From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #79 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, March 26 2005 Volume 14 : Number 079 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: a-Huh????????????? [Rex Broome ] Free Speech and all [Christopher Hintz ] re: Maxwell's show on Saturday [Barbara Soutar ] hello again [Dane Horsfeld ] Re: hello again [Lauren Elizabeth at gmail dot com ] Re: a-Huh????????????? [The Great Quail ] Re: a-Huh????????????? [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: a-Huh????????????? [The Great Quail ] Re: a-Huh????????????? [Benjamin Lukoff ] NEW on EZT: RH, Great American Music Hall, San Francisco 1988.7.28 (both shows/aud) [Dmitry Gokhman Subject: Re: a-Huh????????????? Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > Boooooooooooooooooooooooooring.... > [yes, I know, I can hit 'delete'...but I'm sort of getting sick of doing > it] FWIW I agree on both counts. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:50:16 -0500 From: Christopher Hintz Subject: Free Speech and all OK, you're all entitled to your stupid WRONG opinions on Belle & Sebastian, and my beloved Decemberists...so I don't judge you for your lack of insight into this whole modern music thing. Nope no judging. Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord Just not lest ye be judged etc (just messin with the fegs!) seriously, there's some really bad B+S songs out there! not having a producer until they met up with old Trevor Horn tended to create situations like, oh, a whole bunch of B sides (on albums) and Fold Your Hands, Child and, oh, what was that, Storytelling? BUT if you diss the Decemberists one more time I swear the wrath of God shall engulf you anus to earlobe, leaving behind only a pair of charred kneecaps and some unstrung sinews and curdled toenails! godammit! here endeth the lesson (I figured if I come out of lurkdom I might as well be as pissy as everyone else has been lately) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:11:59 -0500 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: re: Maxwell's show on Saturday Lauren, I like how you put this: "it would be nice to meet some of you folks in 3-D. If you do, as you seem to claim, exist." I met some of the Canadian fegs a couple of years ago and it made all the difference to my belief in their reality. Barbara Soutar Victoria, BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:58:47 -0500 From: Dane Horsfeld Subject: hello again Hey everyone, it's been years and years since I was on the list and I never used to have time ot post. Just started reading again a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure Eb wasn't this much of an a-hole when I left, heh heh. Hey dude, I liked it better when you talked about random shit instead of acting like someone put your dick in a beehive, know what I mean? Guess that's life...... Anyway, how about Spooked, huh? Bet the whole list talked it to death when it came out so I won't bore ya too much about it, but I thought it kind of sucked until I listened to it way too much in the car. Robyn's still got it, he just needs to show it off a little.Shake it baby! Wait, that's not what I meant. See ya... Dane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:30:03 -0500 From: Lauren Elizabeth at gmail dot com Subject: Re: hello again Dane Horsfeld says: > Anyway, how about Spooked, huh? Bet the whole list talked it to death > when it came out so I won't bore ya too much about it, but I thought > it kind of sucked until I listened to it way too much in the car. I'm new to the regular list, so I'm one who didn't get to talk about 'Spooked' except with my friends most of whom I imagine kind of 'put up' with my Hitchcock talk. I really liked it straight away and I think the reason is that he seems to have embraced the 'lighter' style of music that he's been playing for a few years. I don't know - it's like on e.g. especially 'Luxor' he was aware that he was being kind of adult contemporary or folky or 'light' and wasn't really comfortable with it on some level. I would imagine the addition of Welch and Rawlings helped along these lines. 