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Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #52
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fegmaniax-digest        Tuesday, March 1 2005        Volume 14 : Number 052



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: This is where we separate the men from the faggots  ["Asshole Muthafuc]
  Re: This is where we separate the men from the faggots  ["Brian Nupp" <nig]
  NEW on EZT: Grant Lee Phillips and Robyn Hitchcock - June 20, 2000 - Sweetwater Cafe, Mill Valley, CA  []
  Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [The Great Quail <quai]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Rex Broome <rexbr]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [The Great Quail <]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Jeff <jeffreyw2fs]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [The Great Quail <]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Rex Broome <rexbr]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Jeff <jeffreyw2fs]
  Robert Vickers, Jetset, Yep Roc and The Go-Betweens  ["Bachman, Michael" <]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Benjamin Lukoff <]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Benjamin Lukoff <]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Jeff <jeffreyw2fs]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Benjamin Lukoff <]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Rex Broome <rexbr]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Jeff <jeffreyw2fs]
  horny drunken clowns with guns not allowed!  [Jeff <jeffreyw2fs.j@gmail.co]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Tom Clark <tclark]
  Random impotent grumbling                     [Eb <elbroome@earthlink.net>]
  Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!  [Rex Broome <rexbr]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:54:05 -0800
From: "Asshole Muthafucka" <asshole@feedthefish.org>
Subject: Re: This is where we separate the men from the faggots

for marc (or anyone else planning to attend the largo shows):  "These shows
will be request-driven. Please email in your requests or hand them in at
the door."  (so says the museum.)  wanna collect a list, from us all, to
hand in at the door?  my request is "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away".
(would request "Autumn Sea", but i guess i've given up trying.)


<Was Million Dollar Baby that good?>

well, *Mystic River* sucked about 9,000 different kinds of ass.  so, i'm
guessing that the answer to your question is very "no".


<So how come nobody got their titties all twisted up over this subject
line, given the crap that Lauren took for using a similar term a few weeks
back?  Just because we know what to expect from Eddie?>

and probably have learnt by now to not egg me on.


<It's a line from the film, from the hard-man detective. As is the changing
colostomy bag line that Eddie used.>

true dat.  but...


<I thought it was just a reference to exactly that thread, intended as a
minor provocation/joke.>

...true dat, too.


<Or more hopefully, the discussion that spun out of that has shown that
that kind of PC over sensitivity is just stupid.>

word.  count me very much in the "sticks and stones" school.


<Not to mention that some of us check this stuff at work (though not
today). It'd be one thing if it was good old-fash-motherfucking-ioned
swearing and shit, but epithets on a screen where people can come by and
see "What are you looking at?">

i've no sympathy for people who read personal e-mail at work.  maybe i
ought, but i just don't.  i think good ol' "dot-chris" gillis had the right
attitude in <URL:http://www.fegmania.org/archives/fegmaniax/1998/v07.n284>:


- ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:08:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Condiment Spice <chris@unr.edu>
Subject: Re: all the godforsaken patriotic-types ought to enjoy this

On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Capitalism Blows wrote:

> <http://awful.rotten.com/july4th/flag_a01a.html>
> 

Dammit, Tews! You're gonna get us working shits in seriuos trouble one
day. And, all I be able to do is laugh.

.chris
- ------------------------------


amazingly, that picture is still online at the same URL!!


in other newz, i was walking along today listening to *Animals* in my
headphones, when some seagulls started squawking behind and to the left of
me.  for a good five seconds, i thought that it was part of the recording,
and i was near to shitting my pants that i'd not noticed it before.  still
can't believe how much it sounded like it was coming from the headphones.


KEN "No living person yet knows it, but the portal to" THE KENSTER "is
opening up once again"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:56:03 -0500
From: "Brian Nupp" <nightshadecat@mailbolt.com>
Subject: Re: This is where we separate the men from the faggots

>Or more hopefully, the discussion that spun out of that has shown
>that
>that kind of PC over sensitivity is just stupid.  Nothing bugs me
>more
>than people getting offended on my behalf.  Are there any other
>current queer fegs?
>
>dykely yours,
>Nora

