From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #129 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, June 8 2006 Volume 15 : Number 129 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [My Name Is Eb] I know you were all listening to NPR today [Steve Schiavo] [My Name Is Eb] Re: In honor of today... [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] [My Name Is Eb] Re: Washington, D.C. [Capuchin ] [My Name Is Eb] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again [Capuchi] [My Name Is Eb] RE: fegmaniax-digest V15 #128 ["Brian Hoare" ] Re: [My Name Is Eb] Re: In honor of today... ["Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: [My Name Is Eb] I know you were all listening to NPR today I got one of the heavy metal kids at work to bring up the new Tool yesterday. I guess I need something with a little more pep to get my attention. And they don't have any songs that mention 60 ton angels. So I still recommend Porcupine Tree for anyone who needs a little melody with their riffage. Video down the page. - - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 19:55:15 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: [My Name Is Eb] Re: In honor of today... >On 6/6/06, Eb wrote: >> >> > I had a Harold Budd album that listened to for years at the wrong >> > RPM. It >> > happens. :) >> >> Somewhere I have a Sub Pop single by Wire's Bruce Gilbert...I recall >> it being equally good (bad?) at 45 or 33. Don't ask me which speed is > > correct, because I don't even remember. > >Similarly I digitized a bunch of vinyl that a friend leant me and there was >one Crash Worship 7" for which I never did figure out the right speed. I >just digitized it both ways. Art of Noise's "Camilla, the old old story" works at either, too (even though there are sampled vocals in the middle!) and the student radio station I have a show on has an old vinyl LP or 12" single (your guess) by David Sylvian which a staff member of the station has scrawled "Can be played at 33 or 45 equally well" on the cover of. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 03:11:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: [My Name Is Eb] Re: Washington, D.C. On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, Eb wrote: >>>> Michael "I need a Geddy Lee bobblehead" Wells >>> I think a Geddy PEZ dispenser would be more physiologically appropriate. >> Whereas a Paris Hilton bobblehead would be apt in so many ways. > > What's the official term for those bouncing glass birds with the red > liquid in a bulb at one end? I call them "Drinking Birds" and Brian Dewan seems to agree. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 03:32:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: [My Name Is Eb] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, FSThomas wrote: > Really? I'm actually quite fond of the idea that if you're in the > country illegally then you should be bereft of Constitutional > protections. That's kind of fucked up, to my thinking. Of course, I think the idea of this nation, of all nations, having such a thing as "illegal aliens" is fucked up. There's nothing more disturbing than some old white dude saying that we can't have people just coming into this country all poor and hungry looking for work and a better life. What's written on that tablet in the arm of the statue of Liberty? [Oh, and what's that statue called again? That's right, "Liberty Enlightening The World".] Yeah, close the door on your way in, fellas. You're special because you got here sooner. Bullshit. > Can y'all hold judgment on that until after the investigations are > complete? > > According to James Crossen, who was sitting next to (US Marine Lance > Corporal Miguel) Terrazas when the roadside bomb exploded, women and > children in the area often helped insurgents. It's likely, according to > Crossen, that women and children had given information about US patrols > to insurgents. This information, according to Crossen, led to the > roadside bomb attack. [1] In addition, Terrazas' father said other > marines told him they were fighting with insurgents who used civilians > as human shields.[2] > > > (Taken from the Wikipedia entry on Haditha) Well, I'm taking my view of the matter from the mouth of Lance Corporal James Crossan who was pinned under a truck while his fellow soldiers "were just blinded by hate.... they just lost control". He said this on BBC World News last week. Crossan himself admits that his people lost control and were blinded by hate. That's what we call a "crime of passion", but it's still a crime. And now it's a war crime. > Define "frequently." Well, "frequently" probably means just about daily. Look at the killings in Ishaqi where US soldiers broke through a house where they heard an Al-Qaeda supporter might be visiting and gunned down everyone inside including three children. The official US line was that a firefight broke out and the house collapsed, killing the people inside. BBC News showed footage taken at the house by locals showing one wall collapsed and people collecting the bodies which were riddled with bullet holes. There's also the case of the very pregnant woman and her mother who were gunned down in a car when the woman went into labor and they were racing to the hospital when their driver got into the wrong lane at a checkpoint. These cases made it to me and I wasn't even looking and I'm on the other side of the planet. I mentioned them to someone who DOES pay attention to such things and am assured that they are the tip of the iceberg. > Far, far more civilians are being killed by foreign insurgents (read: > non-Iraqi) than by US/Coalition forces. Everyone making this claim is missing the point by a long shot. Those people wouldn't have been killed if the US hadn't invaded Iraq in the first place. End of story. They are deaths caused by the invasion and so their blood is on the hands of the USA. This applies to people who died because their infrastructure was destroyed and they couldn't get to healthcare or clean water and it's going to apply to the generations who suffer due to the loss of parents and children today. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 10:45:03 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: [My Name Is Eb] RE: fegmaniax-digest V15 #128 >From: hssmrg@bath.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Electric Castle; and a couple of dates > >Brian, I really liked "The Castle Hall" from Into the Electric Castle. >Didn't care for the other CD though - bit too something or other. > I'm glad, and a little suprised, that you found something to like. I'd go for Amazing Flight myself. "bit too something or other" is probably the correct response for both albums, that's why it's filed under "guilty pleasures". >Just saw the Billy Preston obit in the paper. Only 60 - still that >means I have 2 years to go... Worse than that, Mike. I was informed yesterday by my daughter that 58 is the age that one is too old to rock, and that all guitar related possessions are then forfeit to one's offspring. >If you are in or around BANES in August, I am plotting a formal gig on >17th August and a jam session on 13th August. Please e-mail me off-list >if you want to take part - Dolph, Michael Wells, Brian Hoare, I'm >talking to you! I'll have to check the holiday plans. The strat's being getting a bit of play lately so by august I may be up for a bit of a jam. Right now I'm at a stage that I can realise how much electric guitar-lore I have forgotten. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 07:44:15 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: [My Name Is Eb] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again Capuchin wrote: > That's kind of fucked up, to my thinking. Of course, I think the idea > of this nation, of all nations, having such a thing as "illegal aliens" > is fucked up. > > There's nothing more disturbing than some old white dude saying that we > can't have people just coming into this country all poor and hungry > looking for work and a better life. What's written on that tablet in > the arm of the statue of Liberty? There are laws regarding immigration to the US. Those crossing the borders to the north & south without following procedures are breaking the law. When I married my first wife we did everything legitimately, dealt with the INS, and played the waiting game. We (and a lot of other people) put up with the bullshit, waited in the lines, payed the fees, filled out the forms, waited somewhere in the neighborhood of nine months for a visa application, and followed the laws. Meanwhile you've got another group who just hop the Rio Grande. How in any way is that fair? Or equal enforcement of the law? If Bush has his way then these "undocumented workers" (hate the term) get rewarded with amnesty, among other perks. I haven't a problem with immigration. I do, however, have a problem with rewarding lawbreakers. > Everyone making this claim is missing the point by a long shot. Those > people wouldn't have been killed if the US hadn't invaded Iraq in the > first place. End of story. > > They are deaths caused by the invasion and so their blood is on the > hands of the USA. This applies to people who died because their > infrastructure was destroyed and they couldn't get to healthcare or > clean water and it's going to apply to the generations who suffer due to > the loss of parents and children today. And Hussein was a prince among men. You're right; absolutely right. We never should have to Iraq in '91, much less now. What were we thinking? God knows the Kurds must miss the living shit out of him. I wonder, too, if we can scrape up some of the old Taliban guys to take back over in Afghanistan, too ... - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 07:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: [My Name Is "Eb" And] Re: [My Name Is Eb] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, FSThomas wrote: > There are laws regarding immigration to the US. Those crossing the > borders to the north & south without following procedures are breaking > the law. Get over it. Laws are not divine; they are the work of men and man was made, as they say, but of clay. What is right and what is wrong does not come from the law. > When I married my first wife we did everything legitimately, dealt with > the INS, and played the waiting game. We (and a lot of other people) put > up with the bullshit, waited in the lines, payed the fees, filled out > the forms, waited somewhere in the neighborhood of nine months for a > visa application, and followed the laws. Sound like a load of bullshit. Hopefully you're doing what you can to make sure other people don't have to go through all that trouble for something so simple as choosing a new place to live. > Meanwhile you've got another group who just hop the Rio Grande. How in > any way is that fair? There's no such thing as "fair" (nor "deserve" nor "earn", for that matter). Some people work hard and get nothing and others work not at all and have everything they could desire. It's not a matter of being fair or unfair, it's just how the cookie crumbles. In the end, we should do what we can to make sure that everyone has as easy a time doing what they would like to do as possible. If something is hard for one person, we shouldn't go around making it just as hard