'If You Know Time' has really grown on me. He's still a bit venomous...just quieter about it, which isn't easy these days. I personally love his voice on the album. I don't think it's in any way 'better' than before - I can understand why at least one person on the list says it's trashed. But it's got that sort of character that I associate with getting older - it kind of cracks in places and he seems to have a maturity of control because he's been singing for so damn long, but because he's getting up there, there's also the a lack of control. But I like singers whose 'humaness' shows through (i.e. singers who don't sound trained or perfect - e.g. Liz Phair, Elliott Smith), so that's likely why that quality appeals to me. > Robyn's still got it, he just needs to show it off a little.Shake it > baby! Wait, that's not what I meant. I'm always in favour of Robyn shakin' it! I would welcome you back to the list but I think that breaks elder-younger list status etiquette. Welcome back regardless... xo Lauren - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I hate all music. Except 'Roadrunner' by The Modern Lovers." - John Lydon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:03:58 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Last night's Southpaw show.... ...was amazing! Robyn looked great -- lizard shirt, white hair, good shape, lots of genuine smiling -- and played even better. A real groovathon of wonderful songs, including some audience requests and a few pretty nifty covers. And I *finally* got to hear "Ghost Ship" -- I've seen Robyn 30+ times, and have never seen him perform my favorite song! But he took my request, woo-hoo! Deni Bonet joined him for the last half of the show, which meant a scattering of "Moss Elixir" tunes: "Beautiful Queen" never sounded better. They also played "Sinister but Happy," "De Chirico Street," and broke out "Egyptian Cream." Trying to remember some solo stuff -- "Glass Hotel" sounded damn good. I don't recall anything from "Luxor" or "Spooked," though. He gave a long introduction to "Everyone's Got to Know their Limits, Briggs." As for covers, Robyn played Lennon's "Mind Games," the Kink's "Waterloo Sunset," the Beatles "When the Rain Comes," Barrett's "Gigolo Aunt," Dylan's "Sad Eyed Lady of the Low Lands," and the band's "Walcott's Medicine Show." (Not sure about the actual title there...) Best of all, he just looked....you know, *happy.* Before the show, he even came out and visited the long line waiting to get in, reminding us to "write big" when we turned in our requests. - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:09:11 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: a-Huh????????????? Boring or not, I'd like to continue this: Rex writes, > Conceded. But on my end it actually was meant in jest. Many a barb has been concealed in the shiny lure of humor. Stop being disingenuous. > Dude, that was a joke. Clearly it wasn't a "debate" That's hardly the opinion I formed reading your post, in which you chided the "List" -- meaning Eb, and possibly myself -- and referred to your discourse as a debate. It was ridiculous -- the dust settles down, so you go a few rounds of chumminess with Blatzy, and you use that to throw another dart in Eb's direction. And don't forget all your stuff about a "kick me" sign. These are what I mean by "potshots" when the teacher isn't looking. You want Eb to be nice? Stop poking him when he's quiet. >however, it was > to my mind refreshingly "good-natured". Rex -- Chris Gross is one of my best friends. I am also good friends with Jon Fetter. Although she is no longer on the List, I am actually *marrying* ex-Feg LJ Lindhurst. (Indeed, more of my actually "met in the flesh and hang out with them" friends used to be on this List, such as Scary Mary, Tim Reed, Bayard, etc.; but all have dropped off for various reasons.) I am sure that Chris or Jon and I could happily go a few rounds of "good-natured" buddying around, filled with all manner of in-jokes and backslapping and such. I think you are way off the mark if you'd like to hold up such behavior as "refreshingly good natured," and it certainly is not "debate." (Yeah, I know, you were kidding.) >But the potshots and > name-calling that've been slung my way aren't in mode of "debate" > either. I never said they were. I recognized them for what they were: put-downs. Don't try to score points by re-arranging the argument. >To be clearer: you and I, Quail, have had something in the > neighborhood of a debate; Eb and I have not. He kicks sand in my face This last time, because you've been sticking your tongue out at him every time you walk by the lifeguard stand! The last week of Rex posts have been filled with self-serving, whining, faux-martyr poses. You want to let this drop? Then let it drop! If Eb takes a shot at you again out of the blue, you can ignore him and let *him* look like the prat. > and I, somewhat understandably, don't like it much, and react. Wish I > didn't, since you and Eb obviously get your jollies out