From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #125 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, June 5 2006 Volume 15 : Number 125 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: oops, hi Mike, the Pretenders, and the great flood ["Spotted Eagle Ra] Re: ahhhh, the 80's ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: Permanent Underwater Waves ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: Washington, D.C. [FSThomas ] Re: actively disdain chord changes [Eb ] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: Washington, D.C. ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again [Jeff Dwarf ] Something tells me others will be more affected by this than me (reap) [E] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:23:56 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: oops, hi Mike, the Pretenders, and the great flood On 6/3/06, Jill Brand wrote: > > > I thought I had sent this to the Kinks list, but I guess I sent it here > instead. The Kinks list moderator stated that most people on the list had > > heard the Pretenders' version of Stop Your Sobbing before they heard the > Kinks' version, and I begged to differ (the demographics of the Kinks list > is a lot older than the feglist for obvious reasons). But since Mike > Godwin responded to it (hi back, Mike), I guess it reached the wrong > destination. It was still interesting. I heard the Pretenders's version first but knew at the time it was a cover of a Kinks song I'd never heard. I'm still on a major Kinks kick. Just set up the stereo in my new household and we've been blasting "This Is Where I Belong", Kronikles, Face to Face, Village Green... and learning the chords and harmonies to half of 'em. Oh, yeah, as for REM, all I was trying to say was that *I* think (and have > always thought) they are/were boring. It's not a challenge or an insult > or even a debatable topic. I kinda knew that when I responded, but it was a good jumpstart to a separate debate! Same thing with me and all the posts about Tool: I figure it's worth my mentioning that I don't get it and wouldn't mind someone explaining the appeal, but I'm never gonna get it, really. However, I don't mind if other people like > them. They are pleasant and jangly enough. ...because generally I find the best aspects of REM, jangly or not, to be fairly unsettling if infections or upbeat-sounding. What is kind of interesting is that since I also like the Kinks, I can see why the Smiths, or, hell, Belle & Sebastian, would be more interesting to a Kinks fan than REM would. My personal take on it is that Ray Davies did those kinds SO MUCH BETTER than either of those bands that they don't do as much for me. REM seemed to be from a different lineage altogether, especially early on... despite the Byrds influence it was the arty obscurity that was the draw. Mileage does vary! Boy howdy does that Raconteurs single vibrate with Kinksiness, though. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:29:46 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: ahhhh, the 80's On 6/3/06, Eb wrote: > > It's hard to come up with even 20 albums from that year which mean > something substantial to me. And about the only ones which I really > like a *lot* are Discipline, My Life in the Bush of Ghosts, It's worth mentioning that that'd been on the shelf since before "Remain in Light"... at least I'm pretty sure it had... > and the > two dB's albums. Really? Hell, that's two classics in one year by my standards. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:41:05 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Permanent Underwater Waves On 6/4/06, Marc Alberts wrote: > > Michael Wells wrote: > have friends who grew up in LA and had KROK available to them, > and those guys had it lucky-- Yes and no... I am assured that KROQ was cooler before I moved here, but it confused the shit outta me when I heard it. Small town me had had to construct his own musical underground to good effect, so when I moved to So Cal in 1989, I couldn't figure out this hugely popular station that played 30% stuff that nobody listened to back home exceot for me, but the other 70% was Duran Duran and Depeche Mode and pop new wave schlock in which I had no interest, and meanwhile totally ignored the then-current American underground which formed the large balance of my listening diet. It was like 30% of 120 MINUTES and 70% regular boring MTV minus the hair bands. Legend has it that they played American indie music in the early and mid-'80's, but almost none of it survived to grace Richard Blade's odious Flashback Lunches... - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:44:33 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Washington, D.C. On 6/4/06, FSThomas wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > > I'd say any song about "lies" and "liars" would be thematically apt... > > Bok bok bok. Same could be said about the previous administration. Hey, I don't think Jeffrey directed that at any administration... just the city of DC, which remains full of Democrats. I mean, we know he's a lefty, but I don't think that statement is partisan in the least. - -Rx np Neil Young, "Living With War" scrambled up with "Hawks and Doves" and "Old Ways" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:54:03 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On 6/5/06, FSThomas wrote: > > > * It would appear in the case of Clinton, there aren't any consequences, > but he's not alone in skating. I dunno, I feel strongly-- no way to really quantify this-- that his administration was, if not hobbled, certainly compromised in its effectiveness during the whole sordid affair. And the ripples muddied all kinds of water across party