for everyone out of some misguided sense of "fairness". Imagine saying that this kid was born without feet so everyone should have to use crutches all the time -- otherwise, how in any way is that fair? No. That's insane. Instead, it's the other way around: most people are born WITH feet, so we should do what we can to make sure this kid without them can get around as easily as everyone else. You had to do some miserable shit to help your wife stay in this country, whereas I had to do fuckall to be in the same situation. Hence, we should be working to make it easier for people who would like to be here to be here. > Or equal enforcement of the law? [I'm going to ignore the fact that this doesn't even remotely apply to your circumstance except to note that it doesn't. There is such a thing as the INS and it does attempt to apply the law equally to all people who have less than US$30M in assetts. Your choice to enter into the bureaucracy of immigration was just that: voluntary subjugation to the law. If you had attempted to avoid immigration and been sought for enforcement while others were not sought, that might be unequal enforcement. That didn't happen.] Equal enforcement of the law is kind of like the opposite of your loopy idea of "fair". Unequal enforcement is a bad thing when enforcement is used as an excuse for punishing those that you have some ulterior motive for punishing or when you fail to enforce so that some privileged caste can use the crime to retain or reenforce their privilege. Now, one might argue that the INS working so hard against Mexicans while ignoring (for the most part) Canadians is unequal enforcement used to further oppress the impoverished brown people. However, one could make a very strong case that the inequity in enforcement on the two borders is simply an economic choice -- a choice to apply the limited resources to the area where the most illegal immigration is taking place. (After all, Canada is not a Third World nation and people aren't desperately trying to flee the high standard of living to take the kinds of jobs a person can get without proof of legal employability.) The really fucked-up part, of course, is that the CRIME here is not subjucting yourself to a shitload of paperwork and waiting for some committee's assessment of whether or not you are allowed to move freely about the planet that gave birth to you. The CRIME is failing to jump through hoops. I see no good reason for such a thing to be a crime -- especially not in a nation that truly values democracy. Therefore, I see illegal immigrants as people who are taking action against law that is not right. When the law is not on the side of right, we are obligated to civil disobedience. Henry David Thoreau, Rosa Parks, the students in Tiananmen Square, and the families swimming the Rio Grande. > If Bush has his way then these "undocumented workers" (hate the term) > get rewarded with amnesty, among other perks. I haven't a problem with > immigration. I do, however, have a problem with rewarding lawbreakers. So you'd be all for changing the law, right? That way there are no lawbreakers. Oh, and by the way, if the President grants you amnesty, you're no longer a lawbreaker. So whom do you mean? > And Hussein was a prince among men. You're right; absolutely right. We > never should have to Iraq in '91, much less now. What were we thinking? We were thinking that we needed a permanent military presence in the region to ensure global domination of markets. Duh. How many people did Hussein kill in 1990? 2000? How many have died as a result of the invasion this year alone? Has the standard of living gone up or down? Is the average person on the street happier, safer, or more enlightened today than they were in, say, 1990? It's a no-brainer. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:35:27 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [My Name Is Eb] RE: fegmaniax-digest V15 #128 On 6/8/06, Brian Hoare wrote: > > > >Just saw the Billy Preston obit in the paper. Only 60 - still that > >means I have 2 years to go... > > Worse than that, Mike. I was informed yesterday by my daughter that 58 is > the age that one is too old to rock, and that all guitar related > possessions > are then forfeit to one's offspring. Play her the most recent recordings by Wire - that oughta convince her! - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:48:12 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: [My Name Is "Eb" And] Re: [My Name Is Eb] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On 6/8/06, Capuchin wrote: > > On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, FSThomas wrote: > > There are laws regarding immigration to the US. Those crossing the > > borders to the north & south without following procedures are breaking > > the law. > > Get over it. Laws are not divine; they are the work of men and man was > made, as they say, but of clay. What is right and what is wrong does not > come from the law. Not to mention that many Mexican immigrants can argue that hey, they were here first: the border just happened to move at historical points during their families' residency. > > Meanwhile you've got another group who just hop the Rio Grande. How in > > any way is that fair? > > There's no such thing as "fair" (nor "deserve" nor "earn", for that > matter). Not to mention that it's hardly just "hopping" the Rio Grande: much sacrifice and hard work and pain and risk are involved. Maybe we should be asking, given all that (a) why is their situation in Mexico so bad that they upheave themselves with all that trouble, and (b) what is it they're seeing here that drives them forward? > And Hussein was a prince among men. You're right; absolutely right. We > > never should have to Iraq in '91, much less now. What were we thinking? > > We were thinking that we needed a permanent military presence in the > region to ensure global domination of markets. > > Duh. > > How many people did Hussein kill in 1990? 