From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #463 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, December 16 2003 Volume 12 : Number 463 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: REAP ["Jonathan Fetter" ] Re: Caught. ["Fortissimo" ] Re: Caught. ["Jonathan Fetter" ] Well, both Neil and Ian have songs called "Don't Let It Bring You Down", so... ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: caught [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Caught. ["Jonathan Fetter" ] Re: caught [Christopher Gross ] Re: Caught. ["Jason R. Thornton" ] and yet another book list.... [Marcy Tanter ] half-hearted Ebmaniax report [Eb ] Re: caught ["Fortissimo" ] Re: caught [Capuchin ] Re: caught ["Matt Sewell" ] Re: caught [Capuchin ] Re: Caught. [Jeff Dwarf ] RE: caught ["FS Thomas" ] RE: caught [Capuchin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:41:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan Fetter" Subject: Re: REAP Anyone in the US watch last nights' Nature on PBS? It was about the black smoker ecosystem--GREAT weirdo jellyfish, etc. > > The jellyfish exhibit is still at the aquarium, however, and if you > > haven't seen it... oh man. It's one of the coolest things ever. There > > are jellyfish in there that look like little dirigibles with lights > > running down their ribs. It's just wow. > > > > J. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:03:28 -0600 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: Caught. On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:54:14 +0000, "Matt Sewell" said: > String 'im up! Sell 'im weapons of mass destruction - it's the only sort > of language these puppet tyrants understand! At least you know how to spell it. I saw a t-shirt on sale yesterday (yes, already) that said SADDAM? WE GOT EM. Apparently, one must regard an evil terrist warlord in the plural. That's not as bad as the various redneck accessories I've seen that spelled the word "um" (as in the charming trucker-hat imperative to any female wearing pants to "drop um"). - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Miracles are like meatballs, because nobody can exactly agree :: what they are made of, where they come from, or how often :: they should appear. :: --Lemony Snicket ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:41:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan Fetter" Subject: Re: Caught. > He sorta looked liked the patriarch in one of those > photos of Mormon families in the mid-to-late 19th > century before they shaved him. I guess the question > is now, will the Bushistas try to frame him for 9/11 > or just try him for the motherfuckery that he actually > commmitted. A local radio station compared him to the cover of "Aqualung." Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:23:50 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Well, both Neil and Ian have songs called "Don't Let It Bring You Down", so... James: >>as to singles, (and videos, too, for that matter) the winner is: >>The Golden Path - Chemical Brothers & Flaming Lips Best cover of "The Puppet" I've heard in years. And oddly I just heard a track from the new Lips EP with Coyne adopting the same previoulsy little-heard Ian MacCulloch impersonation in place of the usual Neil-ish thing. As if to say, just look at me, with flaming lips, I'm living proof at your fingertips. Missed the Saddam news due to a long drunken night in a vast and haunted house. Either that or sleeping it off the next day; not sure when it happened. What do I care, I'm gonna be in West Virginia again by the week's end. Probably snowed in and not giving a shit as long as the electricity holds out. - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:54:42 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Caught. At 11:03 AM 12/15/2003 -0600, Fortissimo wrote: >At least you know how to spell it. I saw a t-shirt on sale yesterday >(yes, already) that said SADDAM? WE GOT EM. > >Apparently, one must regard an evil terrist warlord in the plural. Maybe they're including the doubles? Eh, I'm being charitable. >That's not as bad as the various redneck accessories I've seen that >spelled the word "um" (as in the charming trucker-hat imperative to any >female wearing pants to "drop um"). After years of seeing bootleg Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes fame) stickers where Calvin is pissing on the logos of various brands of pickup trucks, lately I've been seeing a sticker where Calvin is kneeling before the cross. My question is: how long before there's a Serrano-esque "response" sticker where Calvin is pissing on the cross? later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:59:46 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: caught >> Iwas rather perplexed by the pictures of them DNA testng the Saddam-alike. >> How exactly did they obtain DNA of the real Saddam, and indeed (considering >> this is a man who was known to employ 20 or more lookalikes to confuse >> foreign agents), how do they know which one is which? > >I'm not sure if this is a serious question or if you're just kidding >around, but either way, here's an answer: they probably compared their new >prisoner's DNA to samples from his daughters or other blood relatives, a >pretty standard technique from what