Cool. I hope it's still ok I have a crush on you. ;)
- -Nuppy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:18:45 -0500
From: jeff albertson <woj@smoe.org>
Subject: NEW on EZT: Grant Lee Phillips and Robyn Hitchcock - June 20, 2000 - Sweetwater Cafe, Mill Valley, CA

http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=30406&hit=1

>A new torrent has been uploaded to EZT.
>
>Torrent: 30406
>Title: Grant Lee Phillips and Robyn Hitchcock - June 20, 2000 - Sweetwater 
>Cafe, Mill Valley, CA
>Size: 685.29 MB
>Category: Acoustic
>Uploaded by: woj
>
>Description
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Grant Lee Hitchcock
>Grant Lee Phillips & Robyn Hitchcock
>June 22, 2000
>Sweetwater Cafe
>Mill Valley, CA
>
>Source: CSC > D3 > Maxwell XLII C110
>Transfer: CS Master > TC-RX370 > Soundmax > Cool Edit 2000 > CD Wave > flac
>
>Many thanks to KEN "A Wonderful Human Being" THE KENSTER for loan of the
>master tapes!
>
>Many apologies to Mike for the long wait.
>
>Disc 1 (Main Set):
>
>01. intro
>02. Cynthia Mask
>03. Squit
>04. banter
>05. Queen Elvis
>06. banter
>07. Heavenly
>08. banter
>09. I Feel Beautiful
>10. banter
>11. Lonesome Serenade
>12. banter
>13. I Saw Nick Drake
>14. Mockingbirds
>15. Gene Hackman [slight cut due to do battery change]
>16. banter
>17. St. Expedite
>18. banter
>19. Trams Of Old London [tape flip]
>20. banter
>21. Folsom Prison Blues Johnny Cash] /
>     Ring Of Fire [June Carter/Merle Kilgore]
>22. banter
>23. Honey Don't Think
>24. banter
>25. Antwoman
>26. Fuzzy
>
>Disc 2 (Encores):
>
>First Encore:
>01. banter
>02. Happiness
>03. Rock Stool [improv]
>04. Flavour Of Night
>05. banter
>06. Harper Valley PTA [improv]
>07. Harper Valley PTA (in G) [improv] /
>     Daydream [Lovin' Spoonfuls]
>08. Don't Look Down
>09. banter
>10. Tangled Up In Blue [Bawb]
>11. All I Have To Do Is Dream [Everly Brothers] [tape flip]
>Second Encore:
>12. applause
>13. banter
>14. Flamin' Shoe
>15. banter
>16. Mighty Joe Moon
>17. banter
>18. Clean Steve
>19. Across The Universe [The Beatles]
>20. applause
>Third Encore:
>21. Sound And Vision [David Bowie] /
>     Rock Your Baby [George McCrae] /
>     When You're In Love With A Beautiful Woman [Dr. Hook] /
>     Kung Fu Fighting [Carl Douglas]
>22. I've Got A Feeling [The Beatles] /
>     Tracks Of My Tears [Smokey Robinson]
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:29:29 -0500
From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
Subject: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

Rex and Jeff:

>> So how come nobody got their titties all twisted up over
>> this subject line, given the crap that Lauren took for
>> using a similar term a few weeks back?
> 
> Not to mention that some of us check this stuff at work
> (though not today).

Because Eddie really means it, see. I know the guy, and he *hates* gay
people. Why, I've seen him actually cruise up and down Chelsea, dressed in
little tight shorts, waving around a bootleg copy of "Showgirls," and
randomly installing track lighting -- all just to win their trust before
hitting them on the head with one of those skinny yellow-colored
whiffle-ball bats. He's really funny that way, is Eddie. And man, you should
*see* what he has to say about the colored folk!

Eddie:

> well, *Mystic River* sucked about 9,000 different kinds of ass.

There are 9000 different kinds of ass to suck? Damn, I had better catch up.

> <Or more hopefully, the discussion that spun out of that has shown that
> that kind of PC over sensitivity is just stupid.>
> 
> word.  count me very much in the "sticks and stones" school.

Man, I'm with Eddie on this one. The more PC this List gets, the more I feel
like tracking mud all over the carpets.

"SOMEWHERE inside a glowing kernel of peace is an irritant -- an inflamed
seed that messes up the organism...."

- --Quail  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 07:51:47 -0800
From: Rex Broome <rexbroome@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

Quail:
> Man, I'm with Eddie on this one. The more PC this List gets, the more I feel
> like tracking mud all over the carpets.

Well, I wasn't advocating anyone complaining about the subject
heading, just wondering out loud why nobody did.  And admittedly
missing the point.  You cocksuckers won't see me shovelin' that
faggoty PC shit any time soon.  Bitch.