lines... remember what happened to Henry Hyde? - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:54:49 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On 6/5/06, FSThomas wrote: > > * It would appear in the case of Clinton, there aren't any consequences, > but he's not alone in skating. I dunno, I feel strongly-- no way to really quantify this-- that his administration was, if not hobbled, certainly compromised in its effectiveness during the whole sordid affair. And the ripples muddied all kinds of water across party lines... remember what happened to Henry Hyde? - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:07:23 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > ... the ripples muddied > all kinds of water across party lines... remember what happened to Henry > Hyde? I would counter with "remember what happened to Vince Foster," but that's me; I'm a bastard. - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 13:08:00 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter Jr." Subject: actively disdain chord changes > From: "Brian Huddell" > Subject: RE: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again > > I find myself seriously wondering if there's this cult of music > fans who actively disdain chord changes, like "if you can't say it > all with meter, then shut the fuck up!" > > So, is there? Yeah, they're called Tool Fans. Heh. But the noise/sludge thing is so big lately (Khanate, Sun0)))), Earth, etc.) that I can imagine a lot of bands leaning toward texture/volume over melody. I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- the only metal band that matters is Confessor. More tempo and chord changes in a single bridge than most bands use in a career. And Bohren & der Club of Gore, in small doses. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGWEWw8Of-Q&search=confessor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2AUKhpZkUs&search=confessor You're in the city that spawned Down, EyeHateGod, Weedeater, Nut, and so on. There should be no shortage of quality metalage there. And I do know there's a huge Confessor cult in Nola. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:28:39 -0700 From: "Patrick Oltraver" Subject: RE: Permanent Underwater Waves Yeah, and don't forget the splash of Reggae that all of these 'alternative' stations threw in for good(?) measure. Confused the hell out of me. > Michael Wells wrote: > have friends who grew up in LA and had KROK available to them, and > those guys had it lucky-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:29:52 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: Washington, D.C. Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > Hey, I don't think Jeffrey directed that at any administration... just the > city of DC, which remains full of Democrats. > > I mean, we know he's a lefty, but I don't think that statement is partisan > in the least. True, true. I read too much into it. On a slight tangent I offer this http://tinyurl.com/pejf5 evidence to liars in DC. Bill O'Reilly is a tool of the first order. I'm not familiar with Keith Olbermann, but lord, he hates Bill. - -f. - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:07:38 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: actively disdain chord changes >> I find myself seriously wondering if there's this cult of music >> fans who actively disdain chord changes, like "if you can't say it >> all with meter, then shut the fuck up!" >> >> So, is there? > > Yeah, they're called Tool Fans. Ha. Good point. Tool may carry the torch for "no-chord songs" even more fiercely than Rob Zombie and Trent Reznor. Pedal point, pedal point...who's got da pedal point? > It's worth mentioning that [My Life in the Bush...] had been on the shelf since before "Remain in > Light"... at least I'm pretty sure it had... Hrm. I'll have to investigate this, and see if this is true. I finally saw "On the Waterfront" last night. Can you believe I'd never seen that? I actually slept OK last night. I may be in a dangerously good- tempered mood today. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 12:26:19 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again <> "specious" doesn't mean "of little consequence", it means "carrying an air of plausibility". and i wasn't referring to the lewinsky debacle, but to the clinton administration's policies (most notably, in this regard, its environmental and foreign policies). essentially, both administrations use(d) orwellian rhetoric to sugar-coat their disastrous policies; but somehow you kinda sorta believed for about ten seconds that clinton was telling the truth. on the other hand, nobody believes a word gee-dub says -- not even for ten seconds. that said, your elegy to the "rule of law" was fairly surprising coming from the source that wanted to turn kabul into "glass" in response to 9/11, and that was of the opinion that the rest of the world could go fuck itself if it didn't want us invading iraq. but maybe you've changed your mind? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:33:39 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Washington, D.C. Ferris wrote: >On a slight tangent I offer this http://tinyurl.com/pejf5 evidence to >liars in DC. Bill O'Reilly is a tool of the first order. I'm not >familiar with Keith Olbermann, but lord, he hates Bill. I have FOX news blocked out so I don't have to listen to their blathering while channel surfing. My mom has an embarrasing "Don't Be a Pinhead" bumper sticker on her car though. I watch Hardball with Chris Matthews. Michael B. NP Gene Clark - No Other ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 15:37:11 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Washington, D.C. Capuchin writes, > OK, so I have two friends taking jobs in the nation's capital (though not > in the capitol) this summer and we're making a nice collection of songs > for them. Just send them Parliament's "Chocolate City!" Ok, Rush. I think the Dark Years began creeping in with "Power Windows," hit a nadir with "Hold Your Fire," and then perked back up for "Counterparts" -- before nose-diving again with the awful "Test for Echo." Then...then came "Vapor Trails," and all was right in the world again. My favorite Rush is the "main sequence" from "Fly By Night" to "Moving Pictures." But I still love "Signals" and "Grace Under Pressure." Though, even bad Rush albums have a few keepers, such as "Force Ten," "Chain Lightning," and "Driven." Oh, and Tool rules. Fuck chord changes! If you can't say it in meter, you got nothing to say. Only chumps need melody -- what good has Paul McCartney or Puccini ever done for the world? - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:50:09 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Washington, D.C. On 6/5/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > Capuchin writes, > > Oh, and Tool rules. Fuck chord changes! If you can't say it in meter, you > got nothing to say. Only chumps need melody -- what good has Paul > McCartney > or Puccini ever done for the world? The lack of chord changes can't be it. I have a shitload of albums that have minimal chord changes, albeit mostly experimental stuff. And "Around the Sun", which may change chords occasionally, but not, as established, key. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 13:45:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again FSThomas wrote: > Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > > ... the ripples muddied > > all kinds of water across party lines... remember > > what happened to Henry Hyde? > > I would counter with "remember what happened to > Vince Foster," but that's me; I'm a bastard. I'm more bothered by what happened to his family: bad enough that Foster killed himself, but then Clinton's enemies decided to sexual abuse and mutiate the corpse for their own gain by manufacturing those bizarre tales of how he "must" have been murdered by the Clintons blah blah blah. It must be hard enough to get over your loved one killing himself; to have that sort of shit being constantly thrown at/ground into your wounds, it's a wonder that one of his family didn't just go apeshit and start killing a Limbaugh -- it probably would have been justifiable homicide. "A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer." -- Mitch Hedberg "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk. And we learned to listen. Speech has allowed the communication of ideas, enabling human beings to work together. To build the impossible. Mankind's greatest achievements have come about by talking. And it's greatest failures by NOT talking. It doesn't have to be like this! Our greatest hopes could become reality in the future. With the technology at our disposal, the possibilities are unbounded. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking. -- Stephen W. Hawking . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:53:01 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Permanent Underwater Waves On 6/4/06, Marc Alberts wrote: > >> Michael Wells wrote: >> have friends who grew up in LA and had KROK available to them, >> and those guys had it lucky-- Rex: >Yes and no... I am assured that KROQ was cooler before I moved here, but it >confused the shit outta me when I heard it. Small town me had had to >construct his own musical underground to good effect, so when I moved to So >Cal in 1989, I couldn't figure out this hugely popular station that played >30% stuff that nobody listened to back home exceot for me, but the other 70% >was Duran Duran and Depeche Mode and pop new wave schlock in which I had no >interest, and meanwhile totally ignored the then-current American >underground which formed the large balance of my listening diet. It was >like 30% of 120 MINUTES and 70% regular boring MTV minus the hair bands. >Legend has it that they played American indie music in the early and >mid-'80's, but almost none of it survived to grace Richard Blade's odious >Flashback Lunches... Rex, so you listened to KCRW back then? I have been listening to the Go-Betweens live on SNAP with Deirdre O'Donoghue CD made from live broadcasts by KCRW back in 1987 and 1988. This was a freebee disc that was included with the initial Bellavista Terrace CD's back in 1999. Detroit had a cool KCRW like NPR station, WDET, but they have gone to way too much news since last Fall and they lost a lot of their day time listening audience. They fired all the morning and afternoon DJ's and won't get anymore donations from me. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:43:15 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Permanent Underwater Waves On 6/5/06, Bachman, Michael > >Legend has it that they played American indie music in the early and > >mid-'80's, but almost none of it survived to grace Richard Blade's odious > >Flashback Lunches... > > Rex, so you listened to KCRW back then? Nope... basically inhaled second-hand KROQ and assumed that, since all the radio I heard was as bad as what I grew up with, all radio was bad (music-wise anyhow). Didn't really delve into NPR until years later. What the hell was the name of that short-lived, pseudo-techno-but-actually-cooler-than-that station that Swedish Eagle started in the early '90's? MARS-FM? Any help here, Eb? > I have been listening to the Go-Betweens > live on SNAP with Deirdre O'Donoghue CD made from live broadcasts by KCRW > back in 1987 > and 1988. This was a freebee disc that was included with the initial > Bellavista