From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V13 #213 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, July 20 2004 Volume 13 : Number 213 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ???NZ rapper used for US ad??? ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: zappa for beginners [FSThomas ] Re: zappa for beginners [Ken Weingold ] Re: life imitates parody [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: beermaniax: a stout stout ["Brian" ] Re: beermaniax: a stout stout [Ken Weingold ] Re: beermaniax: a stout stout ["Brian" ] Re: life imitates parody ["Jason R. Thornton" ] IT professionals' music preferences ["Jason R. Thornton" ] RE: zappa for beginners ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: zappa for beginners [Aaron Mandel ] Re: life imitates parody [Barbara Soutar ] Surrey down: Laura Nyro [Barbara Soutar ] Re: life imitates parody [UglyNoraGrrl@aol.com] Re: life imitates parody ["Fortissimo" ] RE: zappa for beginners ["Maximilian Lang" ] RE: Incredible new artist! ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: zappa for beginners [The Great Quail ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:39:39 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: ???NZ rapper used for US ad??? Matt Sewell wrote: > > marmite is a minority interest C'mon now, what sane person would feed brownish old-beer-smelling salty gunge to their children *except* those who had brownish old-beer-smelling salty gunge fed to them when they were children? It's indoctrination, and nothing more. There are two substances that remind me of marmite: * lychepodium (sp?), an obsolete unguent used for drawing boils * stuffing box grease, a tarry brown goo used for sealing moving junctions in steamlines and pumps. I'd probably prefer either of them on toast to marmite. > bloody iconoclast! That's *Mr* Bloody Iconoclast to you, Norm. Stewart - -- np: Curtis Mayfield -- Little Child Running Wild ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:41:26 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: zappa for beginners Any recommendations for a Zappa neophyte? cheers, Stewart (the iconoclast) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:11:44 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: zappa for beginners Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Any recommendations for a Zappa neophyte? Personal favorites: Sheik Yerbouti Joe's Garage Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation (though I don't think they're offering this one as a double anymore, so you might have to opt for them individually...) - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:30:32 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: zappa for beginners On Tue, Jul 20, 2004, FSThomas wrote: > Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Any recommendations for a Zappa neophyte? > > Personal favorites: > > Sheik Yerbouti > Joe's Garage I would have said these two as well. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:13:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: life imitates parody Jonathan Fetter wrote: > > Anyway, the proper, most current politically correct > > term is "Males of Girliness." Arnie really should > > stay on top of things if he wants to be taken > > seriously. And of course, the Demo idjits fall for the bait and start complaining about it instead of just dismissing it as the temper tantrum it was.... > This seems to be a current trend in Republican dirty > tricks/politics. Some are seeking to portray > Kerry/Edwards as metrosexuals, based partly on the fact > that Kerry has (or had at some point) his nails done. > I'm sure the pics of them hugging didn't help. Funny how when Whoopi Goldberg tells some (no doubt lame) jokes about Bush's name, it's an outrage and she has to lose commercial endorsements, but Dennis Miller making lame quips about Kerry and Edwards being gay lovers doesn't merit similar a reaction. > Now Jack Ryan, there's a real man. Or Dick Cheney. Nothing says manly like selling out your daughter for political expediency. Sorry Mary, no equal human rights for you. > Better metrosexual than idiot, IMO. > Jon ===== "Life is just a series of dogs." -- George Carlin "I'm going to keep playing music until somebody shoots me." -- Scott McCaughey "It would not now surprise me in the least if, one night on TV, right there during The Memo, [Bill] O'Reilly declared himself to be the Grand Duchess Anastasia." -- Charles Pierce on MSNBC.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:35:18 -0400 From: "Brian" Subject: Re: beermaniax: a stout stout On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:59:09 -0500, "Dolph Chaney" said: > holy shit, have you had Lion brand stout? 8%, and The Other Michael > Jackson (The Zymurgist Not The Terpsichorean Pedophile) is on the > box. Wowie zowie, I am enthralled. Haven't tried that one, but my new current favorite is Bell's Oberon, which is a thick summer wheat ale. MMmmmmm. Made in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Here we go. - -Nuppy - -- Brian nightshadecat@mailbolt.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:46:18 -0400 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: beermaniax: a stout stout On Tue, Jul 20, 2004, Brian wrote: > Haven't tried that one, but my new current favorite is Bell's Oberon, > which is a thick summer wheat ale. MMmmmmm. Made in Kalamazoo, Michigan. One I have really been enjoying lately is an Edel-Weiss from I think Georg Schneider. German. It has a green lable and says it's organic. Delicious. