From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V13 #164 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, June 4 2004 Volume 13 : Number 164 Today's Subjects: ----------------- ...and could you also send another mongoose? [James Dignan ] The last surviving member of the Tenspeed and Brownshoe fanclub* [James D] RE: fegmaniax-digest V13 #163 ["Brian Hoare" ] RE: The Paw-Paw Cardboard Digipak ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: iTunes Music Store - blech ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: squeaking of CDDB ["Fortissimo" ] Re: pedantry (both millennia and band names) ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: The last surviving member of the Tenspeed and Brownshoe fanclub* ["S] 13year old minds raising 13 year old kids [Jeff Dwarf ] Old People who caused fegs (Re: Lemon Jelly) [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Next Year's Modle (warning: now contains extreme home-audio geekery with prog-rock content) ["Fortissimo" ] Re: pedantry (both millennia and band names) [Eb ] Re: squeaking of CDDB ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Cult TV etc. ["Rex.Broome" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 02:03:18 +1200 From: James Dignan Subject: ...and could you also send another mongoose? > takes the hair-splitting >view that the Beatles are plural and Metallica are (they would say 'is') >singular, and then goes on to quote an interesting discussion on sports >team names which quotes William Safire of the NYT attempting to maintain >the same distinction, but then concedes that "just about everywhere else >in the world of sports reporting, this is not the case". but surely Metallica is the plural of Metallicum, so it HAS to be plural! > > As you gathered, I don't accept this idea of band names having any > > grammatical content. A band is a collective noun, and collective nouns >> are plural. "The charm of goldfinches twitter attractively". "The >> exaltation of nightingales fly high in the sky". > >See, that's just the british versus american view of collective nouns. >And it's here that I'd have to say the american way actually does make a >little more sense (whereas most grammatical rules are arbitrary). See, a >collective noun is a container for the individual items collected within >it and you refer to a container as singular regardless of whether you >specify what is or isn't in it. agreed, Jeme, agreed. FWIW, "Usage and abusage" hedges its bets and sez: "such collective nouns as can be used either in the singular or plural are singular when unity is intended, plural when the idea of plurality is predominant. Thus "Is the family at home?, i.e., the family as a unit, but "The family are stricken with grief at father's death", where the various members are affected. This might conceivably allow Mike's: "The group gave its first concert in June and they are already booked up for the next six months". In that the first instance regards the group as a unit performing together, the second, presumably, stresses the fact that it's the members of the group who are booked. I don't buy that explanation myself, however, and, indeed, a footnote states " a collective should not be treated as both singular and plural in the same context". James - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:14:03 +0100 From: "Matt Sewell" Subject: FEGgig! Fegs The line-up has been finalised - as you know, it's Oxford's lovely Port Mahon pub and music venue (my favourite in the city) on the 17th of June... still plenty of tickets left (actually they're not available in advance). The New Moon have confirmed, as has our very special guest Dolph Chaney. The news is that we've one more feg plus band... Ladies and gennelmen, would you please welcome... MickieGodwin! Should be a great gig - unmissable if you're on this side of the Atlantic! Cheers Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 02:22:42 +1200 From: James Dignan Subject: The last surviving member of the Tenspeed and Brownshoe fanclub* >TV Guide has listed its top 25 "cult" shows. What do you think? the usual barfable list of the good choices and the weird choices that no-one in their right mind would suggest (and that's from someone who hasn't seen half of these shows, or even heard of some of them). No problems with any of the top nine, 13, 15, 17-20, or 24, though. I'd have to wonder where Northern Exposure was. Then again, if I was compiling such a list I'd probably have both Due South and Hamish MacBeth on ther too, along with the Young Ones and Barney Miller, Red Dwarf and The Office. I could add The Games, Blue Heelers, and Buck House, but you've never heard of them. Actually, I have a couple of books of "Cult TV program(me)s", and the lists they have make interesting reading. John Javna's "Cult TV" takes the US perspective, and Jon Lewis and Penny Stempfel's book (with the same title) takes a more British view. The Lewis/Stempfel book is a treasure trove of hundreds of programmes, but names like Blake's 7, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Sapphire and steel, Space 1999, The fugitive, Charlie's Angels, The man from UNCLE, The professionals, Starsky and Hutch, Bonanza, Kung Fu, Batman, Thunderbirds, The Flintstones, Scooby Doo, Dallas, The Dukes of Hazzard, Thirtysomething, Allo