From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V14 #26 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, February 2 2005 Volume 14 : Number 026 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: walking on sunshine [Benjamin Lukoff ] Re: The Chris Stamey Experience ["Larry Tucker" ] Re: Walking on McCartney [James Dignan ] Re: walking on sunshine [Capuchin ] Re: walking on sunshine [Capuchin ] Re: Coachella [Capuchin ] Re: walking on sunshine [Eb ] Re: walking on sunshine [Jeff ] Re: walking on sunshine [Capuchin ] Re: walking on sunshine [Capuchin ] Re: walking on sunshine [2and2makes5@comcast.net] Re: walking on sunshine [Eb ] Re: walking on sunshine [Jeff ] Re: walking on sunshine [Eb ] RE: walking on sunshine ["Marc Alberts" ] Re: walking on sunshine [Jeff ] Robyn's next guitar? [Mike Swedene ] Re: walking on sunshine [Eb ] Re: walking on sunshine ["Brian Hoare" ] Re: walking on sunshine [Capuchin ] Re: walking on sunshine [Capuchin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:18:02 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Rex Broome wrote: > > I always liked the Bangles cover of KR's "Going Down To Liverpool". > > Kimberly probably made a few bucks off that one, which in my mind was > > a much better song then WOS. > > I like it as well, and yeah, much better song. A friend of mine > recently picked up last year's (?) Bangles record and I keep meaning 2003, actually. > to ask her how it is. The Costello cover was nice. It was definitely better than "Everything" and could even be argued to be as good as, if not better, than "Different Light." Does "Tear Off Your Own Head" count as a cover since, as I understand it, Elvis wrote that song for Susannah? Highlights for me were "Stealing Rosemary," "Something That You Said," "Ask Me No Questions," "Nickel Romeo," "Ride the Ride," "Here Right Now," "Single by Choice," "Mixed Messages." That's one Susannah, one Michael, one group, and the rest the Peterson sisters. I was especially impressed by Debbi's work on this album. Wonder if there'll be a followup? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:38:33 -0500 From: "Larry Tucker" Subject: Re: The Chris Stamey Experience > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:06:54 -0800 > From: Rex Broome > Subject: Re: The Chris Stamey Experience > > Brian Nupp wrote: > > Anyone else enjoying Chris Stamey's new release with Yo La Tengo? > > Larry Tucker? > > > > 2 good releases from Stamey in less than a year. > > In other news, it looks quite probably that we'll be adding the > original lineup of the dB's to the reunion colomn. > > - -Rex I posted that article to loudfans that Rex kindly forward here. This is indeed exiting news! And yes Nuppy, the Stamey album with YLT is one of my favorites. Back in December Chris did a show with Mitch Easter opening. Mitch played with him on "Politician" and "Shapes of Things", then again on a Sneakers tune "Ruby" as an encore. I spoke with Chris after the show and he said that something with the dB's would be happening in the coming year, as well as another solo release and a likely album with Peter Holsapple to boot. It appears Stamey is on a music romp here of late. It's also quite likely that Mitch Easter will have a solo album out some time later this year. I think the recordings are pretty much in the bag from what I've heard. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:03:20 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Coachella > Strange to see Mercury Rev buried so far down the bill Nah, they peaked several years ago. > I think the complaint about the "whoa-ohs" is a bit odd: I mean, rock > and R&B history is just jam-packed full of expressive, non-verbal > moments like that. Yeah, but this is an INexpressive, non-verbal moment. ;p It's jive, man. Eb np: sifting through all of your duplicate-send messages ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:14:34 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: Walking on McCartney > > Well, just to pick a compatible counterexample, think of R.E.M.'s > > "Can't Get There from Here." It's from a similar era with a similar > > feel, and by a much more popular band...and yet, when's the last time > > you heard THAT song? > >Well, "Sunshine" was also a major chart single. "Can't Get Here From >There", not so much; nb. most folks consider "Losing My Religion" to >be "early" R.E.M. Maybe a better, more shine-compatible comparison >would be "Shiny Happy People", which you might still hear, and >warranted a Sesame Street segment. A lot of a song's longevity, at >least in the mass culture arena, depends on how many people heard it >when it was initially released, I'd think. And I'd definitely argue that - in catchiness stakes - WOS is a mile clear of CGTFH. The beat is faster, crisper,and