I've read. I remember a lot of >discussion about this back during the "major combat" phase of the war, >when people were wondering how the military could tell if Saddam had been >killed in an airstrike. next question - if the tests prove negative, will that information be released to the public? Would the US military tell us "no, we cocked up - this ain't him"? To quote Alexei Sayle: "Would they? Bollocks." >I'm sure everyone agrees that Saddam being captured can only be a good >thing for Iraq. Not even the most fervent opponent of the war would want >to see Saddam or his followers back in power, right? true enough >But in my naive >hopeful fashion I think it may be good for the US too. Not only is there >a *chance* that fewer of our troops will be killed from now on... a very slim one, I'd say. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:12:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan Fetter" Subject: Re: Caught. > After years of seeing bootleg Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes fame) stickers where Calvin is pissing on the logos of various brands of pickup trucks, lately I've been seeing a sticker where Calvin is kneeling before the cross. Darn--that's another sighting...I'd hoped this sticker was restricted to one weirdo in my area. >My question is: how long before there's a Serrano-esque "response" sticker where Calvin is pissing on the cross? That'd take guts to put on a vehicle--I don't think there's anything in the Bible about not keying cars, sugaring gas tanks, etc. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:10:43 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: caught On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, James Dignan wrote: > next question - if the tests prove negative, will that information be > released to the public? Would the US military tell us "no, we cocked up - > this ain't him"? To quote Alexei Sayle: "Would they? Bollocks." Umm, I believe they did the DNA test before they released the news of his capture. They also confirmed his identity in other ways before announcing that they had caught Saddam. They aren't *entirely* dim. - --Chris now wishing I had with me: my iPod ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:20:00 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: Caught. At 02:54 PM 12/15/2003 -0600, Miles Goosens wrote: >After years of seeing bootleg Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes fame) stickers >where Calvin is pissing on the logos of various brands of pickup trucks... I've always thought the only way to really show the world how much I hate those "Calvin pissing" stickers would be to get a sticker of Calvin pissing on a sticker of Calvin pissing on some brand of pickup truck. Might still. My friend's 5 year old nephew started crying when he saw on the TV that US had arrested Saddam, mainly because he thought they said "Santa" not "Saddam." With the big white beard, I guess there was some resemblance. - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:24:46 -0600 From: Marcy Tanter Subject: and yet another book list.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/bigread/top100.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:44:19 -0800 From: Eb Subject: half-hearted Ebmaniax report I saw the Minders and Portastatic at Spaceland over the weekend...but with Natalie reviewing the Minders practically every month, there's not much reason to describe the show, is there? I'm also feeling a bit "beyond" the show already, because I'm having a dead-mouse emergency and consequently couldn't post about the show yesterday. The opener was a guy named Nik Freitas. I hadn't heard of him before, but he wasn't bad at all. More of a traditional singer-songwriter, who probably listens to classic '70s pop more than hipster indie stuff. Played both keyboard and guitar, backed by his not-too-charismatic band. His heavy-eyebrowed face gave me deja vu, and I don't know why. Like the Minders (as of late), he's also on the Future Farmer label. The crowd was pretty thin during this set, and showed the usual inexplicable "Don't stand within 15 feet of the band!" behavior which always characterizes light Spaceland audiences. Something about that large, egg-like pattern on the floor...don't step on that thing, whatever you do!! My primary reason for going was to see Portastatic's very first L.A. show. Except when you're talking Portastatic, you're apparently just talking "Mac from Superchunk, with an acoustic guitar and an occasional pre-programmed backing track on CD." I enjoyed his set, but not as much as the Portastatic albums (which are often every bit as good -- or better -- than Superchunk ones). The solo-performance factor was a minus, and it was the tour's last date and his voice sounded accordingly raw. The biggest surprise was that his second song was an oddball cover of Springsteen's "Bobby Jean" (which, coincidentally or not, is the only track on Born in the USA which I really like). It was funny how passively the audience responded to his announcement of the song -- in a different concert environment, the announcement of a Broooooce cover would be a big event. Here in the indie scene, not at all. He had some amusing banter during the early minutes (talking about icy weather back in North Carolina, smirking "I