From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V13 #362 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, December 21 2004 Volume 13 : Number 362 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Sieve [Tom Clark ] Re: Pixies - WOW [Tom Clark ] Re: White Offer/Mac AVI Question [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Re: [bot-easytree-org] NEW on EZT: Robyn Hitchcock and Heavy Friends - White Album Benefit - 08/07/04 - London, England (2nd half of show) [] Re: Pixies - WOW [Tom Clark ] Silly question [Eb ] RE: Pixies - WOW ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: PJH [James Dignan ] "pain cry"? Then language... [James Dignan ] Re: Pixies - WOW [Mike Swedene ] RE: Foreign languages and writing systems ["Marc Alberts" ] RE: Foreign languages and writing systems [Benjamin Lukoff ] 10 on the list I sent to Father Christmas ["Matt Sewell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:32:49 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Sieve On Dec 18, 2004, at 11:25 PM, Capuchin wrote: > On Sat, 18 Dec 2004, Aaron Mandel wrote: >> Mangling the occasional semi-common word is standard practice for some >> of us book-fed American-born folks. > > My absolute favorite was an ex-girlfriend of mine who insisted that > when a > person has intentionally caused you to believe something that isn't > true > (without actually lying), you have been misled -- that's myzld. > I've read it that way for years, yet pronounced it correctly. After confessing that to my wife it's become a running joke - "I've been [myzld]!!" - -tc p.s. Just heard "Never Breathe What You Can't See" by Jello Biafra and The Melvins. KICK ASS! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:38:25 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Pixies - WOW On Dec 18, 2004, at 8:19 PM, Steve Talkowski wrote: > Just got back from seeing the 2nd to last Pixies concert (early show, > they play again at midnight) at Hammerstein Ballroom. > > This was my first time seeing them live and they were AMAZING! I > think they played nearly the entirety of Doolittle as well. I had > only seen Frank Black once during his acoustic tour across the US in a > convertible Cadillac back in the early 90's. The band was extremely > tight and the endurance was incredible to witness first hand. I can't > believe they're going to do a 2nd show with the same intensity only 2 > hours later. > > Great stuff - felt like I was back in college... They did "Monkey Gone To Heaven" on Letterman last week too. Made me regret not seeing them on this tour. I'm really hoping some new material other than "Bam Twok" come out of their reunion. A new album for next summer maybe? - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:39:21 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: White Offer/Mac AVI Question - -- Mike Swedene is rumored to have mumbled on Montag, 20. Dezember 2004 11:53:01 Uhr MEZ -0800 regarding White Offer/Mac AVI Question: > MAC QUESTION: > I have two AVI files and need to join them together to > convert to MPEG to get on to dvd as one file. Any > pointers or websites besides: > http://www.videohelp.com/ would be appreciated. I haven't yet tried it, but ffmpegX claims to be able to do that. It's shareware ...: - -- Sebastian Hagedorn EhrenfeldgC Subject: [bot-easytree-org] NEW on EZT: Robyn Hitchcock and Heavy Friends - White Album Benefit - 08/07/04 - London, England (2nd half of show) http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=19049&hit=1 - ----- Forwarded message from EZT ----- A new torrent has been uploaded to EZT. Torrent: 19049 Title: Robyn Hitchcock and Heavy Friends - White Album Benefit - 08/07/04 - London, England (2nd half of show) Size: 197.78 MB Category: Singer/Songwriter Uploaded by: kevinengland Description - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robyn Hitchcock and Heavy Friends The White Album Against the War Benefit 3 Kings, Clerkenwell London August 7, 2004 Second Half cdr > flac 1. birthday 2. yer blues 3. mother nature's son 4. everybody's got something to hide..... 5. sexy sadie 6. helter skelter 7. long,long,long 8. revolution 1 9. honey pie 10. savoy truffle 11. cry baby cry 12. revolution 9 13. good night - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can use the URL below to download the torrent (you may have to login). http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=19049&hit=1 Take care! easytree.org - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:11:33 -0500 From: bisontentacle Subject: Re: [bot-easytree-org] NEW on EZT: Robyn Hitchcock and Heavy Friends - White Album Benefit - 08/07/04 - London, England (2nd half of show) apparently, there were some issues so this torrent is now available at: http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=19051 woj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:14:09 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Pixies - WOW > They did "Monkey Gone To Heaven" on Letterman last week too. Made me > regret not seeing them on this tour. Oh, crap! Why didn't anyone announce this appearance, beforehand? :( Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:16:30 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: [bot-easytree-org] NEW on EZT: Robyn Hitchcock and Heavy Friends - White Album Benefit - 08/07/04 - London, England (2nd half of show) bisontentacle wrote: > http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=19049&hit=1 um, don't you mean ? There is no torrent ID 19049. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:27:22 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Pixies - WOW On Dec 20, 2004, at 1:14 PM, Eb wrote: >> They did "Monkey Gone To Heaven" on Letterman last week too. Made me >> regret not seeing them on this tour. > > Oh, crap! Why didn't anyone announce this appearance, beforehand? :( > Sorry, I meant to. I think I still have it on the ole' TiVo though, if you want a copy. - -tc, feeling the floodgates opening... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:42:17 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Silly question Do you "get" the hidden link on the main Google page today? OK, there are the multilingual Xmas greetings...but what's with "1:" and "2: ???"? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:46:37 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: Pixies - WOW > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Clark [mailto:tclark@mac.com] > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 4:27 PM > To: fgz > Subject: Re: Pixies - WOW > > > On Dec 20, 2004, at 1:14 PM, Eb wrote: > > >> They did "Monkey Gone To Heaven" on Letterman last week > too. Made me > >> regret not seeing them on this tour. > > > > Oh, crap! Why didn't anyone announce this appearance, beforehand? :( > > > > Sorry, I meant to. I think I still have it on the ole' TiVo > though, if > you want a copy. I think that a release of a Pixies LIVE 2004 DVD sometime soon would be something that the Pixies should be considering. Has anyone heard of plans for a Live DVD from them? Michael B. NP Joanna Newsom - The Milk-Eyed Mender ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:47:21 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: PJH > > Harvey told her fans the concert would be "the last > > show I will ever play." > > (AR/WNWCCC/ZG) > >Of course, plenty of people have said that before and gone >back out on tour afterwards. Not that she (or they) were >lying, but there's nothing to say she won't/can't change >her mind. any suggestion she suffers stage fright (like Andy Partridge and John Lennon - significant factors in the lessened stage activity in their latter careers)? James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:47:23 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: "pain cry"? Then language... > > That's interesting. I was playing a rousing game of Skip-Bo with a group > > of punk rockers tonight and found that the word "discard" is pronounced > > differently by some in the context of playing card games than it is in > > normal discussion. If you throw something by the wayside, you've > > disCARDed it. If you're eliminating a card from your hand at the end of > > your turn, you're DIScarding. > > OK, not really a pronunciation difference, but a difference in emphasis. > >Emphasis (stress) is an integral part of pronunciation, so this anecdote >certainly belongs in this thread! yup. Sounds like a similar variant to the one which makes wince every time I hear basketball commentators talking about DE-fence. I realise this one is a variant in the sport alone, but there seem to be several two syllable words like this where the British stress the second syllable and the Americans stress the first ("research" comes to mind, as do "enquiry" and "inquiry", although these two are different in other ways too (the -qui- is as in quit in the US and as in quite in the UK, and ISTR they mean the same thing in the US but different things in the UK (enquir = ask, inquire = launch an official investigation (Ooooh! Nested parentheses!)))). > > Let's face it, English is not the world's easiest language. > > actually I'd argue that it rather is ... its grammar is certainly among the > easier ones. The difficulty lies in the abundance of idiomatic expressions. > The grieve/sieve thing has nothing to do with the language proper, but only > with its current writing system. I'm not about to open this can of worms, > but my take on this is that a reformed spelling system with a strict > phonology-grapheme correlation would do more harm than good. hmm. perhaps you're right as far as that goes. The pronunciation thing and the huge number of 'exceptions to the rules' must be baffling though. I know that I'm currently trying to revise the Russian I learnt ten or so years back and it is occasionally bewildering. It seems to have all the worst bits of English, plus the Latin cases, and a few little weird tricks of its own (paired verbs for complete and incomplete actions, anyone?) >BTW, I realised what makes this word so hard for me. It's not just the >broken analogy with "grieve", it's also a "false friend". The German >translation of "sieve" is "Sieb", and that one's pronounced with a long >vowel sound ... so if you ask for two sieves (presumably "zwei Sieben") do the people you're asking answer "vierzehn"? >Hmm, I generally appreciate anyone's efforts to learn a foreign language. >Although I have to say that I have a very hard time understanding some >foreigners who try to talk to me in *English*. Friends of mine whose >English isn't as good find that easier than myself. I guess that English >only works as a "lingua franca" within a group of people that have roughly >the same language proficiency. also(although I pesume this is true for german and other languages) there are huge dialectic/idiomatic differences. German is probably as close to Dutch as Yorkshire English is to Brooklyn English. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:13:22 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Swedene Subject: Re: Pixies - WOW it is torrented: http://www.easytree.org/torrents-details.php?id=18358 - --- Eb wrote: > > They did "Monkey Gone To Heaven" on Letterman last > week too. Made me > > regret not seeing them on this tour. > > Oh, crap! Why didn't anyone announce this > appearance, beforehand? :( > > Eb > ===== - ------------------------------------------------- "there is water at the bottom of the ocean" - talking heads _________________________________________________________ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:29:48 -0800 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: Foreign languages and writing systems Jeff wrote: > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:30:10 +0100, Sebastian Hagedorn > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > --On Sonntag, 19. Dezember 2004 7:32:02 Uhr MEZ +1300 James Dignan > > wrote: > > > > > Let's face it, English is not the world's easiest language. > > > > actually I'd argue that it rather is ... its grammar is certainly among > the > > easier ones. The difficulty lies in the abundance of idiomatic > expressions. > > The grieve/sieve thing has nothing to do with the language proper, but > only > > with its current writing system. I'm not about to open this can of > worms, > > but my take on this is that a reformed spelling system with a strict > > phonology-grapheme correlation would do more harm than good. > > I agree. For one thing, spelling is meaning in English, often - > therefore, spelling homonyms alike would make them harder to > distinguish. Boy, ain't this the truth! As someone who learned to speak Mandarin using pinyin, where there are about 220 sound combinations without using tonal symbols, and has corresponded with people using pinyin, I can attest to easy spelling a mixed blessing at times. It gets worse when you consider that Mandarin as a language is still in the process of linguistically migrating from a monosyllabic to a polysyllabic language, and thus you have not only single syllables that are indistinguishable (there are lots of those) but also cases where polysyllabic words sometimes are homonyms, too. It leads to interesting stories, though, like the child sent down to the countryside trying to explain an airplane flying above the clouds and the bewildered local children not understanding how a chicken could get so high up in the air ("chicken in flight" and "airplane" are exact tonal homonyms in Mandarin). > More importantly (for me, at least), spelling is history: > some oddities of spelling are archives of past pronunciation or > derivation, and once you know that, not only are they easier to spell > but as words they're livelier for that history. In fact, English > spelling is fairly regular - it's just a highly complex regularity. It definitely makes for some difficulties, but it does, as you point out, lead to some really interesting twists and turns if you only want to go down the path. Of course, it also puts you occasionally into situations like it did for David Howard in Washington, DC a few years back when he was thrown out of office for using the term "niggardly," where it may be spelled regularly but sounds uncomfortably like a term that one doesn't use in polite (or especially in political) conversations. Marc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:19:55 -0600 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Foreign languages and writing systems On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:29:48 -0800, Marc Alberts wrote: > the path. Of course, it also puts you occasionally into situations like it > did for David Howard in Washington, DC a few years back when he was thrown > out of office for using the term "niggardly," where it may be spelled > regularly but sounds uncomfortably like a term that one doesn't use in > polite (or especially in political) conversations. Wouldn't that be rather like the FCC fining someone for saying "Shih Tzu" on air? They're completely different words! np: Magnetic Fields "Fido Your Leash Is Too Long"... - -- ++Jeff++ The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:36:34 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Lukoff Subject: RE: Foreign languages and writing systems On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Marc Alberts wrote: > It definitely makes for some difficulties, but it does, as you point out, > lead to some really interesting twists and turns if you only want to go down > the path. Of course, it also puts you occasionally into situations like it > did for David Howard in Washington, DC a few years back when he was thrown > out of office for using the term "niggardly," where it may be spelled > regularly but sounds uncomfortably like a term that one doesn't use in > polite (or especially in political) conversations. That kerfuffle was the direct result of a lack of education among those who complained and an unwillingness to listen to reason when the situation was explained. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:38:12 -0800 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: Foreign languages and writing systems Jeff wrote: > > the path. Of course, it also puts you occasionally into situations like > it > > did for David Howard in Washington, DC a few years back when he was > thrown > > out of office for using the term "niggardly," where it may be spelled > > regularly but sounds uncomfortably like a term that one doesn't use in > > polite (or especially in political) conversations. > > Wouldn't that be rather like the FCC fining someone for saying "Shih > Tzu" on air? They're completely different words! Yup. He was, in the end, rehired after the second wave of furor over the whole thing (the first wave being all those who thought the term was racist). Still, it does illustrate the sensitivity that people can have with pseudo-homonyms like "niggardly" and the other word. Just think how many of these kind of things we'd have to deal with if we reconciled English spelling down to some sort of normative construct. http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/27/word.flap/ Marc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:50:50 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: RE: Foreign languages and writing systems - -- Marc Alberts is rumored to have mumbled on Montag, 20. Dezember 2004 17:29:48 Uhr MEZ -0800 regarding RE: Foreign languages and writing systems: >> I agree. For one thing, spelling is meaning in English, often - >> therefore, spelling homonyms alike would make them harder to >> distinguish. > > Boy, ain't this the truth! As someone who learned to speak Mandarin using > pinyin, where there are about 220 sound combinations without using tonal > symbols, and has corresponded with people using pinyin, I can attest to > easy spelling a mixed blessing at times. It gets worse when you consider > that Mandarin as a language is still in the process of linguistically > migrating from a monosyllabic to a polysyllabic language, and thus you > have not only single syllables that are indistinguishable (there are lots > of those) but also cases where polysyllabic words sometimes are homonyms, > too. It leads to interesting stories, though, like the child sent down > to the countryside trying to explain an airplane flying above the clouds > and the bewildered local children not understanding how a chicken could > get so high up in the air ("chicken in flight" and "airplane" are exact > tonal homonyms in Mandarin). I think you mean homophones ... oops, I see that Merriam-Webster now claims that homonym is a generic term for both homophones and homographs. During my time at school we only ever talked about homophones vs. homonyms. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn EhrenfeldgC Subject: RE: Foreign languages and writing systems Sebastian wrote: > >> I agree. For one thing, spelling is meaning in English, often - > >> therefore, spelling homonyms alike would make them harder to > >> distinguish. > > > > Boy, ain't this the truth! As someone who learned to speak Mandarin > using > > pinyin, where there are about 220 sound combinations without using tonal > > symbols, and has corresponded with people using pinyin, I can attest to > > easy spelling a mixed blessing at times. It gets worse when you > consider > > that Mandarin as a language is still in the process of linguistically > > migrating from a monosyllabic to a polysyllabic language, and thus you > > have not only single syllables that are indistinguishable (there are > lots > > of those) but also cases where polysyllabic words sometimes are > homonyms, > > too. It leads to interesting stories, though, like the child sent down > > to the countryside trying to explain an airplane flying above the clouds > > and the bewildered local children not understanding how a chicken could > > get so high up in the air ("chicken in flight" and "airplane" are exact > > tonal homonyms in Mandarin). > > I think you mean homophones ... oops, I see that Merriam-Webster now > claims > that homonym is a generic term for both homophones and homographs. During > my time at school we only ever talked about homophones vs. homonyms. Hmmmmm.... Homophones are words that sound alike but may be spelled differently, while homographs are words that are spelled the same the same but sound different. Homonyms, on the other hand, are words that have the same sound and may or may not be spelled the same, but differ in meaning. A homonym would not be the same as a homograph, therefore, since the pronunciation is the same in one and different in the other. In my example above, the two terms are spelled the same and sound the same, but have different meanings, which makes them homonyms. In both cases, they are "feiji" (or, if you're into tones, fei1ji1). In Mandarin with pinyin, homophones and homonyms are synonymous--there is only a single possible spelling for each phoneme with the exception of tones (my linguistics is a bit rusty, but I guess this would be a case where identical phonemes are not homophones since the language doesn't differentiate phonemes by tone). For practical use, however, it is quite difficult to use tones in non-handwritten correspondence because it both disturbs the syllabic constructions (which is often necessary to figure out meanings because of the previously-mentioned migration from monosyllabic constructs to polysyllabic constructs) and because it gets quite tedious to type in numbers with the phonemes, so they are often abandoned, leaving the reader faced with nothing but identical phonemes. Pinyin is a vernacular transcription system based strictly on assembled phonology, so it's not surprising it should be chock full of homonyms because of this. However while parsing the syllables properly helps for comprehension, using tone numbers kind of ruins that. At least for me, I have an easier time reading something like "Neiwei xianshengde mingzi shi Wang Xiaohu" (which parses almost identically to spoken Mandarin) than "Nei wei xian sheng de ming zi shi Wang Xiao hu" (which is how some Chinese would write it, in a totally unparsed manner) and "Nei4wei xian1sheng1de ming2zi shi2 Wang2 Xiao3hu4" (parsed with tones, which is far preferable than unparsed with tones that is more common and extremely difficult to figure out IMO) throws me off, especially since us non-native speakers tend to mess up tones only slightly less frequently in transcription than the Chinese do themselves, even if native speakers tend to be much better at recognizing tonal mistakes than I'll likely ever be. By the way, my simple sentence just means "That guy's name is Wang Xiaohu." If you're still awake after the last paragraph, I figured you would be just the sort that would ask ;-) Marc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:14:30 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: "pain cry"? Then language... Hi, - --On Dienstag, 21. Dezember 2004 12:47:23 Uhr MEZ +1300 James Dignan wrote: >> BTW, I realised what makes this word so hard for me. It's not just the >> broken analogy with "grieve", it's also a "false friend". The German >> translation of "sieve" is "Sieb", and that one's pronounced with a long >> vowel sound ... > > so if you ask for two sieves (presumably "zwei Sieben") do the people > you're asking answer "vierzehn"? no, because it's actually "zwei Siebe" ;-) Otherwise that might happen ... >> Hmm, I generally appreciate anyone's efforts to learn a foreign language. >> Although I have to say that I have a very hard time understanding some >> foreigners who try to talk to me in *English*. Friends of mine whose >> English isn't as good find that easier than myself. I guess that English >> only works as a "lingua franca" within a group of people that have >> roughly the same language proficiency. > > also(although I pesume this is true for german and other languages) there > are huge dialectic/idiomatic differences. Sure. > German is probably as close to > Dutch as Yorkshire English is to Brooklyn English. Perhaps, although the person from Yorkshire and the one from Brooklyn would probably find some middle ground where they could communicate. That's not necessarily true for a Dutchman and a German. Cologne is pretty close to the Dutch border, so the regional dialect here is relatively close to Dutch as well. Even still I have a hard time following Dutch TV. But if you move to other regions of Germany, there is no such linguistic proximity. Of course many people in the Netherlands speak German, but that's a different matter. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn PGP key ID: 0x4D105B45 http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 02:28:46 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: "pain cry"? Then language... On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > Perhaps, although the person from Yorkshire and the one from Brooklyn > would probably find some middle ground where they could communicate. > That's not necessarily true for a Dutchman and a German. Cologne is > pretty close to the Dutch border, so the regional dialect here is > relatively close to Dutch as well. Even still I have a hard time > following Dutch TV. I think there are probably lots of people in Brooklyn that have a hard time following Yorkshire TV. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:24:07 +0000 From: "Matt Sewell" Subject: 10 on the list I sent to Father Christmas All I want for Christmas: Tanz Der Lemminge - Amon Duul II Cult of the Basement - The Jazz Butcher Ege Bamyasi - Can* Riff Raff - Casey Neill The best start to Camper Van Beethoven appreciation (little help here?) Folkjokeopus - Roy Harper Surfer Rosa/Come On Pilgrim - Pixies* Incense and Peppermints - Strawberry Alarm Clock Electric Music for the Mind & Body - Country Joe & the Fish Spooked - Tall bloke... what's his name again? Robert something... Hedgehog? Cheers Matt *signifies a replacement for a long-lost copy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:49:35 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Foreign languages and writing systems Marc Alberts wrote: > > Hmmmmm.... Homophones are words that sound alike but may be spelled > differently, while homographs are words that are spelled the same the same > but sound different. Homonyms, on the other hand, are words that have the > same sound and may or may not be spelled the same, but differ in meaning. A > homonym would not be the same as a homograph, therefore, since the > pronunciation is the same in one and different in the other. I don't think it's quite as cut and dried as that. I think that they're broadly intersecting classes. F'rinstance, in dictionaries, the numbers next to identically-spelled headwords are homonym numbers. So while minute (n) and minute (adj) are pronounced differently, all the different meanings of 'pass' (as in mountain, manoeuvre, bus, and improper suggestion) are pronounced the same. Complex language defies simple definitions, sadly. But at least we Ontarians can buy "Gay Lea Homo Milk", and not titter when we do. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:38:38 +0000 From: "Matt Sewell" Subject: Re: PJH Well I saw her early this year here in Oxford - she was fantastic, and easily the most gorgeous slightly ugly person I've ever seen. She seemed completely given to the musical performances, but said absolutely nothing between songs, apart from to finish the line sang by someone down the front ("Where do the blackbird be?" ans. "I know where he be") - I do believe it's a Dorset thing... But yeah, I thought the between-song silence was a fear-based silence... Cheers Matt >From: James Dignan >Reply-To: James Dignan >To: fegmaniax@smoe.org >Subject: Re: PJH >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:47:21 +1300 > >> > Harvey told her fans the concert would be "the last >> > show I will ever play." >> > (AR/WNWCCC/ZG) >> >>Of course, plenty of people have said that before and gone >>back out on tour afterwards. Not that she (or they) were >>lying, but there's nothing to say she won't/can't change >>her mind. > >any suggestion she suffers stage fright (like Andy Partridge and >John Lennon - - significant factors in the lessened stage activity in >their latter careers)? > >James >-- > James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand > -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- > =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. > -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- > .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V13 #362 ********************************