From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #33 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, February 7 2005 Volume 14 : Number 033 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Makin' a list... [Capuchin ] Re: Zoidberg's in charge now! [Capuchin ] Re: with a little luck [Benjamin Lukoff ] RE: Makin' a list... ["Brian Huddell" ] Re: walking on sunshine [] RE: Makin' a list... [Capuchin ] Re: Makin' a list... [Jeff ] Re: Speaking of premature deaths... ["Gene Hopstetter, Jr." ] Re: robyn tour dates [Dolph Chaney ] RE: robyn tour dates ["Bachman, Michael" ] RE: Makin' a list... [Dolph Chaney ] Re: that damn list [James Dignan ] RE: Makin' a list... [Dr John Halewood ] Re: that damn list [Tom Clark ] Re: that damn list [Eb ] Re: that damn list [Eb ] Re: that damn list [Rex Broome ] Re: that damn list [Tom Clark ] robyn tour with clapton and collins ["michael wells" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:45:31 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: RE: Makin' a list... On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, Brian Huddell wrote: > I'm sure if you had enough information you'd come to see it Jeme's way. > /snark Or, of course, I could need some more information to come to his way of thinking... or we're both wrong and ignorant and could use a good schooling. Just to make something perfectly clear, Rex had stated quite clearly that he was less familiar with They Might Be Giants later work, so the ignorance was self-confessed and uncontroversial. As for Bowie, I'm ignorant of most, I'm sure, of his catalog. It also annoys the crap out of me, so I'm not too inclined to do any research. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:46:34 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Zoidberg's in charge now! On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, Vendren wrote: >> Futurama rules! > > Funniest show I've ever seen. And people don't believe me when I tell > them that some episodes were so touching they had me all watery-eyed. > Really. I got choked up at the end of The Luck Of The Fryrish... but I have well-established sensitivity to that kind of thing. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:46:42 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: with a little luck On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, Vendren wrote: > Palle (who holds the unpopular view that McCartney's solo career is stronger > than Lennon's) McCartney's career was much the strongest of any former Beatle. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:17:57 -0600 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: Makin' a list... > > I'm sure if you had enough information you'd come to see it > Jeme's way. > > /snark > > Or, of course, I could need some more information to come to > his way of thinking... or we're both wrong and ignorant and could use a good > schooling. Or maybe there's no absolute truth to apply when it comes to art. But honestly, that was a refreshing nod to relativism from Jeme, or something, I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:01:19 -0500 From: Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Wed Feb 2 17:54 , Rex Broome rexbroome@gmail.com> sent: >Usually at this point I say something about boobs and then greg says >something about ass, and we've all seen that way too often... can >anyone help me think of a new approach? Threads about wanking need >not apply. i'm not gonna say anything about jews or asses ever again probably, but i would contribute to a feglist music compilation. gSs - ---- Msg sent via WebMail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:13:16 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: RE: Makin' a list... On Sun, 6 Feb 2005, Brian Huddell wrote: >>> I'm sure if you had enough information you'd come to see it Jeme's >>> way. >>> /snark >> Or, of course, I could need some more information to come to his way of >> thinking... or we're both wrong and ignorant and could use a good >> schooling. > > Or maybe there's no absolute truth to apply when it comes to art. I had this discussion with my housemate this afternoon. I think I need to make it clear that the VALUE of the art is, of course, purely subjective. However, whether or not the work is a work of art is not. One can assess whether or not the work displays mastery of the craft and whether or not the work is evocative. There's no doubt that The Beatles, to take a recent example, showed a mastery of their craft and (for those who can stomach it), it's evocative of deep emotion. I still find it mostly trite, derivative, and boring. > But honestly, that was a refreshing nod to relativism from Jeme, or > something, I guess. What do you mean by "nod to relativism"? I still think relativism is just an excuse to be lazy and avoid any meaningful human progress through permanent conflict resolution and mutual agreement. If we disagree, we could, in fact, both be wrong, but that doesn't excuse either of us from seeking the truth... hopefully together. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:20:31 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Makin' a list... On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:13:16 -0800 (PST), Capuchin wrote: > However, whether or not the work is a work of art is not [subjective]. One can assess > whether or not the work displays mastery of the craft and whether or not > the work is evocative. But what "the craft" is changes over time. No one needed to know how to write well for the saxophone before the saxophone existed, for instance - and it probably isn't necessary for a rock musician to know classical orchestration, nor a classical composer to know electronic rhythm programming. But what *constitutes* good writing for the saxophone, or good programming, is an aesthetic judgment as much as "is this music any good?" is. Or to take another example: James Brown is a good soul singer. By the craft standards of, say, opera, he's not a good singer at all. But those craft standards don't exist in some blue empyrean; they are derived from performances. In other words, they're aesthetic judgments. And "evocative" is wholly subjective: your "evocative" might be my "prefab" and vice versa. > > There's no doubt that The Beatles, to take a recent example, showed a > mastery of their craft and (for those who can stomach it), it's evocative > of deep emotion. I still find it mostly trite, derivative, and boring. Just out of curiosity, derivative of what? It's hard to hear the Beatles new now, of course. And some of their fans exaggerate their innovativeness and overlook that of their peers (which innovation the Beatles themselves often acknowledged). > What do you mean by "nod to relativism"? I still think relativism is just > an excuse to be lazy and avoid any meaningful human progress through > permanent conflict resolution and mutual agreement. Relativism can be laziness, sure - but certainly so can its opposite. It would be helpful, though, if you defined what you mean by "relativism" - and what you propose in its stead. (Me, I'm dubious of th phrase "permanent conflict resolution": I think that there just are conflicting interests in the world, and the best we can do is mitigate the conflict - generally better and less lethal if someone's not starving or humiliated.) - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:32:56 -0600 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: Speaking of premature deaths... > From: Eb > Subject: Speaking of premature deaths... > > ...here is the AllMusic bio of "Mayhem." ...and every reason to believe that some people take Dungeons and Dragons WAY too seriously. And to think I had a Level 10 Paladin named Grishnackh in 8th grade, but I didn't eat the Dungeon Master's head. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:54:50 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Makin' a list... > Jeff wrote: > > Because I'm feeling mean today, how about: A List of > > Musicians Who Should've Died to Spare Us the Awful Music > > They Put Out After Having Done Some Good Stuff? > > > > My first four nominees? > > > > Stevie Wonder, Rod Stewart, Phil Collins, and the members > > of Jefferson Airplane. > > Funny, I thought doing this morning before I left for home. > > I would argue that Rod Stewart was always absolute shit -- > a raspier Michael Bolton with even more ludicrous hair. > > Eric Clapton has to be the head of my list for this. The > various [Jefferson] Starship permutations certainly > qualify, at least on a corporate level if not actually > having Slick, Balin, Kantner, etc, their maker. I always thought Eric needed a stronger player in his 1974 and beyond bands that would have pushed him more in the studio and even live. Clapton was always pushed by a Bruce, Baker, Winwood, Delaney Bramlett, or Duane Allman to greater heights in the 1966 to 1970 period. By himself without a stronger person in the band, he got too lazy in the studio. I saw him twice live. He was great in 1975 when he toured with Santana. He was pretty mediocre a couple of years later. Did anybody pick up the Roger Waters album that Clapton played on? Is it any good? Michael B. NP Stan Getz - Cafe Montmartre ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:08:46 -0500 From: bisontentacle Subject: robyn tour dates the latest tour dates from yeproc includes several additions we didn't already know about: TH 03.03.05 Great American Music Hall San Francisco, CA SA 03.05.05 Crocodile Cafe Seattle, WA TU 03.08.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! Los Angeles, CA WE 03.09.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! Los Angeles, CA TH 03.10.