Allo, Are you being served, Dad's Army, Blackadder, Cheers, Get Smart, MASH, and The Monkees all seem possible as cult TV programmes worth mentioning. John Javna's book lists fewer shows (still over 60, though), some long forgotten (what the hell was "The Many loves of Dobie Gillis"? Or "Super Chicken"?) some justifiably forgotten ("Gilligan's Island", anyone?) and some that should have been on the list somewhere, surely ("The Twilight Zone", "Mission Impossible", "The Beverly Hillbillies", "The A-Team"). James (* and also the Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) fan club, for that matter) - -- James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:28:10 +0000 From: "Brian Hoare" Subject: RE: fegmaniax-digest V13 #163 Re: The alphabetical filing issue. When I moved house back in feb I decided to abandon alphabetical filing and just put stuff in informal groups. Having less than 500 cds and a 50% surplass of storage space makes this practical. Now RH, RH&E, Softboys can sit side by side, likewise Ian Anderson and Tull,or Souxie /Cure /Damned I just made up the rules as I unpacked ,eg. lute music comes before classical guitar music (sub clumped by performer) but other "classical" music is in historic order from bach to bartock (sub clumped by composer). >From: steve >And it's true about reissues - the two Rhino Yes albums I just >purchased are cardboard foldouts. Relayer and Tales From Topographic >Oceans, if you must know. The cardboard foldouts only occur on the Roger Dean covers. The Yes Album and GFTO are in jewel cases, these two form the ends of my recent trip into rhino yes country but I believe that outside of this range the jewel case is the norm. BTW Yes is now filed with Caravan and Genesis. I quite like the card sleeves, what I don't like is the lack of consistency in some reissue series.eg. The XTC series is nice, even having the same design printed on each cd but the Tull ones don't even manage to have uniform spines. Did you note the generous 15 second contemplation time between the TFTO tracks? >From: Eb >Subject: From TV Guide >04. Farscape >[seems *way* too high...how many people even *saw* this show? I don't >know *anything* about it myself, beyond that it was on the Sci-Fi >channel] I would have liked to have seen more. I don't think I ever saw an entire episode as it clashed with early evening eating and childrening but the bits I saw I quite enjoyed and the last series was getting very weird. Had the recently mentioned geek test listed Chiana instead of scully, buffy, willow or 7 of 9 my rating would have been that little bit higher. Brian _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:47:47 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: The Paw-Paw Cardboard Digipak Fortissimo wrote: > Okay - and remember "longboxes"? When did those > disappear...'94? '95? > > Christ I'm old. I didn't mind the cardboard ones. However, the plastic ones were a royal pain. I don't miss them overall and am glad that the wasteful packaging is gone. Michael B. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:50:13 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Lemon Jelly James Dignan wrote: > > Both? did you say both? Tell me about the other one! lemonjelly.ky is the other one (it used to be their website, too). Tracks: 1. In the Bath 2. Nervous Tension 3. Tune for Jack 4. His Majesty King Raam 5. Staunton Lick 6. Homage to Patagonia 7. Kneel Before Your God 8. Page One 9. Come For me, tracks 3-7 are just plain fantastic. "Tune for Jack" has the "and a big fellow too!" sample, which sounds like Tony Soper from Animal Magic. > James (who occasionally has to be restrained from singing about ducks > swimming in the water) The original song was what I had to sing as audition into my elementary school choir. Unlike the words than Enn Reitel sings for LJ, I remember the words as: Every duck loves swimming in the sunshine Fa la la la la la, Fa la la la la la Every duck loves swimming in the sunshine Quack! Quack! Fa la la la la. There were many other verses about happy little critters and children playing in the sunshine. Stewart (whose grandfather would've been 95 today.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:57:52 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: iTunes Music Store - blech Ken Weingold wrote: > > I can get the actual CD cheaper here in NYC and do > whatever the hell I want with it. You can get it from allofmp3.com as CD-DA data (*really* CD quality) for either $5.20 or $10.40. Stewart - -- np: Peter Sarstedt -- Where Do You Go To, My Lovely? (perhaps the most compellingly repellant song ever.