From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #443 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, December 2 2003 Volume 12 : Number 443 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: off topic: i pod [Sebastian Hagedorn ] Rock and roll fegicide ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: off topic: i pod [Tom Clark ] Re: Rock and roll fegicide [Tom Clark ] post-turkey ["ross taylor" ] RE: Let's hear it for the artist [Miles Goosens ] Re: JfS [Eb ] (she cut me down to size... academia blues) [Jim Davies ] RE: No, I don't remember JfS ["Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" ] Re: A Can Of Bees ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: off topic: i pod [Mike Swedene ] cones! [fingerpuppets ] Robyn 10-31-03early bit torrent [fingerpuppets ] Re: A Can Of Bees [Michael R Godwin ] Re: let's hear... [Devin Lee Ens ] RE: Let's hear it for the artist ["Brian" ] Let's hear it for irony [Miles Goosens ] Re: Let's hear it for irony [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: let's hear... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:07:03 +0100 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: off topic: i pod - -- Mike Hooker is rumored to have mumbled on Montag, 1. Dezember 2003 15:43 Uhr -0500 regarding off topic: i pod: > i think there are some on the list with an ipod. my daughter wants one > for christmas and i have a few questions. does it pay to get the 20 gig or > bigger? seems to me 10 gig of mp3's ought to hold anybody. Not if you're serious about music. I've only got the 5 GB model and that's *not*enough! I'll get the 40 GB model sooner or later. Note that it's also a portable HD, so you may want the additional space for that as well. > she has a pc, > not a mac. i think the ipod comes with a firewire cable? should i > purchase the USB cable or blow that money on a firewire card? Does her PC have USB 2.0? If not, FireWire is the only way to go. USB 1.1 is way too slow. - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156, 50823 Kvln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ "Being just contaminates the void" - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:23:15 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Rock and roll fegicide Jeme: >>The brain is just good enough to provide a functional view of the world >>that prevents suicidal activity (though it doesn't seem to take much to push >>a functioning brain into this malfunctioning territory Sure doesn't. I'm mixing up the Kool-Aid right now. Who's with me? Wheeeeeee! - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 13:26:00 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: off topic: i pod on 12/1/03 12:43 PM, Mike Hooker at mhooker@optonline.net wrote: > hi, > i think there are some on the list with an ipod. my daughter wants one > for christmas and i have a few questions. does it pay to get the 20 gig or > bigger? seems to me 10 gig of mp3's ought to hold anybody. she has a pc, not > a mac. i think the ipod comes with a firewire cable? should i purchase the > USB cable or blow that money on a firewire card? lastly, whats a good place, > good price to buy one? > One advantage of the 20G & 40G models is that they come with a dock and carrying case. I've got a 10G, which is fine for storing the music I want to take with me. As far as pricing, Apple uses a fixed pricing model, so you're not going to find a lot of different prices out there. Some retailers get around this by charging the same, but adding extras, like "buy and iMac for suggested retail, and get a free printer or more RAM". Hope this helps. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 13:29:25 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Rock and roll fegicide on 12/1/03 1:23 PM, Rex.Broome at Rex.Broome@preferredmedia.com wrote: > Jeme: >>> The brain is just good enough to provide a functional view of the world >>> that prevents suicidal activity (though it doesn't seem to take much to push >>> a functioning brain into this malfunctioning territory > > Sure doesn't. I'm mixing up the Kool-Aid right now. Who's with me? > > Wheeeeeee! > Just wait a second while I put on my running suit and brand new Nike's... - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:53:49 -0500 From: "ross taylor" Subject: post-turkey In an attempt to catch up ... Miles on Crum-- >However, his Crum of the 1950s seems *way* more backward and brutal My wife, who grew up mostly in N. Virginia, but whose family are from Shinnston WVa (sorta near Morgantown?) & has spent time there & listened to lots of tales of there, listened to that interview. She thought he sounded narrowly bitter, & felt he would be less interesting than Denise Giardina. who wrote "The Unquiet Earth." It's about mining & union fights & starts in the '30s but comes forward at least to the 60s and is also about living life. At any rate, she recommends Giardina on WVa. - --- Rex's "I got beat up by the Dirt" sounds like a Zappa title -- In my junior high years, just as I was due to get whomped on for my nerdliness, the peace thing saved me temporarily. In 1968, in a small town in the southeast, in eighth grade, to get hit & say "I'm not hitting back, I'm a pacifist" was, briefly, so cool it actually worked. At