From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V13 #278 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, October 2 2004 Volume 13 : Number 278 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: fegmaniax-digest V13 #277 [MPys2626@aol.com] Re: fegmaniax-digest V13 #277 [James Dignan ] UK Fegs ["Brian" ] Re: respect [James Dignan ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V13 #277 [Miles Goosens ] Re: Birthday [Barbara Soutar ] robyn at Cottier's ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Birthday [2fs ] Re: Respect [2fs ] RE: Armageddon/Westerly fegs ["Brian Hoare" ] [none] [M R Godwin ] Free music, as in beer [John Irvine ] Re: Free music, as in beer [Miles Goosens ] RE: Free music, as in beer ["Marc Alberts" ] RE: Heh :) [Eb ] billboard article [bisontentacle ] Re: Respect [Vendren ] Re: Free music, as in beer [Miles Goosens ] Re: Respect [2fs ] Best...News Story...Ever ["The Mammal Brain" ] Re: Free music, as in beer [Miles Goosens ] Re: Hooks (was: RE: Respect) [2fs ] Re: Free music, as in beer [Aaron Lowe ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:35:47 EDT From: MPys2626@aol.com Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V13 #277 Well then ... FUCK OFF to ALL ..birthday or not!(insert winky face icon here) ...seriously, happy birthday you two! m > > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:56 -0400 > From: Barbara Soutar > Subject: Birthday > > Eb said: > > "It's my birthday, incidentally." > > Mine too. Nobody told ME to fuck off though (sad face icon goes here) > > Barbara Soutar > Victoria, BC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:46:07 +1200 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V13 #277 >I'm pleased to say that the Bristol and Glastonbury dates no longer show a >double booking: I'm >definitely up for Bristol, and if it's brilliant I might go to Glastonbury >as well. I notice that it says "British _October_ Tour" (though it >includes December dates) but "US _Solo_ tour". With luck that could be >interpreted as meaning we will get a proper backing band in the UK. either that or he's doing a faithful live reproduction of one of U2's early albums, like was done with the White Album and the Dylan concert. BTW, am I the only one who thinks that Beatles repro concert should have been called "The Wight Album"? >Richard Avedon. damn. another great photographer gone... James PS - and a big "Fuck you!" to everyone currently having birthdays! - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 20:45:48 -0400 From: "Brian" Subject: UK Fegs I'll be in the UK from Oct 16-25. I'm not too sure what our exact plans are yet, but I know I'll be in Brighton the 16th to see Scarlet's Well play at a pub called the Open House. If anyone's in the area I love to see you there! Also if anyone knows of any hotels in Brighton, please speak up. Most of the places I've found have a minimum stay of two nights. Is this an English custom? - -Nuppy - -- Brian nightshadecat@mailbolt.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:47:50 +1200 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: respect > > A track like "Serpent," while > > a great tune, is rather generic sounding (it's a Dylan sound) and I don't > > think would have been all that memorable to anyone not already a fan. Too > > many bands make songs that sound like that for it to stand out. I do think > > that "When I Was Dead" could have made a good single - that's one that > > people seem to focus on when I play the album. > >Plus, what a great lyric about God and Satan trying to explain their roles >in popular music. To me, it's like a big satisfying gulp of coffee at just >the right temperature--purely satisfying down to my core. I often think I was wrong and seriously lacking in, erm, respect, when I added an extra verse of my own on the Glass Flesh version. Hopefully no-one found it too annoying. James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:52:02 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V13 #277 Same here - best wishes to all y'all parents-gettin'-busy-at-Xmas-in-the-'50s-and-'60s types. later, Miles On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:35:47 EDT, mpys2626@aol.com wrote: > Well then ... FUCK OFF to ALL ..birthday or not!(insert winky face icon here) > > ...seriously, happy birthday you two! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 19:11:30 -0400 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Re: Birthday Thanks to all who wished me a happy birthday Fegstyle, still waiting for spankies. I believe Robyn and I were both born in the same year. In case anyone is interested, my gift from my husband was a $60. gift certificate for my fave second-hand bookstore and amazingly I got a semi-random armful of books that came to $59.49. I felt like bragging about that. Also, one of the books I got is topical, as the list has been discussing The Band. My main interest in them is that they seem to have opened up a vein of creativity in Dylan when they all lived in Woodstock... The book is called "Across the Great Divide, The Band and America" by Barney Hoskyns. (Seeing as how they started out as Ronnie Hawkins and The Hawks in Canada, I'm quite interested in finding out how they became American.) Barbara Soutar Victoria, British Columbia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:54:00 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: robyn at Cottier's Robyn's playing the perfect venue; Cottier's, an old converted church in the west end. If anyone's in Glasgow on the 3rd, it woud be fab. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 22:55:04 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Birthday On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 19:11:30 -0400, Barbara Soutar wrote: > been discussing The Band. My main interest in them is that they seem to > have opened up a vein of creativity in Dylan when they all lived in > Woodstock... The book is called "Across the Great Divide, The Band and > America" by Barney Hoskyns. (Seeing as how they started out as Ronnie > Hawkins and The Hawks in Canada, I'm quite interested in finding out how > they became American.) Levon Helm, of course, was. And I agree that they seemed to stir something in Dylan, even though I like their own material pretty well (and Dylan's, for that matter). My long-standing theory about Bob, btw (borne out somewhat by his last two) is that he needs a band to kick his ass. I still think it would be wonderful if he recorded with a younger, tougher band - in fact, someone like The White Stripes, or at any rate, I'm thinking along those stylistic lines. Sure he's an old dude and can't be expected to "rock out" in the FM radio sense...but really, as the last two records show, one of his most comfortable guises is the old, grizzled bluesman - - and a band like that could do that plus add a bit more spark and abrasion just to keep things a bit more interesting and different from what Dylan's done before. - -- ++Jeff++ The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:01:26 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Respect On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:33:58 -0800, Rex Broome wrote: > LW2D/2FFs: > > > > Plus, Who picked "Driving Aloud" as the single? It's a decent song, but > > > the hook of the tune (the chorus) doesn't come until 30 seconds into the > > > song, long after many people would change the station. > > > > I've always read that 30 seconds for the chorus was the *goal* - it's > > difficult to get to it much quicker than that. Anyway, I think that > > acoustic guitar riff is pretty distinctive - so long as people have > > something to latch onto, a song can be popular. > > I am kinda curious about the 30-seconds-to-the-hook rule. Do people really switch the channels after less than 30 seconds of something they've never heard before? I wish I knew where I read that - but it does seem kinda odd. I can understand people switching stations after 30 seconds if they don't like what they hear...but I'm not persuaded that that liking has to be for the chorus. There are so many other hook-bearing parts of pop songs. And although I doubt I'm typical as a radio listener, I think sheer inertia would support Rex's contention that most people aren't going to turn away unless they think something sucks. - -- ++Jeff++ The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 08:51:51 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: RE: Armageddon/Westerly fegs >From: "Matt Sewell" >Subject: Armageddon/Westerly fegs ... actually I'm currently growing my finger and toe >nails for exactly the purpose of escaping this doomed world... all I need >is to find a giant to pilot the thing... Don't be in too great a hurry, The ship Nagflar (sp?) is being built of nails, the giant who will pilot it is Hrym and it when it comes it signals the start of Ragnorak, Fenris is unchained, the giants come from Muspell to fight the Aesir and we're pretty much fucked in the processs. >Now then, Godders mentioned that he may make the Glastonbury gig (we're >definite for it - It'd be great to see you there Mike!) what about you >Brian? I just don't see ye Westerly fegs enough... Bristol is definite, I hadn't thought about Glastonbury but if there's going to be others going it sounds tempting. cheers, Brian _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 11:32:42 +0100 From: M R Godwin Subject: [none] Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 15:33:58 -0800 From: "Rex Broome" Subject: Re: Respect > I don't think I ever really knew until years later that Driving Aloud had > been the single, or even if there had *been* a single from that album, but it > is to my ears the poppiest thing on there, for what that's worth. Likewise. To my ear, 'Railway Shoes' is the poppiest thing on the record, and 'Arms of Love' the hookiest. Re 'Stand Back Dennis', it's a very inferior Egyptians show, including a broken string IIRC, which has been widely circulated because Peter Buck appears as guest star. - - Mike Godwin n.p. "Oh Atlanta", Little Feat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:45:03 -0400 From: John Irvine Subject: Free music, as in beer Howdy- Logtime fan and subscriber to the news digest. Thought I'd drop into here and offer y'all some free music. We have quite a few copies of our last CD gathering dust, that we'd rather send to folks who might like it. It's not moving very fast on Amazon or CD Baby. Take a listen at http://www.thejennifers.com/music.html We're sort of obsolete new-wave guitar pop feinds, a la soft boys-television-echo. If you like it, just drop an email with a mailing address and we'll send you one free (US only). This isn't a scam to get addresses or anything, just want to get our music out of the basement and into the hands of people who may dig it, while we work on our next. And I don't know why, but the gmail "sponsored link" that accompanied the last digest was "Support the RNC - President Bush needs your help!" Go figure, thanks, - -John I The Jennifers fers@thejennifers dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:29:08 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Free music, as in beer On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:45:03 -0400, John Irvine wrote: > We're sort of obsolete new-wave guitar pop feinds, a la soft > boys-television-echo. Shouldn't that mean that you're in now? I've lost count over the last two years of how many bands, good or bad, big sellers (Coldplay) or cult faves (BSP), have been hitting the Bunnymen songbook. Thanks for the offer; I'm sure you'll gather a bunch of addresses -- including mine, since the mp3s I heard sound great -- and very pleasantly Bunnymanish. Rex, it sounds like the Jennifers and your group, the Obsolete New-Wave Guiar Pop Fiends, would make a good twin bill. best, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:39:40 -0700 From: "Marc Alberts" Subject: RE: Free music, as in beer Miles Goosens wrote: > On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 10:45:03 -0400, John Irvine wrote: > > We're sort of obsolete new-wave guitar pop feinds, a la soft > > boys-television-echo. > Thanks for the offer; I'm sure you'll gather a bunch of addresses -- > including mine, since the mp3s I heard sound great -- and very > pleasantly Bunnymanish. Mine, too. However, they sounded more like The Feelies to me. Maybe it's just my poor memories of Echo and Co., since they were never really my favorites. Hmmmmm....Maybe it's time to pull Crocodiles off the shelf again and see if my memory matches the music.... Marc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:46:46 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: Heh :) The minimalism is part of what's amusing! Sheesh. And obviously, the site was conceived and erected within about half a day -- jeez, how much content did you WANT? Eb - -----Original Message----- So, uh, is there anything here but the picture of the Asshat-in-Chief and the Polish flag? I get the reference, but uh...kind of a pointless website innit? On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:48:31 -0700, Eb wrote: > http://www.youforgotpoland.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:18:13 -0400 From: bisontentacle Subject: billboard article a little late in posting but for the record... Poe, Hitchcock Rock For Votes As the Vote for Change tour kicks off tomorrow (Oct. 1) in Pennsylvania, London will have its own, similarly motivated event the same night. The English capital's newly reopened Marquee Club, now situated in Leicester Square, will stage the Time for Change concert, bringing together artists from the United States, United Kingdom and elsewhere to encourage Americans living in Britain to vote in this year's U.S. presidential election. Hosted by American singer David Poe, the concert will also feature Robyn Hitchcock, Ed Harcourt, Chris T-T, Elizabeth Harper and Imogen Heap. Proceeds will be donated to Oxfam: Make Trade Fair and Democrats Abroad, an organization that assists Americans living outside the United States with voting efforts. The