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:03:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: speaking of CDDB Lately I've noticed yet another annoying thing about CDDB, or about the idiots who seem to have entered so much of the data therein. Some of these folks seem to have used a program or script to capitalize every word in titles and artist names, so they don't have to bother with the shift key themselves. That's just a minor problem (though I do think some words, like the "of" in Can of Bees, should not be capitalized). But the really annoying part is that these same people have apparently set their software to capitalize the letter combination "dj" ... which is fine for DJ Spooky and DJ Shadow, but wrecks havoc with CDs in languages where "dj" commonly occurs in words, creating titles like "Desilusao Dum AmDJer" and names like "Dilon DJinDJi." What is wrong with these people? Are they really so desperate to be the first to submit a CD that they can't even spend two seconds proofreading? Well, I guess I should be glad to see that there are some people out there even more pathetic than me.... - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:40:37 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: squeaking of CDDB On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:03:59 -0400 (EDT), "Christopher Gross" said: > Lately I've noticed yet another annoying thing about CDDB, or about the > idiots who seem to have entered so much of the data therein. Some of > these folks seem to have used a program or script to capitalize every > word > in titles and artist names, so they don't have to bother with the shift > key themselves. That's just a minor problem (though I do think some > words, like the "of" in Can of Bees, should not be capitalized). But the > really annoying part is that these same people have apparently set their > software to capitalize the letter combination "dj" ... which is fine for > DJ Spooky and DJ Shadow, but wrecks havoc with CDs in languages where > "dj" > commonly occurs in words, creating titles like "Desilusao Dum AmDJer" and > names like "Dilon DJinDJi." What is wrong with these people? Are they > really so desperate to be the first to submit a CD that they can't even > spend two seconds proofreading? I think that, so long as they back up the database somehow, so catastrophic and/or malicious deletions can be recovered, they ought to allow public *deletions* of data as well as submissions. So many albums have multiple entries (not sure how that works) even when they don't have multiple issues, and of course there are the annoying error-ridden entries... If the point of allowing public to enter items is to distribute an otherwise unmanageable workload and encourage participation and public "ownership," then allowing public editing/deletion would only further that, as well as (one hopes) eventually allowing the good data to drive out the bad. Right now, for instance, it's hard to preview which, when multiple selections come up, is the best option. I'm sure there are ten trazillion problems with this idea, which several people here will be quite happy to elucidate for us all ;) - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb :: --Batman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:24:45 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: pedantry (both millennia and band names) Rex Broome wrote: > > ... Gracenote CDDB ah, you mean, "CDDB, a community effort stolen by Gracenote"? While we've been over the "The" issue before, I've taken the 'the_' prefixes out of all my mp3 directories on my H120. Makes browsing a bit more sensible. I'm so glad iRiver made their device a sensible filesystem-based appliance. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 09:28:28 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Next Year's Modle Jeffrey: >>Alright, so I got curious, and A/B'd the two editions of "Everything >>Merges with the Night." In fact, I created an edited version that >>restores the deleted two bars. Fine albeit terrifying work. New thread: geekiest thing of this nature (self-editing) you've ever done. Anyfeg with mashup experience wins hands down, but mine is pretty bad. I tried for weeks to download a copy of Ride's copy of Kraftwerk's "The Model"... I'd heard it on a tape of a friend of a friend's years back and I was deep into Napster and finally found it (under the perfectly unreasonably bastardized title "She's a Modle"). But I couldn't get the download to finish to save my life. Finally I got a copy that got the end of the vocal... and then dropped it onto Protools, looped the last measure a few times, and crossfaded it into the ending note from Kraftwerk's original. Yup. In my defense, a few people were hassling me for it. And, no, not ever doing anything that lame again. In that arena, at least. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:26:25 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: The last surviving member of the Tenspeed and Brownshoe fanclub* James Dignan wrote: > > (what the hell was "The Many loves of Dobie Gillis"? Or "Super > Chicken"?) Super Chicken (b)rawked. It was a cartoon where the main character was convince he gained super power when he put on his chicken suit, when (in fact) he didn't. It was full of set-piece terrible puns between Super Chicken and his sidekick. > (* and also the Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) fan club, for that matter) You know they remade that, with Bob Mortimer and Vic Reeves in the title roles? It was as good as, if not better than, the original. Stewart (a big fan of Man In A Suitcase.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 09:40:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: 13year old minds raising 13 year old kids Assuming it isn't just a sob story to get a higher price.... ===== "Life is just a series of dogs." -- George Carlin "I'm going to keep playing music until somebody shoots me." -- Scott McCaughey "It would not now surprise me in the least if, one night on TV, right there during The Memo, [Bill] O'Reilly declared himself to be the Grand Duchess Anastasia." -- Charles Pierce on MSNBC.