- -Rex

PS: a typo originally rendered one of the words above "cocksucklers". 
Anyone have a use for such a word?  Shame to waste it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:56:18 -0500
From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

Rex asks,

> PS: a typo originally rendered one of the words above "cocksucklers".
> Anyone have a use for such a word?  Shame to waste it.

I think that's what Deadwood's Al Swearinger calls little babies....

- --Quail, always HBO's bitch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:19:12 -0600
From: Jeff <jeffreyw2fs.j@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:29:29 -0500, The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com> wrote:

> > <Or more hopefully, the discussion that spun out of that has shown that
> > that kind of PC over sensitivity is just stupid.>
> >
> > word.  count me very much in the "sticks and stones" school.
> 
> Man, I'm with Eddie on this one. The more PC this List gets, the more I feel
> like tracking mud all over the carpets.

Okay, we're going meta now.

One thing about the "PC" label that irks me is this: if we were
talking about something completely unrelated to any sort of political
situation - say, someone on the list who shall remain nameless and
their habit of publicly referring to me as "Poopyface," and I said,
hey, it bugs me when you call me Poopyface, could you stop? - most
people (though, I'm guessing, not Eddie...) would say, oh, I didn't
know that bugged you, sorry - I promise to call you "Mr. Sniffy
Drawers" instead.

But the moment the issue enters into the political arena - suddenly
people feel all self-righteous, either about not being "PC" or,
admittedly, about the issue itself.

Really, though - and I'm speaking generally now, not about this list -
I'm not sure why it's that difficult to not go out of one's way to
annoy other people for no reason.

It also bothers me because the "PC" label - especially its more
ridiculous and often fictitious manifestations (i.e., "vertically
challenged," which no one in the history of the universe has ever used
non-facetiously) - is among the chief means by which the right shifts
the terms of the debate. Let even the most clearly obnoxious speech
come out, even when it actually is intended to offend (local example:
right-winger radio ranter referring to Mexican-Americans as
"wetbacks") - and when anyone says anything against it, accuse them of
being "PC" and overly sensitive.

Just how insensitive does one have to be to not be accused of being
"overly sensitive"? Or are we all supposed to subscribe to some macho
hard-knocks school of language, in which we're encouraged to speak to
one another like drill sergeants to recruits in order to "toughen us
up"?

I repeat the "going meta" phrase - because none of this is really
about any posts on this list, just the general tendency to use the
description "PC" to trivialize and deflate issues.

(What's funny is that a few of us are having a discussion elsewhere
wherein I *am* recognizing that you can't pussyfoot around every last
little comma and phrase, because no matter what, *someone*'s going to
be offended; and that one shouldn't jump to conclusions about a
speaker just because their notion of careful language isn't your own.
That's not, though, the same thing as dismissing out of court the
entire notion that language does matter.)


- -- 

...Jeff 

The Architectural Dance Society
http://spanghew.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:03:32 -0500
From: The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

Jeff writes,
 
> It also bothers me because the "PC" label - especially its more
> ridiculous and often fictitious manifestations (i.e., "vertically
> challenged," which no one in the history of the universe has ever used
> non-facetiously) - is among the chief means by which the right shifts
> the terms of the debate.

Most of the ridiculousness I've seen in the PC arena radiates from the Left.
The Right just eagerly use it as fodder, such as in your "wetback" example.
Believe me, I've worked in education all my life -- 90% of the time, the PC
Thought Police are stepping in from the left side of the reality studio.

The Right, however, are masters of a far more insidious method of thought
control -- they currently define the very language of discourse itself, such
as "War on Terrorism" and such. And don't get me started on mainstream
media.... 

> I repeat the "going meta" phrase - because none of this is really
> about any posts on this list, just the general tendency to use the
> description "PC" to trivialize and deflate issues.

Well, I for one feel that the List has become more easily offended lately.
It's been pretty left-wing and liberal elitist for a long time, but over the
last year or so, I've seen more PC hand-wringing. And I have a feeling most
of the people taking offense are white, heterosexual males of European
descent! So it comes across as somewhat sanctimonious or even occasionally
pompous. 

I mean, we're all Robyn fans, right? It's not like Robyn Hitchcock is
Natalie Merchant here.

> That's not, though, the same thing as dismissing out of court the
> entire notion that language does matter.)

