From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #82 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, March 30 2005 Volume 14 : Number 082 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: My Other Life is Waiting (but who knows where...) [Eb ] Re: Setlist from Southpaw, 3/25/05 [Barbara Soutar ] Same old story [Carrie Galbraith ] RE: Same old story ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: Same old story [The Great Quail ] Re: Same old story [Lauren Elizabeth at gmail dot com ] Re: Same old story [Jeff ] Re: Same old story [Eb ] RE: Same old story ["Brian Nupp" ] Re: Same old story [The Great Quail ] Potential Reap? [2and2makes5@comcast.net] Re: Same old story [Eb ] Incidentally... [Eb ] Re: Same old story [Jeff ] Re: Same old story [The Great Quail ] Re: Same old story [Carrie Galbraith ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:30:22 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: My Other Life is Waiting (but who knows where...) BLATZMAN@aol.com wrote: > I for example just made it clear that I hate Belle & Sebastion, amoung > others. I didn't say anything about other people listening to that > stuff... You > retorted with a "ha ha ha YOU like Journey". Laughing at me because > of what > I like or dislike.... now THAT'S very playground/maypole. You obviously missed my point of my retort, which was to underscore the "playground" way you expressed your opinion. What did you call B&S, "Shit and Crapstian"? Something sophisticated like that? And I'm "OK" with my online behavior, thanks. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:17:22 -0500 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Re: Carry on... Rex: Too bad you're leaving, but only you can judge how much dodging of verbal basketballs is necessary in your life at the moment. I imagine that you will come back eventually. Please do. Barbara Soutar Victoria, BC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:31:10 -0500 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Re: Setlist from Southpaw, 3/25/05 Becky: I enjoyed your review a LOT. I can imagine how it all went, your writing nicely laid out the give and take of the night. Quotes from Robyn are always fun to read. Thanks, Barbara Soutar Victoria, BC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:53:13 -0500 From: "Brian Nupp" Subject: Eb/F-head Eb, Still waiting for that Futureheads review (arms crossed, foot tapping...). Did you write one and not post it here? - -Nuppy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:39:18 +0300 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Same old story Rex, Sorry to see you leave. I felt the same way when the Quail signed off a few years ago. I've only been on this list going on 8 or 9 years but I find that there are times I even signed off, without any fanfare, due to flamewars. The 2000 election was the first time. Man, that was ugly. I got sick of reading it. So Rex, I plan to see you here again sometime over the next few years. My other lists are so rigid about netiquette that I am surprised sometimes by this one. But then I've exchanged a few off line emails with Even Eb and met Eddie and so many other Fegs that these Flames seem almost silly. Really guys, we do see eye to eye. Be Seeing You, - - c ************************************** Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself. ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:02:42 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Same old story Carrie wrote: >Rex, >Sorry to see you leave. I felt the same way when the Quail signed off a >few years ago. >I've only been on this list going on 8 or 9 years but I find that there >are times I even signed off, without any fanfare, due to flamewars. The >2000 election was the first time. Man, that was ugly. I got sick of >reading it. >So Rex, I plan to see you here again sometime over the next few years. >My other lists are so rigid about netiquette that I am surprised >sometimes by this one. >But then I've exchanged a few off line emails with Even Eb and met >Eddie and so many other Fegs that these Flames seem almost silly. >Really guys, we do see eye to eye. I wonder how many Fegs we have lost over the last 4 1/2 years? Too many in my book. Michael B. - On the Feg list since 1999. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 16:19:26 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Same old story On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:02:42 -0500, Bachman, Michael wrote: > I wonder how many Fegs we have lost over the last 4 1/2 years? > Too many in my book. I think henceforth before flaming another feg, anyone thinking of doing so should first have to repeat, ten times rapidly, a name I heard at LAX the other day over the PA: "Russell Wheelwright" - and post an mp3 proving correct achievement of the task to the web. It's an idea... - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:11:22 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Same old story > I wonder how many Fegs we have lost over the last 4 1/2 years? > Too many in my book. I