of watching me > lose it, I am relieved that someone has finally called you out in public, yeah. Your persistent and abundant self-referential posts are perfectly acceptable targets for cranky ridicule. Every Internet forum has its Bert and its Oscar the Grouch. >but as I've said-- you'll probably find this overdramatic, > but it's there-- I really don't understand the nature of cruelty and > it really does bug me, even in little ways. Man, how can you honestly call this "cruelty?" Your lack of scale, of relativity, is quite remarkable. You devalue the words you use by your relentless sense of self-importance. At worst, Eb's comments are "mean." he can be a big meany. Or a crank. Or a grouch. But cruel? Come on. Cruelty implies a power dynamic that just does not exist here. You are neither helpless or powerless or particularly vulnerable. This is an *Internet forum* populated by fans of a *musician.* It's not Abu Ghraib. >>> And it doesn't surprise me that Eb finds friendship off-putting. >> >> I think that's an interpretation quite skewed in your direction. > > And calling my behavior "nauseating", "pathetic", "mewling" etc. etc. > isn't? Friend Quail, you are truly showing some extraordinary > prejudice here. I think that some of Eb's words may be exaggerated, yeah. But he is calling your *behavior* "pathetic." And also, you are not really addressing my point. Just because Eb doesn't like *your* behavior does not give you grounds to suggest that he finds friendship off-putting. Several of us here think of ourselves as Eb's friends. I grant you, he may not value certain qualities of Internet forums such as harmony, tolerance, and grace; but that doesn't mean he dislikes the very notion of friendship. > Eb made it public by spilling his guts about it on list, which is You have a point: any public posting Eb makes is subject to public response. I have no problems with that. I just found your attack, delivered in a letter addressed to me, to be much more personal than anything Eb has thrown your way. That's all. > hypocritically the same kind of mode of address for which he routinely > castigates me. Actually, there is a difference. Eb's problem with you -- which reflects my own irritation with some of your posts -- concerns your frequent hijacking of threads initially unrelated to you, so you may use them to offer comments about yourself. I mean, I run a literature Web site; but I'm not tailgating on every other post just to toot my own horn! I find this kind of behavior distasteful. Harmless, but distasteful. Additionally, Eb's "personal" posts are usually posted from scratch -- read them or ignore them, they are usually his and his alone. You may not care about "Lawndart," but at least he's not turning the public space into a hall of mirrors. Note -- and this addresses some of your comments from the last two weeks -- no one here, including Eb, thinks that you should never talk about your private life. No one here thinks that if you are in, say, a band, that you should keep it a secret. Go ahead, post some MP3s, or a gig list. I think everyone is ok with that. The original issue here is the frequency of your posting, and the manner in which you elect to execute those posts. >> I'm not saying you can't. I for one found it a bit...precious, especially >> after what happened last week. And that's why I thought Eb's taunt was >> pretty much dead-on. First, you opened the door. Second, he called you out >> on a public behavior. > > Metaphysician, heal thyself. How can you bag me for getting personal > with Eb regarding his public behavor, and then laud him or at least > give him a pass for doing the same to me? I never said that wither of you were *not* making personal attacks. I said yours was "pretty personal." In other words, you didn't address a behavior he was exhibiting to *you* in context of the friction between the two of you; you went right for the jugular: "[women] who broke his poor heart because he creeped them the fuck out?" Man, I'd have a hard time conceiving of a more personal attack on someone than mocking their failed attempts to form romantic relationships. After all, it's not like you said, "I am uncomfortable with the way Eb discusses women/his relationships/his broken heart on the List." You showed a penchant for real nastiness, there. > Acknowledged, but I also never intended that statement to be taken as > anything other than a joke. Call it the ever familiar "tone problem" > if you want, but it was a joke. Man oh man, I am sick of people crying "tone problem" to hide their unwillingness to engage in some