From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V15 #102 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, May 9 2006 Volume 15 : Number 102 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: reap [grutness@slingshot.co.nz] RE: Go reap ["Bachman, Michael" ] RE: Re: Crap ["matt sewell" ] Re: reap ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] invisible histrionics ["ken ostrander" ] Re: Go reap ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] re: reap [Eb ] Re: Go reap [2fs ] Re: reap ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: Go reap [Eb ] Re: Go reap ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: Go reap [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: Go reap ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Re: Go reap [2fs ] Re: Go reap ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Os Mutantes ["Marc Holden" ] ...Lots of miles from Vietnam... [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Go reap ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Go reap ["Spotted Eagle Ray" ] Mini-Review ["Stacked Crooked" ] Re: Mini-Review [Eb ] Re: Go reap [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: Go reap ["Stewart C. Russell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 22:42:40 +1200 From: grutness@slingshot.co.nz Subject: Re: reap fuck np - the first Jack Frost album - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:10:10 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Go reap >it's true http://www.go-betweens.net/ >i am seriously sad >forster always seemed priggish to me, so i was a grant man. I was fortunate to see Robert and Grant perform twice, as an acoustic duo 7 years ago and then with the reformed Go-Betweens last year in Chicago. I have great memories of meeting them both after the show. I'll never forget Grant's music, it has been a part of my life since 1988. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 15:20:46 +0100 From: "matt sewell" Subject: RE: Re: Crap UK Radio 4 listeners will have heard Mitch Benn on The Now Show doing Get Off My Cloud as "Hey! Keith! Get out of that tree! Hey! Keith! Get out of that tree - you silly old sod - you're 63!" Well it made me laugh... maybe you had to be there (listening to the radio). Cheers Matt > From: HSatterfld@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 21:07:21 -0400> Subject: Re: Crap> To: fegmaniax@smoe.org> > >From: > >> >I just realized that I forgot to tape Leno's monologue last night, to > >"rate" his Keith Richards jokes. Anyone else see it?> > Alas, there was no mention of Keith Richards in Monday night's> monologue. (Was he on vacation when the incident actually occurred?)> > Hollie _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 07:58:06 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: reap HOLY FUCK. I'm so sad. This one is going to take a LONG time to process. Grant is *not* replaceable. I'll be singing "Bye Bye Pride" at our gig tomorrow night. It was the first song I sang for my first daughter as a lullabye. "Horsebreaker Star" is indeed lovely. I'm touched by the fact that the obit says he is survived by Forster. I'm glad that they not only buried the hatchet before this happened, but did more work-- each of those reunion records got better, I think. - -Rx On 5/8/06, grutness@slingshot.co.nz wrote: > > fuck > > np - the first Jack Frost album > -- > James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand > -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- > =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. > -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- > .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 11:10:37 -0400 From: "ken ostrander" Subject: invisible histrionics delurking briefly to express my shame at not having had the desire to purchase any new hitchcock since _nextdoorland_. the sound samples and bits that i've heard have left me flat. and that's kind of strange since the music played around our home has grown increasingly mellow since the birth of our daughter [suffice to say, our little shuggie has changed our lives for the better. she digs the "rah rah" music more than her mom] more than a year ago. i have to say that i've gotten my wife to enjoy some uncle bobby by putting a couple of obscure tracks (soft boys radio version of 'if you know time' which blows the sails off of the spooky version & mysterious dj remix of 'sinister but happy' someone posted somewhere) on a mix cd with other songs that i knew she liked. for the most part, the dark and creepy tendencies makes much of his ouvre (figuratively) unpalatable for her. little by little, i can get her used to some tracks i think she'll like (like 'airscape') by downloading them onto our computer to be played randomly. a whole album is too much to expect. the live shows that i've seen have ranged from the sublime (the best being 'queen elvis' [my first show with the egyptians switching off instruments and playing mindbending solos and songs that kept me scrambling for the albums to find them], 'eye'[the first solo gig i ever saw with most of the songs from that album played...mmmm], and the 'underwater moonlight' reunion [where else could i have heard my two all-time favorites 'airscape' & 'insanely jealous' played back-to-back?] tours) to the merely shimmering samey sounding solo gigs. i'm sure that if he came to play around blacksburg, virginia, i would certainly go see him; but i can't see myself being able to make the trip to d.c. to see my upteenth solo show. the recent albums seem to resemble those solo gigs too much for me to get excited about them. that said, the hodgey podgey outtake albums of yore still resonate for me. i don't pull out 'you & oblivion' or 'invisible hitchcock' (hey, has anyone noticed that the writeup for this one on allmusic.com seems to be talking about 'invisible