know for a fact that several New York Fegs dropped off the List after 911. (Including me, for a while.) And I hope this goes without saying, but it was certainly not my intention to chase Rex from the List. I was taken aback when he posted his (hopefully temporary) farewell. Having said that, this whole experience has certainly left a sour taste in my mouth. Not all of us here can agree with each other or be good friends. But I don't enjoy the fact that I helped contribute to a climate where people may feel the need to be *over* cautious when they argue about each other's onlist behavior. I don't think it should tolerate unmitigated nastiness; but I don't think I stepped too far out of bounds in my responses to Rex. Eb told me that maybe I was in "overkill" mode with Rex, and there may be some truth to that. But still, I was not expecting him to pick up his toys and go home, and I find this uneasy feeling in my gut very unwelcome. To quote the Luna song I'm listening to right now, with all Dean's cynicism intact, "If I had to do it all again, I wouldn't." - --Quail PS: Regarding Carrie's comment about increased moderation: I am dead set against it. The only Lists I really enjoy (Fegmaniax!, the Pynchon List, Spiral-Bound) are all unmoderated, and do erupt in the occasional flame war; but I think that's an acceptable to pay for a sense of freedom. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:11:45 -0500 From: Lauren Elizabeth at gmail dot com Subject: Re: Same old story Carrie Galbraith says: > I've only been on this list going on 8 or 9 years but I find that there > are times I even signed off, without any fanfare, due to flamewars. The > 2000 election was the first time. Man, that was ugly. I got sick of > reading it. Reading the archives around the time of 2000 elections kept me off the 'regular' list for another few years God knows I should either be less opinionated, or less sensitive, but I felt that if I signed on at that point, I was destined for the 'chaff' pile - "a man's got to know his limitations" and what not... Coincidentally, it was saying hello to a Real Life Feg at a show last fall that gave me the nerve to finally join so I have to admit that, at least in this case, "reality" helped. I am still either too opinionated or too sensitive, but a woman's (i.e. another woman's) touch won't hurt this place, so hopefully it'll be a nice place to hang around. xo Lauren - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I hate all music. Except 'Roadrunner' by The Modern Lovers." - John Lydon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:20:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Revolutionary Army of the Baby Jesus" Subject: Re: Carry on... seconded, and i'll give you a *major* reason why it could be so: because you (rex) place punctuation *outside* of close-quotes (where it belongs), while both quail and eb place it *inside* (where it most decidedly does *not* belong) -- the very *definition* of "scalawag". fuckin' quail even places punctuation inside "close-italics" -- i can only presume with the intention of eliciting an most horrible conniption on my end (which goal he's coming quite close to realising). KEN "365 ways to cook chicken" THE KENSTER ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:17:23 -0800 From: Eb Subject: reap Johnnie Cochran Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:32:07 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Same old story On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:11:22 -0500, The Great Quail wrote: > And I hope this goes without saying, but it was certainly not my intention > to chase Rex from the List. I was taken aback when he posted his (hopefully > temporary) farewell. > > Having said that, this whole experience has certainly left a sour taste in > my mouth. Not all of us here can agree with each other or be good friends. > But I don't enjoy the fact that I helped contribute to a climate where > people may feel the need to be *over* cautious when they argue about each > other's onlist behavior. I don't think it should tolerate unmitigated > nastiness; but I don't think I stepped too far out of bounds in my responses > to Rex. Eb told me that maybe I was in "overkill" mode with Rex, and there > may be some truth to that. But still, I was not expecting him to pick up his > toys and go home, and I find this uneasy feeling in my gut very unwelcome. Oh puh-lease. I can smell the Sincerity(tm) brand cheapo knockoff cologne from here. What happened here is that Eb, for no reason I can discern, twice in one week threw little jabs Rex's way for daring to mention his band. Rex got pissed - and you, having witnessed Eb flicking cigarette ashes in Rex's face, decided it would be a high and propitious time to weigh in with your flatulently self-satisfied judgment on Rex's supposed pomposity (uh-huh...) and self-involvement (right). Who the fuck asked you? Which is more relevant to a music list: a member's musical efforts, or a member's tedious diaries of running? (Not that I'd really mind Eb's running posts if he behaved more