From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #464 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, December 17 2003 Volume 12 : Number 464 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Spider Hole? I didn't even know her hole! ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: Spider Hole? I didn't even know her hole! [Eb ] Luxor- a rather fond review: ["Brian" ] Lolly of the Rings [Eb ] Re: Rock's golden boy in trouble? ["Brian" ] Re: Rock's golden boy in trouble? [Caroline Smith ] Re: A load of nonsense. [Mike Swedene ] [none] ["Fortissimo" ] Re: Luxor- a rather fond review: [Michael R Godwin ] Re: spider hole defined [Capuchin ] Re: spider hole defined [Ken Weingold ] Re: spider hole defined [Tom Clark ] Re: spider hole defined [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: spider hole defined [Capuchin ] Re: spider hole defined ["Fortissimo" ] one bile-filled, horrifying piece of crap ["Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Spider Hole? I didn't even know her hole! Miles: >>After years of seeing bootleg Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes fame) stickers >>where Calvin is pissing on the logos of various brands of pickup trucks, >>lately I've been seeing a sticker where Calvin is kneeling before the cross. >>My question is: how long before there's a Serrano-esque "response" sticker >>where Calvin is pissing on the cross? Anyone catch the LA Cucuracha comic strip where the character of Cuco referred to his business selling stickers of Calive "dissin'" on la MIGRA? Very subtle. My question for years has been how Bill Waterson feels about the reality that his character is now best known as the medium through which car owners express their petty hatred toward various corporate logos via a depiction of an excretory act that Waterson himself never even drew. I mean, is he more frustrated by the abuse of the character, or all the money he's not getting from those stickers? Has anyone ever done a sociological study on the history of those stickers? What did Calvin piss on first (smart money: either Ford or Chevy), and has anyone ever located the panel from the comic strip from which the image derives? Because I seriously don't remember him actually pissing in the strip. Certainly not getting that much air if he did. FWIW I'm sure there's nary a religious icon that hasn't been pissed on by a Sticker-Calvin at some point. Yeah, it's an invitation for someone to key your car, but what political-message bumper-sticker type thing isn't? Eb: >>I was also pleased that the keyboardist (using three stacked instruments) >>showed a bit more technique than the norm -- so often with indie-rock >>keyboardists, you can watch their awkward fingers and just *tell* they >>learned to play after joining the band. By an odd coincidence, my neighbor's band played on KCRW yesterday morning. Why is this a coincidence? Ummm, no reason, really, why do you ask? But Eb pegs a very real phenomenon... part and parcel with the "we need a chick to be really indie" imperative. Nothing against co-ed bands... it's a dream situation in terms of reining in obnoxious personalities in your band... but shouldn't you also be looking for someone who wants to, and is capable of, contributing to your music? >>Incidentally, Mac said this was his first time ever at Spaceland, which >>surprised me a little. I suppose Superchunk was always a bit too popular >>to appear here. Surprises me too... I've certainly seen bands there who were even slightly bigger than Superchunk ever got at their zenith. JeFFrey: >>Also, Rex, if you get tired of that band name and need a new one, I >>don't think anyone's using "The Pissing Calvinists" at the moment. Ehh, the other guys really like the band name... guess I shouldn't have come up with it if I was just gonna end up getting sick of it, huh? But as of today I do have a new title for the debut album: "The Ancient Game of Close the Box". - -Rex "can't make me talk about Saddam... umm... d'oh!" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:33:55 -0800 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: Piss Calvin Rex: > My question for years has been how Bill Waterson feels about the reality > that his character is now best known as the medium through which car > owners express their petty hatred toward various corporate logos via a > depiction of an excretory act that Waterson himself never even drew. I > mean, is he more frustrated by the abuse of the character, or all the > money he's not getting from those stickers? Watterson is definitely not pleased with the stickers. He wishes they'd go away and he would sue the producers if he could but does not want to incur the expense to the bootleg sticker makers down. Interesting recent article on what Bill is doing now: http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2003-11-26/feature.html/1/index.html > on first (smart money: either Ford or Chevy), and has anyone ever located > the panel from the comic strip from which the image derives? Because I > seriously don't remember him actually pissing in the strip. Certainly not > getting that much air if he did. I'm pretty sure it was Ford or Chevy. Someone on the Comics Journal message board http://www.tcj.com/ tracked down the original panel a few years ago and the original panel has Calvin planning something and looking back over his should deviously. His pants are pulled up and he is not pissing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:46:47 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Spider Hole? I didn't even know