From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #112 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, May 23 2006 Volume 15 : Number 112 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Elf Power ["Michael Wells" ] RE: fegmaniax-digest V15 #109 ["Bachman, Michael" ] re: cartoons ["Marc Holden" ] Re: Science fiction and superheroes [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: sorta related [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] Re: Science fiction and superheroes [2fs ] RE: Science fiction and superheroes ["Marc Alberts" ] 24 [Eb ] Re: Science fiction and superheroes [The Great Quail ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: Science fiction and superheroes ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] RE: Science fiction and superheroes ["Bachman, Michael" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 11:41:20 -0500 From: "Michael Wells" Subject: RE: Elf Power >Which is what I do, saving me the trouble from figureing out what the fuck >genre any of my records are. As I've long maintained, the most sensible solution is to organize by increasing order of funkiness. Unfortunately iTunes doesn't have a tab for that... Michael "Elvis Costello, bringin' tha funk" Wells n.p. John Fred & the Playboys ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 15:28:33 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: fegmaniax-digest V15 #109 On May 20, 2006, at 12:22 PM, grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: >> >Joni Mitchell-Hejira >> >>>This is my favorite Joni album. The songwriting has moved on from >>> directly >>> confessional to more literary without quite being as up-its-own-butt >>> as >>> she's become. Jaco Pastorius on fretless doesn't hurt a thing. > >> seconded. The only Joni album I keep on anywhere near high rotate. > >Joni saw me through some tough times as a teenager but the only album >that has stayed in my collection is Hejira. It's damn fine. >And Donovan? I third the above list and also agree on A Gift From a >Flower to a Garden and Sunshine Superman. All of these are in my >library, still only on vinyl however. I was always under the impression that Blue would be most people's favorite by Joni. "A Case Of You" from Blue certainly seems to be the popular cover song of hers that a lot of female Canadian singers are covering these days. I never picked up Hejira, I'll have to check it out. My Donavon collection is pretty sad. It consists of the 60's hit collection on vinyl that I bought bought many moons ago. Michael B. NP Massive Attack - Protection ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 17:00:53 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter Jr." Subject: EAC for OS X? Anybody know of a program similar to Exact Audio Copy for OS X? I'd like to do error-free dups of CDs. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 14:31:11 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: re: cartoons Rex said: >Clearly some of this should NOT be seen by the kids, >but I kinda want to find a few more of these... >they're historically fascinating and when they're funny, >damn are they funny, and surpisingly modern in their >sensibilities. Anyway. I really like seeing some of those old, less than acceptable cartoons. Somewhere buried on my desk, I have a DVD dub of "Song of the South", taken from the Japanese laserdisc. I love people's attempts to re-write the past. I went to Tokyo Disneyland once, and they had an exhibit about the history of Japan (in the same sort of building as the Theatre of Tomorrow--sponsored by G.E., at Disneyland in Anaheim). When they started to get into the early/mid 20th century, the lights in the theatre all went out and over the translating headphones you hear, "Then there was a dark period...But that is over now." After a couple of moments the lights all turned back on, seeming extra bright, and there on the stage was glorious, modern Japan. Kind of on a related note, remember Sambo's restaurants? I thought they had all been brow-beaten out of existence, but I saw one when I went to Oregon last year--I just looked it up on line, and I guess it is technically called "Lil Sambo's Restaurant". The information I found says that the original location, in Santa Barbara, is still open. Later, Marc Take away the right to say 'fuck' and you take away the right to say 'fuck the government'. Lenny Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:31:13 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: Science fiction and superheroes > > But yeah--great film. It almost >> isn't even a superhero film in the same way that Battlestar Galactica (the >> SciFi Channel version) almost isn't a science fiction series. > >Oh, that hurts. It's one thing to say that a work of genre fiction has >successfully escaped the clichis of that genre; or that it deals with >broader issues than the typical trappings of a genre. But if something is >great, it should just be great. > >I'm not saying that labels are useless. I mean, someone who *hates* science >fiction may still dislike any work of SF, no matter how amazing. But to act >like greatness somehow absolves or dissolves a genre is just falling into a >trap laid by generations of dead academics. There's no reason a work of >horror cannot also be a great work of literature or cinema. Look at Stanley >Kubrick -- many of his greatest works are science fiction or horror. Thoroughly agree. SF is ghettoised and despised by "literary types" and publishers alike, which is why they try so often to disguise science fiction by calling it other names. Even some authors who should know better and who write the stuff say "oh no - it's nothing like science fiction. This just deals with events in a possible future in a dystopian society - there are no bug-eyed monsters and rocket ships." Margaret Atwood is one of the worst for that - oh no, she's never written science fiction (despite "The Handmaid's Tale" winning the Arthur C. Clarke Award). James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:31:17 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: sorta related >Sorta related, my kids went to a birthday party recently and in the gift >basket was a budget DVD compilation of old cartoons (mosly WB but some from >random other studios, one black & white, one silent, one more stop motion >than cell, a real mixed bag) apparently now either in the public domain or >close to it. Abysmal telecine of faded prints, just as bad as you remember >from Channel Five as a kid.