London concert aims to stress the potentially crucial importance of absentee voting, especially in the wake of the unprecedented narrow finish of the 2000 presidential election. Poe has busied himself in the past year performing and producing concerts to help change America's leadership, including a tour of election swing states and a major youth voter registration campaign. - -- Paul Sexton, London ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:42:02 -0700 From: Vendren Subject: Re: Respect > I wish I knew where I read that - but it does seem kinda odd. I can > understand people switching stations after 30 seconds if they don't > like what they hear...but I'm not persuaded that that liking has to be > for the chorus. There are so many other hook-bearing parts of pop > songs. Not for most stuff on radio. These days the chorus is often the only part with a melody or hooks. I find this especially true of the all the hip hop and post-grunge stuff on the radio. It's one of my big beefs with the (highly over-rated) Outkast. > And although I doubt I'm typical as a radio listener, I think sheer > inertia would support Rex's contention that most people aren't going > to turn away unless they think something sucks. You'd think so. But what about the chronic channel flipping of your average TV viewer? The incentive seems to have less to do with "this sucks, what else is on" and more often is just "what else is on." That whole short-attention span thing. I've known some pretty rabid radio station flippers, especially while driving. Come to think of it, I don't know anyone who listens to the radio anymore, except while driving. Palle NP: Ivy - Long Distance ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:51:56 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Free music, as in beer On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:39:40 -0700, Marc Alberts wrote: > Miles Goosens wrote: > > Thanks for the offer; I'm sure you'll gather a bunch of addresses -- > > including mine, since the mp3s I heard sound great -- and very > > pleasantly Bunnymanish. > > Mine, too. However, they sounded more like The Feelies to me. Maybe it's > just my poor memories of Echo and Co., since they were never really my > favorites. > > Hmmmmm....Maybe it's time to pull Crocodiles off the shelf again and see if > my memory matches the music.... I think CROCODILES is a very good album, so this isn't exactly like all of us telling Natalie "get PLEASED TO MEET ME instead!," but I'd pull PORCUPINE, OCEAN RAIN, or the very representative sampler SONGS TO LEARN AND SING if I were wanting to sway someone favorably on the Bunnymen. (HEAVEN UP HERE is probably my favorite, but I don't think of it as being as accessible as the other albums from the initial run of the group.) later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 14:18:56 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Respect On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:42:02 -0700, Vendren wrote: > > I wish I knew where I read that - but it does seem kinda odd. I can > > understand people switching stations after 30 seconds if they don't > > like what they hear...but I'm not persuaded that that liking has to be > > for the chorus. There are so many other hook-bearing parts of pop > > songs. > > Not for most stuff on radio. These days the chorus is often the only part > with a melody or hooks. I find this especially true of the all the hip hop > and post-grunge stuff on the radio. It's one of my big beefs with the > (highly over-rated) Outkast. I don't listen to commercial radio...but Outkast's biggest hit, "Hey-Ya," is pretty much hooks from top to bottom, starting with that little keyboard hook (which, yeah, also plays over the chorus). I like that song, and another from the same album in similar style...but my experience with the previous Outkast album (ehhh) prevents me from buying what is almost surely a bloated 2-CD set. > > And although I doubt I'm typical as a radio listener, I think sheer > > inertia would support Rex's contention that most people aren't going > > to turn away unless they think something sucks. > > You'd think so. But what about the chronic channel flipping of your average > TV viewer? TV viewers are typically sedentary and doing nothing else, and there are (for cable viewers) hundreds of channels available at a click, many of which do not narrowcast in the manner of radio. I suspect most people listen to the radio in the car, where if nothing else, driving takes precedence (well, I wish it would), channels are *very* narrowcast in format, and changing channels requires lunging for the preset buttons, of which there are far fewer. So it's not as easy, nor as likely