history'? - which is awesome by the way) out all that much anymore; but i can hear many of the songs in my head; which is nice when 'birdshead' rolls around - but not so much when it gets to 'blues in a'. ken "now how much would you pay?" the kenster np nrvradio.com (check out radio wednesday) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 08:33:15 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Go reap On 5/6/06, Christopher Hintz wrote: > > it's true > > http://www.go-betweens.net/ > > i am seriously sad > > forster always seemed priggish to me, so i was a grant man. What I loved rediscovering over and over again was that there was no way to categorize either of them. There was a tendency to think that Grant was the pop classicist and Forster the oddball iconoclast, but there are so many examples of where one played the other role, or both, or neither, or something else. Just looking at the tributes, all the quotes from Grant's lyrics that are appropriately elegiac and totally distinctive... staggering body of work. What happened? - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 12:31:06 -0700 From: Eb Subject: re: reap Scanning those tributes on the Go-Betweens board, I almost feel like there needs to be annotation...so many musicians, but so few of them have any name recognition. Bryan Harvey, Nikki Sudden, Grant McLennan...this isn't such a great year for the '80s college-rock generation. Still winding up my Scott Walker immersal. I can see how someone would think Tilt is one of the greatest albums of all time, but it's just too shapeless for me (and the vocal affectations really grate on me, moreso than the other Walker stuff I heard). The weird thing is that my favorites are turning out to be from the Walker Brothers rather than solo Scott. In particular, I'm taken by a 1967 b-side called "The Plague" which sounds just stunningly like a modern Nick Cave track. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 10:48:23 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Go reap On 5/8/06, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > > > What I loved rediscovering over and over again was that there was no way > to > categorize either of them. There was a tendency to think that Grant was > the > pop classicist and Forster the oddball iconoclast, but there are so many > examples of where one played the other role, or both, or neither, or > something else. > > Just looking at the tributes, all the quotes from Grant's lyrics that are > appropriately elegiac and totally distinctive... staggering body of work. > What happened? Do you mean, what was the cause of death? Haven't read anything further yet. But yes, about the music... I think I've mentioned that I'm afflicted with a weird ear that sometimes has trouble distinguishing singers in the same range and same band (TMBG is another example), and so I always had to listen rather closely to hear which song was whose - but still, I'd preliminarily made assumptions along the lines you mention above - yet "Cattle and Cane," maybe McLennan's best-known song, is seriously odd in musical terms (perhaps to counter the straightforward and nearly sentimental cast of the lyrics). Agreed on the reunion albums: I like them all, but Oceans Apart is the first of the three to feel like the Go-Betweens was a band again (rather than two solo songwriters working together with hired musicians). I was looking forward to what they'd do next. Damn. (Nothing much different from what I've written here, but my blog also features three Grant tracks, if anyone hasn't heard them - URL in sig as usual) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 12:51:32 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: reap On 5/8/06, Eb wrote: > > > The weird thing is that my favorites are turning out to be from the > Walker Brothers rather than solo Scott. In particular, I'm taken by a > 1967 b-side called "The Plague" which sounds just stunningly like a > modern Nick Cave track. Speaking of Nick Cave, I just heard Indie 103.1 broadcast his version of "Stagger Lee" in its profane, uncensored entirety this past Saturday morning. Pretty incredible. It was back-announced as Nick & PJ Harvey doing "HENRY Lee". Perhaps an honest error? Hee. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 13:08:10 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Go reap 2fs wrote: > "Cattle and Cane," > maybe McLennan's best-known song, is seriously odd in musical terms > (perhaps > to counter the straightforward and nearly sentimental cast of the > lyrics). Still find it kinda strange that C&C is "the" song. The lyrics aren't really anything out of the ordinary, so I guess it all comes down to the compelling quirkiness of the time changes. But this constitutes more of a proggy appeal, which seemingly doesn't have much to do with what makes the Go-Betweens appealing in general.... Or have I forgotten several other weird-time Go-Betweens songs of note? I'm not even sure how that song would be officially transcribed, but I was counting it out yesterday... the main riff is 11 beats, broken up into six + five...except there's an extra beat before the next bit...and then the middle bit is nine beats, divided into, jeez I dunno, four + five? Really odd. Anyone seen the sheet music? Eb np: Walker Brothers/"Nite Flights" (oddly similar to then- contemporary things like Ultravox and Heroes-era Bowie) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 13:08:40 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Go reap On 5/8/06, 2fs wrote: > > > But yes, about the music... I think I've mentioned that I'm afflicted > with > a weird ear that sometimes has trouble distinguishing singers in the same > range and same band (TMBG is another example), and so I always had to > listen > rather closely to hear which song was whose - but still, I'd preliminarily > made