separate Soft Boys category. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:19:14 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! On Sep 21, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Dolph Chaney wrote: > Got to agree. I'm particularly delighted with the last 4 songs, > which have him out further on a furry limb than I think he's been > since the Egyptians. I'd seen the new, rough songs on OBLITERATION > PIE as a hint that some rock-a-wooliness might be to come, and here > it is. > > At 12:41 PM 9/21/2006, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: >> Well, that's really quite a good record. The Dylan immersion pays >> off >> nicely here. Well-sequenced and everything. >> >> Seems like "Embryo Swirl" could've fit on there without much >> trouble, eh? Dammit, I wanted to be the first to use that subject line!!! It really is an excellent record; maybe not as energetic as their live shows, but a lot better sounding (does that make sense?). I've always had a love/hate relationship with "Briggs", in that the idea sounded better than the implementation, but this recording of it is aces. Conversely, I think "Underground Sun" sounds better live. Current fave on the rekkid is "'Cause it's Love". btw, anybody have recording years for the tracks on Invisible Hits? I can wait to get home to check the sleeve, but if someone's got them handy... Same with Invisible Hitchcock. Or maybe it was down in San Jose, I can't recall... - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:21:49 +0100 From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V15 #218 Quoting fegmaniax-digest : >> The Byrds-Byrds > The '70's reunion of the original lineup? 'Sokay at best. Couple of Neil > Young covers. Not as bad as you might think, but certainly no better than > the records by the latter-day Clarence White Byrds who were all shit-canned > to facilitate the making of this record. * Oh right - that's the record you were thinking of. Moderately good cover of 'From A Distance', otherwise quite forgettable. > > I've generally been disappointed with compilations of bands whose singles > rock like hell on Nuggets/Pebbles-style psych compilation. Usually you get > one or two more killer singles or b-sides, and filler filler (rehearsal > tapes, live stuff, indifferent covers, shit released under the band's name > but sessions guys playing). * Absolutely. > > Those "latter-day Clarence White Byrds" albums all have a few very > good songs on them, which makes them still listenable to me. * Why did they edit the key section out of 'Chestnut Mare', then? It's like 'Layla' without the interminable coda. > Sorry if I was unclear... the reunion record is largely below the benchmark > maintained by the White/Battin/Gene-but-not-that Gene > Parsons-but-not-that-Parsons Byrds. There are good songs and great playing > on a lot of those records, although some of the material is slight, and I > really despise the live side of "Untitled", with the side-long, > bass-solo-having vivisection of "Eight Miles High". * Saw them twice, both with Clarence White, and once they were excellent and the other time the whole show was ruined by a loud sounding buzz from the PA. As with so many live performances, the stretched out '8MH' seemed great at the time but didn't stand up to repeated listening. Still, at least it wasn't 'America's great national pastime'. > > Part of me is certain that Jeffrey (at the least) was popping fists in > the air and yelling "Hell, yeah!" with is inside voice. After all the > current administration *is* the devil, we all deal with the smell of > burnt sulfur on a daily basis and we *definitely* belittle women and > suppress dissent on a daily basis. * Sulphur - we had a big row about this two or three years ago when the crazed imperialist hyenas tried to impose Noah Webster on an unsuspecting public. > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:35:59 -0400 > Subject: RE: fegmaniax-digest V15 #217 > > MG wrote: >> On the topic of compilation tapes, I found some recently and did a >> straight swap in my car, trading in the CD thing for a tape player. It >> turns out that in 1993 I was listening to the Rain Parade, Gram >> Parsons, the 3rd Velvets album, and the Troggs. > > From: "Bachman, Michael" > Nothing wrong with those by a long shot Mike! I do need to pick up some > Troggs on cd though. I still have my Love Is All Around album on vinyl by > the Troggs that I bought in 1969. * I keep telling people that the Troggs' version of 'Mona' wipes the Stones version out totally, but no-one believes me. - - Mike Godwin n.p. 'Take this hurt off me' - The Spencer Davis Group ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:27:38 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! On 9/21/06, Dolph Chaney wrote: > > Got to agree. I'm particularly delighted with the last 4 songs, which > have > him out further on a furry limb than I think he's been since the > Egyptians. I'd seen the new, rough songs on OBLITERATION PIE as a hint > that some rock-a-wooliness might be to come, and here it is. Yeah. One senses that "Authority Box" is to be the new "Freeze"-style set closing barn-burner, but it's got a bit of "Strings" in it, too. The lyrics overall are very nice. It sounds like they were written by a person who is 50% Robyn in his prime, 50% Dylan between Bringing It All Back Home and Blood On the Tracks. Yeah, it's good. The surprising, funny lines bring a big smile the first time around that doesn't diminish with repeated listens (and I'm giving it quite a few). Robyn quite aside, this is my favorite R.E.M. record in years. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:34:22 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Ghastly On 9/21/06, Bachman, Michael wrote: > > The Rev Chris stated: > >ew, there's mellow saxophones on track 3 > > >Actually, I like OT even better than Spooked (and, before you feg- > >bastards start a-squabblin', I liked Spooked) > > I wonder how high OT will ascend to as far as RH favorites among us fegs? > Is it his best since Moss Elixir/Mossy Liquor 10 years ago? Yes, although Spooked is a close second. This could all change, but I deem it better than all but the obvious (to me, anyway) two best Egyptians records, and quite possibly the equal of the Moss Duology (and less confusing in its being-one-album-ness). Nothing wrong with failure, everybody does it. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:41:51 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! On 9/21/06, Tom Clark wrote: > > I've > always had a love/hate relationship with "Briggs", in that the idea > sounded better than the implementation, but this recording of it is > aces. It seems like a whole new song to me. It's that one and Belltown Ramble where the Dylan thing comes into focus (with the literal lyrical tribute in Briggs) and works like a charm. I keep almost hating the piano thing in Belltown, and then turning out to be fine with it. Funny, I like the bass on that one more than most of the rest, and it's the only one with Buck on bass. > Conversely, I think "Underground Sun" sounds better live. Engergetically, yeah, the bonus disc proves that, but the vocals are great on the studio one. Current fave on the rekkid is "'Cause it's Love". Would never have identified *that* one as the one Andy Partridge helped on. I love the solo... I think it's kind of cool how the whole record is guitarry, but it doesn't really go pyrotechnic until that one. Sorry to keep fawning... I'm having an otherwise fairly miserable day, but I'm really digging this. - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:18:54 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: Happy Boy! >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:36:19 -0400 >From: "Brian Nupp" >Subject: Happy Boy! > >That's what I am. > >Ever have a day that makes you feel like a kid at Christmas time >again? Oh joy! > >Still, no new Robyn album yet. Maybe it'll be in today's mail. Funnily enough, I had one of those days too - so much so that I actually thought during it "I can't remember a day as good as this for a looong time". Mind you, mine was Thursday... must be the time difference or something. Still didn't make up for the fact that Robyn will actually be performing one show in New Zealand and I won't be able to get to it. Aaugh! James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:32:21 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: And here it is again! http://chardman.blogspot.com/ - -SER ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:56:26 -0400 From: Christopher Hintz Subject: Wait, now... Does he sing "Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus"? Rev C ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:18:56 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: reap >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:42:37 -0400 >From: FSThomas >Subject: reap > >Neutral (or remotely friendly) tourism to Thailand. > >Previously unannounced congrats to the (vastly unreportedly via mass >media) Muslim general in the most recent coup in Thailand. Example >number (some really high number) of peace-loving religion of Islam at work. > >Bonus points for striking while your middle of the road PM is away in >the States addressing the United Nations! Way to go! actually, the reports coming out suggest that this is an improvement to the situation in Thailand. The Thaksin government was hardly a model of democracy and was only in power due to an election which had been ruled illegal by the Thai Constitutional Court. It's also of note that the removal of Thaksin will probably mollify any fears of a Muslim rebellion in Thailand, since much of the disaffection with his rule was due to his mishandling of the religious conflicts in the south of the country. General Sonthi Boonyaratglin may be muslim, but he is also - importantly - fundamentally a supporter of Thailand's monarchy, which seems also to tacitly support the coup. With regards to the tourism, it seems to be continuing largely unchanged irrespective of the coup. and I doubt the military control of the country will last more than a few months - its leadership is already stressing that it wishes to return the country to civilian rule as soon as possible. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:24:54 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Happy Boy! >> Ever have a day that makes you feel like a kid at Christmas time >> again? Oh joy! I am faintly joyous, because last night I found a secondhand copy of the Bats' "Compiletely Bats" selling online. For a whopping $4.97 + shipping. I've been looking for this CD for roughly 15 years. ;) I enjoyed the first half of PBS' profile of Andy Warhol last night...I suggest you watch the second half tonight. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:06:30 -0400 From: "Brian Nupp" Subject: Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! >btw, anybody have recording years for the tracks on Invisible Hits? > >I can wait to get home to check the sleeve, but if someone's got them > >handy... Same with Invisible Hitchcock. > >Or maybe it was down in San Jose, I can't recall... >-tc No, but Messages Of Dark and Mr. Deadly were recorded in April 1983 and mixed in 1986 both at the Plastic on 4 track. - -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:47:28 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: reap On 9/20/06, FSThomas wrote: > > > Previously unannounced congrats to the (vastly unreportedly via mass > media) Muslim general in the most recent coup in Thailand. Example > number (some really high number) of peace-loving religion of Islam at > work. Because the history of all other organized religions is an unblemished fluffy blanket of bloodless