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:17:25 -0400 From: "Brian" Subject: Re: beermaniax: a stout stout > Get yer album out, Mister! > -- Dolph Indeed. I'm locking myself in Weds thru Fri to finish up. If anyone has any ideas for indie labels that I can submit my stuff to, please let me know. I'm trying to decide if I should just self release it or not. If you're bored, listen to one of my songs Monochrome Setter, Bid helped me on: http://www.lazerlove5.com/music/grouch.mp3 - -Nuppy - -- Brian nightshadecat@mailbolt.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:22:27 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: life imitates parody At 04:47 PM 7/19/2004 -0700, Capuchin wrote: >On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > > And yet the movie "White Chicks" is still in the Top 10, and no one > > gives a flying fuck about that. > >I think there's an enormous difference between taking pot-shots at the >privileged and sticking it to an already put-upon minority. All whites and all chicks are privileged? It's naive and simplistic to merely equate ethnicity or gender with class, or social status with solely with groups. It's grossly irresponsible to attack and blame an entire race rather than specific individuals or institutions for class differences. At least, for me, the ideal that everyone of any creed should be treated equally and with mutual respect takes precedence over any class-warfare motivations. If good-natured, well-intended ribbing is accepted for some, then it should be accepted for all. >Essentially, "White Chicks" is about class, not race or gender. Essentially, even if it were just about class, that would not excuse the insulting stereotypes perpetuated by this film. It's racism and misogyny, pure and simple. If Billy Bob Thornton and I dressed up in drag and black face-paint and made a movie called "Ghetto Gals," people would be screaming bloody murder. If you start making excuses and exceptions because of class, you fight against the very substance of the reason why class differences based on creed is wrong. That merely opens the door for other excuses and exceptions. If it is somehow justifiable to make sweeping generalizations stemming from income trends, then it becomes equally justifiable to make them based on crime statistics. Is the movie really a big deal? Probably not. But Arnold's comment was much less so. Heck, it's not even necessary directed TOWARD "an already put-upon minority" unless you intentionally take it that way with the motive to mud-sling and attack the governor's image. It's the damn double-standard I can't stand. That said, calling your opponents "wimps" or "chicken" isn't really productive political strategy. You can't double-dog-dare people to agree with you. Of course, it wasn't really directed at his fellow politicians so much as it was the voters as an attempt to portray the legislature as working against the people rather than for them. Something you at least can appreciate. And, a backlash against an attack on their image is expected. But, make no mistake about it, the "reaction" to this statement has less to do with legitimate concerns about any bigotry the governor might possess and much more to do with painting him as a bigot so people won't vote for him again. > > Most of the people bitching about his comments make fun of his "foreign" > > accent all the time... > >Oh, you know them? Who are they? Oh, right, I forgot. You're the only one that knows what everyone else in the country is REALLY thinking. The citizens of this country are poorly educated, mush-minded, brain-washed sheep - until they think like you. Everyone really wants to be "progressive," they just don't know it yet. Hey, guess what? I live in California, and I heard plenty of hypocritical liberals, people supposedly above judging people on their national origin or their ability to speak a second, non-native language fluently without an accent, making fun of the way Arnie talks. People who would tear you a new asshole, and rightly so, if you belittled a Hispanic politician for his or her Mexican accent. People who actively fight for equal and humane treatment of people regardless of race, background, sexual orientation, gender or class - except when a person is a Republican, then it's perfectly fine to chuck your morals out the window. And, I consider myself a liberal, so I don't mean "liberals" in a conservative radio talk show host sort of way. I'm talking about so-called pseudo-liberals that pick and choose when and where they apply their standards based on convenience rather than living up to the standards to claim to expect from everyone else. > > Anyway, the proper, most current politically correct term is "Males of > > Girliness." Arnie really should stay on top of things if he wants to be > > taken seriously. > >I think the only people that take him seriously are the ones that have him >in their pocket (along with their great flipping wads of cash). Which is still a hell of a lot more people than those that take you or other far-left extremists seriously. Unless he agrees with you, he must be a pawn. What a joke. I'm all for criticizing Schwarzenegger on issues and policies. However, he's a hell of a lot more intelligent, and has loads more integrity, than people give him credit for. The "girlie men" comment was intended more as a form of self-deprecating humor more than anything. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:58:44 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: IT professionals' music preferences ' Training Camp co-founder Robert Chapman said of this "iPod anatomy" research: "I've always suspected that there is a strong link between professional and musical orientation, which is certainly confirmed by this research." ' http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/20/musical_preference_survey/ - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:54:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: life imitates parody On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > At 04:47 PM 7/19/2004 -0700, Capuchin wrote: > >On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > > > And yet the movie "White Chicks" is still in the Top 10, and no one > > > gives a flying fuck about that. > > > >I think there's an enormous difference between taking pot-shots at the > >privileged and sticking it to an already put-upon minority. > > All whites and all chicks are privileged? It's naive and simplistic to > merely equate ethnicity or gender with class, or social status with > solely with groups. Um, hello? Do you KNOW what this movie is about? The title has CONTEXT. > It's grossly irresponsible to attack and blame an entire race rather > than specific individuals or institutions for class differences. The film is about the institutions and the characters, while fictional, appear to be intentional portrayals of (at times) the Bush twins, Paris Hilton, and the like. > At least, for me, the ideal that everyone of any creed should be treated > equally and with mutual respect takes precedence over any class-warfare > motivations. Alright. > If good-natured, well-intended ribbing is accepted for some, then it > should be accepted for all. Um, let's just leave that right there. We could go into the reasons I think it's wrong, but I won't -- though you can examine why, for example, gay pride marches help people and white pride marches hurt people. Instead, examine the two comments. "White Chicks" is ABOUT white young women. "Girlie men" is about who? And why, exactly, is it disparaging to say men are like women? The assumptions that go into such a statement are all sexist and insulting. > >Essentially, "White Chicks" is about class, not race or gender. > > Essentially, even if it were just about class, that would not excuse the > insulting stereotypes perpetuated by this film. It's racism and > misogyny, pure and simple. It's neither racist nor misogynist because it doesn't mock either of those two classes as a whole nor the union of the two as a whole, but a subset that is the privileged minority. You'll find that the film contains flattering depictions of both white people and women. > If Billy Bob Thornton and I dressed up in drag and black face-paint and > made a movie called "Ghetto Gals," people would be screaming bloody > murder. (It'd be funnier if it was you and David Morse.) I think that's true, but it's because you're mocking an underprivileged set from a privileged position. It's like sexual harrassment. It's only a PROBLEM when there is a power relationship involved. I can hit on my boss, but my boss can't hit on me. > If you start making excuses and exceptions because of class, you fight > against the very substance of the reason why class differences based on > creed is wrong. Huh?!? I think it's perfectly fair (and IMPORTANT) to point out the relationship between creed and class. Sure, it ain't 100%, but it's common enough to likely have meaning. > That merely opens the door for other excuses and exceptions. If it is > somehow justifiable to make sweeping generalizations stemming from > income trends, then it becomes equally justifiable to make them based on > crime statistics. Sure, you can do that. Just make sure that it's not the powerful picking on the weak when you do your ribbing. > Is the movie really a big deal? Probably not. It's not, really. > But Arnold's comment was much less so. Heck, it's not even necessary > directed TOWARD "an already put-upon minority" unless you intentionally > take it that way with the motive to mud-sling and attack the governor's > image. Jason, you cannot deny that the thing was meant as an insult. And, because it was meant to be insulting, the Governor clearly believes that men who have girlish traits are lesser than men who do not. How can this possibly be anything but ignorant, bigotted hate-speech (to use the neologism)? Note that he's using a label for one group to insult another group. That means that he thinks the words he is using describe an undesirable type of people and to be like them is to be undesirable. > It's the damn double-standard I can't stand. It's not a double-standard, it's a whole different kind of commentary. > That said, calling your opponents "wimps" or "chicken" isn't really > productive political strategy. And not insulting to chickens! > You can't double-dog-dare people to agree with you. Of course, it > wasn't really directed at his fellow politicians so much as it was the > voters as an attempt to portray the legislature as working against the > people rather than for them. Something you at least can appreciate. Except when it's a blatant lie. > But, make no mistake about it, the "reaction" to this statement has less > to do with legitimate concerns about any bigotry the governor might > possess and much more to do with painting him as a bigot so people won't > vote for him again. Well, duh! You don't put my neighbor's bigotry (assuming he has some) into the papers because it's not a public concern. People don't make decisions based on my neighbor's views and thought processes. The whole reason to point out the bigotry of a public figure is to marginalize their view in public discourse. What would be a PROPER motivation for showing his bigotry? Intervention? He can work out his personal problems on his own time, the public's concern is with having a bigot in a leadership position. So the reason to point out his bigotry is to decrease his support base and get him fewer votes! Sheesh. > > > Most of the people bitching about his comments make fun of his > > > "foreign" accent all the time... > > > >Oh, you know them? Who are they? > > Oh, right, I forgot. You're the only one that knows what everyone else > in the country is REALLY thinking. Um, Jason, you're totally misreading me here. I don't