From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #195 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, August 13 2005 Volume 14 : Number 195 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #194 [James Dignan ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #194 [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #194 [Jeff ] Random [Eb ] Re: Random [Dolph Chaney ] Re: Random [Eb ] Re: Random [Dolph Chaney ] Re: Random [Eb ] Re: Random [Dolph Chaney ] Re: random wiring [Eb ] Re: Random [Jeff ] to the Nupster [Jill Brand ] techno begging once more [Jill Brand ] Groan [Eb ] Re: techno begging once more [Capuchin ] Re: Groan [Jeff ] Re: what Stewart said and renouncing bands ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Ozzfest ["Randalljr" ] reap [James Dignan ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:55:57 +1200 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #194 > >Peter Gabriel III (Melting Face) was always my favorite of his solo > >outings. ... I wonder if I'll > >have the same reaction as you guys had about Security. I am almost afraid > >to give them a spin now. > >As somebody who counts PG as a major influence, I'd say you're much safer >to put III on and not feel like you're trying to squeeze into your prom tux >than Security. III was played by people; Security is a mix of a huge cast >of players + early (albeit striking) Fairlight sequencing, and that's what >makes the album feel somewhat like a sonic can of Aqua Net. The only >terribly dated thing about PG III is the gynormous drum sound (which of >course was invented by Lillywhite / Padgham on XTC's Drums & Wires, >perfected on PG III, then became an 80s cliche). If, like me, you >absolutely adore the big walloping drums, it won't be a problem. I still like PG III and II, it's I and - in particular - IV that seem dated. As for the "big drum" sound. Am I the only one who thinks that Trent Reznor could do a pretty fine and evil take on "Intruder"? James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 23:34:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #194 James Dignan wrote: >> Security is a mix of a huge cast of players + early >> (albeit striking) Fairlight sequencing, and that's what >> makes the album feel somewhat like a sonic can of Aqua >> Net. I wonder if what age you were at the time it came out (or, more specifically, when you first heard it) has much to do with this effect (in general, not just with Security). I actually just listened to Security just become of that exchange, and the production didn't annoy me much at all (I was 10 when it came out, probably 14 when I first heard it). > I still like PG III and II, it's I and - in particular - > IV that seem dated. As for the "big drum" sound. Am I > the only one who thinks that Trent Reznor could do a > pretty fine and evil take on "Intruder"? After hearing his completely wussed out version of Joy Division's "Dead Souls," I'm thinking probably not (and I like the first two NIN albums, am iffy about the latest one, though I do think it's better than the 3rd one). > James > -- > James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand > > > - -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- > =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance > .-=-.-=-.-=-. > -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another > time .-=- > .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") > -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= > "I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." -- Mitch Hedberg . ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:39:20 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V14 #194 On 8/12/05, James Dignan wrote: > I still like PG III and II, it's I and - in particular - IV that seem > dated. I just listened to I the other day - and what struck me is less that it's dated than that it's so very clearly First Solo Album from Guy Who Left Band Because He Wanted to Do So Much More. I mean, it's a total stylistic clusterfuck, everything from barbershop quartet to symphonic disco. Still, I really like a lot of those songs, "Humdrum" in particular. And "Moribund the Burgermeister" is a kick. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 10:48:59 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Random Wow. Wow. Wow. http://corndogs.org/minutemen%2011-15-85.html This is the first "underground" show I ever saw...by ANYONE. And here are mp3's and photos! If I had found my head in the crowd, I would have *completely* freaked. Wow. What a flashback in time. Wow. And Boon died the following month. > I just listened to I the other day - and what struck me is less that > it's dated than that it's so very clearly First Solo Album from Guy > Who Left Band Because He Wanted to Do So Much More. Very well-put. But jeez, how could you not single out "Here Comes the Flood"? It's a goldarn masterpiece. And, personally, I don't think Security is any more dated than PG3. "Shock the Monkey" has aged better than "Games Without Frontiers," "Biko" is a bit dated by subject matter, the PG3 drum style is a bit dated.... And "San Jacinto" still raises the hair of my neck, every time I hear it. So do those *amazing* swirling vocal harmonies which end "The Family and the Fishing Net." And, darn it, why can't PG write chord progressions as interesting as "Wallflower" anymore? I just adore that song, even if I'm always aware of being a predictable sucker for chords with non-tonic bass notes. In other news, I finally got around to playing Send, the Wire reunion album. Now that I've heard it, I'm mystified at all the raves it received. Sharply disappointing to me. There are *Ministry* albums which I like more based on similar criteria, and I'm hardly a big Ministry fan. The album's *production values* are incredible, but the songs themselves? I felt relieved when a track had *two* musical ideas, rather than one. Hrm. Did this album have big fans here? I can't recall. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:40:11 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: Random At 12:48 PM 8/13/2005, Eb wrote: >In other news, I finally got around to playing Send, the Wire reunion >album. Now that I've heard it, I'm mystified at all the raves it >received. Sharply disappointing to me... The album's *production values* >are incredible, but the >songs themselves? I felt relieved when a track had *two* musical >ideas, rather than one. Hrm. Did this album have big fans here? I >can't recall. SEND was my album of the year that year, but only because I was stubbornly not counting the READ & BURN EPs, each of which I felt was more successful at getting the point across in exactly the right amount of time than SEND was. However, criticizing Wire tracks for only having one idea is a little like criticizing bipeds for having two feet. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:43:34 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Random Dolph Chaney wrote: > However, criticizing Wire tracks for only having one idea is a > little like criticizing bipeds for having two feet. Bull. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:13:40 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: Random At 01:43 PM 8/13/2005, Eb wrote: > Dolph Chaney wrote: >>However, criticizing Wire tracks for only having one idea is a >>little like criticizing bipeds for having two feet. > >Bull. I don't like that response; it only has one idea. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:28:47 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Random >>> However, criticizing Wire tracks for only having one idea is a >>> little like criticizing bipeds for having two feet. >> >> Bull. > > I don't like that response; it only has one idea. My big problem with recent Wire is that they fell COMPLETELY in love with "Drill." They seem to view as their ultimate statement of purpose. And they just keep recycling it, and recycling it, and recycling it.... Practically this whole album sounds like "Drill" wannabes. I've also heard that a couple of the best EP tracks aren't included on Send. Which is a bummer, because shelling out for those EPs just may be more redundancy than I can tolerate. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:54:33 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: Random At 02:28 PM 8/13/2005, Eb wrote: >My big problem with recent Wire is that they fell COMPLETELY in love >with "Drill." They seem to view as their ultimate statement of >purpose. There, I'm absolutely 100% with you. I'm not even sure it's the best song on SNAKEDRILL, let alone worthy of an entire modus operandi from such fertile imaginations. In their bio "Everybody Loves A History," they recount that "Drill" was the first piece in their 1985 rehearsals that emerged and caught their enthusiasm, so I can understand their personal attachment to it. It's just that it's only one of many great ideas that came out of those sessions, and it would be interesting to see how they might've followed the other paths as well. >I've also heard that a couple of the best EP tracks aren't included >on Send. Which is a bummer, because shelling out for those EPs just >may be more redundancy than I can tolerate. If your preferred legally-kosher download emporium permits, I recommend "I Don't Understand" & "Germ Ship" from READ & BURN 01 and "Trash/Treasure" from 02. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:00:43 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: random wiring >> I've also heard that a couple of the best EP tracks aren't included >> on Send. Which is a bummer, because shelling out for those EPs just >> may be more redundancy than I can tolerate. > > If your preferred legally-kosher download emporium permits, I > recommend "I Don't Understand" & "Germ Ship" from READ & BURN 01 > and "Trash/Treasure" from 02. I already grabbed "I Don't Understand" and, yeah, I like it better than practically any Send track. The Pitchfork review laments that "Trash/Treasure" and "Raft Ants" were left off the album. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 15:20:37 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Random On 8/13/05, Eb wrote: > > I just listened to I the other day - and what struck me is less that > > it's dated than that it's so very clearly First Solo Album from Guy > > Who Left Band Because He Wanted to Do So Much More. > > Very well-put. But jeez, how could you not single out "Here Comes the > Flood"? It's a goldarn masterpiece. Sure. I wasn't being all-inclusive. Although in some ways, I like the more understated version of HCtF on Fripp's _Exposure_ album... > In other news, I finally got around to playing Send, the Wire reunion > album. Now that I've heard it, I'm mystified at all the raves it > received. Sharply disappointing to me. There are *Ministry* albums > which I like more based on similar criteria, and I'm hardly a big > Ministry fan. The album's *production values* are incredible, but the > songs themselves? I felt relieved when a track had *two* musical > ideas, rather than one. Hrm. Did this album have big fans here? I > can't recall. First, make sure you played it really really really loud. That helps, immensely! Anyway: the thing about the EPs is that they do their bit by coming in, going out, and being over almost before you know it. It didn't bother me so much, the inclusion of some of those tracks on the full-length, because _Send_ is sequenced as an album, with more sense of album's flow of time, and so the tracks sound different (even when they're sonically identical, which most though not all of the EP tracks are) in that context. I think a lot of the tracks have more than one idea: usually, though, the shorter tracks are singly focused, while the longer ones incorporate a couple more ideas. At any rate I agree that Wire has always been about exploring ideas - sometimes one per song, and it goes as far as it goes. I will agree, though, that "Drill" as template may not have been the best one. And I do think the evolution from beginning to end of Wire vers. III is considerably less dramatic than that of either the first or second versions of Wire. If vers. III is still together (there were rumors...), I certainly hope things develop a bit further, a bit less predictably. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: to the Nupster Jill: >np: the Decemberists singing "Up the Junction" >And Nuppy asked: The Squeeze song? I'm in total early Squeeze mode... The very same. Squeeze was and is the only band that ever caused my car to be towed. We are also in Squeeze mode. My son (16) just discovered Elvis Costello (yippee!) and Squeeze (no coincidence), so we just returned from a trip with East Side Story on the CD player. Jill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:11:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: techno begging once more If anyone knows the answer to this, please write me offline. We would like to get a DVD burner to hook up to the TV and to take old videotapes (not anything we could just buy on a DVD already) and burn them. Does one have to get a VCR/DVD combo thingy, or could I hook my quite good SONY VCR up to a DVD burner with the same results (would cable traveling compromise the picture?)? Thanks, Jill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:27:23 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Groan OK, I just read that, due to the recent legal decision, "The Doors of the 21st Century" have changed their name to "D21C." That's progress for ya. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: techno begging once more On Sat, 13 Aug 2005, Jill Brand wrote: > If anyone knows the answer to this, please write me offline. We would > like to get a DVD burner to hook up to the TV and to take old videotapes > (not anything we could just buy on a DVD already) and burn them. Does > one have to get a VCR/DVD combo thingy, or could I hook my quite good > SONY VCR up to a DVD burner with the same results (would cable traveling > compromise the picture?)? I really think your best bet is to get a DVD burner for the PC and then use some kind of capture device. I recommend a firewire card (if you don't already have firewire) and either a DV camcorder or one of those TV/DV transcoder boxes. A DV camcorder will usually act as one of those devices all on its own (worst case, you have to transfer the VHS to DV and then dump it back to the PC). What you end up doing is dumping the video into the PC and getting a digital video file that you can then chop into tracks or edit or whatever and then master a DVD with menus and things of your own design. Someone else would have to make software recommendations as I'm totally out of touch with the bits-for-cash racquet. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:32:33 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Groan On 8/13/05, Eb wrote: > OK, I just read that, due to the recent legal decision, "The Doors of > the 21st Century" have changed their name to "D21C." Wouldn't it have been simpler just to call themselves You Suckers'll Pay For Anything Won't You? - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:38:28 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: what Stewart said and renouncing bands Jill Brand wrote: > > I thought that Stewart was being a total snob and that Let It Bleed was > a fucking great album. Hey, it's not unknown. I have my opinions about music, and I'm not afraid to share. > HOWEVER, early Stones and early Who are totally fab > gear groovy. I'd agree. 'Disguises' is one of my favourite Of Montreal songs, and I didn't know it was a Who original until recently. And the Who's version is, if anything, better than OM's. cheers, Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 15:50:23 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Groan >> OK, I just read that, due to the recent legal decision, "The Doors of >> the 21st Century" have changed their name to "D21C." >> > > Wouldn't it have been simpler just to call themselves You Suckers'll > Pay For Anything Won't You? They should have just switched to "The Cult of the 21st Century." Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:41:21 -0700 From: "Randalljr" Subject: Ozzfest So I'm waiting for Iron Maiden to come on when the video screen suddenly lights up. Everyone anticipates the band as the stage has just been set up and we all stand and cheer but what happens? An ad for a television program. Holy crap! Anyways, Maiden arrives after this abomination and were in excellent form. Sporting 3 guitar players these days they played only songs from their first 4 records. Perfect. Bruce Dickinson's voice nor his looks have aged a bit and bass master Steve Harris was king of the stage. "Phantom of the Opera" was the highlight for me. Black Sabbath. Ozzy was very short of voice and at one point had a tantrum and left the stage. And I could have gone without seeing Ozzy's bare, white pimply ass when he mooned us. I guess I can always tell people that I saw Black Sabbath. We arrived pretty late and weren't able to check out many other bands. Mudvayne were pretty good. The whole Ozzfest atmosphere was very positive and we had a great time. I'd highly recommend an Iron Maiden concert for all. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:48:00 +1200 From: James Dignan Subject: reap David Lange, 63 There are probably only about three or four politicians worldwide that I'd mourn the passing of, but Lange was definitely one of them. He brought New zealand kickign and screaming out of the bucolic pastoral backwaters and into the modern world. There was pain on the way, but he was compassionate enough to realise when enough was enough. Without him, NZ would be a third-world backwater. He was also possibly the finest and wittiest political speaker anywhere on earth in the last 40 years. RIP James "The New Zealand armed forces are a government agency, just like the Department of Social Welfare, but with considerably less ability to cause widespread devastation" (Lange) - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #195 ********************************