From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #31 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, February 5 2005 Volume 14 : Number 031 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Makin' a list... [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: Makin' a list... [Eb ] REAP ["Marc Alberts" ] Re: Makin' a list... ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Makin' a list... [Eb ] Re: My Personal 5 Most tragic deaths [Jeff ] Re: My Personal 5 Most tragic deaths [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Makin' a list... [James Dignan ] Re: Makin' a list... [Eb ] robyn @ the iron horse, march 28 [bisontentacle ] Re: Makin' a list... [Jeff ] Re: Makin' a list... [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: Makin' a list... [Jeff ] Re: Makin' a list... [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: Walking all over TMBG [Capuchin ] Re: REAP [Capuchin ] Factory Showroom (was Re: STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE CANCELLED - UPN) [Capuchi] Re: walking on sunshine [Capuchin ] Re: Factory Showroom (was Re: STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE CANCELLED - UPN) [Jef] Re: Around the Suck (was: Walking all over R.E.M.) [Capuchin Subject: Re: Makin' a list... - -- Eb is rumored to have mumbled on 4. Februar 2005 11:56:47 Uhr -0800 regarding Re: Makin' a list...: > I was really sad when Epic Soundtracks and Timmy Taylor died, but I can't > imagine there are too many others who felt the same way. :) I don't even know who Timmy Taylor is/was, but I wholeheartedly agree about Epic Soundtracks. I really love "Rise Above", but probably even more the These Immortal Souls stuff he's done. I saw them live several times and he was always very kind. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn EhrenfeldgC Subject: Re: Makin' a list... >> I was really sad when Epic Soundtracks and Timmy Taylor died, but I >> can't >> imagine there are too many others who felt the same way. :) > > I don't even know who Timmy Taylor is/was http://www.southern.com/southern/band/BRAIC/ > I saw them live several times and he was always very kind. I really regret missing Epic Soundtracks live. I think he only played locally once or twice, and I missed the shows because I was a bit late in discovering his first album. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 19:19:49 -0800 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: REAP Ossie Davis, 87 years old. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 23:35:24 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Makin' a list... Eb wrote: > >> I don't even know who Timmy Taylor is/was > http://www.southern.com/southern/band/BRAIC/ I saw Brainiac support Beck in May 1997. They were embarrassingly bad, and everyone was wandering about the SECC making "aargh, make it stop" noises. I think it may have been the last gig Brainiac ever did. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 20:42:53 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Makin' a list... >>> I don't even know who Timmy Taylor is/was >> http://www.southern.com/southern/band/BRAIC/ > > I saw Brainiac support Beck in May 1997. They were embarrassingly bad, > and everyone was wandering about the SECC making "aargh, make it stop" > noises. I think it may have been the last gig Brainiac ever did. > I thought they were great live. Full of nervous, skittish energy. I dug 'em. Glad I managed to see them once before TT departed. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 00:27:13 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: My Personal 5 Most tragic deaths On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:22:18 -0800, Rex Broome wrote: > > 1. The Genius Jimi Hendrix, who had so much more to do and say Y'all are forgetting Jesus Christ, who could play guitar better than Hendrix, and was way cool to boot. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 23:50:35 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: My Personal 5 Most tragic deaths Jeff wrote: > Rex Broome wrote: > > > 1. The Genius Jimi Hendrix, who had so much more to > > > do and say > > Y'all are forgetting Jesus Christ, who could play guitar > better than Hendrix, and was way cool to boot. Well, he could've. Didn't, since they didn't have guitars. Same reason that he didn't play hockey better than Gretzky, et cetera. and it's: jimi hendrix buddy holly kurt cobain bob marley john lennon and sid vicious. not so much because he had anything to give (and had even given anything yet), but so that wankers couldn't idolize him as a tragic hero. ===== "I had naively believed all these many years that Americans genuinely believed in freedom of speech. [But I] discovered there that when you made an utterance that was remotely contrary to what the White House was saying, then they attacked you. For a South African the deja vu was frightening. They behaved exactly the same way that used to happen here [during apartheid]: vilifying those who are putting forward a slightly different view." -- Desmond Tutu __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 21:38:38 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: Makin' a list... >today being (at least in a few time zones, yet) the anniversary of The Day >The Music Died, i was kinda wondering which were the most tragic deaths in >rock and/or roll? (defined as the quantity of beautiful music prevented by >the death -- but being mitigated by the quantity of beautiful music already >in the deceased's ledger. or something like that.) is the following order >just totally whacko? > >kurt cobain >randy rhoades >mia zapata >james hendrix >bon scott >jim morrison (say what you will, but i think that *L.A. Woman* was far >their best album) >ricky wilson >buddy holly >d. boone >sterling morrison >keith moon >ian curtis Yes, it is. You don't have Lennon in your list? Or Bob Marley? Or Joe Strummer? I'd possibly also have Gram Parsons, at least one of the Buckleys, Marvin Gaye, George Harrison... No-one, I note, has mentioned either Marc Bolan (who would be on my list) or Freddie Mercury (who wouldn't). Nico? Harry Nillson? Ronnie Lane? Warren Zevon? Peter Tosh? Strange that no-one has mentioned Elvis... (not on my list, but surprised he isn't on someone's...) If I had to go for a 12, it'd probably be Lennon, Cobain, Holly, Hendrix, Strummer, Parsons, Marley, Zevon, Moon, Harrison, Gaye, Bolan. (with Curtis and the two Buckleys just bubbling under). James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 01:22:37 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Makin' a list... > James Dignan suggested: > Joe Strummer? > Marvin Gaye > George Harrison > Marc Bolan > Freddie Mercury > Nico > Harry Nilsson > Ronnie Lane > Elvis You're awfully optimistic about stars whose light was already fading. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 12:53:49 -0500 From: bisontentacle Subject: robyn @ the iron horse, march 28 the iron horse in northampton, ma is listing robyn for monday, march 28th. tickets are on sale through the northampton box office or by calling 1-800-the-tick. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:43:15 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Makin' a list... On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 21:38:38 +1300, James Dignan wrote: > Yes, it is. You don't have Lennon in your list? Or Bob Marley? Or Joe Strummer? > > I'd possibly also have Gram Parsons, at least one of the Buckleys, > Marvin Gaye, George Harrison... > > No-one, I note, has mentioned either Marc Bolan (who would be on my > list) or Freddie Mercury (who wouldn't). Nico? Harry Nillson? Ronnie > Lane? Warren Zevon? Peter Tosh? > > Strange that no-one has mentioned Elvis... (not on my list, but > surprised he isn't on someone's...) See, here's the problem (which the UN ought to appoint a commission to study, it's so important): this is just turning into a list of People Who Died (who died). What was lost to music when George Harrison (who hadn't recorded in years and, as far as I know, had no plans to record) died? Nothing - except of course that it was sad that he died young, and because he had contributed so much. But his future contributions would have been, in all likelihood, nil. Same with Elvis. In a few years, of course, we'll see doddering former rockers in their 80s keeling over in their walkers, having slipped in a puddle of their own drool - and someone will still say, oh, the music we would have heard from him! Because I'm feeling mean today, how about: A List of Musicians Who Should've Died to Spare Us the Awful Music They Put Out After Having Done Some Good Stuff? My first four nominees? Stevie Wonder, Rod Stewart, Phil Collins, and the members of Jefferson Airplane. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:29:00 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: Makin' a list... On Sat, 5 Feb 2005, Jeff wrote: > What was lost to music when George Harrison (who hadn't recorded in > years and, as far as I know, had no plans to record) died? Nothing - > except of course that it was sad that he died young, and because he > had contributed so much. But his future contributions would have been, > in all likelihood, nil. George Harrison was working on "Brainwashed" when he died and it was released later that year. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:36:14 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Makin' a list... On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:29:00 -0800 (PST), Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > On Sat, 5 Feb 2005, Jeff wrote: > > > What was lost to music when George Harrison (who hadn't recorded in > > years and, as far as I know, had no plans to record) died? Nothing - > > except of course that it was sad that he died young, and because he > > had contributed so much. But his future contributions would have been, > > in all likelihood, nil. > > George Harrison was working on "Brainwashed" when he died and it was > released later that year. Err, uh...oh yeah. Forgot that. Never mind. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:06:58 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: Makin' a list... On Sat, 5 Feb 2005, Jeff wrote: > > > What was lost to music when George Harrison (who hadn't recorded in > > > years and, as far as I know, had no plans to record) died? Nothing - > > > except of course that it was sad that he died young, and because he > > > had contributed so much. But his future contributions would have > > > been, in all likelihood, nil. > > > > George Harrison was working on "Brainwashed" when he died and it was > > released later that year. > > Err, uh...oh yeah. Forgot that. > Never mind. :) IMHO, "Brainwashed" was one of his most solid albums since the first! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:34:58 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Walking all over TMBG On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Eb wrote: >> Caroline, No > > Oh god. TMBG covered THAT? What ghastly news. The biggest problem with it is the extreme faithfulness of the arrangement and instrumentation with Flans' not-quite-perfect falsetto. If you're going to cover something, make it your own, damnit! Doing exactly what someone else has done isn't interesting to anybody. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:38:54 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: REAP On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, Marc Alberts wrote: > Ossie Davis, 87 years old. So who is fit to eulogize the man who eulogized Malcolm X? J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:16:47 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Factory Showroom (was Re: STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE CANCELLED - UPN) On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Rex Broome wrote: > Hmmm, interesting. Lincoln was the peak for me. The next two were > pretty good, but they just wore a bit thinner for me with each release, > and I was pretty much gone by the dawn of the "recorded with a full > band" era (I have one of two of those records as low-end-of-the-used-bin > pickups but haven't spent much time with them). I guess I liked neither > the idea that having a "full band" was intrinsically good or necesary, > nor the edge it seemed to take off of their "what the hell" approach to > sound. Probably just me. I'm sure it's not just you (as evidenced by later posts, sure), but it's a position that I think you'd change if you were a bit more informed. The first three records (untitled, Lincoln, and Flood) have the existential dread cranked high and a certain "let's get this recording out the door so we can move on to the next song idea" attitude. There was a period where the maturity of their musicianship kind of got in the way of their songcraft. Apollo 18 and John Henry have some good songs buried under bad production and a very poor track order. (Apollo 18 had a notice inside the sleeve that said the track order was intended to optimize listening on "random" or "shuffle" in a CD player. I think people only use that feature after they know they like the album, so it's vital that the track order be devised beforehand to emphasize thematic tensions and provide a consistent flow from start to finish.) Furthermore, the band chosen for John Henry didn't seem to gel with the TMBG ethic. Clearly the Johns thought so as well, since that band didn't appear on any further records. I'm somewhat in a minority opinion here, but I think Factory Showroom is truly their peak and masterpiece. There's a depth and breadth to both the songcraft and musicianship on this record that is somehow both surprising and completely self-consistent. Pet Name could be a Squeeze song while S-E-X-X-Y is lush disco funk while I Can Hear You is the lowest of lo-fi (recorded on an Edison wax cylinder). I think literally my only complaint with this record is the inclusion of a lesser recording of James K. Polk than the one that appeared on the Istanbul EP a few years earlier. The men's chorus in the middle of that song is more synergistic than Julian Koster's singing saw (as pleasant as that is). All in all, though, I think it's a record about analysis and deconstruction of all things -- even the obsessive personality that is compelled to analyze and deconstruct. What makes a transexual and what effect does that have on everyone else? How does a person descend into crushing addiction? Should we follow the course set by XTC or Adam Ant? Where the hell are the other ten Advil? The aforementioned I Can Hear You is a masterpiece of irony, I think. Each verse of I Can Hear You is an audio portrait of barely recognizable electronically reproduced voices (apartment building door buzzers, drive-thu windows, etc.) recorded for all time with no electricity whatsoever and exactly the same quality of sound. In short, Factory Showroom is a record for adults that exploits every aspect of songwriting, arrangement, instrumentation, and production to encourage the listener to question everything and seek always to find out why. On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Bret wrote: >>> I