Terrace > CD's back in 1999. Hey, I have that, but oddly I don't have BVT! I remember that when it came out I thought it was redundant to my collection of the LP's plus the 79-90 comp, but I discovered that you could buy that disc on its own through the Beggars Banquet website, and I did. Any other former or current KCRW listeners following the bizarre news about Chris Douridas? - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 17:43:31 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again (Or the worst thread hijacking EVER) Stacked Crooked wrote: > that said, your elegy to the "rule of law" was fairly surprising coming > from the source that wanted to turn kabul into "glass" in response to 9/11, > and that was of the opinion that the rest of the world could go fuck itself > if it didn't want us invading iraq. but maybe you've changed your mind? Oh, I still think that the rest of the world can go fuck itself; that hasn't changed. Afghanistan was a miserable place long before we got there, and it will continue being a miserable place long after we've gone. Removal of the Taliban was the right thing to do, either way on Human Rights grounds, not to mention willing co-operation with and harboring of known terrorists. It is, however, an awkward situation when the country you invade has pretty much one export: poppies and poppy by-products. Abandonment of the US' insipid and wasteful War on Drugs would help Afghanistan immensely. (While I have a hard time staying on topic even *I* can see that derailment coming a long ways down the tracks, so I won't veer off any further into the subject.) I'm still convinced that Iraq is not--and never has been--a short-term commitment. More on that later. Hussein should never have been left in power after the initial invasion in 1991 in the first place. We stirred the pudding and left before the job was completed ostensibly leaving the Shiites and Kurds out to dry. Interesting (strangely ON topic) sidebar: I would guess if we had gone in there, I would still have forces in Baghdad today. We'd be running the country. We would not have been able to get everybody out and bring everybody home. And the final point that I think needs to be made is this question of casualties. I don't think you could have done all of that without significant additional U.S. casualties, and while everybody was tremendously impressed with the low cost of the (1991) conflict, for the 146 Americans who were killed in action and for their families, it wasn't a cheap war. And the question in my mind is, how many additional American casualties is Saddam (Hussein) worth? And the answer is, not that damned many. So, I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the President made the decision that we'd achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq.[15] - Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney, 1992 How ten years or so will change a guy's frame of thought, eh? Hussein routinely violated the terms of the peace conference. He blocked UN nuclear inspectors. He refused access to areas. He routinely fired on coalition planes in the no-fly zones. He used the Oil For Food Program to better his own position (and those of at least one US oil exec (Bay Chalmers), The National Bank of Paris, Al-Qaeda, and Kofi Annan, among others). His removal, arguably ten years too late, was justified, but is also a calculated risk. I don't think anyone ever considered Iraq would be a quick process and I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see it turn into an endeavor spanning at least a half, if not full, generation. It's the creation of a democratic state in the heart of the Middle East. Why not just point out Hussein's irascibility and flagrant breaking of US and UN policy as grounds for invasion instead of touting the old WMDs? Because in the first place I'm not convinced anyone could say with any level of certainty that they *didn't* exist (Hussein stopped admitting the inspectors and never *really* accommodated them in the first place). Secondly, no one would have gotten on board if told, "yeah! It'll be great. Why, fifteen or twenty years from now ..." Is such an experiment justified, and furthermore who appointed the US Lord and Master and asked us to tackle it? That I don't know. With Hussein you had a tyrant of a leader who was routinely flaunting his contempt for the greater world community, has killed his own people and grievously suppressed minorities. Is it our duty/moral obligation to remove him? I could see the argument towards it, but at the same time then why aren't preemptive actions ever taken in other places in the world like the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Sierra Leone, Liberia, or Sudan? Because they're poor, chiefly. Does it make it right? Nope. What sets Iraq apart is where it is and who lives in it, not its natural resources, per se. It's location, location, location. Yes it has natural resources that are in demand (duh), but those same resources are what will allow Iraq to stand on its own as an independent country. I believe the political military machine that took this action had a two-pronged purpose here: Get rid of a dictator (look good) and plant the seeds of a democratic country in a relatively secular country in the belly of the Islamo-fascist beast. The same changes couldn't be done with an intervention in Sierra Leone which hasn't much of an economy, nor the resources/industrial complex to build one, unless you count some bauxite mines (but who does?). There more than a few countries and/or socio-political movements that want nothing more than to either flat out destroy or, at the least, neuter the US on most any ground imaginable. (And congrats, Canada. It seems you've got