civilly: I'm certainly not interested in Japanese animation, computer geekery, or, uh, squids - but I'm equally certain others aren't interested in politics or where close-quotation marks go, even if I am.) And you know, I can't recall anyone but Eb or Quail jumping in and dissing Rex - and I can remember quite a few folks defending him. So I guess he wasn't the list pariah after all, and his departure won't ring in 1000 years of glory, the streets being paved with golden opiated edible massage oils, or lions directing lambs in traffic and not sending them intentionally into head-on collisions. So next time try regretting things *before* you go and start beating on people, and please: can the aggrieved-innocent routine (with the ex-post-facto regret option package). - -- ...Jeff, who ain't leavin' The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:46:15 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Same old story Jeff wrote: > Which is more relevant to a music list: a member's musical efforts, or > a member's tedious diaries of running? Oh please...again. It's amazing how much my "post crimes" are being inflated right now. Eb, off to run now :p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 21:50:27 -0500 From: "Brian Nupp" Subject: RE: Same old story I'm sad to see Rex leave too, but... As for everyone expressing their *grief* of him leaving which is meant for Rex to read, I'd like to remind you all to CC to his address (rexbroome@gmail.com) as otherwise he won't read them! - ---- Original Message ---- From: meketone@ix.netcom.com To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: RE: Same old story Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:39:18 +0300 >Rex, >Sorry to see you leave. I felt the same way when the Quail signed off >a >few years ago. > >I've only been on this list going on 8 or 9 years but I find that >there >are times I even signed off, without any fanfare, due to flamewars. >The >2000 election was the first time. Man, that was ugly. I got sick of >reading it. > >So Rex, I plan to see you here again sometime over the next few >years. > >My other lists are so rigid about netiquette that I am surprised >sometimes by this one. > >But then I've exchanged a few off line emails with Even Eb and met >Eddie and so many other Fegs that these Flames seem almost silly. >Really guys, we do see eye to eye. > >Be Seeing You, >- c >************************************** >Questions are a burden for others. >Answers are a prison for oneself. >************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:20:18 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Same old story Well, Jeff, I was waiting for you to weigh in. I admit that I've made a few off-list cracks about the Feglist becoming the "Rex and Jeff Show," so I'm not surprised that you harbor such ill-will at me for criticizing your friend. > Oh puh-lease. I can smell the Sincerity(tm) brand cheapo knockoff > cologne from here. Well, no matter what you think, I was being sincere -- this has left a sour taste in my mouth. But I think from your letter you may have mistook the reasons. I hope to be more clear in this post. I have numerous flaws, but I am generally very sincere in my feelings. > Who the fuck asked you? It's a public list. I do not need to be "asked" to weigh in on a public discussion, debate, or altercation. Who the fuck made you the List nanny? Oh - -- wait -- it's just a position you assumed! More on that in a bit. > Which is more relevant to a music list: a member's musical efforts, or > a member's tedious diaries of running? Man, I've been through this before, and I don't need to repeat it at length. It's Rex's tendency to hijack postings and make self-referential comments that irritated me. Oh, and I know full well that *I* can be pompous. The Internet is full of pompous people, as is this list -- you, me, and Rex all have that in common. (Jesus, am I pompous! I have a freaking *Rush* calendar!) > And you know, I can't recall anyone but Eb or Quail jumping in and > dissing Rex - and I can remember quite a few folks defending him. So I > guess he wasn't the list pariah after all, I am not sure where you are getting the idea that he was a "List pariah." In fact, I said several times that I felt I was in the minority when I criticized Rex. I do know that I am certainly not *alone,* however; but I'm sure that Rex has his own supply of off-list "Quail is such an asshole" emails. I can send him a few if he needs any. > So next time try regretting things *before* you go and start beating > on people, "Beating" on people? Please. So I think that Rex can be whiny, childish, self-serving, and disingenuous. You think I'm a flatulent ass, and a lot of people think Eb is Satan. (I think Satan thinks Eb is Satan.) Well, I support the right to be able to *say* these things. I feel -- and this is crucial -- I feel that there's an element on the Feg List that has formed a black-slapping mutual admiration society. You and Rex are firmly ensconced at the core of this element. And this has created, in my opinion, a certain clubhouse