From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #124 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, June 5 2006 Volume 15 : Number 124 Today's Subjects: ----------------- My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again [FSThomas ] Re: Remain in My Top Five for Two Decades ["Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again no, give 'em only until day-after-tomorrow (6/6/6). 6/6/6 *should* be the most-anticipated day of my life -- yet i just can't seem to get excited about its coming. i've developed a problem with *10,000 Days*, by the way. kind of like when one builds up a tolerance to a drug, and needs a greater and greater quantity to scratch the itch; i find myself wanting, but unable, to increase the volume even more than the maximum allowed by my set-up. and my enjoyment of the record is thus not what it once had been. well, yeah, you *could* do that -- if your motive were to benefit society, or some stupid shit like that. but if your motive is personal gratification, you'd have a great deal more fun were you to go ahead and "ditgitize" *eb's* "long-player". looks like you want only songs in which the city itself features prominently. but if you wanna expand the purview a bit, try: New Pornographers, "The Laws Have Changed" Joseph Arthur, "All Of Our Hands" Green Day, "American Idiot" Sleater-Kinney, "Combat Rock" Violent Femmes, "I Hate The President" Mr. Jones & The Fascists, "Drug War" Mark Gloster & Big Rubber Shark, "Mayor Of Mytown" Dead Milkmen, "Right-Wing Pigeons" Guns 'n' Rose, "Civil War" Neil Young & Crazy Horse, "Blowin' In The Wind" Billy Bragg, "The Marching Song Of Covert Battalions" Rage Against The Machine, "Vietnow" Dan Bern, "Children Of The Cold War" Husker Du, "Newest Industry" TOOL, "The Pot" Bright Eyes, "When The President Talks To God" Chumbawamba, "Mouthful Of Shit" ...and, of course: John Ashcroft, "Let The Eagle Soar" <> but its lies were (for better or worse) at least *somewhat* specious. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 22:53:19 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: rusty! hilly! Can I just say that the US Steel building in Pittsburgh (where I'm attending the American Wind Energy Association Conference), while supposed to have a natural patina, just looks rusty, and has left red streaks down the pavement? Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:21:21 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again Stacked Crooked wrote: > > no, give 'em only until day-after-tomorrow (6/6/6). I've been sampling from 10,000 Days, and I'm kind of getting waves of meh. Any outstanding tracks, or is it all drony slowness? Stewart np: A C Newman, "Souvenir of Canada" soundtrack: souvenirofcanada.com (warning: Douglas Coupland content) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 23:56:22 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again Stacked Crooked wrote: > <> > > > > but its lies were (for better or worse) at least *somewhat* specious. I had just this same discussion with The Wife yesterday. The gist of it was that it doesn't so much matter the volume of the lie, but the location. Being "under oath" carrying the weight. Example: On The Stand I say "my favorite color is blue." I'm wearing a green suit. A green undershirt. Green underwear. Green socks. Shit, for the sake of argument, I've got green shoes on--the leprechaun type with the curly toes. There's fifteen defense witnesses who testify under oath that my favorite color is green. My wife testifies that I said on our wedding day, before friends and family, "till death do us part, and by the way, my favorite color is green." The average independent observer, with some time to kill and an even head might pronounce me a liar. A jury might agree. In Bizarro World I say "I didn't know anything about X energy deal that caused a company to go bankrupt." There's fifteen defense witnesses who testify under oath that I *did* indeed know about X deal, and I laughed. My wife testifies that I said on our wedding day, before friends and family, "till death do us part and by the way, we made an absolute killing on the market off that energy deal. Screw the general public." In my (our) opinion, it doesn't make a difference if you're lying over your color preference or an energy deal, or a war. You're lying under oath. Under the same guidelines Clinton's "I did not have ..." should carry the same weight as anyone's anything anywhere under oath. Specious or not, lies under oath are lies under oath. Perjury should carry penalties no mater the weight of the lie. - -f. - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 00:12:13 -0400 From: "ken ostrander" Subject: set time machine to 1980...no wait...1968 quoth The Great Quail quail@libyrinth.com: >1980 remains my own personal musical anno mirabilis. Robyn's "Underwater >Moonlight," U2's debut LP "Boy," Rush's "Permanent Waves," The Cure's >"Seventeen Seconds," and best of all, The Talking Head's "Remain in Light" >and Bowie's "Scary Monsters," both of which are on my Top Ten Holy Fuck >Albums of All Time List. Ah, sweet 1980. Hell, I'm even kind of fond of Yes' >"Drama." i feel the same way 'bout 1980 (and 'remain in light' and 'scary monsters' [though i'd add 'underwater moonlight to my holy fuck list]); but you missed: the first pretenders album, the clash's 'london calling' (released in december '79 in england and january '80 in the states - 