some of your own ...) Militarily, economically, socially, etc. there are elements that want to harm the US. Chief among them would be radical Islam, but I would be remiss if I didn't include such minor leaguers as eco-fascists (Greenpeace, the ALF, the ELF, etc.), The Mexican Government, John Murtha, and probably over half of the UN. A democratic state in the Middle East could offer alternatives to those living under hard line religious leaders who often prey upon the poor and under-educated, control all forms of media and education. And this Gay Marriage Amendment crap is enough to make me vomit. In the first place it should scare the ever-loving *shit* out of people on both sides of the aisle (and closet door). Here we're proposing for the first time to *restrict* a right via Constitutional Amendment as opposed to *protecting/expanding* one. Secondly (and lastly), it's *such* a frickin' vacuous, thinly-veiled election-year-eve sideways bluff to draw attention away from the administration's intentional spinelessness on the immigration issue, flagrant hispandering and amnesty carrot-dangling. Not to mention it's just plain wrong, you fucking fuckers!* - -f. - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) * The "fucking fucker" I refer to are our elected representatives in Washington, not in any way to be misconstrued with the readers of this fine list who are, by and large, far from fucking fuckers, but rather a dandy group of characters. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:37:46 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again (Or the worst thread hijacking EVER) On 6/5/06, FSThomas wrote: > > Stacked Crooked wrote: > > Oh, I still think that the rest of the world can go fuck itself; that > hasn't changed. There or may not be some way to track the lists' cycles as one would a mental patient, but this much is sure: any discussion of R.E.M. is inevitably follow by a pugilistic partisan political pile-on... - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 18:55:55 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again (Or the worst thread hijacking EVER) FSThomas wrote: > > readers of this fine list who are, > by and large, far from fucking fuckers, ... I think we rather prefer to use the term of endearment "fucking fucks", which we understood to be far from fucking fuckers all along. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:03:33 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Permanent Underwater Waves On Jun 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > Nope... basically inhaled second-hand KROQ and assumed that, since > all the > radio I heard was as bad as what I grew up with, all radio was bad > (music-wise anyhow). Didn't really delve into NPR until years > later. What > the hell was the name of that short-lived, > pseudo-techno-but-actually-cooler-than-that station that Swedish Eagle > started in the early '90's? MARS-FM? Any help here, Eb? Yassir...MARS. Same frequency which now has Indie 103.1! I wish I had started listening to KROQ earlier...I just wasn't hip enough to know, back in the early days when it had an indie/ underground/free-form mindset. But I haven't listened to it for even a moment, ever since Indie 103.1 arose. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:12:00 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Something tells me others will be more affected by this than me (reap) BURBANK, Calif. (June 4) - Alex Toth, a maverick comic artist who designed classic Hanna Barbera adventure cartoons such as "The Superfriends" and "Space Ghost," has died. Toth died while sitting at his drawing table at his home in Burbank on May 27, his son Eric said. He was 77. Eric Toth said the cause of death had not yet been determined, but his father had been in failing health for years. Before working in animation, Toth was a comic book artist, widely regarded as brilliant, who had some success but even more frustration. He rarely held on to an artist job for long because of a simple, subtle drawing style and a stubborn adherence to his artistic principles. And he preferred pirate tales and westerns over the more popular super hero comics. "Toth was one of the most brilliant artists ever in comic books but also someone who was the odd man out in many ways," said comics publisher and critic Gary Groth. "He was never associated with a particular character, and he was pushed off to marginal titles." But Toth's forms would prove influential in underground comics and graphic novels in later decades. Comic artist Will Eisner called him "a mastery of realism within a stunning illustrative style." Toth was born in New York, where he lived and worked until settling in San Jose in the late 1950s. While living there he worked for Dell Comics on titles derived from television shows like "Sea Hunt" and "Zorro." That led to animation work in Southern California, where he moved in 1964. Drawing for Hanna Barbera in the 1960s and 1970s, Toth designed characters for adventure cartoons "Jonny Quest" and "The Herculoids" in addition to "The Superfriends" and "Space Ghost," and he achieved the wider recognition and commercial success that had eluded him. "The work he did there touched more lives than anything else he had done," said Paul Levitz, president and publisher of DC Comics. "He found ways to take characters like Superman from their more complicated printed form into a simpler form for animation that still held on to their power and majesty." Toth is survived by sons Eric and Damon Toth, daughters Dana Palmer and Carrie Morash, and four grandchildren. At Alex Toth's request, no memorial service was planned. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #125 ********************************