live in California, so who are these "most of the people bitching" to whom you refer? > I live in California, and I heard plenty of hypocritical liberals, > people supposedly above judging people on their national origin or their > ability to speak a second, non-native language fluently without an > accent, making fun of the way Arnie talks. I think you'll find that people have ALWAYS spoken in an exaggerated impersonation of politicians. Do you think people who talk like Henry Kissinger when they are talking about bombing the crap out of people are mocking him for his origins? It's not like they're saying, "Ooh, I am Govahnah Ahhhnold, and I'm a big Ahhhstrian Ahhhsshole! Vood you like some veeenerschnitzel?" No, more likely they're saying, "I haave joost decimated anothah innah city neighbahhood! Ah'll be baaack!" Mocking someone in their own voice isn't necessarily mocking their ethnicity. > People who would tear you a new asshole, and rightly so, if you > belittled a Hispanic politician for his or her Mexican accent. This, again, is a class distinction. It would be mocking the weak and/or disenfranchised. Who is the most powerful politician with a mexican accent? > People who actively fight for equal and humane treatment of people > regardless of race, background, sexual orientation, gender or class - > except when a person is a Republican, then it's perfectly fine to chuck > your morals out the window. What about them? (I'm just wondering where the other half of this sentence went.) > > > Anyway, the proper, most current politically correct term is "Males > > > of Girliness." Arnie really should stay on top of things if he > > > wants to be taken seriously. > > > >I think the only people that take him seriously are the ones that have > >him in their pocket (along with their great flipping wads of cash). > > Which is still a hell of a lot more people than those that take you or > other far-left extremists seriously. Unless he agrees with you, he must > be a pawn. What a joke. Huh?!? There are lots of people who don't agree with me and are not pawns. Thank you for defending us, once again, from the straw men. I'll admit that my comment about him being "in the pocket" of the industrialists and investor class is a bit disingenuous... but only because he's a member of the class and it's very hard to be in your own pocket. He's mostly just self-serving. > I'm all for criticizing Schwarzenegger on issues and policies. > However, he's a hell of a lot more intelligent, and has loads more > integrity, than people give him credit for. The "girlie men" comment > was intended more as a form of self-deprecating humor more than > anything. Well, we should probably look into why that comment was associated with him in the first place. He doesn't have the strongest record as a supporter of women's rights. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:20:31 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: zappa for beginners - -----Original Message----- From: Ken Weingold [mailto:bofh@unix.vi] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 10:31 AM To: Where The Magpie Struts Subject: Re: zappa for beginners On Tue, Jul 20, 2004, FSThomas wrote: >> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Any recommendations for a Zappa neophyte? > >> Personal favorites: > >> Sheik Yerbouti >> Joe's Garage Ken came back with: >I would have said these two as well. The ones previously mentioned, Sheik Yerbouti, Apostrophe, Overnight Sensation are also recommended by me. They have most of his more familiar songs. I don't have Joe's Garage, so I can't comment on that one. It must be pretty good though with both Ferris and Ken recommending it. In addition I like: Hot Rats - It has Willie the Pimp and Peaches in Regalia on it. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:40:39 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Incredible new artist! Anyone heard of this guy Robyn Hitchcock? His sound is a bit derivative of the Decemberists, but I think I can hear a bit of Barrett in there as well. You should really check this guy out! Okay, I am really quite excited about "Spooked", and yeah, if anyone can produce a track listing, that would be beyond swell. The belated appearance of "If You Know Time" did get me wondering, though... has anyone close to the former SB's heard anything about that rumored live album from the last tour? With the band defunct again, I can see it going by the wayside, but it still seems like it might be a good idea to get those performances out there. In addition to IYKT, you'd probably get a few relatively obscure Side Three tracks, fresh takes on SB's classics, and the rejiggered Egyptians tunes (including what to me is the definitive "Chinese Bones"). Any word on this stuff? - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:10:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: zappa for beginners On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Any recommendations for a Zappa neophyte? I just got into Zappa a few months ago, and the best place to start depends heavily on what you're looking for... 60s freak: We're Only In It For The Money Prog clown: One Size Fits All Fusion jazz guy: Hot Rats Poppy Beefheart disciple: Overnite Sensation (At the same time, those are the four records I think would be most likely to attract someone who *didn't* like the style Zappa was playing around with. But if you hate funny voices, you'll need to ease into "Money", etc.) I'd advise heavily against Sheik Yerbouti and Joe's Garage as first purchases unless you're interested in the moronic parts of Zappa's social commentary or his guitar wanking. Some of the guitar wanking isn't bad, actually, but with those albums it took on a life of its own. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:12:40 -0400 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Re: life imitates parody "Anyway, the proper, most current politically correct term is "Males of Girliness." Arnie really should stay on top of things if he wants to be taken seriously." said Jason Hey, Franklin Roosevelt used to call Eleanor and her intelligent friends "she-males". I guess he was just joshing around with his macho buddies, trying to distance himself from her - people have always resented brilliant President's wives. She's one of my heroines so I've always slightly resented him for that. (I must apologize for a misspelling in an previous post - I spelled politician with an extra tit in it.) Barbara Soutar Victoria, British Columbia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:28:23 -0400 From: Barbara Soutar Subject: Surrey down: Laura Nyro Hey, I've explored some musical names that I remembered from the past and downloaded a lot of Laura Nyro songs. She wrote many of the songs that defined an era of rock music on the radio for me, specifically the late 60's. If you could use the word "seminal" to describe a woman's influence, it would be appropriate here. That lady could really construct a tune. She did many of the songs herself but the cover versions are what I really remember: Blood, Sweat and Tears: And When I Die Three Dog Night: Eli's Coming Fifth Dimension: Sweet Blindness & Stone Soul Picnic Actually, these songs are more ubiquitous than truly enjoyable. But what masterful craftswomanship! Barbara Soutar Victoria, British Columbia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:56:31 -0400 From: UglyNoraGrrl@aol.com Subject: Re: life imitates parody > > If good-natured, well-intended ribbing is accepted for > > some, then it should be accepted for all. > > Um, let's just leave that right there. We could go into > the reasons I think it's wrong, but I won't -- though you > can examine why, for example, gay pride marches help people > and white pride marches hurt people. That's apples and oranges. For starters, the intent of the two marches is entirely different. When gay pride marches stop being a celebration of queerness and start denouncing the straight life. Then they will be comparable. > Jason, you cannot deny that the thing was meant as an > insult. And, because it was meant to be insulting, the > Governor clearly believes that men who have girlish traits > are lesser than men who do not. How can this possibly be > anything but ignorant, bigotted hate-speech (to use the > neologism)? Umm, how about it was a joke? And a reasonably funny one at that. He was saying was saying they suck and chose to phrase it in a humorous manner that traded on the stereotype of his personaility. If he had said that the Democratic legistlators were a bunch of fags then i could understand the outcry. If Arnold was a Democrat governor and called he Republicans girlie men there wouldnt have been any controversy. Later, Nora Jewish Lesbian Librarian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:39:14 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: life imitates parody On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:12:40 -0400, "Barbara Soutar" said: > (I must apologize for a misspelling in an previous post - I spelled > politician with an extra tit in it.) She's a witch! Burn her, burn her! - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb :: --Batman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:14:50 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: RE: zappa for beginners >From: "Stewart C. Russell" >Subject: zappa for beginners >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:41:26 -0400 >Any recommendations for a Zappa neophyte? I like the Mothers albums. I think the Humor became off putting in later stuff, though I do have alot of that as well. We're Only In It For The Money Absolutely Free Freak Out! Max _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:19:26 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: RE: Incredible new artist! >From: "Rex.Broome" >Subject: Incredible new artist! >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:40:39 -0700 >Anyone heard of this guy Robyn Hitchcock? His sound is a bit derivative of >the Decemberists, but >I think I can hear a bit of Barrett in there as >well. You should really check this guy out! I prefer the Decemberists, they sound far more British. Max _________________________________________________________________ Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to Dig Yourself Out of Debt from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0407debt.armx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:51:37 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: zappa for beginners > Any recommendations for a Zappa neophyte? That's a tall question -- Zappa's catalogue spans from doo-wop to acid rock to jazz to classical to punk and beyond...! But I'm sure you are most interested in getting a handle on basic Frank Zappa, so.... Though I agree with the Fegs who have already answered -- "Joe's Garage" and "Sheik Yerbouti" are among his best, I think for the neophyte, "Zoot Allures" is a good choice. It's Zappa working in traditional rock mode -- very groovy, hook and riff-oriented, and just amazingly listenable; but it's still very Frank Zappa. "One Size Fits All" is also in this vein. I would also recommend "Apostrophe" for similar reasons, though it's more bright and eccentric than the above two. However, if you are feeling very adventurous and want complete immersion, go for "Joe's Garage." I also recommend going to http://allofmp3.com. They have almost the entire Zappa catalog, and you can listen to samples for free. - --Girlie Quail ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V13 #213 ********************************