'sandinista!' came in december of 1980 as well!), the police's 'zenyatta mondatta', echo & the bunnymen's 'crocodiles', mcmanus' 'get happy', joy division's 'closer', the beat's 'i just can't stop it', prince's 'dirty mind', marley's 'uprising', wonder's 'hotter than july', x's 'los angeles', springsteen's 'the river', split enz' 'true colours', the undertones hypnotized, genesis' 'duke', [someone mentioned gabriel's III] benetars crimes of passion, jim carroll's 'catholic boy', waits heartattack & vine, beefhearts doc at the radar station, winwoods arc of a diver, townsend's 'empty glass', and john & yoko's 'double fantasy'. all of these are excellent. theres even room for guily pleasures like olivia newton john (w/ e.l.o.) and barbra streisand (w/ barry gibb). i'm still discovering music that came out that year. i wasn't buying records until a couple of years later; but this year has a high ratio of faves. i had a co-worker at record town (back in the day) that used to hold that 1968 was the greatest year ever for music with the claim that "there isn't a bad album that came out that year". that's always stuck with me (since i was born that year) and i have yet to disprove his claim. i have stuck with both u2 and r.e.m. lo these many years and i have great respect for both bands and the activism of the lead singers especially; but i have to say that the boys from dublin have managed to keep things interesting all the way through (i even like rattle and hum, though it's at the bottom of the list for me). the lads from athens have had a hard time since bill left; but there are some bright moments on everything thats come since. still, its not enough. with the lackluster singles, i couldnt bring myself to get around the sun until i found it in the used bin. still looking for spooked & luxor there, by the way. ken "the boy with the thorn in his side" the kenster ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 23:15:23 -0500 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again > I've been sampling from 10,000 Days, and I'm kind of getting waves of > meh. Any outstanding tracks, or is it all drony slowness? That's close to my experience too. I got it because, well, apparently I *had* to. I get a kinetic kind of thrill when it's really loud in the car. I do enjoy that. And I appreciate the rhythmic chops -- some serious math going on there. I guess I just wish they'd try to match their metric skills with a few more melodic surprises. I find myself seriously wondering if there's this cult of music fans who actively disdain chord changes, like "if you can't say it all with meter, then shut the fuck up!" So, is there? +brian (Eb's, uh, sweet ass or whatever) in New Orleans ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 01:26:23 -0500 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again >> I've been sampling from 10,000 Days, and I'm kind of getting waves of >> meh. Any outstanding tracks, or is it all drony slowness? On Jun 4, 2006, at 11:15 PM, Brian Huddell wrote: > That's close to my experience too. I got it because, well, > apparently I > *had* to. I get a kinetic kind of thrill when it's really loud in > the car. > I do enjoy that. And I appreciate the rhythmic chops -- some > serious math > going on there. I guess I just wish they'd try to match their > metric skills > with a few more melodic surprises. Try some Porcupine Tree. - - Steve __________ No matter where you go, there you are. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 23:41:35 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: set time machine to 1980...no wait...1968 ken ostrander wrote: >but you missed: > the first pretenders album, the clash's 'london calling' (released in > december '79 in england and january '80 in the states - 'sandinista!' > came in december of 1980 as well!), the police's 'zenyatta mondatta', > echo & the bunnymen's 'crocodiles', mcmanus' 'get happy', joy > division's > 'closer', the beat's 'i just can't stop it', prince's 'dirty mind', > marley's 'uprising', wonder's 'hotter than july', x's 'los angeles', > springsteen's 'the river', split enz' 'true colours', the undertones > hypnotized, genesis' 'duke', [someone mentioned gabriel's III] > benetars crimes of passion, jim carroll's 'catholic boy', waits > heartattack & vine, beefhearts doc at the radar station, > winwoods > arc of a diver, townsend's 'empty glass', and john & yoko's 'double > fantasy'. all of these are excellent. theres even room for guily > pleasures like olivia newton john (w/ e.l.o.) and barbra streisand (w/ > barry gibb). And you're missing a Shift key. > i'm still discovering music that came out that year. i wasn't buying > records until a couple of years later; but this year has a high > ratio of > faves. i had a co-worker at record town (back in the day) that used to > hold that 1968 was the greatest year ever for music with the claim > that > "there isn't a bad album that came out that year". that's always stuck > with me (since i was born that year) and i have yet to disprove his > claim. I'm not 100% sure, but I probably agree with your friend about 1968 being the best. Though there were certainly some bad albums...I even own some of them. ;) Two Richard Harris albums, two Tiny Tim albums, two Monkees albums, In-a-Gadda-da-Vida, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, Mass in F Minor, The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles & Fripp.... Recommended film of the weekend: "The Woodsman." Excellent. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 08:10:05 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On 6/4/06, FSThomas wrote: > > Stacked Crooked wrote: > > > < apt...>> > > > > > > > > but its lies were (for better or worse) at least *somewhat* specious. > > I had just this same discussion with The Wife yesterday. The gist of it > was that it doesn't so much matter the volume of the lie, but the > location. Being "under oath" carrying the weight. > > Example: > > On The Stand I say "my favorite color is blue." I'm wearing a green > suit. A green undershirt. Green underwear. Green socks. Shit, for > the sake of argument, I've got green shoes on--the leprechaun type with > the curly toes. There's fifteen defense witnesses who testify under > oath that my favorite color is green. My wife testifies that I said on > our wedding day, before friends and family, "till death do us part, and > by the way, my favorite color is green." > > The average independent observer, with some time to kill and an even > head might pronounce me a liar. A jury might agree. > > In Bizarro World I say "I didn't know anything about X energy deal that > caused a company to go bankrupt." There's fifteen defense witnesses who > testify under oath that I *did* indeed know about X deal, and I laughed. > My wife testifies that I said on our wedding day, before friends and > family, "till death do us part and by the way, we made an absolute > killing on the market off that energy deal. Screw the general public." > > In my (our) opinion, it doesn't make a difference if you're lying over > your color preference or an energy deal, or a war. You're lying under > oath. At one level, of course you're correct. But one question is: what the hell are you doing having to testify to your favorite color under oath? Does your favorite color have FA to do with the performance of your job? Or is the only reason you're up there testifying about blue and green that a gang of religiously inspired zealots, who fear and loathe green with a fiery blue passion, have decided that you should forced to testify about your abiding love for green? Frankly, I wish Clinton had just said, "Fuck you - what I did with Li'l Slick Willy is the business of me and Hillary and that's it." In other words, while it's true that Clinton lied under oath and should not have, it's an abuse of the legal system to have gotten him up there to testify about his sex life in the first place. To me, that's a greater crime than lying, even under oath. Oh - and sending thousands to their pointless deaths is also rather a bit worse than fudging about the whereabouts of one's pecker also. Even under oath. Because I really don't want this discussion to go on (cuz we all know where it will go), I will say: Hey, if you were sheltering Jews under the Nazis and the Nazis had you under oath and asked whether you were sheltering Jews, would you tell the truth, or would you lie? Ha - look - it's that Godwin fella shutting us all up! - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 07:42:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Cris Kirkwood update This may be old news in parts, but it's the first I'd heard since the stories of his being missing and presumed in heroin-induced coma (or worse) came out: "A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer." -- Mitch Hedberg "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk. And we learned to listen. Speech has allowed the communication of ideas, enabling human beings to work together. To build the impossible. Mankind's greatest achievements have come about by talking. And it's greatest failures by NOT talking. It doesn't have to be like this! Our greatest hopes could become reality in the future. With the technology at our disposal, the possibilities are unbounded. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking. -- Stephen W. Hawking . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:09:49 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again 2fs wrote: > But one question is: what the hell are you doing having to testify to your > favorite color under oath? Does your favorite color have FA to do with the > performance of your job? Or is the only reason you're up there testifying > about blue and green that a gang of religiously inspired zealots, who fear > and loathe green with a fiery blue passion, have decided that you should > forced to testify about your abiding love for green? You miss the point. > Frankly, I wish Clinton had just said, "Fuck you - what I did with Li'l > Slick Willy is the business of me and Hillary and that's it." I would have respected him a Hell of a lot more if he'd said, "yes, we had an affair." Firstly: so much as a side-long glance at Hillary and anyone would completely understand and secondly it would have deflated the whole situation and it would have just gone away. > In other words, while it's true that Clinton lied under oath and should not > have, it's an abuse of the legal system to have gotten him up there to > testify about his sex life in the first place. To me, that's a greater crime > than lying, even under oath. I thought the whole thing came about as part of Whitewater. Maybe not. The pertinence of the question matters not. What *does* matter are the circumstances under which it's asked. "Under oath" involves swearing to do something along the lines of "telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth." Throw a "so help you, God," in there, too if you like. It's a binding promise, one that if you break there are consequences. Insert semi-unrelated tirade here * There's a little concept called "The Rule of Law." Read up on it some time; it's a hoot. > Because I really don't want this discussion to go on (cuz we all know where > it will go), I will say: Hey, if you were sheltering Jews under the Nazis > and the Nazis had you under oath and asked whether you were sheltering Jews, > would you tell the truth, or would you lie? Ha - look - it's that Godwin > fella shutting us all up! I don't think that in the grand scheme of things you can weigh the morality/ethics of Slick Willy's testimony with perjuring yourself to the Third Reich. Apples to oranges, IMHO. - -f. * It would appear in the case of Clinton, there aren't any consequences, but he's not alone in skating. Go down to your closest court house or Federal office building and bypass security. When the cop stops you, turn around and just slug a cop in the face. See if it takes nine weeks (and counting) to bring charges against you. I would tend to doubt you and I would get away with it, but if you were Cynthia McKinney and in DC you might. Run off some fake passports and/or social security cards for you and your friends and check to see if you get charges of forgery brought against you when you get caught. Not so if you're in the States illegally. You get let go. The point is you have to apply all laws to all people. The US is a nation of Laws, not of Man, and the country won't survive long when laws apply to some and not others. Eventually it will deteriorate into a totalitarian/authoritarian mess.** Does lying about where you left your Johnson matter in the grand scheme? No. Not suffering the penalties for BREAKING THE LAW does. From /Common Sense/: ... the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America THE LAW IS KING. For as in absolute governments the King is law, so in free countries the law OUGHT to be King; and there ought to be no other. http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/sense4.htm If you can't sense the importance of equal representation under the law and equal enforcement, then there's little point in continuing this discussion. ** And, no, it's not that way now. - -- FS Thomas | Interactive Developer | fsthomas-at-ochremedia.com 404.758.8616 (home/office) | 404.274.1632 (mobile) | ferraatu (AIM) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:06:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, FSThomas wrote: > 2fs wrote: > > > But one question is: what the hell are you doing having to testify to your > > favorite color under oath? Does your favorite color have FA to do with the > > performance of your job? Or is the only reason you're up there testifying > > about blue and green that a gang of religiously inspired zealots, who fear > > and loathe green with a fiery blue passion, have decided that you should > > forced to testify about your abiding love for green? > > You miss the point. I think he understood your point; he was just denying that it was an important point, especially when ranking recent presidents. Re: the equal enforcement thang, from what I've heard most prosecutors would not bother to bring perjury charges if the perjury in question was on a matter that was ruled irrelevant, in a case that was later dismissed. That would be the judicial equivalent of traffic cops pulling over every single driver they spotted going 1 mph over the speed limit. Clinton was prosecuted MORE than the average Joe in his position would have been. Re: the rule of law, any opinions on a president who, while signing a bill into law, openly announces that he will break that very same law whenever he sees fit? - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:46:58 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: My name is "Eb", and I've shit the bed again On 6/5/06, FSThomas wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > > But one question is: what the hell are you doing having to testify to > your > > favorite color under oath? Does your favorite color have FA to do with > the > > performance of your job? Or is the only reason you're up there > testifying > > about blue and green that a gang of religiously inspired zealots, who > fear > > and loathe green with a fiery blue passion, have decided that you should > > forced to testify about your abiding love for green? > > You miss the point. Not really: I changed the point - which I outlined below: > In other words, while it's true that Clinton lied under oath and should > not > > have, it's an abuse of the legal system to have gotten him up there to > > testify about his sex life in the first place. To me, that's a greater > crime > > than lying, even under oath. > > I thought the whole thing came about as part of Whitewater. Maybe not. Well, "as a part of Whitewater" is true if you mean "as a consequence of the fact that try as they might, they couldn't find anything illegal about Whitewater, their actual target, and so they sniffed around to try to find absolutely anything they could nail to Clinton, found he'd had an affair, and somehow connected that." I mean, Monica Lewinsky has nothing to do with real-estate transactions in Arkansas, does she. The pertinence of the question matters not. What *does* matter are the > circumstances under which it's