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:54:46 -0400 From: FSThomas Subject: Re: 13year old minds raising 13 year old kids > Assuming it isn't just a sob story to get a higher > price.... > > Screw the little Terror! If I had a 13 year-old kid who drank a bottle of Dom I was saving, I dare say he wouldn't hit 14. Of course I don't know as though I would keep Dom in the fridge, but that's a different matter. - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 09:57:15 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: 13year old minds raising 13 year old kids At 09:40 AM 6/4/2004 -0700, Jeff Dwarf wrote: >Assuming it isn't just a sob story to get a higher >price.... I don't believe it. Who the hell opens champagne with a corkscrew? Oh... well, a 13 year old kid, I guess. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:24:25 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: pedantry (both millennia and band names) On Jun 3, 2004, at 6:13 PM, Ken Weingold wrote: > On Thu, Jun 3, 2004, Rex Broome wrote: >>> a further confusion - band names that are the names of people; IIRC >>> Polly Harvey is the individual, PJ Harvey is the band - so does PJ >>> Harvey release her, their, or its new album? >> >> And more fun for aphabetizing! Technically it seems that her first >> two records, when PJ Harvey was theoretically the name of the band, >> should be filed under "p", and all subsequent ones under "h". This >> protocol, of course, has been followed by exactly nobody ever under >> any circumstances. Next up: Iggy Stooge and/or Pop and/or the >> Stooges. Go! > > And don't forget Alice Cooper. > My sister would be upset. I also once caught a record clerk filing Jethro Tull under 'T'. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 09:19:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Old People who caused fegs (Re: Lemon Jelly) "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > (whose grandfather would've been 95 today.) Mine was 83 yesterday, and today he and my grandmother are flying to Boise ID for his 65th year high school reunion. 24 of the 67 people in the Meridian High School Class of 39 are apparently all alive and making it, with 2 having to cancel at the last minute. ===== "Life is just a series of dogs." -- George Carlin "I'm going to keep playing music until somebody shoots me." -- Scott McCaughey "It would not now surprise me in the least if, one night on TV, right there during The Memo, [Bill] O'Reilly declared himself to be the Grand Duchess Anastasia." -- Charles Pierce on MSNBC.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:56:16 -0600 From: "Cadtharsis" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V13 #163 > See, that's just the british versus american view of collective nouns. > And it's here that I'd have to say the american way actually does make a > little more sense (whereas most grammatical rules are arbitrary). See, a > collective noun is a container for the individual items collected within > it and you refer to a container as singular regardless of whether you > specify what is or isn't in it. > > The bucket sits on the shelf. > The bucket of brains sits on the shelf. > The bucket of blood sits on the shelf. > Same thing. > > Also, you've got your idiomatic singular thingie like this: > > That stand of trees is taller than the other one. > > It's just the one stand of trees, exhaltation of larks or murder of crows. Collective noun? I don't understand. The nouns are bucket and stand with prepositional phrases modifying the nouns. In sentences with band names, the noun is "The band", with the band's proper noun/name in lieu of "the band". The band is excited about its new release. Ergo, Death's Warmed Leftovers is excited about its new release. - - Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:00:02 -0500 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: Next Year's Modle (warning: now contains extreme home-audio geekery with prog-rock content) On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 09:28:28 -0700, "Rex.Broome" said: > New thread: geekiest thing of this nature (self-editing) you've ever > done. Anyfeg with mashup experience wins hands down, but mine is pretty > bad. I tried for weeks to download a copy of Ride's copy of Kraftwerk's > "The Model"... I'd heard it on a tape of a friend of a friend's years > back and I was deep into Napster and finally found it (under the > perfectly unreasonably bastardized title "She's a Modle"). But I > couldn't get the download to finish to save my life. Finally I got a > copy that got the end of the vocal... and then dropped it onto Protools, > looped the last measure a few times, and crossfaded it into the ending > note from Kraftwerk's original. Yup. In my defense, a few people were > hassling me for it. And, no, not ever doing anything that lame again. > In that arena, at least. But how'd it sound?. Curiously, one example of my mad mi> Subject: Re: pedantry (both millennia and band names) > I also once caught a record clerk filing Jethro Tull under 'T'. > > -tc I once sent a friendly chide to http://www.sixtiespop.com for putting Jethro Tull in its "T" section, and the nutcase running the site ended up sending me screaming, all-caps rants about his obvious correctness, then maliciously forged my address and tried to sign me up for six or seven mailing lists devoted to either spam or dumb jokes. All the while, *absolutely* sure that I was a laughable illiterate for thinking the band belongs under "J." What an *asshole*. I suspect I'm still dealing with the fallout of his spam-list manuever. I would enjoy hearing news about something very heavy falling upon him. And I just don't get why CDDB/Gracenote is so important to some people. I've used it a few times, but only because I was hoping to find titles for some hidden bonus tracks. In happier news, Creed is breaking up. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:02:39 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: squeaking of CDDB Fortissimo wrote: > > I think that, so long as they back up the database somehow, so > catastrophic and/or malicious deletions can be recovered, they ought to > allow public *deletions* of data as well as submissions. freedb.org has file versioning. Newer, better versions tend to drive out old ones. I'd strongly recommend it over Gracenote. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:20:14 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Cult TV etc. Cult shows per TV Guide courtesy of Eb: 25. Freaks and Geeks 24. Absolutely Fabulous 23. Forever Knight 22. H.R. Pufnstuf [hmm, I don't know about this one] I'd call it a "maybe", but I think a more functional entry would be Syd & Marty Krofft in general, especially since they had various "shows" which alternated episodes of different titles... heads you got Puff'n'Stuff, tails Elektra Woman and Dyna Girl. But really, the inclusion of this one points in an entirely different direction than the rest of the list... to purportedly kiddie fair with a weirdly adult appeal. You'd be in the the neighborhood of Ren & Stimpy, that weird (Bakshi?) Mighty Mouse Revival, anything that's ever been on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, any number of anime imports (Star Blazers, Robotech et. al.) and of course Rocky & Bullwinkle, which really should be here for sure anyway. 21. Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman 20. Twin Peaks [seems way too low on the list] Word. Top five at least. Generation-specific and tame compared to some of its descendants? Dunno. But you could make that argument about several other shows here... 19. Dark Shadows I do way to much work maintaining the master tapes of this show to not shudder to see the title. Which doesn't make it not a cult show. Just irritating. 18. Doctor Who Lotta stuff here that would hardly be considered "cult" in the UK... 17. The Avengers 16. My So Called Life [I don't think I would have included this] Too recent to call this one. Wouldn't something like "Square Pegs" be a more solid choice? 15. Quantum Leap B'guess. One of the more episodic things among the dramas here. Most of these shows needed to be followed fairly closely... this one always seems like you can miss half of the shows with little trouble. But I've never seen more than three or four episodes... 14. Beauty and the Beast O... kay... Kind of warm/fuzzy for this list. That suggests that quirky comedies are up for inclusion here, so what about Northern Exposure, Larry Sanders, or ferchrissakes any of those pay cable shows over the past few years that everyone I know is obsessed with? I've heard of more than a few Sex in the City viewing parties... 13. Babylon 5 12. Family Guy Undeniable in its cult appeal, but I still think it blows... 11. Mystery Science Theater 3000 10. Pee Wee's Playhouse 09. Xena: Warrior Princess 08. The Twilight Zone 07. The Prisoner Dude. They shoulda just bumped this to Number Six. Because, you know... 06. The Simpsons 05. Monty Python's Flying Circus 04. Farscape [seems *way* too high...how many people even *saw* this show? I don't know *anything* about it myself, beyond that it was on the Sci-Fi channel] Again, bias towards the recent, I'd say. The campaign to keep it on the air was really strident, so it gets that "rabid cult" label. Never saw it at all myself. Personally I know more people who are into Stargate SG-1 than Farscape. And you also really get more into the problem of representing the various sub-cults... they can't all be sci-fi, or whatever... of course following this to its inevitable conclusion might lead one to believe this list is lame, or even that most such lists are also lame. But I digress! 03. Buffy the Vampire Slayer 02. X-Files Dunno, the backlash against the way it ended is still pretty strong, so I'd rank it lower than 2 and dropping. What the hell is Chris Carter doing now, anyhow? Does he still think he can eke another film out of the franchise? 01. Star Trek Well... all of them, cumulatively? Sure. But for differing reasons. A lotta people love the original show for the same campy reasons they love Batman. That kind of stuff seems to have been usually avoided, which accounts for the absence of the Brady Bunch. I guess Xena could be considered a modern example of the cult-camp thing, but... - -Rex ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V13 #164 ********************************