No one said here that language does not *matter.* I for one just get tired
of the self-righteousness, the patronizing, the PC-anxiety. Not that it's
really too bad -- but there are traces of it....

- --Quail

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Great Quail, Keeper of the Libyrinth:
http://www.TheModernWord.com

"All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each
event -- in the living act, the undoubted deed -- there, some unknown
but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from
behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask!
How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall?"
     --Herman Melville, "Moby Dick"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:11:57 -0800
From: Rex Broome <rexbroome@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

Jeffrey:
> It also bothers me because the "PC" label - especially its more
> ridiculous and often fictitious manifestations (i.e., "vertically
> challenged," which no one in the history of the universe has ever used
> non-facetiously) - is among the chief means by which the right shifts
> the terms of the debate. 

Yeah.  Exactly, and word and whatnot.

It's also a really outdated bugaboo.  As far as I can tell the whole
legitmate PC debate barely made it out of the late '80's, by the end
of which the term had become the new code for "pinko commie" and
nobody on God's Green Earth would apply the label to themselves.  Most
of the ways in which the term is used by right wingers these days
don't even make sense (how anti-smoking laws could be "PC" is beyond
me, and how just saying bad words is supposed to combat the thought
police is a true mystery, since everyone knows lefties love
obscenity).

- -Rex

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:21:10 -0600
From: Jeff <jeffreyw2fs.j@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:11:57 -0800, Rex Broome <rexbroome@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's also a really outdated bugaboo.  As far as I can tell the whole
> legitmate PC debate barely made it out of the late '80's, by the end
> of which the term had become the new code for "pinko commie" and
> nobody on God's Green Earth would apply the label to themselves.  Most
> of the ways in which the term is used by right wingers these days
> don't even make sense (how anti-smoking laws could be "PC" is beyond
> me, and how just saying bad words is supposed to combat the thought
> police is a true mystery, since everyone knows lefties love
> obscenity).

Fuck yeah.

I think part of what's always been amusing about this to me is that,
in the pinko-commie cell I lived in during the mid-eighties, "PC" was
only ever used as semi-ironic criticism of the excessively doctrinaire
among us. In other words, no one has ever used the phrase to describe
anyone or anything in *positive* terms. It's always been a
negative...even among those who, supposedly, subscribe to it. Except
early '70s Maoists, perhaps.

Back to forbidden things: how come so little talk about the
live-with-band show that odd, monobrowed, tall British guy did a month
or so ago? Was it the rock and yea verily the roll, or what?

- -- 

...Jeff 

The Architectural Dance Society
http://spanghew.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:53:35 -0500
From: "Bachman, Michael" <Michael.Bachman@fanucrobotics.com>
Subject: Robert Vickers, Jetset, Yep Roc and The Go-Betweens

Robert Vickers
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 08:35 pm:

Jetset is on what you might call hiatus. They should be back later in the
year. I left there in November to start my own PR company.

If Yep Rock put up the cash I would think the band would do some kind of US
tour. Probably just a few major cities. There's really not much point in
playing the smaller markets anymore. Robert's got small children, I'm sure
he'd much rather be with them than in Baltimore losing money.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:58:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Benjamin Lukoff <blukoff@alvord.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Jeff wrote:

> One thing about the "PC" label that irks me is this: if we were talking
> about something completely unrelated to any sort of political situation
> - say, someone on the list who shall remain nameless and their habit of
> publicly referring to me as "Poopyface," and I said, hey, it bugs me
> when you call me Poopyface, could you stop? - most people (though, I'm
> guessing, not Eddie...) would say, oh, I didn't know that bugged you,
> sorry - I promise to call you "Mr. Sniffy Drawers" instead.
> But the moment the issue enters into the political arena - suddenly
> people feel all self-righteous, either about not being "PC" or,
> admittedly, about the issue itself.

Perhaps the difference is in the first case you are basically telling the
person to not call *you* Poopyface. You aren't telling him not to call
anyone *else* Poopyface.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:10:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Benjamin Lukoff <blukoff@alvord.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, The Great Quail wrote:

> Most of the ridiculousness I've seen in the PC arena radiates from the Left.
> The Right just eagerly use it as fodder, such as in your "wetback" example.
> Believe me, I've worked in education all my life -- 90% of the time, the PC
> Thought Police are stepping in from the left side of the reality studio.

Good book on the subject of groups from both sides trying to interfere in
the educational arena: Diane Ravitch's "The Language Police"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400030641

> The Right, however, are masters of a far more insidious method of thought
> control -- they currently define the very language of discourse itself, such
> as "War on Terrorism" and such. And don't get me started on mainstream
> media....