2000? How many have died as a > result of the invasion this year alone? Has the standard of living gone > up or down? Is the average person on the street happier, safer, or more > enlightened today than they were in, say, 1990? > > It's a no-brainer. Responding to Ferris' point: I'm not sure why it is such a common response to imagine that if you're opposed to the war, you must love Saddam. Everything isn't black and white; sometimes we choose the less fucked-up of two fucked-up situations. Digging deeper, though: why was Saddam in power? What's the history of Iraq that led to that? We always want to act as if the world was created yesterday, and we have no responsibility for (and no need to take account of) anything that happened more than two days ago. It just isn't so - if only because other people have longer memories. I keep thinking we're like a dysfunctional spouse. "C'mon honey, we can make it work!" "After you punched me, and threw me through a window? I don't think so!" "Yeah, but that was last week! You can trust me now!" - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 11:26:14 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: [My Name Is "Eb" And] Re: [My Name Is Eb] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again Capuchin wrote: > Get over it. Laws are not divine; they are the work of men and man was > made, as they say, but of clay. What is right and what is wrong does > not come from the law. We've got laws against pedophilia, too. If you fervently believed in relations with pre-teens and were so convinced it was right, in your eyes you're not breaking the law, either. > Sound like a load of bullshit. Hopefully you're doing what you can to > make sure other people don't have to go through all that trouble for > something so simple as choosing a new place to live. Or, conversely, are you? Right now we have immigration laws & policies. If you don't like them, why not strive for change. In the meantime, though, don't break the law, encourage others to, or support those who did. If these folks are so willing to knowingly break the law to enter the country, what makes you think they're going to obey any other laws while they're here? Prime example of a fine, upstanding undocumented worker: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9325968/detail.html > Some people work hard and get nothing ... it's just how the cookie crumbles. And, hey, if I break a few laws to improve my life, who's to blame me? A little insider trading here, a little, say, armed robbery there. No one's going to arrest me for *that*. After all, I'm only doing it to better the conditions for my wife and family, right? It's the same goddamned thing as hopping a fence. Sorry. > Imagine saying that this kid was born without feet so everyone should > have to use crutches all the time -- otherwise, how in any way is that > fair? > > No. That's insane. Instead, it's the other way around: most people are > born WITH feet, so we should do what we can to make sure this kid > without them can get around as easily as everyone else. That's a great analogy. I would say, though, that when you cross the line of making it easy for the footless kid at the expense of everyone else, you have a problem. I think that's what were on the verge of with the immigration issue. We definitely don't have to agree on this (or much else, for that matter). > Hence, we should be working to make it easier for people who would like > to be here to be here. But not at the expense of those who are already in the system, dealing with the process. If you grant amnesty to those already here, what message are you sending? "Hey, are system is *fucked*, so we're just going to let all these folks in." Or, more accurately, "Thanks for dealing with all this--we really appreciate it--but quite frankly you're all suckers and we're going to let all these other folks in first." > I'm going to ignore the fact that this doesn't even remotely apply to > your circumstance except to note that it doesn't. > Your choice to enter into the > bureaucracy of immigration was just that: voluntary subjugation to the > law. And my choice not to drive down the sidewalk in midtown at lunch hour is voluntary subjugation to the law, too, it appears. If everyone obeyed laws as they saw fit - when it was convenient for them - what the fuck type of society would we be living in? [I seem to remember your being something of an anarchist, which then begs the question of why I bother with any of this.] >> If Bush has his way then these "undocumented workers" (hate the term) >> get rewarded with amnesty, among other perks. I haven't a problem >> with immigration. I do, however, have a problem with rewarding >> lawbreakers. > > So you'd be all for changing the law, right? That way there are no > lawbreakers. No, not at all. I would like to see some enforcement. I don't want to see a citizenship rubberstamp for anyone who just happens to be here. (Note, too, if they *do* go that route, it will only be for our Latino brothers and sisters, not for Asians, Europeans, etc. It would be the same deal as it was the last time Reagan did it.) > How many people did Hussein kill in 1990? 