From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #254 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, October 30 2005 Volume 14 : Number 254 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #252 [Michael R Godwin ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #253 [Michael R Godwin ] Re: hyperpedantiarianism [Aaron Mandel ] Re: hyperpedantiarianism [FSThomas ] Nigel/Donovan/Pedantic plurals [James Dignan ] Re: hyperpedantiarianism [Jeff Norman ] Re: Nigel/Donovan/Pedantic plurals [Eb ] Re: Nigel/Donovan/Pedantic plurals [Carrie Galbraith ] SCAN-TRON ["Hurricane Jesus" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:28:48 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #252 > Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:25:35 +1300 > From: James Dignan > Subject: Re: Etaion shrd > > >PS I have a feeling that the printers' fonts used to have ETAION SHRDLU as > >the first 2 lines - any relation to those most commonly used letters? If > >so, "L" only just missed it by one letter! > > They did - they are the twelve commonest letters in English. Printers > used to simply run their hands over the keys for test pieces and to > indicate things not for publication, so the term "Etaion shrdlu" is > fairly wll known in publishing. The term's been used in a fair amount > of published work, too, including some spoof shaggy-dog science > fiction (IIRC by Grendel Briarton, an anagrammatical pseudonym of > Reginald "please don't call me Reg" Bretnor) > > James > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:11:07 -0500 > From: Jeff Norman > Subject: Re: Etaion shrd > > On 10/27/05, James Dignan wrote: > > >PS I have a feeling that the printers' fonts used to have ETAION SHRDLU as > > >the first 2 lines - any relation to those most commonly used letters? If > > >so, "L" only just missed it by one letter! > > > Thomas Pynchon named a character "Etienne Shrdlu" in an early short > story (it's in the _Slow Learner_ collection - am too lazy to check > details, but if that Enormous Bird character is still around, he > probably knows anyway.) Excellent - I knew I could trust you guys for maximum trivia! Has anyone come across Ed Harcourt(?). He sounded really good on the radio a couple of nights ago. - - Mike Godwin n.p. Davy Graham "Hallelujah I just love her so" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:56:58 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #253 On Sat, 29 Oct 2005, fegmaniax-digest wrote: God! Pressed Steel Fisher! That brings back memories of the 70s, strike-bound BMC plants in Longbridge and Cowley, and the recent televisation of "The Rotters' Club" (much better than the book, incidentally). Basically Pressed Steel Fisher was part of the massive Austin/Morris/Rover/Land Rover/Wolseley/Standard Triumph/Leyland/Jaguar conglomerate that owned most of the least successful motor companies in the UK. I have never heard it called Pressed Steel before, but presumably there was an amalgamation between Fisher and PS at some stage in the 60s. The govt. kept pumping more taxpayers' cash into BMC, later British Leyland on the grounds that allowing it to fail would cause mass unemployment in the West Midlands. Of course they were right, as Margaret Thatcher demonstrated. Appallingly, the dregs of the conglomerate, now recast as Rover-MG, are still about to go bust. The "profitable" elements such as Jaguar and Land Rover were sold off to Ford at some stage. I'm sure that there must be a depressing book or several about this! Donovan recommendations, with favourite songs: Sunshine Superman (Season of the Witch OR Three Kingfishers OR title song) Fairytale (Jersey Thursday OR Sunny Goodge Street OR most of the other songs) Mellow Yellow (Hampstead Incident OR Young Girl Blues OR Writer in the Sun)) Gift (but very variable, Isle of Islay is my favourite Don ditty of all) Open Road (Rikki-Tikki-Tavi) Hurdy Gurdy Man (Title song OR Jennifer Juniper) Barabajagal (Trudi OR title song) See for details He may not have had an interesting life since 1970, but what a time he had in the sixties! - - Mike "Good morning Mr Leitch" Godwin n.p. Peregrine, Donovan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:32:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: hyperpedantiarianism On Sat, 29 Oct 2005, Jeff Norman wrote: > I would never use or insist on "CDs-ROM" (then again, I don't need to > refer to them very often) but James' logic is sound. The object is a > "disc"; all the other words work adjectivally to modify "disc"; > therefore the plural of the "thing" would be "discs." Thus, I suppose, > pluralizing the abbreviation yields "CDs-ROM." I'd argue against > "CDs-ROM" on the grounds that the abbreviation has become its own noun, > so to speak, independent of its origins as an abbreviation. I don't think this is right at all. "ROM" was already a word when "CD-ROM" was coined-- sure, it stood for "read-only memory", but it had become a word. A "CD-ROM" is a type of ROM, just like a wolf-boy is a type of boy. It's pluralized normally; there's no reason for it not to be. One problem with this view is that I don't remember people saying "ROMs" until recently. So you could argue that if my little dance in the previous paragraph is accurate, and you want to be a prescriptivist about it, the only right way to use "CD-ROM" is as a mass noun, like "knowledge". That would sound awful to my ear, but so does "CDs-ROM". But while this is all very entertaining to those of us who are entertained by it, is anyone seriously proposing that the usage that has existed ever since the word was coined could be 'wrong'? a ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 16:32:10 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: hyperpedantiarianism Aaron Mandel wrote: > But while this is all very entertaining to those of us who are > entertained by it, is anyone seriously proposing that the usage that has > existed ever since the word was coined could be 'wrong'? The whole argument could be rendered moot if y'all just called them CDs, ditching the ROM part. Ferris "Canada Geese" Thomas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:23:33 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Nigel/Donovan/Pedantic plurals >James Dignan wrote: >> >> In other words, he has his future mapped out in the >> world of big corporations and takeover bids. > >Was the UK so takeover-crazed back then? I place that as an 80s-90s >thing. Andy ain't no Nostradamus. good point (though I think you mean Colin) >Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:01:36 -0700 >From: Eb >Subject: Re: Donovan VS Iggy > >I always half-wonder if I need something more by Donovan. I have the >cutout-bin staple "Donovan's Greatest Hits," plus the Sunshine >Superman album. Is there essential stuff beyond that? depends whether you mean the double LP (with 27 tracks or thereabouts) or the CD (which macheted it down appallingly to about a dozen). You don't need any more than are on the double LP. Since I'm guessing you have the CD, and you have Mellow yellow, I'd say that three albums cover everything else that's worth having of Donovan - all of them fairly readily available at cut-out prices: Barabajagal, Sunshine Superman, and Hurdy Gurdy Man. > > can I steal your pedant's crown by saying that I tend to annoy people by >> using the plural form CDs-ROM? > >What's the rationale behind that? I understand why it's surgeons general >etc., but that's because the second part is actually an adjective, right? I >don't think CD-ROM works the same way. Spelled out it comes to "compact >disc read-only memory". So shouldn't the plural be "compact disc read-only >memories"? The noun is disc. Everything else is added padding. So disc gets the pluralisation (as Jeff said) James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:58:07 -0500 From: Jeff Norman Subject: Re: hyperpedantiarianism On 10/29/05, FSThomas wrote: > Aaron Mandel wrote: > > > But while this is all very entertaining to those of us who are > > entertained by it, is anyone seriously proposing that the usage that has > > existed ever since the word was coined could be 'wrong'? > > The whole argument could be rendered moot if y'all just called them CDs, > ditching the ROM part. Or just "thingies." ...Jeff Norman The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:00:51 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Nigel/Donovan/Pedantic