to produce something one likes. There are, even in the largest markets, probably only four-five radio stations that play any one person's favored format. All of those things together suggest channel-surfing would be less common among radio listeners than among TV watchers. I wonder if anyone's done any studies on this? The larger point, though - that a song has to hook listeners from the get-go - is surely true. We're just debating whether that hook needs to be a chorus or not. - -- ++Jeff++ The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:51:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "The Mammal Brain" Subject: Best...News Story...Ever Teacher sends feces home with 6-year-old Associated Press DALLAS -- A teacher is on paid administrative leave after sending a first-grader home with feces in his backpack because the boy went to the bathroom on the classroom floor. The teacher apparently was frustrated with the 6-year-old student's actions so wrapped up the waste and sent it home with the boy Tuesday along with a note, Dallas school district spokesman Donald Claxton said. Claxton declined to identify the teacher at Gabe P. Allen Elementary School. "It generally appears the teacher was trying to help raise awareness with the family," Claxton said. "It's just an unfortunate incident. Unfortunately, she took this course of action." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 15:41:50 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Free music, as in beer On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:57:35 -0700, Marc Alberts wrote: > Miles wrote: > > I think CROCODILES is a very good album, so this isn't exactly like > > all of us telling Natalie "get PLEASED TO MEET ME instead!," > > > Now you have me interested--instead of what? Instead of "Let It Be" or > "Tim", or was this a discussion of Westerburg's solo stuff? A friend of Gnat's gave her LET IT BE, TIM, and DON'T TELL A SOUL as a 'Mats introduction, which had a lot of us saying "Why DON'T TELL A SOUL and not PLEASED TO MEET ME"? > > but I'd > > pull PORCUPINE, OCEAN RAIN, or the very representative sampler SONGS > > TO LEARN AND SING if I were wanting to sway someone favorably on the > > Bunnymen. > > I might, too, if I had them. Alas, I never got into them enough to get > another album after CROCODILES, so I'll have to take your word for it. Are > they significantly different to the point that they would be likely to sway > my overall opinion of the group? It's discernably the same band, but constantly maturing and broadening their sonic palette through OCEAN RAIN. If you've heard "The Killing Moon," "Silver," "The Cutter," "Bring on the Dancing Horses," or "The Back of Love," those songs would give you some idea of how they changed going forward. And that group of titles makes me think that SONGS TO LEARN AND SING would be a good second purchase if you want to give them more of a chance. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 15:42:02 -0500 From: 2fs Subject: Re: Hooks (was: RE: Respect) On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:25:57 -0700, Marc Alberts wrote: > I guess we have to define terms a bit here: are we only considering classic > pop songs that follow the chorus-verse-chorus-verse types of structures, or > are we considering all songs that fall into what we would now call popular > music regardless of structure? After all, if we're going to go with > non-traditional structures, plenty of songs with hooks these days meander > around without having any discernable chorus, or the chorus might be only a > gathering point in the song where the band regroups before taking it to the > next change and so a rather transitory spot in the song rather than a focal > point. Whoever brought it up was talking about chart songs - not just "popular" music generally (most of which, of course, isn't very popular) - or at least, that was the implication (it was whether choosing "Driving Aloud (Radio Storm)" was a good choice for _Respect_'s single). I also think the answer's changed over the years, with various eras allowing greater or lesser challenge to the ears... - -- ++Jeff++ The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:53:54 -0500 From: Aaron Lowe Subject: Re: Free music, as in beer At 03:41 PM 10/2/2004, Miles Goosens wrote: >A friend of Gnat's gave her LET IT BE, TIM, and DON'T TELL A SOUL as a >'Mats introduction.... I've seen this over the years (the use of the term "Mats" to mean The Replacements), and I've never really understood it. I'm not really a Replacements fan (I think I do own _Don't Tell a Soul_), but I'm curious. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V13 #278 ********************************