less syncopated to start with. Just plain honest boom-crash-boom-crash, whereas the REM song subverts that a bit with the jitter guitar. Also, it wasn't used incessantly for years by advertising companies. > > > It's the sort of empty lyrical filler which people often gripe about in > > > songs like "Sussudio" and McCartney's "My Love." Phooey. > > > > I don't think so. I think the bit in Walking On Sunshine is purposely > > recalling its roots in soul music, whereas Phil Collins and Paul McCartney > > haven't a soul between them. > >Why do people hate Paul so much? Can you honestly listen to his entire >catalog, Beatle and solo, and not find a bit of soul in it anywhere? He tries too hard to be nice, I think. And there is such a vast slide in his form from the early Beatles to his post Beatles work. The same can, no doubt, be saiid of John's post-Beatle work, but it retained an interesting edge whereas Paul's had too much homily value. Having said that, Paul's lesser known work - which tends to be more experimental - is often quite interesting. As for Collins, he's always better working with other peope where he doesn't have to step out front and lead. "Needs guidance" would be my report on him. Even so, he did put out a ripper version of Tomorrow Never Knows on his first solo album (that album is quite listenable to, unlike everything he's done since). James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:31:39 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Eb wrote: > Jeme: >> First, I would argue that they don't really have a similar feel. >> Can't Get There From Here is much darker, I think, and about escaping >> the rotten world, whereas Walking On Sunshine is all about embracing >> the lovely world. > > Well, this is something I always notice about your musical views. You > don't have much feel for music, and tend to immediately jump to lyrical > analysis. I wasn't making a lyrical analysis. Consider Walking On Sunshine has a big jangly guitar up front and shining while Can't Get There From Here has a loping bass line as a hook. And the HORNS for God's sake! James' statements about clarity and bright production lend support to my argument. And in the case of songs that have the kind of popular endurance that Walking On Sunshine has, lyrics undeniably matter. People have to belt it out and it has to sound great when you hire a studio musician to lay it down for your advertisement (Jeffrey's important note). The song's a downer, whether you know what the lyrics say or not. The whole syncopated rhythm of the thing implies precarious balance and discomfort. Walking on Sunshine, however, is self-assured and each part is confident and in its own place. > I didn't work too hard at picking that song for comparison, Well, work harder. What's from that era with big, clear vocals, a bright, poppy chorus and a peppy, uplifting backbeat that isn't still heard all the time, all over the place? Then you might have some kind of argument. > but I will say that both songs have explosive, simple, circular choruses > with very basic chords. That doesn't say much. > And I can guarantee that's what made "Can't Get There From Here" a radio > single when it was new, not its "darker lyrics about the rotten world." No, it was marketting, of course. That's what always has and always will make radio singles. > Also, both arrangements are in the same picked '80s-guitar vein, with > extra horns added as a special touch. Yeah... horns. Blaring trumpets and trombones (and alto and tenor sax) on Walking on Sunshine versus blatting baritone on Can't Get There From Here. >> Gosh, if we could just eject anything that's lame and pedestrian from >> popular culture, we wouldn't have any pop songs at all... and forget >> television... > > Zzzzz. Yeah, yeah...it's all garbage except for stuff which tech dorks > like. We know, we know, we know. Exactly, Eb... because I've expressed that so many times. If you're going to be dismissive, you should probably at least properly characterize that which you're dismissing. >> I think the bit in Walking On Sunshine is purposely recalling its roots >> in soul music > > If it was soul, the "wooahs" would retain some spontaneity and wouldn't > be letter-perfect identical every time they appeared. It isn't soul, it's reminiscent of soul. The "wooahs" are homage. They suggest the passion of soul without all that unpredictability. >> whereas Phil Collins and Paul McCartney haven't a soul between them. > > And thus, Jeme pumps out another hopeful troll. Oh, believe me, if this ends up igniting a discussion of either of those fellows, I'll be disappointed in everyone involved -- even myself. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:34:12 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Benjamin Lukoff wrote: > Can you honestly listen to his entire catalog, Beatle and solo, and not > find a bit of soul in it anywhere? No, I honestly can't listen to his entire catalog. After two or three songs, I have to find the aural equivalent of a toothbrush. Does the phrase "Easter mouth" mean anything to anyone but me? J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:37:21 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Coachella On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Rex Broome wrote: > I'm still on the fence about Arcade Fire, although I think I'm starting > to like them. It's been getting about a spin a day at our house for some weeks. Although, to be fair, that might just be because it's something we all like well enough and we've played out all the Talking Heads and Suzanne Vega records. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:42:39 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: walking on sunshine >>> First, I would argue that they don't really have a similar feel. >>> Can't Get There From Here is much darker, I think, and about >>> escaping the rotten world, whereas Walking On Sunshine is all about >>> embracing the lovely world. > I wasn't making a lyrical analysis. Facts are facts. > No, it was marketting, of course. That's what always has and always > will make radio singles. Zzzzzzz. Yes, yes, Jeme...we're all corporate slaves. The audience has no role in what gets played on radio at all. Yes, yes. >> Zzzzz. Yeah, yeah...it's all garbage except for stuff which tech >> dorks like. We know, we know, we know. > > Exactly, Eb... because I've expressed that so many times. > If you're going to be dismissive, you should probably at least > properly characterize that which you're dismissing. Well, it's pretty easy to laugh at your elitism toward television, when you single out shows like Futurama, Family Guy and Star Trek as the ultimate achievements of the medium. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 20:19:19 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:31:39 -0800 (PST), Capuchin wrote: > > And I can guarantee that's what made "Can't Get There From Here" a radio > > single when it was new, not its "darker lyrics about the rotten world." > > No, it was marketting, of course. That's what always has and always will > make radio singles. Not quite: marketing is necessary but not sufficient. All the marketing might in the world will not make, say, an 18-minute free-jazz blowout a top-ten single with a lucrative afterlife in commercials and _American Idol_. While catchiness varies, there's almost always a clear musical hook in top singles - or at least, a clear lyrical/attitudinal hook. However, given fifty songs that meet whatever musical criteria define potential hit singles, it's marketing that decides which of those fifty is the hit (first, cuz it decides which one anyone hears in the first place). - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:46:29 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Jeff wrote: > On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:31:39 -0800 (PST), Capuchin wrote: >> No, it was marketting, of course. That's what always has and always >> will make radio singles. > > Not quite: marketing is necessary but not sufficient. All the marketing > might in the world will not make, say, an 18-minute free-jazz blowout a > top-ten single with a lucrative afterlife in commercials and _American > Idol_. Well, of course there are other forces at work to make sure the marketting folks don't even try to make an 18-minute free-jazz blowout. These are historical and, to some extent, technological... mostly concerning the running time of a 10 inch 78rpm phonograph record. > While catchiness varies, there's almost always a clear musical hook in > top singles - or at least, a clear lyrical/attitudinal hook. Well, that's what the artists who want top ten singles write and that's what the marketting department chooses to release, sure. It's mostly conditioned response. > However, given fifty songs that meet whatever musical criteria define > potential hit singles, it's marketing that decides which of those fifty > is the hit (first, cuz it decides which one anyone hears in the first > place). True dat. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:53:20 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Eb wrote: >> I wasn't making a lyrical analysis. > > Facts are facts. And A is A. Good job. The so-called "feel" of one song us upbeat and celebratory and the other down and escapist. The lyrics are probably the same, but I don't really know what Stipe's singing in Can't Get There From Here. I mean, really, wouldn't I have to know the lyrics in order to make a lyrical analysis? >> Exactly, Eb... because I've expressed that so many times. If you're >> going to be dismissive, you should probably at least properly >> characterize that which you're dismissing. > > Well, it's pretty easy to laugh at your elitism toward television, You could do that, if that were anything like the topic at hand... but it ain't. > when you single out shows like Futurama, Family Guy and Star Trek as the > ultimate achievements of the medium. This is no more true now than it was when you asserted it a year ago. Keep on keepin' on, Eb. I guess you're hoping for the "stopped clock effect" to prove you right one day. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 03:27:06 +0000 From: 2and2makes5@comcast.net Subject: Re: walking on sunshine - -------------- Original message -------------- > On 1 Feb 2005, at 06:40, Jeff wrote: > Then again, sometimes I get a bug up my ass about > > songs whose chorus is only the title phrase repeated over and over > > again, esp. if that phrase is just naming something rather than being > > a sentence. (Naturally, now I can't think of an actual example...) Jewels for Sophia--the song and the album. Robyn's songs, IMO, got a lot more repetitive after Moss Elixir. Almost to a Teletubby level of repetition. Dark dark dark dark dark dark ...princess (Again! Again!) Dark dark dark dark dark dark ...princess... Jon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:44:49 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: walking on sunshine > Jeme: > The so-called "feel" of one song us upbeat and celebratory and the > other down and escapist. The lyrics are probably the same, but I > don't really know what Stipe's singing in Can't Get There From Here. > I mean, really, wouldn't I have to know the lyrics in order to make a > lyrical analysis? I'd love to hear how you distinguish between songs which are "celebratory" and songs which are "escapist," based on music alone. >> when you single out shows like Futurama, Family Guy and Star Trek as >> the ultimate achievements of the medium. > > This is no more true now than it was when you asserted it a year ago. Then, what are your favorite TV shows? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:44:55 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:44:49 -0800, Eb wrote: > > Jeme: > > The so-called "feel" of one song us upbeat and celebratory and the > > other down and escapist. The lyrics are probably the same, but I > > don't really know what Stipe's singing in Can't Get There From Here. > > I mean, really, wouldn't I have to know the lyrics in order to make a > > lyrical analysis? > > I'd love to hear how you distinguish between songs which are > "celebratory" and songs which are "escapist," based on music alone. So music only sounds "celebratory" or "escapist" to you if there are lyrics? You're implying that the emotional content of songs is carried primarily, if not exclusively, by the lyrics, and that instrumental music should have a difficult time conveying emotion. Perhaps that's true for you, I don't know - but it's surely not true for most listeners, historically. Not to mention it's rather ironic, since earlier today you claimed Jeme's problem was that he focused too much on lyrics to the exclusion of music... - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:06:56 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: walking on sunshine >> I'd love to hear how you distinguish between songs which are >> "celebratory" and songs which are "escapist," based on music alone. > > So music only sounds "celebratory" or "escapist" to you if there are > lyrics? This is a really dumb retort. > You're implying that the emotional content of songs is carried > primarily, if not exclusively, by the lyrics, and that instrumental > music should have a difficult time conveying emotion. No, I'm implying that music has a difficult time conveying the difference between "celebratory" and "escapist." What does an "escapist" piece of music sound like to you? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:57:02 -0800 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: walking on sunshine Jeff wrote: > On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:31:39 -0800 (PST), Capuchin > wrote: > > > > And I can guarantee that's what made "Can't Get There From Here" a > radio > > > single when it was new, not its "darker lyrics about the rotten > world." > > > > No, it was marketting, of course. That's what always has and always > will > > make radio singles. > > Not quite: marketing is necessary but not sufficient. All the > marketing might in the world will not make, say, an 18-minute > free-jazz blowout a top-ten single with a lucrative afterlife in > commercials and _American Idol_. While catchiness varies, there's > almost always a clear musical hook in top singles - or at least, a > clear lyrical/attitudinal hook. > > However, given