Who gave the Right the power to do that, though?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:49:29 -0600
From: Jeff <jeffreyw2fs.j@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:58:51 -0800 (PST), Benjamin Lukoff
<blukoff@alvord.com> wrote:

> Perhaps the difference is in the first case you are basically telling the
> person to not call *you* Poopyface. You aren't telling him not to call
> anyone *else* Poopyface.

And usually, no one is "telling" anyone else what to do - they're
merely noting that plenty of people get offended being referred to as,
say, poopyfaces. In another world, recognizing that, and following
through upon its implications, would be merely politeness, or having
some concern for the feelings of others.

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:03:32 -0500, The Great Quail <quail@libyrinth.com> wrote:

> Most of the ridiculousness I've seen in the PC arena radiates from the Left.
> The Right just eagerly use it as fodder, such as in your "wetback" example.
> Believe me, I've worked in education all my life -- 90% of the time, the PC
> Thought Police are stepping in from the left side of the reality studio.

Well, I've worked in education all my life as well - most of the
"ridiculousness" happens when right-wingers blow up some inevitable
excesses of eager and sometimes naive twenty-year-olds into insidious
plots. (See, for example, nearly every canonical early-90s PC
story...) (And if insidious plots is what you want, a lot more
nominally-student right-wing groups are heavily funded by mainstream
wingers than left groups are...)

While I'm at it: the mini-industry that sprung up then about "tenured
radicals" also had at its root the assumption that college students
were so very impressionable that the scary radical professors would
inevitably indoctrinate and corrupt them. As someone who tries to
teach those same college students daily, let me say: they're nowhere
near so pliable, not even when it's mere facts about, say, comma usage
that I'm trying to squeeze into their brains.

> last year or so, I've seen more PC hand-wringing. And I have a feeling most
> of the people taking offense are white, heterosexual males of European
> descent! So it comes across as somewhat sanctimonious or even occasionally
> pompous.

Hmm... This, along with Benjamin's comment, seems to assume that it's
only legit to speak if you *are* that which you speak of. Which (when
it comes from the right) is pretty ironic - rather lefty
identity-politics, thematically.

Although nowhere near as ironic as the right attempting to pillory
Michael Moore because - horrors! - he's earned a lot of money and
lives in an expensive apt. in Manhattan. Apparently his crime is that,
having gotten rich, he didn't instantly become a Republican. (Note:
I'm not saying there aren't aspects of Moore that are pillory-worthy,
only that that accusation...of, uh, hypocrisy? - is pretty silly.)

It's also amusing when such criticism comes from people who call
themselves Christians - since looking out for those less advantaged
than yourself would seem to be one theme at the core of that religion.

Really, I find it amusing - or questionable - when someone is so
invested not in the mere right to say "faggot" but in the *principle*
that it's somehow salutary to do so. Why? I mean, seriously: the left,
or whatever portion of it that's supposedly manning (sorry:
personning) the PC barricades, is hardly glorying in its worldwide
triumph and domination of all politics and media right now,
particularly in the US.

(Might as well be clear: I'm not accusing either Benjamin or that
Quail character of being a right-wing stooge - I'm talking about the
argument as it's generally presented.)

- -- 

...Mr. Sniffy Drawers

The Architectural Dance Society
http://spanghew.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:30:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Benjamin Lukoff <blukoff@alvord.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Jeff wrote:

> On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:58:51 -0800 (PST), Benjamin Lukoff
> <blukoff@alvord.com> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps the difference is in the first case you are basically telling the
> > person to not call *you* Poopyface. You aren't telling him not to call
> > anyone *else* Poopyface.
>
> And usually, no one is "telling" anyone else what to do - they're
> merely noting that plenty of people get offended being referred to as,
> say, poopyfaces. In another world, recognizing that, and following
> through upon its implications, would be merely politeness, or having
> some concern for the feelings of others.

I don't know if it's "merely noting," though. Some people get pretty
worked up when they're "merely noting" things. I also wonder where they're
getting their data. I remember when "Oriental" was still generally
acceptable, and I (being of that ilk, partially) found nothing wrong with
it. Neither did many others--you could tell by the many stores and
restaurants that incorporated the word in their names. Suddenly it seemed
the word was declared offensive, and now my sister won't take free
calendars from the Korean grocery because they continue to call themselves
"Aurora Oriental Grocery." Just who *is* offended in this case, really?