[...] sorta related to sorta related... I recently got the DVD of all that is known to still exist of "Do not adjust your set" - a pre-Monty Python kid's show that featured several of the faces later to go on to the flyin circus. I used to LOVE this show as a wee kid, and some of it still holds together very well. Much of the rest is extremely bad and bewilderingly odd. Budget seems to have been three shillings and a piece of string. Among the "bewilderingly odd" are regular performances by the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band, and some of the sketches clearly point the way forward to what the Pythons would achieve. Weird, wonderful, and excruciating simultaneously. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 21:15:07 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Science fiction and superheroes On 5/22/06, grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > > > Thoroughly agree. SF is ghettoised and despised by "literary types" > and publishers alike, which is why they try so often to disguise > science fiction by calling it other names. Even some authors who > should know better and who write the stuff say "oh no - it's nothing > like science fiction. This just deals with events in a possible > future in a dystopian society - there are no bug-eyed monsters and > rocket ships." Margaret Atwood is one of the worst for that - oh no, > she's never written science fiction (despite "The Handmaid's Tale" > winning the Arthur C. Clarke Award). Or Oryx and Crake. Although I wasn't very persuaded that that was all that good. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 21:41:05 -0700 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: Science fiction and superheroes Quail wrote: > Marc writes, > > > But yeah--great film. It almost > > isn't even a superhero film in the same way that Battlestar Galactica > (the > > SciFi Channel version) almost isn't a science fiction series. > > Oh, that hurts. It's one thing to say that a work of genre fiction has > successfully escaped the clichis of that genre; or that it deals with > broader issues than the typical trappings of a genre. But if something is > great, it should just be great. > > I'm not saying that labels are useless. I mean, someone who *hates* > science > fiction may still dislike any work of SF, no matter how amazing. But you see, it's those who hate SF who would ignore something like Battlestar Galactica simply because it is SF that I am specifically addressing. People who don't like superhero films are going to be far more likely IMO to like Batman Begins than the average superhero film, and people who don't like SF films are far more likely IMO to like BG than the average SF show, if only they would give it a chance. I agree with you--many, however, do not and are stuck in the genres and I was trying to point that out. > But to > act > like greatness somehow absolves or dissolves a genre is just falling into > a > trap laid by generations of dead academics. There's no reason a work of > horror cannot also be a great work of literature or cinema. Look at > Stanley > Kubrick -- many of his greatest works are science fiction or horror. Unless I'm mistaken only three of his films would qualify as SF or horror (2001, A Clockwork Orange, and The Shining). Do three qualify as many? He made more films about war than that. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 22:04:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: RE: Science fiction and superheroes Marc Alberts wrote: > Quail wrote: > > But to act like greatness somehow absolves > > or dissolves a genre is just falling into > > a trap laid by generations of dead academics. > > There's no reason a work of horror cannot also > > be a great work of literature or cinema. Look > > at Stanley Kubrick -- many of his greatest works > > are science fiction or horror. > > Unless I'm mistaken only three of his films would > qualify as SF or horror (2001, A Clockwork Orange, > and The Shining). Do three qualify as many? He > made more films about war than that. Of course, he also only directed 16 films. And it's those three -- along with Strangelove and Spartacus; maybe Full Metal Jacket and Paths to Glory -- that his are the bulk of his reputation, at least among the masses. 3 of 16 is arguably many; 3 of 7 certainly is. "A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer." -- Mitch Hedberg . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 22:33:10 -0700 From: Eb Subject: 24 Jeff Dwarf wrote: > Of course, he also only directed 16 films. And it's > those three -- along with Strangelove and Spartacus; > maybe Full Metal Jacket and Paths to Glory -- that his > are the bulk of his reputation, at least among the > masses. 3 of 16 is arguably many; 3 of 7 certainly is. "The Killing" is a fantastic film, though it doesn't get discussed too much. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 09:27:34 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Science fiction and superheroes > But you see, it's those who hate SF who would ignore something like > Battlestar Galactica simply because it is SF that I am specifically > addressing. Yeah, but by saying that it's so good it's almost not science fiction, I feel that you are doing both parties a disservice. It's not a big thing, and I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I just get uncomfortable with apologist stances, especially for genres I know and love. This is also why I said that labels are still useful. There are folks out there who will *not* watch BSG because it's set in space and has robots and such. Their loss! (Though on a different note, I think "Batman Begins" still resides pretty squarely in the superhero film genre. It's a good one, granted, but it still gives in to most of the trappings, and fails to really explore some of its darker themes.) > Unless I'm mistaken only three of his films would qualify as SF or horror > (2001, A Clockwork Orange, and The Shining). Do three qualify as many? He > made more films about war than that. Yeah, but those are a pretty impressive "big three." And I think that "Barry Lyndon" is also fantasy/horror, but that's just my opinion! - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 08:19:32 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Science fiction and superheroes On 5/23/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > > > Yeah, but those are a pretty impressive "big three." And I think that > "Barry > Lyndon" is also fantasy/horror, but that's just my opinion! Unless I'm forgetting something, "Barry Lyndon" is the only one I haven't seen, although I remember being told in film school that he had NASA grind him special lenses for some of the "impossible" cinematography. So if it's not science fiction, it might at least be science... - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 08:20:01 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Fwd: 24 On 5/22/06, Eb wrote: > > Jeff Dwarf wrote: > > Of course, he also only directed 16 films. And it's > > those three -- along with Strangelove and Spartacus; > > maybe Full Metal Jacket and Paths to Glory -- that his > > are the bulk of his reputation, at least among the > > masses. 3 of 16 is arguably many; 3 of 7 certainly is. > > "The Killing" is a fantastic film, though it doesn't get discussed > too much. Might be because on the surface it's not instantly recognizable as (what would come to be known as) Kubrickian. But it sure is good, and you can definitely see more than a few signs of what he'd get into later. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 08:26:18 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Science fiction and superheroes On 5/23/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > > But you see, it's those who hate SF who would ignore something like > > Battlestar Galactica simply because it is SF that I am specifically > > addressing. > > Yeah, but by saying that it's so good it's almost not science fiction, I > feel that you are doing both parties a disservice. It's not a big thing, > and > I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I just get uncomfortable with > apologist stances, especially for genres I know and love. I think that the apologist stance might be more important with BSG-- or at least I understand the impulse-- because not only is SF, it's based on what's largely known as pretty bad SF (the original BSG). I mean, I think it's easier to interest people in a new SF movie (which might be bad) with trustworthy creators or bankable actors than it is to stir up enthusiasm for a remake of, say, "Spacehunter 3D: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone" (which might, in fact, be good). - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 11:37:55 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Science fiction and superheroes Rex writes, > I think that the apologist stance might be more important with BSG-- or at > least I understand the impulse-- because not only is SF, it's based on what's > largely known as pretty bad SF (the original BSG). I see exactly what you are saying -- but to be clear, that's not what I meant. Saying "No, I know the old Galactica sucked, but this new one is actually great" is one thing; saying "It's so good it's not really science fiction" is another. Thanks, - --Q ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:14:24 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: EAC for OS X? Gene Hopstetter Jr. wrote: > Anybody know of a program similar to Exact Audio Copy for OS X? I'd > like to do error-free dups of CDs. Max has cdparanoia in it, which I think was the basis for EAC. Stewart (now in Ringkoebing, Denmark) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:20:51 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Science fiction and superheroes On 5/23/06, The Great Quail wrote: > > > >> Yeah, but those are a pretty impressive "big three." And I think that >> "Barry >> Lyndon" is also fantasy/horror, but that's just my opinion! Rex came trouncing back with: >Unless I'm forgetting something, "Barry Lyndon" is the only one I haven't >seen, although I remember being told in film school that he had NASA grind >him special lenses for some of the "impossible" cinematography. So if it's >not science fiction, it might at least be science... I seem to remember "Barry Lyndon" being a pioneering movie at the time as a lot of the interior night shots were lit only by candles. I take it Rex that that was what you were refering to concerning the "impossible" cinematography? Michael B. NP John Prine - John Prine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 18:39:37 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: RE: Science fiction and superheroes - -- "Bachman, Michael" is rumored to have mumbled on 23. Mai 2006 12:20:51 -0400 regarding RE: Science fiction and superheroes: > although I remember being told in film school that he had NASA grind >> him special lenses for some of the "impossible" cinematography. Correct. > I seem to remember "Barry Lyndon" being a pioneering movie at the time as > a lot of the interior night shots were lit only by candles. I take it Rex > that that was what you were refering to concerning the "impossible" > cinematography? Correct. It's possibly my favorite Kubrick movie. Either that or 2001. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 12:44:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: reap Lloyd Bentsen: Senator, Treasury Secretary, Vice-Presidential Candidate, and nemesis of Quayles if not Quails, aged 85. ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #112 ********************************