From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V13 #239 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, August 23 2004 Volume 13 : Number 239 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Obama [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Let's get us some oil [steve ] Re: Obama [not] ["Fortissimo" ] Re: Obama [not] [Jeff Dwarf ] The Panamanian National Anthem* [James Dignan ] Re: The Panamanian National Anthem* ["Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Obama FSThomas wrote: > Well, shit, man! If we're stealing all that oil > (because, you know, that's why we went), then it must be > Halliburton and G.W. doing some price gouging on all > that oil we're *stealing* from the millions of > dead, liberated Iraqis, right? ===== "'Bushworld' is sort of an alternate universe where things are the opposite of what they seem. President Bush said the other day, 'It is a ridiculous notion to assert that because the United States is on the offensive, more people want to hurt us. We are on the offensive because people do want to hurt us.' I mean that is a perfect 'Bushworld' quote. It's not true and it's nonsensical. It's the opposite of what is true. His new campaign motto is 'America is safer. Be afraid, be very afraid.' Everything is an oxymoron." -- Maureen Dowd _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 06:42:12 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Let's get us some oil On Aug 21, 2004, at 8:16 PM, FSThomas wrote: > Well, shit, man! If we're stealing all that oil (because, you know, > that's why we went), then it must be Halliburton and G.W. doing some > price gouging on all that oil we're *stealing* from the millions of > dead, liberated Iraqis, right? The Bush bunch is filthy in just about any way you could imagine, but I wouldn't argue that his primary motivation for the invasion of Iraq was to steal oil. There are so many other things for which to criticize his administration, even if you thought the invasion was a good idea ( which I didn't). - - Steve __________ Variety reveals that Disney is negotiating with Yuen Wo Ping, choreographer of groundbreaking actioners The Matrix and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, to helm a live-action take on Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Penned by scribes Josh Harman and Scott Elder, the Snow update is set in the 1890s and follows a woman who returns home to Hong Kong to attend her father's funeral after 20 years abroad. She discovers that her stepmother is plotting against her and escapes to mainland China, where she seeks solace with seven Shao Lin monks who, in turn, come to believe the woman holds the fate of the world in her hands and protect her. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:06:46 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: Obama [not] On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:16:42 -0400, "FSThomas" said: > I mean, if we hadn't of gone over there, deposed Saddam, and started > stealing all the Iraqi oil then we might have gotten stuck paying OPEC > rate of almost $50 a barrel like all the other suckers... > > ...Wait a minute...We ARE paying that much! > > Well, shit, man! If we're stealing all that oil (because, you know, > that's why we went), then it must be Halliburton and G.W. doing some > price gouging on all that oil we're *stealing* from the millions of > dead, liberated Iraqis, right? Halliburton? Price-gouging? I'm shocked - shocked! - that you'd even suggest such a thing! Ensuring access to oil does not mean ensuring low prices to consumers, certainly not in the short term. But much evidence suggests that access to oil was an important component of US strategy in Iraq - from which facilities were saved and not destroyed (and most previously state-run enterprises have been either destroyed or neglected) to which were most secured. I'm not sure why (or if, given that, following my own usage, you're using a purposely sarcastic, humorous tone) you think it's so unlikely that oil was one motivation for invading Iraq. From a realpolitik viewpoint, it's about the *only* reason to have done so - and every other rationale offered by the administration is transparently false or laughable. Problems with the WMD issue are, of course, well-rehearsed by this point; "democracy" doesn't hold water, given the number of grossly undemocratic nations supported by the US (Pakistan, Gabon, etc.). The other rationale, held by Bush most likely, is evangelical: Bush believes the US plays a role in the Middle East in biblically predicted endtimes. But that's not all that relevant - the documentation that Iraq was a target for years and years is exceedingly well-documented (PNAC etc.). - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: "In two thousand years, they'll still be looking for Elvis - :: this is nothing new," said the priest. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:10:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Obama [not] Fortissimo wrote: > From a realpolitik viewpoint, [oil]'s about the *only* > reason to have done so - and every other rationale > offered by the administration is transparently false or > laughable. [snip] > The other rationale, held by Bush most likely, is > evangelical: Bush believes the US plays a role in the > Middle East in biblically predicted endtimes. But that's > not all that relevant - the documentation that Iraq > was a target for years and years is exceedingly > well-documented (PNAC etc.). There is one other: good old fashioned revenge. For the assassination plot against HW. For his getting uppity in 1990 after being a good little puppet. Shit, some of them probably blame Saddam Hussein for HW not being re-elected almost as much as Clinton or Ross Perot. As for the oil, I don't doubt it's a factor. But it also wouldn't surprise me much if it's almost subconscious, that the Bushistas themselves are actually in denial that it was a factor, just like they are in denial that the Saudi and Pakistani governments should in no way be considered our friends, even though they think they are out bestest friends in the whole whirrled. ===== "'Bushworld' is sort of an alternate universe where things are the opposite of what they seem. President Bush said the other day, 'It is a ridiculous notion to assert that because the United States is on the offensive, more people want to hurt us. We are on the offensive because people do want to hurt us.' I mean that is a perfect 'Bushworld' quote. It's not true and it's nonsensical. It's the opposite of what is true. His new campaign motto is 'America is safer. Be afraid, be very afraid.' Everything is an oxymoron." -- Maureen Dowd Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:00:34 +1200 From: James Dignan Subject: The Panamanian National Anthem* Whee! Just got up to the heaviest snowfall Dunedin has had in at least 18 years (I still remember the 1986 one) - four inches out there and still going - and this is at sea level and close to the beach. I know that's not much by UK, Canasda or northern US standards, but it's only the third time snow has settled here this century (last time was a week ago). I'm supposed to be out doing arts reviews at the moment, but I managed to put the car through a 360 degree turn 150 metres from home, so I ain't goin'! James * "I'm dreaming of a wide isthmus" - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:05:49 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: The Panamanian National Anthem* James Dignan wrote: > > * "I'm dreaming of a wide isthmus" Could be worse, like the one about the grandmasters showing off in the lobby of a large, quiet hotel: "Chess nuts boasting in an open foyer". Stewart ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V13 #239 ********************************