From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #202 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, August 21 2005 Volume 14 : Number 202 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: The new beginning. [Capuchin ] Re: The new beginning. [Capuchin ] Re: The new beginning. [Eb ] Re: The new beginning. [Capuchin ] Re: The new beginning. [Jeff ] Feels like 1974-7 [James Dignan ] Re: Feels like 1974-7 [Eb ] Re: Feels like 1974-7 [Capuchin ] RE: Feels like 1974-7 ["Brian Huddell" ] RE: Driving Aloud Mixes ["Brian Nupp" ] RE: Feels like 1974-7 ["Brian Huddell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:27:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: The new beginning. On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Dolph Chaney wrote: > At 09:55 PM 8/19/2005, Capuchin wrote: >> Anybody have any good suggestions for music from the start of this >> modern age, 1974-1977? > > My first thought is to get some early Pere Ubu -- TERMINAL TOWER, THE > MODERN DANCE, or DUB HOUSING would each be a mighty fine way to start. This sounds like a great suggestion. Their bit in Urgh! always made me think I should dig deeper. Thanks, Dolph. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:31:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: The new beginning. On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > Eb wrote: >> Databasin' for some good 1974-1977 albums which are >> neither Dylan nor "New York scene protopunks": >> > [snip] >> Richard Hell & the Voidoids Blank Generation 1977 > > In what way is this not "New York scene protopunks?" In a way, you're both right. Jeff's probably right about what it is and Eb was right to suggest it because it's not on my radar. Luck, I guess. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:40:30 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: The new beginning. >> Badfinger Badfinger 1974 >> Badfinger Wish You Were Here 1974 >> Mott the Hoople The Hoople 1974 > > Um, I've (perhaps unfairly) lumped these mentally into a category > of, err, wankery. Don't really see how the above three fit that classification. Actually, there were several in your subsequent "don't know, don't care about" list which are far "wankier." > All of Bowie's work comes off, to me, as arrogant and pretentiously > flamboyant. Yes, I can see how those traits would grate on you. > I have "Original Musiquarium Volume I" and I think it's all the > Stevie I need. Besides the well-known tracks, is there a real gem > on here that I'm missing or is there a cohesiveness or overall > thematic synergy that comes from the album as a piece? Yes. >> *Bruce Springsteen Born to Run 1975 > > Everyone told me to get Nebraska a few years back and I have to say > that I've only played it twice. The mood of the record isn't one > that jives well with the moods I'm in when I want to listen to > music. Also, the "soulful" quality of his voice and guitar are > annoying. While some people consider that quality "emotional" and > "spontaneous", I find it sloppy and self-absorbed. If you want to > illicit an emotional response, do it with a deliberate arrangement; > include it in the very structure of the song. Just showing the > emotion is vulgar, weak, and insulting. I pretty much expected a response along these lines. Jeff: > Richard Hell & the Voidoids Blank Generation 1977 >In what way is this not "New York scene protopunks?" >:) Oops...mea culpa. OK, substitute Rocket to Russia instead. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:09:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: The new beginning. On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Eb wrote: >>> Badfinger Badfinger 1974 >>> Badfinger Wish You Were Here 1974 >>> Mott the Hoople The Hoople 1974 >> >> Um, I've (perhaps unfairly) lumped these mentally into a category of, err, >> wankery. > > Don't really see how the above three fit that classification. Actually, > there were several in your subsequent "don't know, don't care about" > list which are far "wankier." Cool. I'm actually glad you pulled these three out because I was quite suspect of my own prejudice there. I'll look into them. I don't think my "don't know" list was also a "don't care" list. There are things on there that have a vague sort of interest, but I just don't know enough to be compelled. I'll let you know if I get any of them. >> I have "Original Musiquarium Volume I" and I think it's all the Stevie >> I need. Besides the well-known tracks, is there a real gem on here >> that I'm missing or is there a cohesiveness or overall thematic synergy >> that comes from the album as a piece? > > Yes. Cool. I will check it out, then. Of all of his albums, that's probably the one that has piqued my interest most often. >>> *Bruce Springsteen Born to Run 1975 >> >> Everyone told me to get Nebraska a few years back and I have to say >> that I've only played it twice. The mood of the record isn't one that >> jives well with the moods I'm in when I want to listen to music. >> Also, the "soulful" quality of his voice and guitar are annoying. >> While some people consider that quality "emotional" and "spontaneous", >> I find it sloppy and self-absorbed. If you want to illicit an >> emotional response, do it with a deliberate arrangement; include it in >> the very structure of the song. Just showing the emotion is vulgar, >> weak, and insulting. > > I pretty much expected a response along these lines. Um, so is Born To Run more of the same? I have to get some sleep. Tomorrow morning is the Portland Adult Soapbox Derby! Woohoo! You just must look at the gallery. [Oh, an online search for "adult soapbox derby" turned up an article