have the two that followed Lincoln though. >> >> Hmmm, interesting. Lincoln was the peak for me. > > In a perfect world TMBG would have made the pick album, followed by > Lincoln, then would have gone onto making songs for kids shows and never > bothered releasing a record again. > > of course, what do I know? With a few exceptions, TMBG songs are not for children. They often have a musical universality and charm that appeals to people of all ages, sure. But the themes and ideas expressed require an intellectual detachment, sense of irony and abstraction, intimate awareness of one's own mortality, and general recognition of the absurdity of human constructions (not to mention the literary and historical allusion with which the work is rife) in order to appreciate. A child's appreciation of They Might Be Giants is necessarily superficial. I'm not going to spell out what I think that implies about an adult who sees only the child's appreciation. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:24:45 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Capuchin wrote: >> Yellow Submarine isn't escapist because there's no hint at what is >> being escaped. > > I'd opine (yes, I would; I'm qualified, I take public transit) that > 'escapist' and 'whimsy' are near-synonyms. They're all about the flight > of fancy thing on the part of the writer. See, I'd argue here that one can be whimsical and in touch with reality simultaneously, while escapism requires a detachment from reality. Whimsy has to do with following one's whim, regardless of where it goes; while escapism is purposely distancing one's self from a particular aspect of reality. Hell, whimsy could drive you right into the heart of reality. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 18:25:07 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: Factory Showroom (was Re: STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE CANCELLED - UPN) On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:16:47 -0800 (PST), Capuchin wrote: > The aforementioned I Can Hear You is a masterpiece > of irony, I think. Each verse of I Can Hear You is an audio portrait of > barely recognizable electronically reproduced voices (apartment building > door buzzers, drive-thu windows, etc.) recorded for all time with no > electricity whatsoever and exactly the same quality of sound. Without precluding the irony you see, I also think it's a marvelously moving song about failed communication - ideally embodied in its archaic, flawed medium. Then, I have a thing about corroded sound - at this point, everyone should put on "This Is the Way" by Ultra Vivid Scene. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:25:53 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Around the Suck (was: Walking all over R.E.M.) On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Aaron Mandel wrote: > Actually, "Am I Awake?" on the EP and not on the album. And they did > release an EP that had no overlap with the album later on in 2004 (The > Spine Surfs Alone). I just learned about this ten minutes ago (if I'd been reading the list more diligently, I would have learned about it two days ago). I'll find a copy of it. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:27:27 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Around the Suck (was: Walking all over R.E.M.) On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Aaron Mandel wrote: > Actually, "Am I Awake?" on the EP and not on the album. Oh, and I'll also submit that Am I Awake? seems, at least at this point, to be better than any of the non-EP tracks on The Spine. I'll get back to you on that after more listens, though. Sorry for not including that in the last message. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:35:16 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Factory Showroom (was Re: STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE CANCELLED - UPN) On Sat, 5 Feb 2005, Jeff wrote: > Without precluding the irony you see, I also think it's a marvelously > moving song about failed communication - ideally embodied in its > archaic, flawed medium. Absolutely. Even though there is clearly nothing at all to support this lyrically in the intentionally generic verses, I get the very clear impression that the call from the airplane is a desperate attempt to maintain contact in a strained, crumbling relationship that has fallen apart due to poor communication. You might say I'm reading a whole lot into that, but it comes across quite clearly (and, thus, more's the irony). J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 18:19:27 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Factory Showroom (STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE CANCELLED) Jeme: > it's a position that I think you'd change if you were a bit more > informed. Funny how he seems to take this stance, every time he faces an opposing view. Eb (drop me in the "They were never the same, once they hired a band" bin) ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #31 *******************************