atmosphere. As long as indulgent "members" sit back and laugh as you and Rex exchange fifty-page reviews of mix tapes you send each other, or as long as well all subscribe to a politically correct philosophy, or we all agree that actually *criticizing* one of the club officers is simply tasteless, everything is fine. The second you step out of line, however, Nanny Cop comes down on you with her humorless nightstick: How *dare* you criticize poor Rex! You are a cruel, hateful man! Well -- bully on that! I'll stand here and shout my opinions through my megaphone: Rex is a boor, Jeff can be aggravatingly self-satisfied, and the Feg List will survive another flame war. >and please: can the aggrieved-innocent routine (with the > ex-post-facto regret option package). Hey, wait! I never said that I was innocent. (But nice Latin usage, there.) I am just saying that I wasn't trying to drive him from the List. Which is true -- I didn't think he'd be so thinned-skinned. But I think that you've misread my last email. Let me be more clear. I wouldn't do it again *not* because I feel bad for Rex, but because I hate setting a precedent where people may be afraid to criticize another person because they may drop off the List. And because this really hasn't been worth all this effort. (I am not sure if you know the Luna song "Black Postcards;" but the quote is meant to express a certain weary cynicism, not actual contrition.)(Eddie, if you are reading, take that outside-the-quotes semi-colon and shove it up your commie ass!) As I've said many times, I think that Rex has a disingenuous side to his on-list persona, and I find his petulant withdrawal to be a bit childishly executed -- as I inferred with the "take his toys and go home" comment. The sour taste is because I feel that I've been made out to be a bully, when I think I was just calling "bullshit" top Rex's wearisome protestations of innocence. Look -- I do feel increasingly weird about this List. Most of my friends have dropped off; and over the last few years, I feel that I'm becoming a "bad guy." After all, there's you, Capuchin, Rex, Barbara, Ben, and a few others who *clearly* think I'm an asshole. But I love Robyn, I love music, I still love a lot of the folks on this List, and the conversation is usually pretty damn interesting. And it's also the only way I know who's died. But as for keeping my peace when the clubhouse decides to bestow sainthood on Rex? I'd rather join the cranks in the trash can. So, you may not believe me, but I am unhappy that Rex decided to leave; but I do not feel guilty. It was his choice. - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 03:38:31 +0000 From: 2and2makes5@comcast.net Subject: Potential Reap? Not allwell with Falwell: http://tinyurl.com/3wo3p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:18:33 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Same old story The Great Quail wrote: > "Beating" on people? Please. So I think that Rex can be whiny, > childish, > self-serving, and disingenuous. You think I'm a flatulent ass, and a > lot of > people think Eb is Satan. (I think Satan thinks Eb is Satan.) My inability to get along with folks continues to be exaggerated. Actually, Satan and I are on pretty friendly terms. I even put up with all his fanboy chatter about Barenaked Ladies. > As long as indulgent "members" > sit back and laugh as you and Rex exchange fifty-page reviews of mix > tapes > you send each other Oh man...I forgot about those. Eeeek. I don't know if people appreciate how many irritating Rex posts I *didn't* say anything about. > So, you may not believe me, but I am unhappy that Rex decided to > leave; but > I do not feel guilty. It was his choice. Did he actually even say he was unsubscribing? My impression was just that he planned to "lurk" for awhile. Heck, I myself went into lurkdom for seven or eight months at one point.... Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:22:33 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Incidentally... ...if anybody owes the list an apology right now, it's *Eddie* for posting that false-alarm "reap" about Kurt Vonnegut. That upset me more than any other "reap" announcement in awhile, and it wasn't even true. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:48:50 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Same old story On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:20:18 -0500, The Great Quail wrote: > > Who the fuck asked you? > > It's a public list. I do not need to be "asked" to weigh in on a public > discussion, debate, or altercation. Who the fuck made you the List nanny? Oh > -- wait -- it's just a position you assumed! More on that in a bit. Indeed. But what I was getting at is this: specific criticisms of a particular post, or idea, make sense. But it's unmotivated, generalized pissing-on that irritates. And I'm pretty sure I'd feel that way if you, or anyone, had dumped on someone I'm indifferent about (by definition, can't think of any particular person) or even someone I actively dislike. That might sound like me adjusting a self-fashioned