self-reflection. I call "Bullshit!" It's disingenuous. > Quail, do you truly contend that a person deserves abuse for > being/expressing himself if his personality happens to be subjectively > annoying to someone else? I do not consider Eb's posts "abuse." But to answer your question, if someone is consistently annoying to someone else in a public forum, I support the right of the annoyee to confront the annoyer within the acceptable boundaries of that forum. This does not mean that they can just go ape shit, but I don't think that Eb's barbs have been quite as apocalyptic as you (and a few others) think. >What you call "potshots" are to me attempts > to diffuse tension through humor. Again, and for the third time: I think you are being disingenuous. You keep calling your actions something they are not; at least Eb has the honestly to stand by his actions. - --Quail, moving further and further to the back of the bus with the smoking kids ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:54:39 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: a-Huh????????????? On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, The Great Quail wrote: > Boring or not, I'd like to continue this: Just out of curiosity..... Why?? To bring things back to music, I was wondering if anyone else on here has heard Sarah Lee Guthrie and Johnny Irion's new album, "Exploration," and if so, what they thought. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:01:20 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: a-Huh????????????? > Why?? Well, because this is a conversation that I feel has been brewing for a while, and involves several public figures on the List. Enough said? Upper right corner of your keyboard. Everyone's friend. - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:03:27 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: a-Huh????????????? On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, The Great Quail wrote: > > Why?? > > Well, because this is a conversation that I feel has been brewing for a > while, and involves several public figures on the List. Enough said? > > Upper right corner of your keyboard. Everyone's friend. Yeah, like I said, I'm getting rather tired of using it--but I will certainly continue to do so. I just wonder how many people on this list you think care about this. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:13:10 -0800 (PST) From: Dmitry Gokhman Subject: NEW on EZT: RH, Great American Music Hall, San Francisco 1988.7.28 (both shows/aud) Just uploaded this torrent http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=34458 Robyn Hitchcock Great American Music Hall San Francisco, California 1988.7.28 (both shows) Source: Original cassettes: Sony HF-S 90 (early show), TDK SA 90 (late show), recorded on a Sony portable recorder with built-in stereo mic (auto-levels, no Dolby). Transfer: Akai HX-1C > Creative Labs CT 5803 sound card / xwave 0.6 > manual split (audacity 1.0.0) > flac 1.1.0 Early show: Sometimes I Wish I Was A Pretty Girl Tonight One Long Pair Of Eyes Veins Of The Queen I Used To Say I Love You City Of Shame Raymond Chandler Evening Bass Agony Of Pleasure The Man Who Invented Himself Flavour Of Night Insect Mother Mr. Rock'n'roll My Wife And My Dead Wife Encore: Trash I Got A Message For You Late Show: A Globe Of Frogs Autumn Is Your Last Chance One Long Pair Of Eyes Veins Of The Queen I Got The Hots Superman Raymond Chandler Evening Bass Somewhere Apart Raining Twilight Coast Mr. Rock'n'roll My Wife And My Dead Wife Encore: Glass The Ghost In You Visions Of Johanna The Ghost In You (Psychedelic Furs) The Man With The Lightbulb Head If I Were A Priest Rain Notes: I was sitting with some friends (about half way from the stage, center) and blatantly plopped the recorder on the table, so modulo the fact that this was analog equipment and the various technical difficulties (see below), the overall sound quality is pretty decent. Some bad news. Firstly, the "genius" here didn't start the tape right away and fumbled with the machine during the intro, then sat transfixed until the tape clicked, so the 1st tape flip had to happen in the beginning of Flavour. Worst of all, the recorder fell off the table during the late show flip (right after Somewhere Apart) and never worked again properly. :( The recording after this tragedy is messed up by speed variations but is included here for historical reasons. Anyway, here it is, one of my all time favourite shows - - warts and all. - - buka __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #79 *******************************