fifty songs that meet whatever musical criteria define > potential hit singles, it's marketing that decides which of those > fifty is the hit (first, cuz it decides which one anyone hears in the > first place). You sound like you've been reading the marketing literature about Polyphonic HMI. http://www.polyphonichmi.com/ Essentially, their entire raison d'etre is to analyze songs with their software, plot them, and determine if they land in a given "hit cluster" or not. I heard an interview with one of their representatives on the radio this weekend, and she was saying that something like 99% of all hit records in the US (defined by sales) fall into one of about 20 clusters of soundwave patterns as measured by tempo, key, and a bunch of other proprietary statistics she didn't elaborate on. If they are right, and you are right, then your second paragraph is spot on--marketing only determines at that point which "hit" caliber songs become hits in actuality. My guess is that there are no more than five songs Robyn has ever recorded that could fit well in a "hit cluster." Marc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:25:41 -0600 From: Jeff Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:06:56 -0800, Eb wrote: > >> I'd love to hear how you distinguish between songs which are > >> "celebratory" and songs which are "escapist," based on music alone. > > > > So music only sounds "celebratory" or "escapist" to you if there are > > lyrics? > > This is a really dumb retort. You imply that music alone cannot distinguish between the two qualities - I fail to see how asking if it's then the lyrics that make the distinction is a "really dumb retort." > > > You're implying that the emotional content of songs is carried > > primarily, if not exclusively, by the lyrics, and that instrumental > > music should have a difficult time conveying emotion. > > No, I'm implying that music has a difficult time conveying the > difference between "celebratory" and "escapist." That would have been clearer. > What does an "escapist" piece of music sound like to you? Well, "celebratory" has no reservations - it's pretty straightforward in its emotional content. "Escapist" is a bit of a double view: from one perspective, perhaps, it's celebratory - but we can see, or perhaps a part of the protagonist or what-have-you can sense, that there's something being overlooked (escaped from). So escapism would imply a darker undertone. If this were old-school movie music, say, "celebratory" might have jaunty strings with accents in the flutes and trumpets. "Escapist" might color that with, oh, a slower, moody countermelody in the cellos. (Cellos: Your Best Option for That Lingering Undercurrent of Doubt) To get back to our two songs: "Walking on Sunshine" is pretty straightforward - that Motown-esque beat, the bright horns, the exuberant "whoa-ohs"...pretty much "celebratory" (I say this not really having heard the song for some time...). "Can't Get There from Here," as someone pointed out, is a bit more nervous: the syncopation jitterishly avoids the downbeat; the horns are lower, murkier, blattier; and the melody line, dipping as it does to the bottom of Stipe's range in a nearly comical manner, sounds like someone trying to reassure you (and himself) that, uh, he's been there and knows the way. But we doubt it. Which of course brings us back to the lyrics: the idea of "walking on sunshine" is just a whole lot, well, sunnier than the absurdist contradiction of "I've been there, I know the way" and "can't get there from here." That is, insofar as CGTFH is upbeat and catchy, there's a nervous, contradictory (albeit darkly humorous) undertone that renders any notion of upbeatness rather...escapist. What was the point of this discussion again? May I just take this opportunity to diss Billy Joel - because one of the things that's always bugged me about him is that he never conveys the impression that he's really invested in the song - other than in the financial sense. It's always some sort of exercise*...yet part of that exercise is the woolpulling gesture of conforming to the public expectation of the authentically emotive pop singer (contrast w/someone like Stephin Merritt, whose irony and artifice are right on the surface). * His facility actually makes it worse: if his songs weren't catchy, they might even be charming. As it is, they're rather oily, even leechlike, in their lapel-grabbing, fifties-used-car- salesman manner. - -- ...Jeff The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 22:37:32 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Swedene Subject: Robyn's next guitar? http://www.harmony-central.com/Events/WNAMM96/Other/stump.html Ran across this. Thought we should point it out to Robyn :0) Mike np -> "Chain Reaction" Beck ===== - ------------------------------------------------- "there is water at the bottom of the ocean" - talking heads _________________________________________________________ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 00:14:59 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: walking on sunshine > "Escapist" > might color that with, oh, a slower, moody countermelody in the > cellos. > "Can't Get There from > Here," as someone pointed out, is a bit more nervous: the syncopation > jitterishly avoids the downbeat; the horns are lower, murkier, > blattier; and the melody line, dipping as it does to the bottom of > Stipe's range in a nearly comical manner, sounds like someone trying > to reassure you (and himself) that, uh, he's been there and knows the > way. But we doubt it. And you would describe that ambience as "escapist"?? You sure define the word in a curious way. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:10:08 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: Re: walking on sunshine >From: Rex Broome >Well, "Sunshine" was also a major chart single. "Can't Get Here From >There", not so much; nb. most folks consider "Losing My Religion" to >be "early" R.E.M. Maybe a better, more shine-compatible comparison >would be "Shiny Happy People", which you might still hear, and >warranted a Sesame Street segment. Seems like a US/UK cultural difference over Walking on Sunshine. Over here it is remembered, but as an old hit. The only times I have heard it broadcast in the years since it was a hit were a: a short clip on Nevermind the Buzzcocks, when Kim was in the identity parade. b: on a channel dedicated to the continual playing of hits of the 70-90's. However Shiny Happy People seems to have a much higher profile - last encountered as the background music for a collection of clips of Bush and Rice doing their thing. Brian np Genesis, Foxtrot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 02:37:37 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Tue, 1 Feb 2005, Eb wrote: >> Jeme: >> The so-called "feel" of one song us upbeat and celebratory and the other >> down and escapist. The lyrics are probably the same, but I don't really >> know what Stipe's singing in Can't Get There From Here. I mean, really, >> wouldn't I have to know the lyrics in order to make a lyrical analysis? > > I'd love to hear how you distinguish between songs which are "celebratory" > and songs which are "escapist," based on music alone. I could try, I suppose. Celebratory music would include, say, a fanfare in brass. I'd say the brass in Walking On Sunshine qualifies. Escapist is more of a combination of traits. The opening bass of Can't Get There From Here (which then introduces each chorus) descends conspiratorially -- as if what follows is a secret, private thing. Each instrument's part in the verses is straightforward, repetitive, and almost mechanically workaday, but when the chorus comes (with its singular cue of internal monologue), everything breaks out with flair and flourish. There's a clear separation between what must be shown to the public and what is private desire. >>> when you single out shows like Futurama, Family Guy and Star Trek as the >>> ultimate achievements of the medium. >> >> This is no more true now than it was when you asserted it a year ago. > > Then, what are your favorite TV shows? I only watch a few things and that's really only based on what I download or borrow from the video store. The only things I'm actively following are Arrested Development, The Sopranos and Six Feet Under. I also watch SeaLab 2021 when I run across an episode, but that doesn't really count. Now isn't that fascinating? J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 02:43:47 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: walking on sunshine On Wed, 2 Feb 2005, Eb wrote: >> "Escapist" might color that with, oh, a slower, moody countermelody in >> the cellos. >> "Can't Get There from Here," as someone pointed out, is a bit more >> nervous: the syncopation jitterishly avoids the downbeat; the horns are >> lower, murkier, blattier; and the melody line, dipping as it does to >> the bottom of Stipe's range in a nearly comical manner, sounds like >> someone trying to reassure you (and himself) that, uh, he's been there >> and knows the way. But we doubt it. > > And you would describe that ambience as "escapist"?? You sure define the word > in a curious way. Oddly, I wrote my reply before reading Jeffrey's description and found them similar. There's a brightness and enthusiasm, but it's tinged with the darker, less hopeful undercurrent. So maybe your definition is the more curious. Celebration in the face of hopelessness can only be practiced by escapists. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V14 #26 *******************************