on our fair event that included the assertion that Diamanda Galas once said that Portland contained more freaks per capita than anywhere in the world. Y'all think that's true? I mean to ask you y'all think she said that. I already know it's true.] J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:10:51 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: The new beginning. On 8/20/05, Capuchin wrote: > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005, Eb wrote: > >>> Badfinger Badfinger 1974 > >>> Badfinger Wish You Were Here 1974 > >>> Mott the Hoople The Hoople 1974 > >> > >> Um, I've (perhaps unfairly) lumped these mentally into a category of, err, > >> wankery. > > > > Don't really see how the above three fit that classification. Actually, > > there were several in your subsequent "don't know, don't care about" > > list which are far "wankier." > > Cool. I'm actually glad you pulled these three out because I was quite > suspect of my own prejudice there. I'll look into them. I would have removed the same three from the same list. > >>> *Bruce Springsteen Born to Run 1975 > >> > >> Everyone told me to get Nebraska a few years back and I have to say > >> that I've only played it twice. The mood of the record isn't one that > >> jives well with the moods I'm in when I want to listen to music. > >> Also, the "soulful" quality of his voice and guitar are annoying. > >> While some people consider that quality "emotional" and "spontaneous", > >> I find it sloppy and self-absorbed. If you want to illicit an > >> emotional response, do it with a deliberate arrangement; include it in > >> the very structure of the song. Just showing the emotion is vulgar, > >> weak, and insulting. > > > > I pretty much expected a response along these lines. > > Um, so is Born To Run more of the same? Quick answer: no. Longer answer: The arrangements are far more "deliberate" and tend to elicit "emotional response" via the "very structure of the song," I think. (There are big, Spectorian arrangements and sometimes complex, architectural developments.) On the other hand, if "just showing the emotion" bugs you (and I'm not sure what you mean, since you also dismissed Bowie as often "cold") you might not like this, since Springsteen is nothing if not emotional. The CD is probably available in any library; it's an undisputed classic; you should hear it at least once. If you hate it, you hate it. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:25:48 +1200 From: James Dignan Subject: Feels like 1974-7 Eb wrote: > James Dignan wrote: > > but taken as a whole, the 80s production values and sound >> aesthetics builds up to the point where listening through the whole >> album in one sitting is wearying. > >Your Hunters & Collectors and Church albums say "hi." ;) Y'know, it's funny how you get tetchy when people think you're always talking about running, which you do rarely... whereas you seem to have this Church fixation with me. I decided to check when I last had a message in Fegmaniax mentioning the Church. September 24th 2004, I replied to a list that someone else had sent (that person had mentioned the Church as one of the items in a list of 80s jangly bands - I added a couple more names to the list but personally made no mention of the Church). Prior to that, you're looking at July 2004, when - in a thread about "favourite bands beginning with a C" the Church came tenth in my list. As for Hunters and Collectors, Google tells me that I've mentioned them on Fegmaniax nine times in total in the eleven years I've been here, most recently in June last year. Get over it. >Databasin' for some good 1974-1977 albums which are neither Dylan nor >"New York scene protopunks": Here are a few more - again, the asterisk is hasty, so YMMV Abba Abba, the Album Blue Oyster Cult Agents of Fortune Eric Clapton 461 Ocean Boulevard Fleetwood Mac Rumours Grateful Dead Blues for Allah *Roy Harper HQ (When an old cricketer leaves the crease) Heart Dreamboat Annie Jean-Michel Jarre Oxygene *Jethro Tull Aqualung Kraftwerk Autobahn *Kraftwerk Trans-Europe Express *Joni Mitchell Hejira Joni Mitchell The hissing of summer lawns Alan Parsons I Robot Maddy Prior/June Tabor Silly Sisters *Paul Simon Still crazy after all these years Al Stewart Year of the Cat The Stranglers Rattus Norvegicus Supertramp Crime of the century *Supertramp Crisis, what crisis? Tangerine Dream Rubycon Pete Townshend/Ronnie Laine Rough Mix Frank Zappa Apostrophe *Warren Zevon Warren Zevon > > *Bruce Springsteen Born to Run 1975 > >Everyone told me to get Nebraska a few years back and I have to say that >I've only played it twice. The mood of the record isn't one that jives >well with the moods I'm in when I want to listen to music. well "Nebraska" is an oddity - recorded straight to two track, it sticks out in the Springsteen collection like a stark thumb. You can't judge Sopringsteen's work based on Nebraska alone. Imagine if all of Robyn Hitchcock's albums were like Queen Elvis or Respect except for one which was a home demo of Eye. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 18:56:19 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Feels like 1974-7 > I decided to check when I last had a message in Fegmaniax > mentioning the Church. September 24th 2004, I replied to a list > that someone else had sent (that person had mentioned the Church as > one of the items in a list of 80s jangly bands - I added a couple > more names to the list but personally made no mention of the > Church). Prior to that, you're looking at July 2004, when - in a > thread about "favourite bands beginning with a C" the Church came > tenth in my list. > > As for Hunters and Collectors, Google tells me that I've mentioned > them on Fegmaniax nine times in total in the eleven years I've been > here, most recently in June last year. > > Get over it. If you tallied up just how often you write a music-related post here, those stats wouldn't seem as persuasive. > Jethro Tull Aqualung Misses the time window by three years, dude. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:12:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Feels like 1974-7 On Sun, 21 Aug 2005, James Dignan wrote: > Here are a few more - again, the asterisk is hasty, so YMMV Thanks! > Blue Oyster Cult Agents of Fortune I think I've only ever heard "Don't Fear The Reaper". And I think I liked the cover (The Bats? Frighteners soundtrack album) better. > Eric Clapton 461 Ocean Boulevard I don't think I can be fair about listening to this. Cocaine-addled blooz. > Grateful Dead Blues for Allah Gah, just clippety-cloppety brainf... wait. That's not me. > Kraftwerk Autobahn > *Kraftwerk Trans-Europe Express I have and enjoy the latter, but do not have the former. > The Stranglers Rattus Norvegicus I have Dreamtime from the 1980s. I really liked it in the 1980s. Tell me that this is a typical '70s-'80s transition and this album is harder-edged and full of defiance and I'll seek it out immediately. > Supertramp Crime of the century > *Supertramp Crisis, what crisis? Supertramp is both praised and panned in equal measure and with equal vehemence. What is it all about? > *Paul Simon Still crazy after all these years I have and enjoy everything released as Simon & Garfunkel. But I wonder if that's not plenty. > Abba Abba, the Album > Fleetwood Mac Rumours > *Roy Harper HQ (When an old cricketer leaves the crease) > Heart Dreamboat Annie > Jean-Michel Jarre Oxygene > *Jethro Tull Aqualung > *Joni Mitchell Hejira > Joni Mitchell The hissing of summer lawns > Alan Parsons I Robot > Maddy Prior/June Tabor Silly Sisters > Al Stewart Year of the Cat > Tangerine Dream Rubycon > Pete Townshend/Ronnie Laine Rough Mix > Frank Zappa Apostrophe > *Warren Zevon Warren Zevon I don't got nothin' to write 'bout these. (That means, by the way, that I'll keep 'em in mind and when they come up, give them a listen, but I don't know if I'll seek them out unless things get particularly dry.) >> > *Bruce Springsteen Born to Run 1975 > > well "Nebraska" is an oddity - recorded straight to two track, it sticks > out in the Springsteen collection like a stark thumb. You can't judge > Sopringsteen's work based on Nebraska alone. Imagine if all of Robyn > Hitchcock's albums were like Queen Elvis or Respect except for one which > was a home demo of Eye. That's interesting. I'll keep an eye out (and probably active look at some point). Should be readily available. Now that I've got a decent torrent client that allows me to pick and choose individual files in large torrents, I don't have to download the complete works of, say, Suzanne Vega just to get a digital copy to replace my vinyl copy of Days Of Open Hand. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:42:40 -0500 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: Feels like 1974-7 My last thought on Jeme's '74-'77 thread: Someone who remembers their Steve Harley albums better than I do might make a case for them. I remember them as terribly uneven but with several arty gems that might appeal to a Sparks fan. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 01:37:43 -0400 From: "Brian Nupp" Subject: RE: Driving Aloud Mixes >I had a chance to play with Pro Tools the other day, >and decided to 'mix' the two versions of Driving >Aloud. The two versions I speak of are the album >version and the alternate vocals version from Spectre. > >I did three versions. Version One is a mono comp of >Album Version on the Left side of the stereo signal, >and a mono comp of Alternate Vocals on the Right Side >of the stereo signal. Version Two is just the Left >side of the Album version and the Right side of the >Alternate Vocals. And Version Three is the reverse of >V2. > >It syncs up pretty well. Probably a few milliseconds >off in some parts, but I didn't attempt to clean it >up. For the most part, the chorus matches, but the >verses are very different. I like it. > >It sounds a little disorienting at times, kinda like >Lou Reeds' "The Murder Mystery". > >-griffith This fascinates me! Are you sharing? If you are, can I get an mp3 of versions 1 and 2? - -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:13:18 -0500 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: Feels like 1974-7 Cap, I think Eb and James have given you some great recommendations. The only thing I'll add is that Sparks, particularly the period you're talking about, tops a lot of critics' lists of bands who produced "wankery" of an especially obnoxious variety. I don't mean this in a snarky way. I like those 4 albums and even tolerate the pre-dance-pop "comeback", *Introducing Sparks*, though I don't recommend it. But my point is that you might consider some of the albums you dismissed as wankery -- it's just barely possible that one of them might surprise you the way Sparks did. I'm remembering a nasty, dismissive Billy Altman overview of Sparks in which he docked each album one star for being "somewhat responsible for Queen". That's a good joke, but it's true that Queen's 2nd and 3rd albums (*Queen II*, *Sheer Heart Attack*) have a kind of baroque frenzy that could be considered a heavy-guitar nod to Sparks. Just thought of this: the '77 Split Enz album, *Dizrhythmia*, might have something for you. Carry on, +brian in New Orleans ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #202 ********************************