assumptions along the lines you mention above - yet "Cattle and > Cane," > maybe McLennan's best-known song, is seriously odd in musical terms > (perhaps > to counter the straightforward and nearly sentimental cast of the lyrics). Right, whereas the straighforwardly-structured "Streets" and "Pride" both have chilling damned lyrical moments ("this town is filled with battered wives", "took the shirt off his back and the eyes from his head and left him for dead")... those just off the top of my head. Yes, damn. I could usually tell Grant songs from Robert ones before the vocals came in, actually. Not to say I'm a genius at such things, just that I seemed to resonate to whatever frequency they were both responding to when writing , whereas I have the kind of trouble you describe with plenty of other bands.... Posies, Teenage Fanclub, etc. Damn damn. Meanwhile, the new Sonic Youth sounds really really good. Somewhat less adventurous than the last few but in a good way. Sonically more similar to their lat '80's peak than anything since. I'm loving it. Comfort is not always bad. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 22:56:27 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Go reap - -- Eb is rumored to have mumbled on 8. Mai 2006 13:08:10 -0700 regarding Re: Go reap: > 2fs wrote: >> "Cattle and Cane," >> maybe McLennan's best-known song, is seriously odd in musical terms >> (perhaps >> to counter the straightforward and nearly sentimental cast of the >> lyrics). > > Still find it kinda strange that C&C is "the" song. The lyrics aren't > really anything out of the ordinary, so I guess it all comes down to the > compelling quirkiness of the time changes. But this constitutes more of > a proggy appeal, which seemingly doesn't have much to do with what makes > the Go-Betweens appealing in general.... The genius part of the song is that it doesn't *feel* proggy. It's just what came naturally. I think that Grant hadn't really mastered "music" at that point. You probably know that Robert Forster taught him to play bass so they could form a band together. I don't think that someone with a formal music education would've been likely to write a song like C&C. He was unencumbered by conventional notions of how songs work. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 13:31:40 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Go reap On 5/8/06, Eb wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > "Cattle and Cane," > > maybe McLennan's best-known song, is seriously odd in musical terms > > (perhaps > > to counter the straightforward and nearly sentimental cast of the > > lyrics). > > Still find it kinda strange that C&C is "the" song. The lyrics aren't > really anything out of the ordinary, so I guess it all comes down to > the compelling quirkiness of the time changes. But this constitutes > more of a proggy appeal, which seemingly doesn't have much to do with > what makes the Go-Betweens appealing in general.... I'd say that finding odd little things like that in a non-proggy setting, be they lyrical or whatever, and the fact that they're tricky to pin down, are the root of the appeal itself in some ways. I found the Go-Betweens immensely compelling from the first time I heard them and I've always relished not knowing exactly why. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 16:33:33 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Go reap On 5/8/06, Eb wrote: > > 2fs wrote: > > "Cattle and Cane," > > maybe McLennan's best-known song, is seriously odd in musical terms > > (perhaps > > to counter the straightforward and nearly sentimental cast of the > > lyrics). > > Still find it kinda strange that C&C is "the" song. The lyrics aren't > really anything out of the ordinary, so I guess it all comes down to > the compelling quirkiness of the time changes. But this constitutes > more of a proggy appeal, which seemingly doesn't have much to do with > what makes the Go-Betweens appealing in general.... Or have I > forgotten several other weird-time Go-Betweens songs of note? Actually there are a couple other Before Hollywood tracks that play meter and phrasing games - pretty much their only record where they did that sort of thing. I wonder if most people even notice its metrical oddness - the band makes it flow, and it fits the lyrics. I'll admit that it was my favorite song from BH, which was my first or second GB album, right from the get-go. So yeah - for whatever reason... I think part of the reason a lot of people are mentioning that song in the wake of McLennan's death is that it is autobiographical. (Little Hits posted it as well - probably others) Seems apt... I'm not even sure how that song would be officially transcribed, but > I was counting it out yesterday... the main riff is 11 beats, broken > up into six + five...except there's an extra beat before the next > bit...and then the middle bit is nine beats, divided into, jeez I > dunno, four + five? Really odd. Anyone seen the sheet music? Even odder: while most of the song fits that 11-beat metrical pattern, they keep layering different parts over it that subdivide the 11 differently. Yes, rather proggy, all in all. Even in the main verse: *most* of it is divided 6+5 as you say...but the drum part is, arguably, 5+6 (if you assume Morrison's always accenting the offbeats). I doubt there *is* sheet music - I'm pretty sure songs haven't had to have written scores to be copyrighted for years. The recording itself is the "score." Since many bands don't use musical notation (no idea whether McLennan or Forster does) no score gets transcribed unless someone goes out of their way to do so. And then there's the question of accuracy: I still remember seeing a "score" of "Fool on the Hill" that rendered it in 3/4... - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 14:40:04 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Go