2000? How many have died as > a result of the invasion this year alone? I don't have the numbers, but I would submit that the vast majority have been at the hands of insurgents, not US troops. "But if we weren't there in the first place ..." sure. If the citizens of the country, or the imams of the mosques didn't harbor, aid, and abet the terrorists, they wouldn't be dying, either. > Has the standard of living > gone up or down? Is the average person on the street happier, safer, or > more enlightened today than they were in, say, 1990? More people across the country have running water and electricity than at any time under Hussein's reign. Schools, hospitals are being built and funded. I don't know. Probably not. - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 10:50:57 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I'm driving in Atlanta again Now, Ferris, you know good and well that driving in any part of Atlanta equates to anarchy anyway. At 10:26 AM 6/8/2006, FSThomas wrote: >Capuchin wrote: > > Your choice to enter into the > > bureaucracy of immigration was just that: voluntary subjugation to the > > law. > >And my choice not to drive down the sidewalk in midtown at lunch hour is >voluntary subjugation to the law, too, it appears. If everyone obeyed >laws as they saw fit - when it was convenient for them - what the fuck >type of society would we be living in? [I seem to remember your being >something of an anarchist, which then begs the question of why I bother >with any of this.] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 11:58:22 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I'm driving in Atlanta again Dolph Chaney wrote: > Now, Ferris, you know good and well that driving in any part of Atlanta > equates to anarchy anyway. Hey! We got voted one of the "politest" cities to drive in! http://tinyurl.com/jw6cp : "On the other side of the spectrum, Minneapolis, Nashville, St. Louis, Seattle and Atlanta rated as the cities with the most courteous drivers who were less likely to change lanes without signaling or swear at other motorists." [I *defy* the author of that article to take The Connector southbound past the I20 interchange and point out people signaling for lane changes.] - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2006 11:00:20 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I'm driving in Atlanta again Oh hell -- people only don't swear at other motorists because they're busy eating, putting on makeup, changing the radio, AND rubbernecking simultaneously. At 10:58 AM 6/8/2006, FSThomas wrote: >Dolph Chaney wrote: > > Now, Ferris, you know good and well that driving in any part of Atlanta > > equates to anarchy anyway. > >Hey! We got voted one of the "politest" cities to drive in! > >http://tinyurl.com/jw6cp : > >"On the other side of the spectrum, Minneapolis, Nashville, St. Louis, >Seattle and Atlanta rated as the cities with the most courteous drivers >who were less likely to change lanes without signaling or swear at other >motorists." > >[I *defy* the author of that article to take The Connector southbound >past the I20 interchange and point out people signaling for lane changes.] > > >-- >FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com >404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:30:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: [My Name Is "Eb" And] Re: [My Name Is Eb] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, Capuchin wrote: > In the end, we should do what we can to make sure that everyone has as > easy a time doing what they would like to do as possible. If something is > hard for one person, we shouldn't go around making it just as hard for > everyone out of some misguided sense of "fairness". That sounds almost libertarian of you! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 12:35:17 -0400 From: Steve Talkowski Subject: Re: Washington, D.C. On Jun 7, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Eb wrote: >>>> Michael "I need a Geddy Lee bobblehead" Wells >>> >>> I think a Geddy PEZ dispenser would be more physiologically >>> appropriate. >> >> Whereas a Paris Hilton bobblehead would be apt in so many ways. > > What's the official term for those bouncing glass birds with the > red liquid in a bulb at one end? Uhm, drinking bird? Wow, there's a whole wiki here, with links!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_bird I remember my Dad getting one of these for us when I was a kid and always was fascinated by the "magic" that made it work. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 10:03:05 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: [My Name Is Eb] Re: In honor of today... On 6/8/06, grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > > > Art of Noise's "Camilla, the old old story" works at either, too > (even though there are sampled vocals in the middle!) and the student > radio station I have a show on has an old vinyl LP or 12" single > (your guess) by David Sylvian which a staff member of the station has > scrawled "Can be played at 33 or 45 equally well" on the cover of. Same thing with Acen's "Close Your Eyes". At the "proper" speed the vocal sample is intentionally Chipmunk-ish, but slow it down and you get normal-sounding vocals with syrup trip-hop speed vocals. There was a sort of turntablist/sound-ops guy briefly in my band; he'd bought an L7 picture-disc because he liked how the spindle poked through the girl's crotch when you put it on the player. But he always played it at the wrong speed because he didn't realized the singer the was female. Vinyl beats digital media for ersatz format-abuse fun any day. A lock groove? Hilarious. A final track that 40 minutes long, consiting of a 3 minute song, 37 minutes of silence and then a belch? Annoying. - -Rx ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #129 ********************************