guess you had some hail in Compton...that's it, huh?"), when some amplifier problems delayed the start of his set. His set totalled about 40-45 minutes. No Superchunk songs, as far as I know. The crowd (by now, about 90% filling the room) was clearly here to see Portastatic rather than the Minders, and his encore-less set met with extended applause protest. But the club nixed it, and kept playing the PA music over the whoops and cheers. His final song was "San Andreas" off Slow Note for a Sinking Ship (my favorite Mac McCaughan release, period), and a couple of look-at-me numbskulls in the front row started loudly singing along with the choruses. I was not pleased. I didn't know Mac is married now, but judging from the banded ring finger and the woman sharing the merchandise table with him...it appears to be the case. This was my third Minders show, and the band has changed since the last time I saw them. I recalled a quartet, featuring the ever-lustable Joanna Bolme on bass. But now the group is a guitar/keys/drums trio, where bass lines are usually played by the keyboardist (cute-ish, but she's no Joanna). Martin switched to bass for just a song or two, including the opening tune. The drummer was unusually strong and powerful for a l'il indie-pop band, and he added plenty of visual appeal. In general, the group "rocked" more than their bookwormish appearance would suggest. I was also pleased that the keyboardist (using three stacked instruments) showed a bit more technique than the norm -- so often with indie-rock keyboardists, you can watch their awkward fingers and just *tell* they learned to play after joining the band. I don't have a lot more to say about the Minders set. I enjoyed the material, though the unvarying tempo/style made too many songs bleed together. Thankfully, their music isn't as explicity Kinksy as it used to be. They didn't start until almost midnight, and the crowd had already thinned considerably by the time they started playing. By the time they *finished* (about 50 minutes later), the place wasn't even half-full. It was definitely Portastatic's night. Incidentally, Mac said this was his first time ever at Spaceland, which surprised me a little. I suppose Superchunk was always a bit too popular to appear here. I had planned to buy the new Minders "album" at the show (I hear it's a mighty 26 minutes long?), but the merchandise table was actually selling it for more than Amoeba. Whatever happened to merchandise-table CD bargains? ;) After the show, I drove over to the club where Lawndart DJs. Hung out there until almost 3am. Arrived home in the wee hours, greeted with the Saddam news. Feeling a bit cynical about that film clip which gets shown over and over. Though he quickly shaved off the disguise-beard he was wearing, the news shows nothing but him in shaggy derelict mode, having his throat checked as if he's a guileless five-year-old child. Hrm. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:05:30 -0600 From: "Fortissimo" Subject: Re: caught On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:59:46 +1300, "James Dignan" said: > >But in my naive > >hopeful fashion I think it may be good for the US too. Not only is there > >a *chance* that fewer of our troops will be killed from now on... > > a very slim one, I'd say. I'd say, too, there's only a very slim chance that he'll receive a "fair trial" as advertised. Any such trial would also be quite embarrassing for the US, dredging up not only our support of Saddam in the past but also the very questionable legality of our invasion of Iraq. And if there's any sort of international aspect to the trial at all - necessary for the rest of the world to regard it as fair - Bush et al. will be unable to bully them as readily. I'm not necessarily conspiring a new Jack Ruby - but hey, accidents happen, fatal illnesses are suddenly contracted or discovered, etc. Minor irritation: the thickness with which the US media is laying it on. Sample: headline in the _Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel_ - SADDAM FOUND, COWERING IN A HOLE (first part paraphrased, second part exact words). *There's* objective journalism for ya. Oh, and: On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:54:42 -0600, "Miles Goosens" said: > After years of seeing bootleg Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes fame) stickers > where Calvin is pissing on the logos of various brands of pickup trucks, > lately I've been seeing a sticker where Calvin is kneeling before the > cross. My question is: how long before there's a Serrano-esque > "response" sticker where Calvin is pissing on the cross? There's a marketing opportunity for ya, Miles. Also, Rex, if you get tired of that band name and need a new one, I don't think anyone's using "The Pissing Calvinists" at the moment. . - ------------------------------- ...Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb :: --Batman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:10:07 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: caught On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Fortissimo wrote: > I'd say, too, there's only a very slim chance that he'll receive a "fair > trial" as advertised. Any such trial would also be quite embarrassing > for the US, dredging up not only our support of Saddam in the past but > also the very questionable legality of our invasion of Iraq. And if > there's any sort of international aspect to the trial at all - necessary > for the rest of the world to regard it as fair - Bush et al. will be > unable to bully them as readily. Oh, they've made it very clear that he's going to be tried in Iraq "by Iraqis". This will not be a an unbiased, international panel. > I'm not necessarily conspiring a new Jack Ruby - but hey, accidents > happen, fatal illnesses are suddenly contracted or discovered, etc. We'll see... If they can control the trial, they won't need to silence him entirely. > Minor irritation: the thickness with which the US media is laying it on. > Sample: headline in the _Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel_ - SADDAM FOUND, > COWERING IN A HOLE (first part paraphrased, second part exact words). > *There's* objective journalism for ya. That original CNN article was a doozy on this front. I didn't want to go into it at the time (partially because I hadn't slept in quite a while and partially because I thought folks might accuse me of picking nits -- which I'm all for doing), but that whole bit about the "spider hole" was just crazy. They didn't give exact dimensions, but kept refering to it as a "spider hole" and then they go on to say he was in there "waiting with two other men" (or similar wording) and THEN write something like "the hole was long and wide enough for a man to lay down". Yeah, that's really informative. So the floor spaces was greater than 6'x3'... but no idea how much bigger nor how high. It was not just a hole with a guy lying in it... he couldn't have shared that with two other men. It all just looked like a smear campaign... a deliberate attempt to remove any idea that this is a human being and should be allowed his rights. Sickening. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 10:40:00 +0000 From: "Matt Sewell" Subject: Re: caught Poor the Saddam - denied his human rights! Of course he should have human rights. Of course he should be tried in an international criminal court (which of course, America will recognise only if Americans have impugnity from it). However, I think that Saddam will probably do as many deals as it takes to save his skin - perhaps he'll confess to having an enormous WMD budget and say he hid them in Syria or something - a confession that would vindicate coalition forces' attacking of Iraq in the first place, then bugger off to the S. of France like all the other deposed dictators to enjoy his plundered millions. Or maybe they'll just hang him as a grisly feel-good factor for the neo-cons... Cheers Matt >From: Capuchin >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003, Fortissimo wrote: > > I'd say, too, there's only a very slim chance that he'll receive a "fair > > trial" as advertised. > >Oh, they've made it very clear that he's going to be tried in Iraq "by >Iraqis". This will not be a an unbiased, international panel. > >That original CNN article was a doozy on this front. I didn't want to go >into it at the time (partially because I hadn't slept in quite a while and >partially because I thought folks might accuse me of picking nits -- which >I'm all for doing), but that whole bit about the "spider hole" was just >crazy. They didn't give exact dimensions, but kept refering to it as a >"spider hole" and then they go on to say he was in there "waiting with two >other men" (or similar wording) and THEN write something like "the hole >was long and wide enough for a man to lay down". Yeah, that's really >informative. So the floor spaces was greater than 6'x3'... but no idea >how much bigger nor how high. It was not just a hole with a guy lying in >it... he couldn't have shared that with two other men. It all just looked >like a smear campaign... a deliberate attempt to remove any idea that this >is a human being and should be allowed his rights. Sickening. > >J. >-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help protect your PC with anti-virus protection when you sign up for MSN 8 . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: caught On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Matt Sewell wrote: > However, I think that Saddam will probably do as many deals as it takes > to save his skin - perhaps he'll confess to having an enormous WMD > budget and say he hid them in Syria or something - a confession that > would vindicate coalition forces' attacking of Iraq in the first place, > then bugger off to the S. of France like all the other deposed dictators > to enjoy his plundered millions. This is chilling. I didn't even think of that. Oh dear. That's scary. I was so surprised that nobody made a big deal about W's offer for Saddam and his sons to leave the country before invasion. What the fuck was that? If the whole purpose of the invasion was to get this supposedly horribly dictator out of the nation, why invade at all if he leaves? And if he's such a bad guy, why let him go before coming in? Should he not stand trial or something? It was all very fishy. We'll see what happens... they'll draw it out as much as possible, of course. Chris is right. They want to milk that is as some kind of victory in the Iraq fiasco. (Though it's not a victory at all if you consider that he could have just walked