From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #288 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, December 13 2005 Volume 14 : Number 288 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: favorites of 2005 [2and2makes5@comcast.net] and another one [James Dignan ] RE: Fave CDs of 2005 ["Bachman, Michael" ] songwriting and TMI [Dolph Chaney ] RE: i've always been a religious man ["Bachman, Michael" ] Best of 2005 so far... ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: songwriting and TMI [Steve Schiavo ] Re: songwriting and TMI (topic detour) [Spotted Eagle Ray > I love there lists - you guys have the best music. but no one > mentioned my favorite: > > Rogue Wave - Descended Like Vultures > > not as good as the first album out in 2003, but still very good. on > SubPop. > > eleanore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:37:33 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: and another one >Richard Pryor :( > >Also: Eugene McCarthy. ...and Robert Sheckley. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:43:20 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Fave CDs of 2005 On 12/7/05, Dolph Chaney wrote: > >>(2) I though great (although I think it's an '04 release)... what didn't you > >>like? I've been lukewarm on Neil Finn's recent stuff and thought this was a > >lot more immediate. Smoother, sure, but not tastelessly so. > >> Intimate? Yes. Well-crafted? Unquestionably. I'm always ready to hear a >> Neil Finn record. But what made the first Finn Brothers album and Neil's >> Try Whistling This stand out for me was a sense of adventure, both >> s>onically and lyrically, that I hadn't seen there since Conflicting >> Emotions. Here, there's none of that -- just Neil and Time singing about >> how important family is. They've had a hell of a time personally, with >> family members and close friends dying, and I understand as well as anyone >> how important it is to reflect that in one's work. The results just >> weren't compelling for me. Jeff Norman >Some of us on another list were discussing something similar recently. >While it may be important for an artist to express personal issues in >their music, that doesn't make it compelling for the general public. >Maybe these artists should record intimate, small-scale recordings if >their personal issues need to be worked over artistically - but if the >results are otherwise bland or melodramatic, save the recordings >either for distribution amongst one's friends and family, or offer >them to insane-maniac fans only. The public releases should be >imaginative and creative. >Problem is, there's a whole school of thought that argues if >something's emotionally heartfelt, that all by itself makes it worthy. >And that's bullshit: even if I might be moved by the lyrics or the >situation, if the music puts me to sleep, it's a lame recording >regardless of its emotional validity or necessity to the recording >artist. Aimee Mann tends to fall into this trap. Everything's Different Now and Whatever were deeply personnel, but had some variety to overcome some of the sameness of the music. Subsequent records of hers have been somewhat less successful at doing this, notably Lost In Space from a couple of years. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:53:18 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: RE: Fave CDs of 2005 - --On 12. Dezember 2005 08:43:20 -0500 "Bachman, Michael" wrote: >> Problem is, there's a whole school of thought that argues if >> something's emotionally heartfelt, that all by itself makes it worthy. >> And that's bullshit: even if I might be moved by the lyrics or the >> situation, if the music puts me to sleep, it's a lame recording >> regardless of its emotional validity or necessity to the recording >> artist. > > Aimee Mann tends to fall into this trap. Everything's Different Now and > Whatever were deeply personnel, but had some variety to overcome some of > the sameness of the music. Subsequent records of hers have been somewhat > less successful at doing this, notably Lost In Space from a couple of > years. I've read similar criticism on AMG, but I don't agree. It's true that there isn't much variation in her music, but apparently there doesn't have to be. I can't quite put my finger on it, but for whatever reason Aimee Mann records are something I never get tired of. Often when I'm not sure what to listen to, I turn to Aimee Mann. Somehow I feel at home there. The music certainly has a soothing effect on me. You could even call it therapeutic. I can see that that's not what everybody is looking for in music, but it sure works for me ;-) - -- Sebastian Hagedorn http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:13:17 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: songwriting and TMI Probably I am the most "confessional" of the songwriters on