plurals >> I always half-wonder if I need something more by Donovan. I have >> the cutout-bin staple "Donovan's Greatest Hits," plus the Sunshine >> Superman album. Is there essential stuff beyond that? > > depends whether you mean the double LP (with 27 tracks or > thereabouts) or the CD (which macheted it down appallingly to about > a dozen). You don't need any more than are on the double LP. Since > I'm guessing you have the CD, and you have Mellow yellow, I'd say > that three albums cover everything else that's worth having of > Donovan - all of them fairly readily available at cut-out prices: > Barabajagal, Sunshine Superman, and Hurdy Gurdy Man. Uh...double LP? Huh? I think you may be confused, and thinking of A Gift from a Flower to a Garden instead. I have both albums on vinyl: Sunshine Superman 1. Sunshine Superman 2. Legend of a Girl Called Linda 3. Three King Fishers 4. Ferris Wheel 5. Berts Blues 6. Season of the Witch 7. The Trip 8. Guinevere 9. The Fat Angel 10. Celeste Greatest Hits 1. Epistle to Dippy 2. Sunshine Superman 3. There Is a Mountain 4. Jennifer Juniper 5. Wear Your Love Like Heaven 6. Season of the Witch 7. Mellow Yellow 8. Colours 9. Hurdy Gurdy Man 10. Catch the Wind 11. Lalena E b ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:08:20 +0000 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Re: Nigel/Donovan/Pedantic plurals On 30.10.2005, at 01:00, Eb wrote: > Uh...double LP? Huh? I think you may be confused, and thinking of A > Gift from a Flower to a Garden instead. > I told you all before that Donovan was my first concert at the tender age of 10 (at the Hollywood Bowl no less!). I still have most of his stuff on vinyl. My faves always were: Fairy Tale and A Gift From A Flower To A Garden with it's lovely mix of songs. My brother's oldest daughter still thinks of Donovan as music-you-play-to-kids-to-get-them-to-stop-crying-and-go-to-sleep. I recommend either of the two above or Sunshine Superman. Barabajagal never really cut it for me. - - carrie, who is going to Scotland for the first time tomorrow evening but only staying 1 day in Dundee, the carriester ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:19:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Robyn tunings help On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 rosso@videotron.ca wrote: > Robyn says he never messed with alternate tunings until Moss Elixir. > Not to say you couldn't work out nice-sounding versions with other > tunings. Well, I'm certain that Birdshead uses the same tuning as Heliotrope. Just listen to the opening strum. - - Mike Godwin, another great posting from 2002! n.p. Davy Graham, She moved through the bizarre ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:40:27 -0800 From: "Hurricane Jesus" Subject: SCAN-TRON I WANTED TO ASK EB A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. EB WAS RUNNING TOWARDS ME. EB'S ARMS WERE FLAILING ABOUT WILDLY. EB WAS TRYING TO REACH THE CURB BEFORE EB'S BOOTY WAS SQUISHED BY THE FAST APPROACHING TRAFFIC. EB AND MYSELF BOTH NOTICED CELESTE PADDLING UP THE RIVER IN A SMALL CRAFT. EB WAS SURPRISED TO NOTICE CELESTE. WHEN EB REACHED THE CURB JUST IN THE NICK OF TIME, EB BREATHED A DRAMATIC SIGH OF RELIEF. EB HAD MANAGED TO AVOID EB'S BOOTY BEING SQUISHED BY THE FAST APPROACHING TRAFFIC. EB ROLLED A CIGARETTE AND LIT THE CIGARETTE WITH EB'S LIGHTER. EB WINKED AT ME. EB'S ARMS HAD STOPPED FLAILING ABOUT WILDLY, BUT EB'S TORSO WAS STILL FLAILING. EB SMILED AT ME. EB NOTICED THAT CELESTE HAD DISAPPEARED. EB STRIPPED OFF ALL OF EB'S CLOTHES, EXCEPT FOR EB'S SHOES. EB'S JOHNSON WAS FLAILING ABOUT WILDLY. EB TOOK OFF RUNNING DOWN THE EMBANKMENT, AND THEN EB JUMPED INTO THE ICE-COLD RIVER. EB'S BOOTY WAS VISIBLY SUFFERING. BUT WHERE WAS CELESTE? From the above clues, you should, if you were paying close enough attention, be able to determine the simple question that the narrator wanted to ask to Eb. Can you discern the question? The correct answer follows below: ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ The question was, "Would you prefer sugar on your Grape Nuts?" ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #254 ********************************