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! Los Angeles, CA SU 03.13.05 Club Congress Tucson, AZ TH 03.17.05 Antone's Americana Music Association Showcase at SxSW 2005! Austin, TX MO 03.21.05 Pour House Music Hall Raleigh, NC WE 03.23.05 Black Cat Washington, DC FR 03.25.05 Southpaw Brooklyn, NY SA 03.26.05 Maxwells Hoboken, NJ MO 03.28.05 Iron Horse Music Hall Northampton, MA TU 03.29.05 TT the Bear's Boston, MA TH 03.31.05 Schubas Chicago, IL FR 04.01.05 Schubas Chicago, IL SU 04.03.05 Duncan Hall Lafayette, IN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:53:47 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: robyn tour dates Yay! His bad experience with merch personnel last time didn't sour him on Schuba's! - ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:08:46 -0500 >From: bisontentacle >Subject: robyn tour dates >To: the big Ebowski , fegmaniax- announce@smoe.org, robynhitchcockclub@yahoogroups.com, vegetablefriends@yahoogroups.com > >the latest tour dates from yeproc http://yeproc.com/artist_info.php? artistId=171&page=tourdates > >includes several additions we didn't already know about: > >TH 03.03.05 Great American Music Hall San Francisco, CA >SA 03.05.05 Crocodile Cafe Seattle, WA >TU 03.08.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! Los Angeles, CA >WE 03.09.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! Los Angeles, CA >TH 03.10.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! Los Angeles, CA >SU 03.13.05 Club Congress Tucson, AZ >TH 03.17.05 Antone's Americana Music Association Showcase at SxSW 2005! Austin, TX >MO 03.21.05 Pour House Music Hall Raleigh, NC >WE 03.23.05 Black Cat Washington, DC >FR 03.25.05 Southpaw Brooklyn, NY >SA 03.26.05 Maxwells Hoboken, NJ >MO 03.28.05 Iron Horse Music Hall Northampton, MA >TU 03.29.05 TT the Bear's Boston, MA >TH 03.31.05 Schubas Chicago, IL >FR 04.01.05 Schubas Chicago, IL >SU 04.03.05 Duncan Hall Lafayette, IN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:25:29 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: robyn tour dates Please say yes to Michigan! It will be 3 years since the Soft Boys were in Detroit by the time the tour hits the Midwest. Michael B. NP Traffic - Traffic > -----Original Message----- > From: Dolph Chaney [mailto:dolphmusic@rcn.com] > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 12:54 PM > To: bisontentacle; the big Ebowski; fegmaniax-announce@smoe.org; > robynhitchcockclub@yahoogroups.com; vegetablefriends@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: robyn tour dates > > > Yay! His bad experience with merch personnel last time > didn't sour him on Schuba's! > > > ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:08:46 -0500 > >From: bisontentacle > >Subject: robyn tour dates > >To: the big Ebowski , fegmaniax- > announce@smoe.org, robynhitchcockclub@yahoogroups.com, > vegetablefriends@yahoogroups.com > > > >the latest tour dates from yeproc >http://yeproc.com/artist_info.php? > artistId=171&page=tourdates > > >includes several additions we didn't already know about: > > > >TH 03.03.05 Great American Music Hall San Francisco, CA > >SA 03.05.05 Crocodile Cafe Seattle, WA > >TU 03.08.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! > Los Angeles, CA > >WE 03.09.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! > Los Angeles, CA > >TH 03.10.05 Cafe Largo solo show - all audience requests! > Los Angeles, CA > >SU 03.13.05 Club Congress Tucson, AZ > >TH 03.17.05 Antone's Americana Music Association Showcase at > SxSW 2005! Austin, TX > >MO 03.21.05 Pour House Music Hall Raleigh, NC > >WE 03.23.05 Black Cat Washington, DC > >FR 03.25.05 Southpaw Brooklyn, NY > >SA 03.26.05 Maxwells Hoboken, NJ > >MO 03.28.05 Iron Horse Music Hall Northampton, MA > >TU 03.29.05 TT the Bear's Boston, MA > >TH 03.31.05 Schubas Chicago, IL > >FR 04.01.05 Schubas Chicago, IL > >SU 04.03.05 Duncan Hall Lafayette, IN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:10:35 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Clapton & Waters > Did anybody pick up the Roger Waters album that Clapton played on? > Is it any good? Yeah -- "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking." I like it a lot -- if you did "The Final Cut," chances are you'll dig this. Too bad the idiots censored the cover, though. "There were Arabs with knives at the foot of the bed...RIGHT AT THE FOOT OF THE BED!!!!" - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:33:55 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: RE: Makin' a list... >From: "Bachman, Michael" > I always thought Eric needed a stronger player in his 1974 and beyond >bands that would have pushed him more in the studio and even live. >Clapton was always pushed by a Bruce, Baker, Winwood, Delaney Bramlett, >or Duane Allman to greater heights in the 1966 to 1970 period. By himself >without a stronger person in the band, he got too lazy in the studio. As someone who used to care about Clapton a LOT, I think this is an excellent point. He still found very good