Feg (the ones I've heard, anyway), and I can say it's a difficult line to walk. Mark Eitzel once said that the most important quality in a songwriter is emotional honesty, and I think that's the key thing. If you're a happy-go-lucky sort whose emotions are upbeat and uncomplicated, writing that to the extreme is the way to go -- you end up with, for example, "My Girl" or "Walking On Sunshine," songs which succeed in connecting millions of people to their own joy. If you are laconically, slyly witty with tendencies toward depression, you might write several albums mining that, as Aimee Mann has done. Songwriters have limitless choice of mood and subject matter, but few songwriters would be able to write great songs with a vast variety of moods or subjects. Most of us are lucky if we can nail one once in our lives -- think of the many greats who spend their careers in basically the same emotional territory. Why is that? Because people don't change that much. The standard should therefore be not just that the emotion is heartfelt, but also how well the emotion was captured and communicated. That is where you'll see the variation in effect between albums by the same artist. It gets really tricky the deeper one goes, because it's easy to fall into in-jokes and references that will only be understood by a smaller and smaller circle of people, til it's down to just yourself. Only a few can go that deep and still hit something universal enough that it connects -- and that is the gold mine for the confessional songwriter. I say all that because Sebastian's point illustrates it. If a songwriter is true enough to the emotions, the songs will resonate with someone. That might be success. - -- Dolph At 07:53 AM 12/12/2005, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: >--On 12. Dezember 2005 08:43:20 -0500 "Bachman, Michael" > wrote: > >>>Problem is, there's a whole school of thought that argues if >>>something's emotionally heartfelt, that all by itself makes it worthy. >>>And that's bullshit: even if I might be moved by the lyrics or the >>>situation, if the music puts me to sleep, it's a lame recording >>>regardless of its emotional validity or necessity to the recording >>>artist. >> >>Aimee Mann tends to fall into this trap. Everything's Different Now and >>Whatever were deeply personnel, but had some variety to overcome some of >>the sameness of the music. Subsequent records of hers have been somewhat >>less successful at doing this, notably Lost In Space from a couple of >>years. > >I've read similar criticism on AMG, but I don't agree. It's true that >there isn't much variation in her music, but apparently there doesn't have >to be. I can't quite put my finger on it, but for whatever reason Aimee >Mann records are something I never get tired of. Often when I'm not sure >what to listen to, I turn to Aimee Mann. Somehow I feel at home there. The >music certainly has a soothing effect on me. You could even call it >therapeutic. I can see that that's not what everybody is looking for in >music, but it sure works for me ;-) >-- >Sebastian Hagedorn >http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:22:40 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: i've always been a religious man >howdy, >in honor of criterion's announcement that it will release *Metropolitan*, >i've uploaded the out-of-print DVD of *Last Days Of Disco* to >alt.binaries.dvdr. >a terribly unsung movie, in my opinion. Wow, that's some great news. My VHS copy of *Metropolitan* is pretty rough. Our sadly missed Kay was acquainted with Whit Stillman, the writer, director and producer of *Metropolitan*, *Barcelona* and *Last Days Of Disco*. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:28:12 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: songwriting and TMI On 12/12/05, Dolph Chaney wrote: > Probably I am the most "confessional" of the songwriters on Feg (the ones > I've heard, anyway), and I can say it's a difficult line to walk. Mark > Eitzel once said that the most important quality in a songwriter is > emotional honesty, and I think that's the key thing. Well, that can be true - but obviously it's not the whole truth, or there'd be no need for music! Eitzel's music as such doesn't get talked about as much as his lyrics or even his singing (both excellent), but for me what really makes his stuff work (both solo and AMC) is not only those qualities but the fact that musically it's very intriguing as well. He uses a lot of altered chords - I suspect open tunings, but I'm not such a guitar nut as to be sure; at any rate, his voicings are fairly unusual and almost jazzlike at times. And he's also displayed a pretty wide range of textures sonically - so it's not just one mopey guy with an acoustic guitar. (Eitzel, though, is talented enough to pull even that off - a few weeks back, when someone mentioned "most