halo on my head - but I'm thinking of one particular person on another list, whom I defended when people got aggressively personal in attacking, even though I also found his posts inane and annoying. I don't think I'm the "list nanny." I think I'm someone expressing my opinion of something. You're free to agree, disagree, or ignore...but *usually* I'm doing that not in an aggressive, insulting manner (or at least, I try not to). I will fully cop to being aggressive and insulting in some of these posts, because I'm pissed off. I'm not proud of it, but there it is. > > > Which is more relevant to a music list: a member's musical efforts, or > > a member's tedious diaries of running? > > Man, I've been through this before, and I don't need to repeat it at length. > It's Rex's tendency to hijack postings and make self-referential comments > that irritated me. See, this is what's confusing to me: of all places to imply that we should hew to some pre-defined subject, fegmaniax is the least likely. *Everyone* "hijacks" posts - if you mean, turns them over to subjects of their own interest - and nearly everyone is "self-referential," if you read that as simply as addressing their interests or involvement with a subject. I mean, I don't think I know more about Rex's life than I do about some other folks here, except insofar as we've communicated offlist. But you disagree. That's fine. But I still think your jumping all over Rex was uncalled for; i.e., unmotivated by anything he said, and not in response to any sort of attack, etc. Or another way: if you saw Rex as tending to "hijack postings and make self-referential comments" and was irritated by that, did you ever e-mail him offlist to try to improve the situation before letting him have it *onlist*? > Oh, and I know full well that *I* can be pompous. The Internet is full of > pompous people, as is this list -- you, me, and Rex all have that in common. > (Jesus, am I pompous! I have a freaking *Rush* calendar!) That's nothing - I have a "Great Moments in Pomposity" engraved toothbrush. > > And you know, I can't recall anyone but Eb or Quail jumping in and > > dissing Rex - and I can remember quite a few folks defending him. So I > > guess he wasn't the list pariah after all, > > I am not sure where you are getting the idea that he was a "List pariah." You may want to check the readout on your sarcasm meter. It appears to be malfunctioning. The circuits for "exaggeration" aren't reading properly. > "Beating" on people? Please. So I think that Rex can be whiny, childish, > self-serving, and disingenuous. You think I'm a flatulent ass, and a lot of > people think Eb is Satan. (I think Satan thinks Eb is Satan.) Well, I > support the right to be able to *say* these things. And I support the right to say things back - and the principle that actions, including language, have consequences. (Such as people thinking you're acting like an asshole...a feeling, by the way, I've been on the other side of.) > I feel -- and this is crucial -- I feel that there's an element on the Feg > List that has formed a black-slapping mutual admiration society. Oh no. You're not going to get me going on anti-racism again. Nice clever bait described as a typo - but I won't fall for it! You and Rex > are firmly ensconced at the core of this element. And this has created, in > my opinion, a certain clubhouse atmosphere. As long as indulgent "members" > sit back and laugh as you and Rex exchange fifty-page reviews of mix tapes > you send each other I've sent Rex one mix CD. He's sent me zero - although he owes me one, and dammit, he owes me some Tom Verlaine shit as well. What you deride as a "clubhouse atmosphere," others would call "a group of friends." Sad that you - and Eb - seem incapable of enjoying that at times. Was someone keeping you out? Did you think the members of that "club" agree (or pretend to agree) with everything each of them says? 'Fraid not...sticking to the ground of music, and naming a few other folks here whom I've known for years, I, unlike Miles, do not worship the ground Mr. Springsteen treads, and he, unlike me, gets absolutely nothing out of Pavement, or Guided by Voices, or Stereolab. We haven't kicked one another out of our respective clubs for such infractions. I don't "get" at all some of the stuff Aaron Mandel likes - - and he's had harsh words for some stuff I just love. So? , or as long as well all subscribe to a politically > correct philosophy I can't help it - they keep sending me issues even though I've cancelled my subscription...which was suspiciously listed under "Jaferry Norlman" anyway. A philosophy is "politically correct" only if its adherents profess belief in it not from conviction but from convenience. You can go back and read all my posts over the years (okay, probably you can't - who's got the time?), and although there are plenty of failures I'll cop to, trying on fashionable political outfits solely because someone else thinks they're cute isn't one of them. (Discounting that sneaky Freud Couturiers, where they slip clothing on you while you're not looking, of