her hole! >Rex: > >>I was also pleased that the keyboardist (using three stacked instruments) >>>showed a bit more technique than the norm -- so often with indie-rock >>>keyboardists, you can watch their awkward fingers and just *tell* they >>>learned to play after joining the band. > By an odd coincidence, my neighbor's band played on KCRW yesterday morning. Why is this a coincidence? Ummm, no reason, really, why do you ask? But Eb pegs a very real phenomenon... part and parcel with the "we need a chick to be really indie" imperative. Nothing against co-ed bands... it's a dream situation in terms of reining in obnoxious personalities in your band... but shouldn't you also be looking for someone who wants to, and is capable of, contributing to your music? - ----- Uh, my comment really didn't have much to do with male vs. female members. I was talking about the predominance of dilettante keyboard players in alt-rock bands, who come off as if playing a two-handed chord would be completely beyond their range. Regardless of gender. And in this case, I was praising the Minders' female keyboardist for *not* being a faker. Oh, one other thing I meant to say about her: She has one of those "secretive, knowing smiles." It's generally kinda endearing to see performers wielding those. I approve. What neighbor-band are you talking about? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:10:50 -0800 (PST) From: John Barrington Jones Subject: Re: Spider Hole? I didn't even know her hole! > By an odd coincidence, my neighbor's band played on KCRW yesterday > morning. Why is this a coincidence? Ummm, no reason, really, why do > you ask? But Eb pegs a very real phenomenon... part and parcel with > the "we need a chick to be really indie" imperative. Nothing against That's not really the case with The Minders.....Rebecca (keyboardist, used to be the drummer) and Martyn (guitar, bass,etc) are married, and have been for awhile. With them, its more of a "we need a third member to really rock". I must say, I miss the Joanna Bolme era. The Minders were a four-piece then - I saw this one show where they really reminded me of the cast of Scooby Doo. (Fred=Martyn, Shaggy=drummer, Joanna=Daphne, Rebecca=Velma) =jbj= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:52:44 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Rock's golden boy in trouble? http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm17601_20031216.htm Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:55:17 -0800 From: "Brian" Subject: Luxor- a rather fond review: Sorry if this has already been posted! - -Nuppy - -- Brian nightshadecat@mailbolt.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:50:06 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Lolly of the Rings http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/0187-0192-/auction-7570516.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:02:35 -0800 From: "Brian" Subject: Re: Rock's golden boy in trouble? On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:52:44 -0800, "Eb" said: > http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm17601_20031216.htm Ouch! I saw the Von Bondies play Toledo at a local club called Mickey Finn's (how many bars are called *that*?), and I can testify they put on a damn fine show. If I remember correctly it was the drummers 21st birthday party show and everyone kept buying him shots. I saw him fall out from behind the drum set at least twice! -but still did a smacking powerful job hitting his targets. ha. Also saw the white stripes a few years back play at the same bar... but that's another story... - -Nuppy - -- Brian nightshadecat@mailbolt.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:17:00 -0500 From: Caroline Smith Subject: Re: Rock's golden boy in trouble? On Dec 16, 2003, at 6:02 PM, Brian wrote: > I saw the Von Bondies play Toledo at a local club called Mickey Finn's > (how many bars are called *that*?), > There is a Mick E. Fynn's here in Toronto. No live music though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:53:26 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: A load of nonsense. It seems to me: http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2306162 Max _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy the holiday season with great tips from MSN. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 17:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Swedene Subject: Re: A load of nonsense. - --- Maximilian Lang wrote: > It seems to me: > http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2306162 > Didn't Paul & John with Stevie Wonder in 1974? I think this is the boot I was thinking of: http://www.harrynilsson.com/album-27-197.html Oh well... not sure if I would want to hear this or not. Mike __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:29:17 -0600 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: [none] Ah, the great state of Texas... http://tinyurl.com/zlcm (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=10&u=/ap/20031216/ap_on_re_us/sex_toys_arrest_4) - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: crumple zones:: :: harmful or fatal if swallowed :: :: small-craft warning :: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:09:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Luxor- a rather fond review: On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Brian wrote: > Sorry if this has already been posted! > > -Nuppy Does anyone know who Brian Downing is? We need him on this list. - - MRG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:11:10 -0600 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: spider hole defined > From: Capuchin > > but that whole bit about the "spider hole" was just > crazy. They didn't give exact dimensions, but kept refering to it as a > "spider hole" and then they go on to say he was in there "waiting with two > other men" (or similar wording) and THEN write something like "the hole > was long and wide enough for a man to lay down". Yeah, that's really > informative. NYT Op-Ed columnist William Safire explains the term "spider hole": . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:11:44 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: spider hole defined On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > > From: Capuchin > > > > but that whole bit about the "spider hole" was just crazy. They > > didn't give exact dimensions, but kept refering to it as a "spider > > hole" and then they go on to say he was in there "waiting with two > > other men" (or similar wording) and THEN write something like "the > > hole was long and wide enough for a man to lay down". Yeah, that's > > really informative. > > NYT Op-Ed columnist William Safire explains the term "spider hole": > . If anyone wants to paste that or give me a public registration code, I'd be happy to read it. Gads, I'll be happy when we, as a civilization, are over this "proprietary knowledge" kick. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:24:30 -0500 From: Ken Weingold Subject: Re: spider hole defined On Wed, Dec 17, 2003, Capuchin wrote: > > NYT Op-Ed columnist William Safire explains the term "spider hole": > > . > > If anyone wants to paste that or give me a public registration code, I'd > be happy to read it. > > Gads, I'll be happy when we, as a civilization, are over this "proprietary > knowledge" kick. Yeah, that and the CNN videos that you need to be a member to watch or something. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:27:06 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: spider hole defined on 12/17/03 8:11 AM, Capuchin at capuchin@bitmine.net wrote: > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: >> NYT Op-Ed columnist William Safire explains the term "spider hole": >> . > > If anyone wants to paste that or give me a public registration code, I'd > be happy to read it. > > Gads, I'll be happy when we, as a civilization, are over this "proprietary > knowledge" kick. > > J. Done. Registration is free, btw. And the NYT doesn't bother you with promo spam or any other come-on's. I know it's the principal of having to register that bothers some people, but I've found the NYT site well worth it. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:31:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: spider hole defined Ken Weingold wrote: > On Wed, Dec 17, 2003, Capuchin wrote: > > > NYT Op-Ed columnist William Safire explains the > > > term "spider hole": . > > > > If anyone wants to paste that or give me a public > > registration code, I'd be happy to read it. > > > > Gads, I'll be happy when we, as a civilization, > > are over this "proprietary knowledge" kick. > > Yeah, that and the CNN videos that you need to be a > member to watch or something. The NY Times site though is at least free; you just have to let them send "you" the occasional e-mail letting you know about fine products and events they truly honestly believe you'll be interested in, if you ever actually read them or even had them sent to an e-mail address you use. It's annoying as hell though at least they don't charge you for the priviledge. ===== "Senator John McCain recently compared the situation in Iraq to the Vietnam era -- to which President Bush replied, 'What does Iraq have in common with drinking beer in Texas?'" -- Craig Kilborn "I don't think the Bush administration lied to us about Iraq. I think it's worse than that. I think they fooled themselves. I think they were conned by Ahmad Chalabi. I think they indulged in wishful thinking to a point of near criminality. I think they decided anyone who didn't agree with them was an enemy, anti-American, disloyal. In other words, I think they're criminally stupid." -- Molly Ivins __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:51:20 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: spider hole defined On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Tom Clark wrote: > on 12/17/03 8:11 AM, Capuchin at capuchin@bitmine.net wrote: > > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > >> NYT Op-Ed columnist William Safire explains the term "spider hole": > >> . > > > > If anyone wants to paste that or give me a public registration code, I'd > > be happy to read it. > > > > Gads, I'll be happy when we, as a civilization, are over this "proprietary > > knowledge" kick. > > Done. Thanks, Tom. Now, that article was one bile-filled, horrifying piece of crap. Phew, boy. A trial "rivalling Nuremburg"? As if a few hundred thousand people compare to 8 MILLION. I mean, human suffering is tragic and the murder of one is a terrible, terrible, thing, but this guy's got a pretty nasty agenda. We're talking about a difference of an order of magnitude. Saddam's crimes, should he be found guilty of any, seem to allege only a single order of magnitude more killings than Bush has ordered since his taking office. So perhaps when that trial comes, it will also "rival Nuremburg". And this article still doesn't resolve the seeming conflict of the CNN article that claimed two men were in the same "hole" as Saddam Hussein. As for his description of the term "spider hole", do you really think it has to do with dangerous spiders in the hole with the person and NOT to do with trapdoor spiders that literally use that described method of attack in the wild? Is this, perhaps, just an uneducated guess as to the meaning of the term from some military wonk who didn't know the truth? Anyway, this Safire guy needs to get his head out of Rummsfeld's ass, put down the cocktails, and learn how to deal with his pent-up aggression and hatred of humanity. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:17:37 -0600 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: spider hole defined On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:11:44 -0800 (PST), "Capuchin" said: > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > > NYT Op-Ed columnist William Safire explains the term "spider hole": > > . > > If anyone wants to paste that or give me a public registration code, I'd > be happy to read it. Here it is. BTW: Safire's excessive linguistic meticulism (!) is still on display. Just as one does not say of a baseball batter that he "flew out to left field" (unless he's Superman), the plural of "bigfoot" (meaning "important person," derived from the mythical Northwestern creature Bigfoot) is "bigfoots": there's no plural of "foot" involved; the word is its own entity with its own meaning. Steven Pinker goes on and on about this somewhere or other. Anycow: - ---------------- William Safire - "From the 'Spider Hole'" - published 12/15/03 On Saturday night, I stuffed myself on lamb chops and potato pancakes at a holiday party at the home of Don and Joyce Rumsfeld. Along with other media bigfeet, I chatted up Rummy and C.I.A. chief George Tenet, both of whom were in on the secret of the capture of Saddam a few hours before. Neither man even hinted at a thing. So much for being a Washington Insider. After the news broke Sunday morning, I asked a source in Iraq to speak to members of the Governing Council who had spent a half-hour with the prisoner after he was pulled out of his "spider hole." They described Saddam as "reacting aggressively" to the presence of the Iraqi leaders who were Shiites. He said to a leader of the council, Adnan Pachachi, a Sunni, "What are you doing with these guys?" One of the Shia leaders came back with "Why did you kill Ayatollah Sadr?" Saddam sneered: "Sadir" or "rijl"? This was a contemptuous play on words. "Sadir," which sounds like a name of the assassinated Muhammad Sadiq al-Sadr, is Arabic for "chest" and "rijl" means "foot." Saddam, murderer of hundreds of thousands of Shia who dared oppose his rule, didn't leave his thigh-slapping sense of humor in the "spider hole." Another useful bit of information is the origin of "spider hole," a phrase used by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez to describe the dugout hiding place in which the fugitive Saddam was cowering. This is Army lingo from the Vietnam era. The Vietcong guerrillas dug "Cu Chi tunnels" often connected to what the G.I.'s called "spider holes"  space dug deep enough for the placement of a clay pot large enough to hold a crouching man, covered by a wooden plank and concealed with leaves. When an American patrol passed, the Vietcong would spring out, shooting. But the hole had its dangers; if the pot broke or cracked, the guerrilla could be attacked by poisonous spiders or snakes. Hence, "spider hole." Those are facts; now to speculation. Democrats here are already saying ruefully "because we `got' Saddam, we'll `get' four more years of Bush." But that assumes that the Iraqi captive will now reveal weapons of mass destruction and his connections to Al Qaeda, thereby confirming the intelligence that the Bush neocons are charged with having cooked up to justify going to war. I think Saddam is still Saddam  a meretricious, malevolent megalomaniac. He knows he is going to die, either by death sentence or in jail at the hands of a rape victim's family. Why did he not use his pistol to shoot it out with his captors or to kill himself? Because he is looking forward to the mother of all genocide trials, rivaling Nuremberg's and topping those of Eichmann and Milosevic. There, in the global spotlight, he can pose as the great Arab hero saving Islam from the Bushes and the Jews. Under interrogation, he's not likely to rat on his fedayeen, lead us to his hidden billions abroad or tell the truth about dirty dealings with France and Russia. Instead, he intends to lie all the way to martyrdom. Example: Dr. Ayad Allawi, an Iraqi leader long considered reliable by intelligence agencies, told Britain's Daily Telegraph last week that a memo has been found from Saddam's secret police chief to the dictator dated July 1, 2001, reporting that the veteran terrorist Abu Nidal had been training one Mohamed Atta in Baghdad. Nobody disputes that a few months after Atta's 9/11 suicide mission, Nidal was permanently silenced by Saddam's police, the only "suicide" to be found with four bullets in his head. The prisoner will surely dispute all connections to Al Qaeda, along with charges that he ordered the deaths of what Tony Blair now estimates as 400,000 Shiite and Kurdish Muslims in Iraq. We are not finished with this remorseless monster; Saddam will have his day in an Iraqi court. But so will the ghosts of poison-gassed Halabja and Iraqi children forced to clear minefields in Iran. The meticulous presentation of his offenses against humanity will demonstrate again that all that would have been necessary for the triumph of evil was for good people to do nothing. - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: crumple zones:: :: harmful or fatal if swallowed :: :: small-craft warning :: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:01:28 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: one bile-filled, horrifying piece of crap Here's a more thorough article on the origins of the term "spider hole": http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3191-2003Dec15.html You don't even have to register. >A trial "rivalling Nuremburg"? As if a few hundred thousand people >compare to 8 MILLION. It may only be 1/20th of the number of people, but it is still an almost unfathomable number of individual lives taken by this tyrant. The methods of death where also quite horrendous. And, as such, Saddam's crimes are comparable to Hitler's in a very real way. >And this article still doesn't resolve the seeming conflict of the CNN >article that claimed two men were in the same "hole" as Saddam Hussein. They weren't in the hole, they were running from the compound where the hole was hidden. The US military also seized a taxi, which obviously wasn't in the hole either. >...learn how to deal with his pent-up aggression and >hatred of humanity. Heh. - --Jason "another unmarried marriage counselor" Thornton "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:23:59 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: one bile-filled, horrifying piece of crap On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Jason R. Thornton wrote: > >A trial "rivalling Nuremburg"? As if a few hundred thousand people > >compare to 8 MILLION. > > It may only be 1/20th of the number of people, but it is still an almost > unfathomable number of individual lives taken by this tyrant. The > methods of death where also quite horrendous. And, as such, Saddam's > crimes are comparable to Hitler's in a very real way. Well, first, I'd just like to say that I hope the people on the jury (assuming there is one) aren't as fired up on accusation and assumption as you appear to be. Second, I think it's important to note that Hitler invaded several foreign nations and spoke openly of dominating all of Europe. He actively recruited top scientists for a rocketry program that would put the entire world in threat of attack. I can't believe anyone would even try to compare some pissant CIA-supported dictator in the Middle East to Adolf Hitler and the rise of Naziism in Germany. It's a whole different kind of atrocity. Now, if you want to compare Saddam Hussein to, say, early Pol Pot, we might have something closer to real analogy. Apparently nobody told the New York Times about Godwin's Law. > They weren't in the hole, they were running from the compound where the > hole was hidden. The US military also seized a taxi, which obviously > wasn't in the hole either. I wish CNN used some kind of keysigning on their articles. They've changed a few things in that link since I read it. That's a bitch. > >...learn how to deal with his pent-up aggression and hatred of > >humanity. > Heh. I don't know that there's anything funny about it. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:24:28 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: one bile-filled, horrifying piece of crap At 10:23 AM 12/17/2003 -0800, Capuchin wrote: >Well, first, I'd just like to say that I hope the people on the jury >(assuming there is one) aren't as fired up on accusation and assumption as >you appear to be. I just hope the jury, when they enter deliberations, can engage in a civil discussion where they do not attack the other person, and have no difficulty making assessments about Saddam based on well-documented actions, rather than making vicious verbal and inaccurate assaults on anyone else in the room that disagrees with them. >Second, I think it's important to note that Hitler >invaded several foreign nations and spoke openly of dominating all of >Europe. Even ignoring Kuwait, neither I nor Safire were comparing Saddam's attempts at empire-building and war-mongering to Adolf's. We were comparing acts of mass murder, the acts for which I, and seemingly he, think Saddam should be tried. Nuremberg is popularly remembered for the crimes against humanity indictments, much more so than the charges of waging an aggressive war. >He actively recruited top scientists for a rocketry program that >would put the entire world in threat of attack. I was not comparing Saddam and Adolf's weapons programs. Although, there have been assertions that Saddam was attempting to acquire or had stockpiled weaponry that would put significant portions of the world at risk. >I can't believe anyone would even try to compare some pissant >CIA-supported dictator in the Middle East to Adolf Hitler and the rise of >Naziism in Germany. I can't believe anyone would even try to play apologist for a genocidal maniac, or would dismiss away the murderer of 400,000 individuals as merely "pissant." You seem pretty fired up, making accusations and assumptions about the CIA, by the way. You also seem to be implying that the Middle East is less important than Germany or Europe. I hope you're not that racist. >It's a whole different kind of atrocity. Mass murder is mass murder. > Now, if you >want to compare Saddam Hussein to, say, early Pol Pot, we might have >something closer to real analogy. All three are comparable. > > >...learn how to deal with his pent-up aggression and hatred of > > >humanity. > > Heh. > >I don't know that there's anything funny about it. It's funny, coming from you. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #464 ********************************