asked. "Under oath" involves swearing to > do something along the lines of "telling the whole truth and nothing but > the truth." Throw a "so help you, God," in there, too if you like. > It's a binding promise, one that if you break there are consequences. > > Insert semi-unrelated tirade here * > > There's a little concept called "The Rule of Law." Look, I do understand what you're saying. It is wrong, and illegal, to lie under oath. I am suggesting that it is in some ways a deeper wrong to use the court system as a means to destroy a presidency for political purposes. Clinton's sexual behavior was not, in itself, illegal*, and was not the subject of the investigation. He never should have been asked those questions under oath. While there may or may not be any law against manipulating the legal system in such ways, arguments about the ethics of the applicability and appropriate use of the law by definition take priority over arguments about obeying the law - because if the law itself is unethical, illegitimate or unconstitutional, or has been applied in an unfit or discriminatory way, the law itself would never have come into play regarding the person. So my argument comes down to this: it is a greater wrong and offense against the law to misuse it, to bend its powers capriciously against a person for political gain, than it is to simply violate a particular law (perhaps particularly when that violation comes about only because of the capricious misuse). And such a statement, I'd say, absolutely supports the rule of law - - because law that is arbitrary and prejudiciously enforced dissipates the power of law generally. It's actually the same principle underlying perjury, in fact: if the law is not respected, if its authority is disregarded or abused, the whole structure is at risk. That's why lying under oath is a crime - whereas lying to a person in everyday life is not (in most circumstances). There's a mote in Clinton's eye, to be sure. But there's an enormous beam in the Republicans'. And I suppose this is all terrible bad relativism. Except even you, even after your speech about the rule of law (in your earlier post), surely are unlikely to argue that, say, jaywalking, being against the law, is just as bad as murder. Or another angle: I doubt anyone here can say they've never broken any law. So demanding that all laws be enforced at all times would seem to lead, first, to require one's own lawbreaking to be punished. Otherwise it's asking someone else to bear the brunt of one's principles while escaping it oneself.** What's frustrating about these discussions, of course, is that while some people still focus angrily on the buzzing gnat of Clinton's perjury, there's a whole freaking armada of far more egregious and dangerous sharks set loose by the current administration's lawbreaking and manipulation of the law that somehow tends never to exercise so many of those still so upset by Clinton. Why is that? * barring antiquated, unenforced statutes against "sodomy" and the like that may exist... ** See lack of G.W. Bush's speeches expressing his disappointment that neither of his daughters has enlisted in the armed services, what with the troop shortage and the important patriotic war he's got going on. Patriotism starts at home, no? - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:55:23 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: reap On 6/3/06, Eb wrote: >> >> http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/14733022.htm >> >> Vince Welnick, 55, who played keyboards with the Grateful Dead for five >> years before the death of band founder Jerry Garcia, died Friday. Jeff came back with: >The moral of the story is: do not play Dead songs on keyboard, unless you >are a Scientologist. (The news story on Welnick's death pointed out that >even the keyboard player for a Dead cover band, the Dark Star Orchestra, >died of a heart attack last year.) >Man, Jerry and the boys must have done something to piss off L. Ron Hubbard >and/or the keyboard manufacturing industry. I guess that means the clock is running on the Allman Brothers to keep up by having another bass player die. Berry Oakley, Lamar Williams and Allen Woody so far. Keep safe David Golflies (1979-82) and Otiel(current)! Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:07:56 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Remain in My Top Five for Two Decades On 6/2/06, Marc Alberts wrote: > > > For me, 1980 was, except for "Boy," a non-year. I was just a hair too > young > to be really into music at that point. My heyday really started in 1982 > or > so, when I hit middle school. For clarity's sake, I probably didn't start listening to pop music until 1986 or so, so my real only favorite record of 1980 at the time was probaly "The Story of The Empire Strikes BacK" on vinyl. Pre-VCR, you know, and I was nine. But when I did start listening to rock, it didn't take long for me to zero in on 1980 (back to '77) as the period I cherished most. REMAIN IN LIGHT was my first avowed favorite album, and as noted remains Top Five to this day... so I guess it's been up there for 20 years. (FABLES is another album to which all the above applies. GLOBE OF FROGS has usually been in at least the Top 10 since it was released, athough there've been years when I swapped it out for other RH or SB's records.) - -Rx ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #124 ********************************