before the invasion and we'd still be in the same mess.) J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:59:20 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Caught. Jonathan Fetter wrote: > > After years of seeing bootleg Calvin (of Calvin & > > Hobbes fame) stickers where Calvin is pissing on > > the logos of various brands of pickup trucks, > > lately I've been seeing a sticker where Calvin is > > kneeling before the cross. > > Darn--that's another sighting...I'd hoped this > sticker was restricted to one weirdo in my area. I've not only seen two of them, I've seen two different variations of the Calvin praying sticker; truly sacrilegious towards both Calvin and Jesus. Of course, those stickers were never clever to begin with unless its just Calvin pissing and its placed over a gas cap. ===== "Senator John McCain recently compared the situation in Iraq to the Vietnam era -- to which President Bush replied, 'What does Iraq have in common with drinking beer in Texas?'" -- Craig Kilborn "I don't think the Bush administration lied to us about Iraq. I think it's worse than that. I think they fooled themselves. I think they were conned by Ahmad Chalabi. I think they indulged in wishful thinking to a point of near criminality. I think they decided anyone who didn't agree with them was an enemy, anti-American, disloyal. In other words, I think they're criminally stupid." -- Molly Ivins __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:02:44 -0500 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: RE: caught > Hell, I'm taking a pretty compromised line just by saying he > should be put on trial at all. And to the same end, Milosevic should not have been put on trial then? Pinochet? By extension, should Nuremburg never have happened? > > If it *is* in Iraq by Iraqis, then I think Blair hit the > nail on the > > head regarding the death penalty. While you may not agree with it, > > it's their court. Let them do what they want. > > It's NOT their court. Their system was destroyed with the > invasion. Whatever exists now is exactly what the Cheney's > people put there. I'm curious to see how, if they do go with an "in Iraq by Iraq", it would play out. They haven't got their constitution down yet, much less a book of laws to cover the prosecution of their former leader. > ...We had no right to invade (which is absolutely true). Naiveti. There's been solid reason for military action since the first transgression of the first UN resolution. I only wish that we had taken action on *those* grounds as opposed to the WMD question. And further on that point, if there were none, other than baiting the Americans, why wouldn't you allow inspectors in? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:39:36 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: RE: caught It would be extremely polite of me to call your public reply to my off-list reply to your off-list message merely "impolite". Watch what you're doing. On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, FS Thomas wrote: > And to the same end, Milosevic should not have been put on trial then? > Pinochet? By extension, should Nuremburg never have happened? We can talk about this off-list, of course. Let it suffice to say here that I am opposed to punishment. It is suffering begetting suffering. [Ferris - Me - Ferris] > > > If it *is* in Iraq by Iraqis, then I think Blair hit the nail on the > > > head regarding the death penalty. While you may not agree with it, > > > it's their court. Let them do what they want. > > > > It's NOT their court. Their system was destroyed with the invasion. > > Whatever exists now is exactly what the Cheney's people put there. > > I'm curious to see how, if they do go with an "in Iraq by Iraq", it > would play out. They haven't got their constitution down yet, much less > a book of laws to cover the prosecution of their former leader. If you understand that they have no government, how could you possibly believe that Blair "hit the nail on the head"? > > ...We had no right to invade (which is absolutely true). > > Naiveti. Hardly. > There's been solid reason for military action since the first > transgression of the first UN resolution. The Security Council didn't seem to think so. And I assure you they know more about it than you do. We can discuss this either legally or morally. In both cases, the invasion was wrong, wrong, wrong. Personally, I'll take morality over the law any day. > I only wish that we had taken action on *those* grounds as opposed to > the WMD question. And further on that point, if there were none, other > than baiting the Americans, why wouldn't you allow inspectors in? Are you one of those people who believe that only criminals would want to keep their privacy? What does the fourth amendment to the Constitution of the United States mean to you? I take it as a broad mandate of respect, dignity, and privacy. In the altnerative, would the U.S. of A. allow UN inspectors to document its entire arsenal? Most folks are insulted when you even attempt to discuss international election monitoring within this country. The military exists because of people with your attitude and the brutal regimes exist because of the military. Think about it. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #463 ********************************