reap On 5/8/06, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > -- Eb is rumored to have mumbled on 8. Mai 2006 > 13:08:10 -0700 regarding Re: Go reap: > > > 2fs wrote: > >> "Cattle and Cane," > >> maybe McLennan's best-known song, is seriously odd in musical terms > >> (perhaps > >> to counter the straightforward and nearly sentimental cast of the > >> lyrics). > > > > Still find it kinda strange that C&C is "the" song. The lyrics aren't > > really anything out of the ordinary, so I guess it all comes down > to the > > compelling quirkiness of the time changes. But this constitutes more of > > a proggy appeal, which seemingly doesn't have much to do with what > makes > > the Go-Betweens appealing in general.... > > The genius part of the song is that it doesn't *feel* proggy. It's just > what came naturally. I think that Grant hadn't really mastered "music" at > that point. You probably know that Robert Forster taught him to play bass > so they could form a band together. That's what I was getting at. I think it's in the liner notes to "The Lost Album" or maybe one of the next-to-last wave of reissues that the GB's compare their early stuff to the Pixies. Sounds wrong at first, but there is definitely a common ground in the instinctive, organic weirdness that Sebastian's describing above. And for my money Grant remained interesting after acquiring some "proficiency" in a way that Frank Black Francis didn't, but I know not everyone agrees on that one. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 12:34:30 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: Os Mutantes I just got around to looking over a stack of handbills that someone handed me as I left the Coachella festival last weekend. On the back of one for Belle & Sebastian with the Shins at the Hollywood Bowl, there's a listing for the Flaming Lips/Thievery Corporation/Os Mutantes on July 23rd at the Bowl. I looked it up and found that two of the three original members (brothers Sergio and Arnaldo) will be in the current line-up. Rita Lee will not be in the reformed line-up, but she had left the band (fired?) about six years before they packed it in, in 1978. Looks like they have shows in London and Chicago scheduled as well. I might has to put a serious effort into driving out for that one. I'd really hate to regret it later, Marc btw--to keep it Robyn related, at the festival, I ran into Robyn's friend and former manager, Rick Gershon, a couple of times--during Sleater-Kinney and before the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. I see him at more shows, is he ever not at a concert? I'm learning to speak Cuban. It's like Spanish, but with fewer words for luxury items. Emo Phillips ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 14:51:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: ...Lots of miles from Vietnam... Conan is rerunning the Finland special tonight, for those of you who might have missed it. "A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer." -- Mitch Hedberg . Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 19:16:59 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Go reap Any recommendations, then, for someone who has never knowingly heard The Go-Betweens? cheers, Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 16:58:36 -0700 From: "Spotted Eagle Ray" Subject: Re: Go reap On 5/8/06, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Any recommendations, then, for someone who has never knowingly heard The > Go-Betweens? Ouch... tricky. Not an unworthy disc in the catalog. Of course you'd want to start with their first run in the '80's, although the recent records are really completely up to that standard, especially taken as a whole. The out-of-print Best-Of got me hooked, but at a guess, while I remember thinking the track list wasn't quite as strong on the "current" compilation BELLAVISTA TERRACE, it's probably fine. Then again, the original albums have been reissued TWICE in recent years, so used copies of those, especially in their first pressing, might be easy to find? Of the original five LP's, my favorite by a slim margin is LIBERTY BELLE & THE BLACK DIAMOND EXPRESS. - -Rx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 19:05:56 -0700 From: "Stacked Crooked" Subject: Mini-Review Drive-By Truckers, *A Blessing And A Curse*: how can a band kick so much ass onstage, and suck so much ass in the studio? also, *10,000 Days* re-considered: it (much like its predecessor) kicks several hundred kinds of ass if listened to through headphones and/or at maximum volume. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 20:11:39 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Mini-Review Stacked Crooked wrote: > Drive-By Truckers, *A Blessing And A Curse*: how can a band kick so > much > ass onstage, and suck so much ass in the studio? > > also, *10,000 Days* re-considered: it (much like its predecessor) > kicks > several hundred kinds of ass if listened to through headphones and/ > or at > maximum volume. Clearly, someone needs to invent you some "assphones." Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 09:49:41 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Go reap - --On 8. Mai 2006 16:58:36 -0700 Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > Of the original five LP's, my favorite by a slim margin is LIBERTY BELLE & > THE BLACK DIAMOND EXPRESS. Seconded. Of course the most accessible one is "16 Lovers Lane". I didn't like the production at the time but have since come to accept it. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 06:47:13 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Go reap Thanks Sebastian, Rex and (offlist) Jeff. allofmp3 has Oceans Apart, which I'm sampling right now. cheers, Stewart ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V15 #102 ********************************