> Hmm... This, along with Benjamin's comment, seems to assume that it's
> only legit to speak if you *are* that which you speak of. Which (when
> it comes from the right) is pretty ironic - rather lefty
> identity-politics, thematically.

I think it's always legit to *speak*, but how I take what you say may very
well depend a bit on who you are...

> (Might as well be clear: I'm not accusing either Benjamin or that
> Quail character of being a right-wing stooge - I'm talking about the
> argument as it's generally presented.)

Good to know, because that's certainly not what I am :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:31:12 -0800
From: Rex Broome <rexbroome@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

Hmmm.  Well, probably nobody's gonna be interested in naming names,
but who's supposedly gone all thought-policey on a regular basis on
the feg-list?  Some of the political discussions get a little
didactic, but I don't remember anyone being shut down for
inappropriate language or anything, other than once recently.  Maybe
I'm just missing some kind of unpleasant undercurrent.

- -Rex

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:03:22 -0600
From: Jeff <jeffreyw2fs.j@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:31:12 -0800, Rex Broome <rexbroome@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmm.  Well, probably nobody's gonna be interested in naming names,
> but who's supposedly gone all thought-policey on a regular basis on
> the feg-list?  Some of the political discussions get a little
> didactic, but I don't remember anyone being shut down for
> inappropriate language or anything, other than once recently. 

"Once recently"? See this is the funny thing: no one was shut down at
all. One person used the word "faggy"; another person expressed
surprise that someone was still using that word; the discussion then
went to a general one about the word and its meaning & history. No one
said anything like, hey you, get the hell off the list! Hell, no one
even said anything mean (I checked the archives).

But what happens is, the disagreement, and the disapproval, get
misremembered as "shutting down" or "censoring" - and so it's off to
the races we go.

Me, I think it was just a typo - "feggy"!

However, it is categorically forbidden on this list to express any
sort of approval of clowns..

- -- 

...Jeff 

The Architectural Dance Society
http://spanghew.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:07:53 -0600
From: Jeff <jeffreyw2fs.j@gmail.com>
Subject: horny drunken clowns with guns not allowed!

As an aside: seems like more people are extremely "sensitive" about
someone saying something about their language than people are about
the language others use. That is, what stirs the poop isn't someone
using items from the forbidden lexicon; it's being called on it.
Perhaps the argument shouldn't be, don't be so sensitive about people
using words you don't like; it should be, don't be so sensitive about
someone pointing out the implications of your words.

You know...we are all victims of your tendency to claim victimization!

- -- 

...Jeff 

The Architectural Dance Society
http://spanghew.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:45:52 -0800
From: Tom Clark <tclark@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

On Mar 1, 2005, at 1:03 PM, Jeff wrote:

> However, it is categorically forbidden on this list to express any
> sort of approval of clowns..
>

Clowny Clown Clown
I Hated That Clown
     - Crispin Hellion Glover

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:46:38 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: Eb <elbroome@earthlink.net>
Subject: Random impotent grumbling

I have been sick since Friday afternoon, thanks to whatever plague-soaked fan breathed on me during the Paul Westerberg show.

I haven't been able to run since Thursday as a result (including missing a big local race on Saturday), and this is the sickest I've been in at least three years (I know, because I started running in March '02 and had only been measurably sick once in the entire time since).

Grumble.
Grumble.
Grumble.


Grumble.


Also, I've been having horrendous trouble sending email through Earthlink, for reasons I cannot explain. The only way I can do it is through the Earthlink website, as I'm doing now.

Current threads are a tad on the "darling" side. Please improve.



Grumble.

At least the rain finally stopped.

Eb

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:02:36 -0800
From: Rex Broome <rexbroome@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuck you, Jeff's faggy asshole kitten-raping boss!

> "Once recently"? See this is the funny thing: no one was shut down at
> all. One person used the word "faggy"; another person expressed
> surprise that someone was still using that word; the discussion then
> went to a general one about the word and its meaning & history. No one
> said anything like, hey you, get the hell off the list! Hell, no one
> even said anything mean (I checked the archives).

Which kinda proves my point... the prevailing PC-ification of the
feg-list is overstated at best.  And kinda proves your point, since my
sloppy use of language didn't really achieve much.  Alrighty, then.

- -Rex

------------------------------

End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #52
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