heartfelt songs," there's a track from his solo live album that's nearly a cappella that just rips my heart to shreds every time.) If you're a > happy-go-lucky sort whose emotions are upbeat and uncomplicated, writing > that to the extreme is the way to go -- you end up with, for example, "My > Girl" or "Walking On Sunshine," songs which succeed in connecting millions > of people to their own joy. If you are laconically, slyly witty with > tendencies toward depression, you might write several albums mining that, > as Aimee Mann has done. > > Songwriters have limitless choice of mood and subject matter, but few > songwriters would be able to write great songs with a vast variety of moods > or subjects. Most of us are lucky if we can nail one once in our lives -- > think of the many greats who spend their careers in basically the same > emotional territory. Why is that? Because people don't change that much. > > The standard should therefore be not just that the emotion is heartfelt, > but also how well the emotion was captured and communicated. That is where > you'll see the variation in effect between albums by the same artist. It > gets really tricky the deeper one goes, because it's easy to fall into > in-jokes and references that will only be understood by a smaller and > smaller circle of people, til it's down to just yourself. Only a few can > go that deep and still hit something universal enough that it connects -- > and that is the gold mine for the confessional songwriter. I think the real problem is certain assumptions about what musical settings best capture "heartfelt emotions." Sorry for the quotes - but when the music defaults to a cliched notion of what emotional honesty *sounds* like, it calls that very honesty into question. Who says acoustic instruments are more "honest" than electric in conveying (broad brush here) sadness? Who says slow or midtempo is more "honest" in same? I was reading an analysis of some of George Harrison's songs recently, and the writer made an interesting point about "Long, Long, Long." He said that given the quietness of the song, and its sense of exhausted acceptance and redemption after much struggle, one might expect a quiet, restrained drum part to go with the quiet restrained organ and acoustic guitar. Instead, although only in a few places, Ringo pounds hell out of the drums - and makes the track a hundred times more powerful than it would be with a more conventional approach to "here's the quiet song: what shall the drums do?" The problem I have with (say) the latest few Aimee Mann albums is that she's lost her sense of both texture and tempo, so the detail of whatever bummer she's writing about gets lost in sameness, whereas on her earlier albums it was rendered more specifically in each song because of those songs' greater variety. I'm also not a hundred percent sold on the very notion of heartfelt songwriting. Yes, one tries to get to whatever emotional place the song came from during its performance and recording - but a lot of the skill of the artist is making it *sound* that way on take 53 and on the 700th performance, all while focusing on a lot of other things (was that bass in tune? etc.). But that skill in performing also means the ability to put across emotions other than those actually being felt - i.e., writing in character, or even having a whole shtick one uses. I think a songwriter and a perfomer needs to feel *something* - but not necessarily what's in front of you as listener. - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:00:02 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: Best of 2005 so far... Here is my first pass. 1. Caitlin Cary & Thad Cockrell - Begonias (Gram and EmmyLou style hamonizing bliss!) 2. Sufjan Stevens - Come On Feel The Illinoise 3. Ed Harcourt - Strangers 4. The New Pornographers - Twin Cinema 5. Laura Cantrell - Humming By The Flowered Vine 6. Kate Rusby - The Girl Who Couldn't Fly 7. Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall 8. The Decemberists - Picaresque 9. The Go-Betweens - Oceans Apart 10. John Coltrane Quartet - One Down,One Up: Live at The Half Note 11. Beck - Guero 12. Kate Bush - Aerial Hmmm.... I have yet to get a couple in the mail that I ordered, Marshmallow, Fiona Apple as well as ordering the new Neil Young, Spoon, Laura Veirs adnd a few others. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:04:47 -0500 From: wojizzle forizzle Subject: Re: NEW on DIME: Robyn Hitchcock - 2005-03-26 - Maxwell's Hoboken, NJ (cmc2/Minidisc AUD master) one time at band camp, wojizzle forizzle (woj@smoe.org) said: >A new torrent has been uploaded to DIME. > >Torrent: 72397 >Title: Robyn Hitchcock - 2005-03-26 - Maxwell's Hoboken, NJ (cmc2/Minidisc AUD master) >Size: 574.41 MB >Category: Singer/Songwriter >Uploaded by: woj thought fegs might like to know that this show is now available on the live music archive as well at: http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=31660 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:23:27 -0800 From: Spotted Eagle Ray Subject: Re: songwriting and TMI (topic detour) > > wrote: > > > >>>Problem is, there's a whole school of thought that argues if > >>>something's emotionally heartfelt, that all by itself makes it worthy. > >>>And that's bullshit: even if I might be moved by the lyrics or the > >>>situation, if the music puts me to sleep, it's a lame recording > >>>regardless of its emotional validity or necessity to the recording > >>>artist. Sort of related: I'm listening to a live radio set right now: Mark Garndener, ex-Ride, and band. Anyone have anything good to say about his new album? From what I can tell, it sounds like recycled Thrills, who are are recycled enough to not interest me greatly to begin with. After a set of songs with pretty bland lyrics about learning to live and love again-- what *are* you trying to say, Mark?-- the band did a heavily CSNY-inflected version of "Dreams Burn Down". Sigh. I know I should have long ago accepted that the entirety of Ride's legacy would be one really great album and a few attendant EP's, and then a never-ending riches of embarrassment. That version of "Dreams Burn Down" really brought it home. That... is not necessarily a well-written song... the only thing it really has over Gardener's new stuff is that it's about yearning, which is more compelling than contentment (per James Dignan), but that's no help when the performance sounds like-- and sadly this is the song that's now lodged in my head instead of even the worst Ride song ever-- "Rain In The Summertime" by the Alarm. 'Course a lotta people think Ride was crap from beginning to end, and lyrically that's likely true, but early on that emotional intensity seemed to be totally carried in the sound. And you probably had to be the right age and in the right frame of mind to get really swept up in it. Oh, well. Some 2005 releases on deck for first listens: Fiery Furnaces With Their Grandma, and the Fall (with some guy who looks like your rock and roll Grandpa). Reluctantly left behind The Go! Team at the record store last night, along with some Giant Sand and Tim Finn records I don't often see used, the holiday budget crunch being what it is. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:38:15 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: songwriting and TMI (topic detour) n 12/12/05, Spotted Eagle Ray wrote: > Some 2005 releases on deck for first listens: Fiery Furnaces With Their > Grandma, and the Fall (with some guy who looks like your rock and roll > Grandpa). That Fall album...perverse as usual. It opens with what I believe is a fine contender for "most boring Fall song ever" - then follows that with two tracks that aren't that great but do share almost exactly the same riff. After that it gets pretty good, in fact. But first impressions are...not so. Haven't heard the Fiery Furnaces Multigenerational Family Band album yet - although I did just pick up their amusingly-titled _EP_ release (speaking just of which...). I say "amusingly" because it's ten tracks and 41 minutes long - pretty much an album in everything except the fact that it's called "EP." I hereby exempt it from my usual "does not include EPs or live albums" in compiling my year-end best-of. ('Course it is a compilation, also usually not included...) - -- ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:18:00 -0600 From: Steve Schiavo Subject: Re: songwriting and TMI On Dec 12, 2005, at 10:28 AM, 2fs wrote: > The problem I have with (say) the latest few Aimee Mann albums is that > she's lost her sense of both texture and tempo, so the detail of > whatever bummer she's writing about gets lost in sameness, whereas on > her earlier albums it was rendered more specifically in each song > because of those songs' greater variety. Could it be that she's missing a certain producer? - - Steve __________ What the Republicans need is 50 Jack Abramoffs. Then this becomes a different town. - Grover Norquist (National Journal, July 29,1995). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:35:58 -0800 From: Spotted Eagle Ray Subject: Re: songwriting and TMI (topic detour) On 12/12/05, 2fs wrote: > > > I;'ve heard a track or two from the album - their grandmother sounds > as if she should be one of those old women with a mustache that you > see carting wood up the Eastern European steppes... The first time I heard the opening track on the radio, I was all, "Tha fuck? KCRW's playing Eugene Chadbourne?" I had forgotten that that song was the Fiery Furnaces until I popped the disc in... I still hear the Grandma's voices as male... and acid-damaged... - -Rex ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #288 ********************************