players, but nobody who would push him toward digging deeper. He even tried another guitar whiz occasionally, such as Albert Lee around ANOTHER TICKET, but Albert Lee's just a dang nice guy rather than someone who would push Eric. And then he found Phil Collins. > Did anybody pick up the Roger Waters album that Clapton played on? >Is it any good? Yes, that's THE PROS AND CONS OF HITCHHIKING. I think it's very good, despite some ridiculous uses of the female backing vocal chorus. Interestingly, though, Clapton plays well but doesn't seem as distinctive a voice as Gilmour. Is that possibly because everyone imitates Clapton and not everyone imitates Gilmour? Perhaps even Clapton was imitating Clapton by this point. From subsequent accounts, it wasn't a project into which Clapton invested deeply. Plus, he was in one of his deeper substance-abuse troughs at the time (see hiring Phil Collins). - -- Dolph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 10:53:30 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: that damn list >Nah, c'mon: Phil was a fine drummer. Besides, if he'd died at birth, >he wouldn't have been in _A Hard Day's Night_. Urban myth. He wasn't. > > Mercury was still working until the end, too, and indications from > > what he could do then show he still had quite a bit of music in him. > >Ehh, but come on...when Mercury died, how many albums had Queen >released since releasing one which "mattered"? Queen *never* released an album that mattered. > > Well Strummer, Lennon, Cobain, Holly, Hendrix, Parsons, Marley, Zevon, > > and Moon were all putting out pretty damn vital work right until the > > end of their lives... in the case of Strummer and Lennon they were > > both making very impressive comebacks, the others just hadn't stopped > > and showed no sign of doing so. > >Well, the list you cite above is far different from the edited list I >returned of your "fading stars." Ssince it contains nine of the twelve names on my list, I don't think so. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 22:05:57 -0000 From: Dr John Halewood Subject: RE: Makin' a list... dolph scribbled: > Plus, he was in one of his deeper substance-abuse troughs > at the time (see hiring Phil Collins). eh? Is Phil Collins a class A controlled substance? I can just see it now: "m'lud, the defendant was found in possession of a class A drug, namely one Phil Collins, and was intent on supplying said Collins to the general public as a singer, and, insodoing, making their lives a complete misery, forcing them into crime and petty larceny in order to buy copies of his back catalogue of albums." That sort of court case would be way more entertaining than Jacko vs world + dog. cheers john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:10:16 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: that damn list On Feb 7, 2005, at 1:53 PM, James Dignan wrote: >> Nah, c'mon: Phil was a fine drummer. Besides, if he'd died at birth, >> he wouldn't have been in _A Hard Day's Night_. > > Urban myth. He wasn't. Are you saying the urban myth is that he was a fine drummer? Because his website says he was in "A Hard Day's Night". http://www.philcollins.co.uk/film1.htm - -tc p.s. You owe be a beer for making me visit the Phil Collins web site... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:51:48 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: that damn list James Dignan, in an unusually combative mood: >> > Mercury was still working until the end, too, and indications from >> > what he could do then show he still had quite a bit of music in >> him. >> >> Ehh, but come on...when Mercury died, how many albums had Queen >> released since releasing one which "mattered"? > > Queen *never* released an album that mattered. Oh, please. I'm not a big fan myself, but let's be realistic here. >> Well, the list you cite above is far different from the edited list I >> returned of your "fading stars." > > Since it contains nine of the twelve names on my list, I don't think > so. My previous response to your post: > Joe Strummer? > Marvin Gaye > George Harrison > Marc Bolan > Freddie Mercury > Nico > Harry Nilsson > Ronnie Lane > Elvis You're awfully optimistic about stars whose light was already fading. ;) And your response to the above: >> Well Strummer, Lennon, Cobain, Holly, Hendrix, Parsons, Marley, Zevon, >> and Moon were all putting out pretty damn vital work A list which contains exactly one name in common with the names I pulled out from your preceding post. Meanwhile, I don't know about you folks, but I could easily stand to go the rest of the year without hearing the word "dynasty" again. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:24:56 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: that damn list Rex Broome wrote: >> Meanwhile, I don't know about you folks, but I could easily stand to >> go >> the rest of the year without hearing the word "dynasty" again. > > Other than fulfilling order for the TV show by that title at work, I > think this is the first time I've heard the word in 2005. What have I > been missing? > Someone else tell Rex about on life on Earth. I can't bear the labor. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:55:03 -0800 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: that damn list > Someone else tell Rex about on life on Earth. I can't bear the labor. Jesus. That time of the month? I mean, I could guess you're referring to the Presidency or perhaps a sports franchise or something, but you really didn't give us much to work with. Anyone else think that the question particularly makes me out a dolt? Or that Eb's answer makes him look really, really cool? - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:55:57 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: that damn list On Feb 7, 2005, at 4:24 PM, Eb wrote: > Rex Broome wrote: >>> Meanwhile, I don't know about you folks, but I could easily stand to >>> go >>> the rest of the year without hearing the word "dynasty" again. >> >> Other than fulfilling order for the TV show by that title at work, I >> think this is the first time I've heard the word in 2005. What have I >> been missing? >> > Someone else tell Rex about on life on Earth. I can't bear the labor. > I think it'd be nice of us to let Jill Brand do the honors. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:50:38 -0800 From: "michael wells" Subject: robyn tour with clapton and collins Robyn at Belmont and Southport: > Yay! His bad experience with merch personnel last time didn't sour him on Schuba's! This is so sweet. SWEET! Quail: > Yeah -- "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking." I like it a lot -- if you did "The Final Cut," chances are you'll dig this. Too bad the idiots censored the cover, though. Not if you bought it right away - I've got my original 'bare-assed' version around here somewhere. Whale of a tour too, anybody besides Marc and me see it? One half of the show was PCHH straight through and the other was all Floyd songs. You just can't beat hearing "Nobody Home" sung by Roger Waters, although I did miss Gilmour's guitar that night. Clapton was meandering noticeably. But yeah, it's a good one if you like Waters' weirdness without requiring accessibility (i.e. Radio KAOS). Absorbing. Greg: > i'm not gonna say anything about jews or asses ever again probably, but i would contribute to a feglist music compilation. Me too - that would force me to finish this thing in open G that I've been working on, and finally re-tune the Ovation. But I may still talk about butts. Remember, if you want to catch a funk, you've got to attack from the back. Phil Collins was known as a fine stay-at-home drummer in his day. That meant if your band needed a fine drummer, you told him to stay at home! (snort). No, really. Good tom-work. Michael "you still don't believe me, do you?" Wells ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:24:34 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: that damn list On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:55:03 -0800, Rex Broome wrote: > > Someone else tell Rex about on life on Earth. I can't bear the labor. > > Jesus. That time of the month? > > I mean, I could guess you're referring to the Presidency or perhaps a > sports franchise or something, but you really didn't give us much to > work with. > > Anyone else think that the question particularly makes me out a dolt? > Or that Eb's answer makes him look really, really cool? It's okay, Rex - you see, there's this thing called "sports," one of which is called (by Americans, and for no good reason) "Football." It's popujlar because, apparently, many Americans enjoy seeing large men pummel the tar out of one another - either that, or they enjoy the sight of oblong brown inflated objects being passed from between one man's bent-over buttcheeks into the hands of another man, I'm not sure. Once a year, these "football" players decide who's got the best team, and in doing so, they completely supersede the game itself with an orgy of unrelated showbiz dollar-chomping (sorta like the Presidential inauguration). It seems one team - preposterously, and suspiciously, named "the Patriots" - have won three of the last four of these so-called "Super Bowls." (Again with the bathroom imagery...) For whatever reason, "sportswriters" (people who are actually paid money to put together words about these lard-bellied behemoths) are unduly enamored of the word "dynasty" and use it to describe any team that wins a championship more than, oh, twice. In other words, yes, having to hear the word "dynasty" over & over again is annoying as hell. On another subject: pretty damned funny that Tony's declined to picking up ill-tempered bartenders... - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #33 *******************************