course...) , or we all agree that actually *criticizing* one of the > club officers is simply tasteless, everything is fine. The second you step > out of line, however, Nanny Cop comes down on you with her humorless > nightstick: How *dare* you criticize poor Rex! You are a cruel, hateful man! > Well -- bully on that! I'll stand here and shout my opinions through my > megaphone: Rex is a boor, Jeff can be aggravatingly self-satisfied Did you know my farts exude the perfume of a veritably Eno-esque panoply of floral and herbal bouquet? It's true, they do. Speaking of Freud Couturiers, that's a very fashionable gender mashup you've got going there with that Nanny Cop image. Anyway: I will henceforth restrain myself from attempting humor, since it clearly backfires and gets me called "humorless." Just because I'm ill-dressed that doesn't mean I'm naked. Anyway, addressing the actual point: I find it ironic that I'm being criticized for criticizing someone who criticizes. So I'll repeat: *my* criticism has to do with the roundhouse, overgeneralized criticism that seemed unmotivated and overdone - *not* with criticism in general. And finally: I'm sorry that you find the concept of defending one's friends so distasteful. > true -- I didn't think he'd be so thinned-skinned. You know what? I agree - I think he overreacted, and I think he didn't need to keep harping on it. (A pause while physicians administer recuperatives against the shock that I just said something negative about St. Rexford of W.Va.) And I told him so. But (uh-oh - now I'm channeling Cap) is it a good idea to continue in hurtful actions, knowing they're hurtful, when there's no compelling reason to do so, even if that hurt isn't wholly justifiable? Did it even occur to you that - oh, perhaps, maybe - he might be more sensitive 'round about now having just gone through a divorce? And he has two kids, you know. No, I'm not saying this to imply "you insensitive cad!" - but I think some allowance for thin-skinnedness might make sense under the circumstances... > Look -- I do feel increasingly weird about this List. Most of my friends > have dropped off; and over the last few years, I feel that I'm becoming a > "bad guy." After all, there's you, Capuchin, Rex, Barbara, Ben, and a few > others who *clearly* think I'm an asshole. Nah, I don't think you *are* an asshole. I think that, in this case, you were acting like one. That is a difference: I don't think you're an asshole all the time, and after a while, as my temper cools further, I'll be perfectly fine being perfectly civil to you. Doesn't mean I don't think your (and Eb's) outburst of animus wasn't inappropriate and unproductive. (note: Eb, insert note here about how interminably tedious this post is, thereby proving that, for some reason, you still read it all.) - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:10:09 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: Same old story Jesus, Jeff! How sad is it that it's near midnight on a school night and we're spending our time online bitching at each other? Shouldn't we reserve this for goofing off at work hours? - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:55:47 +0300 From: Carrie Galbraith Subject: Re: Same old story On 30.03.2005, at 02:11, The Great Quail wrote: > PS: Regarding Carrie's comment about increased moderation: I am dead > set > against it. The only Lists I really enjoy (Fegmaniax!, the Pynchon > List, > Spiral-Bound) are all unmoderated, and do erupt in the occasional > flame war; > but I think that's an acceptable to pay for a sense of freedom. Oops! I never meant to lobby for imposed or increased moderation! It's the most irritating part of the Book Arts List for me. They are so tediously polite and so quickly pounced on when any hint of argument occurs that I read it merely for the information of events and latest published work. I feel no real sense of community whatsoever. And that is the joy of Fegmaniax. Community. Many of us have gone out of our way, over and over, to meet other Fegs. That is what has kept me on the list, or made me return the couple of times I've unsubscribed for a while. Of course we don't see eye-to-eye, of course we can't all be best friends, our lives are all different, all over the world, in different cultures, time zones, genders, etc. But in the end, really, we all play fairly well together. So some flaming is to be had, I just feel it gets so out of hand sometimes. Of course I also find the tech discussions that also sometimes erupt on the list to be tedious as well. But I'm free to read or not read them as I see fit. I still find more like minds in the fans of Mr. Hitchcock than I do in my day-to-day interactions with most of my colleagues. And that is what keeps us all here, I think. Be Seeing You, - - c *************************************************** Patagonia is what's left, Patagonia, which befits my immense sadness, Patagonia and a trip to the South Seas *************************************************** ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #82 *******************************