love and goodness. C'mon: that was a completely gratuitous slam at a religion. And I'm no fan of any organized religion...but nearly every nominally religious conflict tends to have social and geopolitical issues underlying it, for which religion tends to be mere window-dressing. Now play nice, and crawl back under that bridge you crept out from... ;-) On utterly non-political-trolling related subjects: First listen to OT...and I'm pretty impressed! I do like Robyn's acoustic stuff...but I like his band stuff better. - -- ...Jeff Norman, babbling leftist slogans in a wild-eyed frenzy in his yurt made of organic hemp somewhere in the people's republic of, uh, Milwaukee. And also, I am creepily caressing one of those round, black, cartoon-looking bombs - because I am a wild scary leftist who cheers anything and everything George W. Bush dislikes! The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:52:43 -0500 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: VGPS On Sep 21, 2006, at 2:41 PM, FSThomas wrote: > Found a nice (Windows-only, probably) video of the Kinks playing > Village > Green Preservation Society from 1973. > > http://www.transbuddha.com/mediaHolder.php?id=2259 > > I'd like to see the whole set. Apparently it's from a BBC Kinks In > Concert special. > > -f. Nope, I saved it as a .mov via Firefox. - - Steve __________ No matter where you go, there you are. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:54:31 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: RE: reap >James wrote: >> actually, the reports coming out suggest that this is an improvement >> to the situation in Thailand. The Thaksin government was hardly a >> model of democracy and was only in power due to an election which had >> been ruled illegal by the Thai Constitutional Court. It's also of >> note that the removal of Thaksin will probably mollify any fears of a >> Muslim rebellion in Thailand, since much of the disaffection with his >> rule was due to his mishandling of the religious conflicts in the >> south of the country. General Sonthi Boonyaratglin may be muslim, but >> he is also - importantly - fundamentally a supporter of Thailand's >> monarchy, which seems also to tacitly support the coup. > >The impression I got was that the monarchy explicitly endorsed the coup. At >least, this was what CNN reported yesterday. Have you guys heard more >updated info down south? not a lot more, but we do get news from a pretty wide range of sources - including Aussie media, which understandably keeps quite a close eye on Southeast Asia in general. I'm also going to some extent on the BBC online coverage. james - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:31:53 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: reap grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > It's also of note that the > removal of Thaksin will probably mollify any fears of a Muslim rebellion > in Thailand, since much of the disaffection with his rule was due to his > mishandling of the religious conflicts in the south of the country. So instead of quelling/suppressing/negotiating an end to a rebellion in the making it's better to just thrust the rebels into power with the police power of the police/military? That doesn't quite make sense; furthermore so with the bad rap fundamentalist Islam is (should be) getting these days. And if the Monarchy tacitly supported the coup it was probably only towards self-preservation. Greenlight their activities and your head is that much more likely to stay connected to your neck. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:37:48 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Fuck me, baby, I'm a trolley bus! It's in the house, but unlistened to yet ... Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:48:26 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: reap 2fs wrote: > Because the history of all other organized religions is an unblemished > fluffy blanket of bloodless love and goodness. True, though with the exception of Northern Ireland name a bloody Christian/Catholic situation (within reason) in the past fifty years, please. Branch Davidians don't count. > C'mon: that was a completely gratuitous slam at a religion. And I'm no fan > of any organized religion...but nearly every nominally religious conflict > tends to have social and geopolitical issues underlying it, for which > religion tends to be mere window-dressing. Gratuitous slam at a Religion? Muslims offer cheap shots at themselves on a daily basis! Example: The Pope's quoted comments on Islam. "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." What did that garner? Not only outcry for an apology (fair enough), but a nun getting shot four times in the back, the firebombing of churches in the Middle East, and a condemnation of the Council for American Islamic Relations. Note please no complaints by CAIR on the Muslim response; no call for peace and calm in light of the comments. It's the same response they gave for 911: none. No apology, no outright call of contempt for the actions. It equates to acquiescence to the acts and tacit approval. There's a decent piece on the Pope's speech, its true meaning, and the uproar around it here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/featherstone/featherstone62.html > Now play nice, and crawl back under that bridge you crept out from... ;-) Aw, shucks! He likes me! - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:41:54 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Ghastly Christopher Hintz wrote: > > haven't popped in the bonus CD yet There's a bonus CD?! I guess Yep Roc were too cheap-ass to mail it to Canada, 'cos I ordered mine good and early. I'm annoyed now. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:09:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: reap FSThomas wrote: > So instead of quelling/suppressing/negotiating an > end to a rebellion in the making it's better to > just thrust the rebels into power with the > police power of the police/military? This general has been leading the fight against the rebels, so not even close Foxnewswatcher. . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:22:21 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: reap On 9/21/06, FSThomas wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > Because the history of all other organized religions is an unblemished > > fluffy blanket of bloodless love and goodness. > > True, though with the exception of Northern Ireland name a bloody > Christian/Catholic situation (within reason) in the past fifty years, > please. Branch Davidians don't count. And why not? And what about "pro-life" doctor killers? Or molesting priests (yes that's not the same as murder)? But regardless: you can't just assume situations are otherwise equivalent, and so where religions encourage or wink at violence, they'd do the same elsewhere. Christianity's history is drenched in blood, even if *relatively* little of it is recent. > C'mon: that was a completely gratuitous slam at a religion. And I'm no fan > > of any organized religion...but nearly every nominally religious > conflict > > tends to have social and geopolitical issues underlying it, for which > > religion tends to be mere window-dressing. > > Gratuitous slam at a Religion? Muslims offer cheap shots at themselves > on a daily basis! Example: The Pope's quoted comments on Islam. > > "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will > find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the > sword the faith he preached." > > What did that garner? Not only outcry for an apology (fair enough), but > a nun getting shot four times in the back, the firebombing of churches > in the Middle East, and a condemnation of the Council for American > Islamic Relations. > > Note please no complaints by CAIR on the Muslim response; no call for > peace and calm in light of the comments. It's the same response they > gave for 911: none. No apology, no outright call of contempt for the > actions. It equates to acquiescence to the acts and tacit approval. So because an organized religion and its defenders didn't apologize enough for your taste, that justifies slamming any and all adherents of that religion? Where I come from, that's called "prejudice." I might well agree that (generally speaking) the leaders of various organized religions are quite capable of being bastards...but that doesn't mean anyone who believes in the religion is a bastard. To compare: elsewhere, you wrote: <> - --which I assume is a sarcastic extension of my annoyance at the "gave away the bride" phrase from that Fonda/Elfman thing. Just because it's historically true that marriage has been, variously, an instrument of cementing political alliances and/or a means of transferring power and property from father (-in-law) to son (-in-law), that doesn't mean people cannot use it for their own purposes. Did I feel any compulsion to have a priest or other religious figure at my wedding? No. Does that mean that I think people who do are to be disdained? No - that's their choice...and as long as they're not getting in other people's faces about it, none of my business. For that matter: did I believe when I was younger that there was no real need to get married, that it was in some senses an obsolete if not oppressive institution? To an extent, yes. So when I eventually (after nine years together) did get married, was it because I'd utterly discarded all that cynicism? Not quite...but I had recognized a lot of it as self-righteousness. Fact is (as with any social institution) marriage involves many more people than the two actually getting married (most obviously: parents, family, and the state and various institutions such as insurers who extend benefits to spouses), and for myself, I recognized that if the question had been, why bother to get married when it doesn't matter to the state of our feelings for one another, it was just as easy to flip that around and say, why *not* get married since it doesn't matter to the state of our feelings? Ceremony and ritual do have a place, even if a person doesn't wholly buy them for him/herself. (Which explains funerals, which are useful even if you believe there's nothing after death: they're not for the corpse, of course.) Back to the "gave away the bride" thing: I don't think Benjamin is correct when he thought it might just refer to the sort of ceremonial walk-down-the-aisle bit...but even if he is, the journalist's choice of language is decidedly retrograde (and why highlight that aspect of the ceremony?), and the underlying notion that marriage is primarily a transfer of property (in the form of the bride) from father to groom is definitely one part of the tradition that (speaking for myself) I reject utterly. That doesn't compel me to reject the institution in toto - just as I have no particular problem with friends who consider themselves Catholic, even though they reject many of that church's teaching (the ones I'm thinking of are lefties - so you can figure out which ones). And please (though I don't think they'd come from you, Ferris): no comments about "cafeteria" religions...since the number of people who actually and consistently follow every last tenet of their religion is vanishingly small (and includes a low number of priests and ministers, for that matter). But really: I think the thing that bugged me most about those last couple of trolling posts is that usually, your disagreements with me are civil. These seemed not only more mean-spirited, but they forcibly put ideas in my head, words in my mouth, which (had I been around last weekend to address them) I would not have had or uttered. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #219 ********************************