least on 8th grade small time bullies. As an older teenager w/ long hair in a college town, I got properly beat up (cracked rib) by, well, I would say it was likely they were country people from outside of town. White. In the 80s I got mugged by a couple of black guys, so I'm an equal opportunity victim. - --- Stewart & Stampfel & 100 songs of the 20th Century-- Through the 1930s that looks pretty interesting & maybe even really representative. By the 40s it seems to be getting quirkier, & he should have stopped w/ the rock era. Then he could have done two songs per year for the earlier times. - --- RH & Avalon -- I wonder if Avalon was some turning point for him in trying to adjust to the lush sound of New Romanticism ... trying to adjust to the 80s? I mean he didn't want to be Haircut 100, but he could relate to Roxy? I would like to hear him do "In Every Dream Home a Heartache." - --- Devin & hearing it for the artist -- I've been known to go on about the lyrics myself. I do like JfS for that reason, but I tend to find some good lyrics on all of his albums. I even like the crucifixion joke in "Ultra Unbelievable Love." I don't mind once in a blue moon turning up my guitar so much it annoys the neighbors & I don't mind occasionally going so far out on a limb for an interesting interpretation of a text that it annoys the readers. Sometimes I even contradict myself. I originally liked RH for his psych-60s sound -- so he could just as easily have been the Chesterfield Kings -- but I stayed for the lyrics, the superior guitar playing, & some of the personality that comes through. (First album owned, Element of Light, but got Underwater Moonlight soon after). I luuuv surrealism, but I want it to at least have echoes of meaning, even if I can't nail it down to a single, uncontradicted meaning. Too much pure "exquisite corpse" randomness & I lose at least some interest. Same w/ too much confessionalism. - --- There. Now I need to start on a week of eating *no* meat. Ross Taylor "Tuesday afternoon was never ending" -- Lady Madonna. Were they mocking the Moody Blues? Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:52:13 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: RE: Let's hear it for the artist Back from WV, FOREVER CHANGES LP in hand (wait, that's for Loud-Fans), and here's a quickie topic before I see if there's anything in the house to eat... A Can of Bees B- Underwater Moonlight A+ Invisible Hits B- Black Snake Diamond Role A Groovy Dec[a/o]y B (DECAY = A- but DECOY = C+) I Often Dream of Trains A+ Fegmania! A Element of Light B+ Gotta Let This Hen Out! A Invisible Hitchcock C+ A Globe of Frogs A Queen Elvis B Eye B+ Perspex Island A- Respect B You & Oblivion B+ Moss Elixir B Mossy Liquor B+ Storefront Hitchcock B- Jewels for Sophia B+ A Star for Bram C+ Nextdoorland A- Side Three A- Luxor C ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:10:54 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: let's hear... >James Dignan wrote: >you should listen to some Chris Knox, >> though. > I have one album by Chris Knox and I love it. Blows my mind, dude. he writes as many transgendered songs as Robyn, I'm sure. "The woman inside of me", elements of "Not given lightly", "Rust", and "Open" all come to mind, to start with. Oh, and congratulations! You got everyone talking about Robyn! How did you do that? - --- >"I'm clutching your sleeve" might possibly bring up oedipal issues in his >romantic love, but it's clearly about hanging onto and following another >person... the same person referenced in the next line "you're further >inside me than you'd ever believe". These consecutive lines imply the >same "you" and so it makes no sense to say that his own penis was far >inside himself. well, there are contortionists who... >> Whatever the song is actually about, there seems to be a conscious >> effort to lace it with mastrubatory language (which is hardly unique to >> this track). > >I don't think so. It's just that there are so many thousands of >euphemisms for masturbation, you can hardly speak without letting one fly >(like semen, sure -- see?). agreed (yikes! I'm agreeing with Jeme!). Given the number of potential euphemisms out there - especially when analysingr someone who loves metaphor as much as Robyn - the masturbation argument is a tricky one, especially when there are more obvious interpretations songs could have (Occam's razor etc). or, to put it another way: > I don't see how you could possibly hold this view and still come up > with some of the interpretations you wrote in this post which you've > injected with your own certainty about transgendered references where > they don't exist. (They're all over his work, sure, but you're really > grasping on some of that.) "injected with your own certainty"? Oo-er! - --- meanwhile, on the God front: > When someone says God defies logic, I say "Of course!". But that's not > God's fault, it's a possible failing of logic. > > That said, this imperceptible supernatural world, by its very definition, > can have no perceivable influence on the natural world and, therefore, is > irrelevant to our lives. nicely put. Like two dimensional characters trying to describe a third dimension. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:26:45 -0800 From: "Natalie Jacobs" Subject: No, I don't remember JfS >But what are you listening for in RH? If I'm looking for emotional angst, >then >of course Eye will be my pick, pop fun, maybe Fegmania!, etc. I wasn't >talking >about having education, I was talking about what I look for in RH. I do not >have an acedemic approach to the B-52's, I just enjoy them. Anyways, what >are >your specific complaints about "Jewels"? I'm still confused why you think >it "sucks", not that aesthetic opinions necessarily need to be justified. I said it "blows," not "sucks," there's a difference. :P To be honest, I haven't listened to JfS in so long that I can't name too many specifics, but in general I find it tedious, uninventive, and lacking in the Robyn surrealism/emotional twistedness that I enjoy in his music... the opening of a door into his own private universe. The beauty and depth of Element of Light or IODOT aren't there, nor are the pop pleasures of Fegmania and Globe of Frogs. There's some songs that I like, such as "Mexican God" and a couple of others that I don't remember, but overall it's just boring. Not as boring as Luxor, though. FYI, my first Robyn album was Queen Elvis, and I loved it in high school because it was so surreal and weird, with the jangliness of Peter Buck's contribution being an added pleasure. It's not my favorite anymore - I prefer Element of Light and IODOT as noted above - but it still has a special place in my furry little heart. This whole lyrical analysis thread is reminding me of the people with too much time on their hands on Chalkhills (the XTC list), who would write entire essays about songs, claiming them to be far more deep and complex than they actually were. "Dear Madame Barnum," apparently a straightforward song about a guy being two-timed by his girlfriend, is actually a political allegory about Thatcher! Who knew? Mountains out of molehills, n. _________________________________________________________________ Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some good bets! http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:33:52 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: JfS My seventh Neil Young album was Time Fades Away. Thanks, Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:35:20 GMT From: Jim Davies Subject: (she cut me down to size... academia blues) Excellent stuff. This kind of nonsense makes me nostalgic for a time when everything I read was well-intended but ultimately useless. Which, for me, was the essence of the 1980s. I read an interview with Peter Perrett in which he explained that he had spent that entire decade taking heroin and living in an attic. He said: "people tell me that if you *had* to miss a decade, that was probably the one to miss". Tongue in cheek, of course, but nevertheless admirably chipper for the NME. And "Woke Up Sticky", a more recent contribution, is a brilliant song. And so too are all of the songs on Fegmania, the first Robyn album I bought. Actually, I bought four albums at once after hearing "Listening to the Higsons" on Radio One, back in 1985. It was, I remember thinking, *exactly* what I had been waiting for. So I bought IODOT, Fegmania, Gotta Let This Hen Out, and Invisible Hits. In Music Market on Queen Street. There used to be three Music Markets in Oxford. Now there are none. I remember that there was a whole wall of that store taken up with copies of "What does anything mean, basically?". A gloriously under-rated album. Which I have just played four times, back to back, while driving around England and Wales in the dark and the rain. And that was the store from whence I ordered "Competition", by the Rabbi Joseph Gordon, but that never made it to Oxford. So there I was, hearing the echo of Bam Caruso, out of my mind on Cope and mead, thrilling at the Dentists, just waiting for someone like Robyn. I would give an A for just about everything, pausing only on Groovy Decay (mis-vibed) and Luxor (too personal, I think). I was going to stand appalled at that last post. The one with the hilariously revealing misinterpretation of Dark Princess. Yet I couldn't shake the feeling that the post might have been a clever parody, or a cruel hoax at Jeme's expense. Either way, it *is* good to see ungradeable, postmodernist nonsense being submitted again. Great stuff. Must try harder. Jim x ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:56:12 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: By the way (TV content...) ... was it just me or was the "cliffhanger" on last night's Alias one of the lamest cliffhangers of all time? I can't even spoil it, unless the fact that there's nothing to spoil counts as a spoiler. Anyhow... - -Rex "it's not dark yet" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:08:12 -0800 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: RE: No, I don't remember JfS > This whole lyrical analysis thread is reminding me of the people with too > much time on their hands on Chalkhills (the XTC list), who would write > entire essays about songs, claiming them to be far more deep and complex > than they actually were. "Dear Madame Barnum," apparently a > straightforward song about a guy being two-timed by his girlfriend, is > actually a political allegory about Thatcher! Who knew? I had a theory for a while that eventually the cranks on chalkhills would eventually show that every song XTC ever recorded was about Margaret Thatcher. I used dissect lyrics all the time when I was in high school. I thought I was so witty and clever, but alas I was just a pretentious nerd. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:00:52 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: A Can Of Bees I have yet to get around to my rating of Robyn related albums. I have noticed people seem to look down on A Can Of Bees compared to other Robyn material, am I the only one who rates this as their favorite disc or just higher than UM? Max ps Since when does a grading scale have an E? Also, the new hotmail sucks. _________________________________________________________________ From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, youll find a range of helpful holiday info here. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:25:12 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: A Can Of Bees Maximilian Lang wrote: > > ps Since when does a grading scale have an E? we had A-F at school. I think E might've been a passing grade, too. But this was a school 116 years older than the USA, so they hadn't really got time to get into the system. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:29:42 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Swedene Subject: Re: off topic: i pod - --- Mike Hooker wrote: > hi, > i think there are some on the list with an ipod. > my daughter wants one > for christmas and i have a few questions. does it > pay to get the 20 gig or > bigger? seems to me 10 gig of mp3's ought to hold > anybody. 10 gb is fine, if you wanted one yourself I would recommend the 20gb. I have a 10GB and it is great. You can go to the Apple site (www.apple.com) and you *should* be able to get one at a reduced cost under the education tab, since it is for your daughter, one can only assume that she is a student (of life at the least). Also check out www.pricegrabber.com. As Tom has mentioned Apple doesn't give *that* much leeway on pricing, but there are a few who dare to brave the rath of Steve. I think there is 13 points total between cost and retail. > should i purchase the > USB cable or blow that money on a firewire card? > lastly, whats a good place, > good price to buy one? > Firewire is THE way to go. Highly recomend that, u can pick one up pretty inexpensively and they now have newer cards out that have both firewire as well as USB 2.0 on the same card. have fun! Mike ===== - --------------------------------------------- Rebuilding my websight: http://www34.brinkster.com/bflomidy/ _____________________________________________ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:40:16 -0500 From: fingerpuppets Subject: cones! http://animation.filmtv.ucla.edu/students/awinfrey/coneindex.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:50:45 -0500 From: fingerpuppets Subject: Robyn 10-31-03early bit torrent - ----- Forwarded message from Christopher Carville ----- From: "Christopher Carville" To: Subject: Robyn 10-31-03early bit torrent Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:42:11 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Hi - Here is the early show. THe late show will be posted after this is fully seeded. C http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24401 - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:46:31 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: A Can Of Bees On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > we had A-F at school. I think E might've been a passing grade, too. But > this was a school 116 years older than the USA, so they hadn't really > got time to get into the system. I once came across an A-H scale. F was fail, G was bad fail, and H was "Don't even think about resitting this topic". - - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:49:06 -0600 From: Devin Lee Ens Subject: Re: let's hear... Capuchin wrote: > > "I'm clutching your sleeve" might possibly bring up oedipal issues in his > romantic love, but it's clearly about hanging onto and following another > person... the same person referenced in the next line "you're further > inside me than you'd ever believe". These consecutive lines imply the > same "you" and so it makes no sense to say that his own penis was far > inside himself. > Yes, but what makes it a metaphysical conceit is that there are two or three stories going on at once. As I've pointed out before, the combination of autoeroticism and a transgendered fantasy (which RH mentioned at the show I saw he likes to live out in songs so he doesn't have to do anything drastic in life- - -this was right after Queen Elvis), has been a recurring theme at least since "Sometimes I Wish I Was A Pretty Girl". A line I didn't mention before which I find interesting in Princess is "I looked for her, but she found me." Sure, could be a reference to the specifics of the scenario that inspired this, but how many coincidental lines do we want to allow here? Maybe Luxor is full of lines that are just personal details, but Jewels seems pretty consistently to be dealing with themes above autobiography. If the Dark Princess is the feminine ideal, then the final line may well mean that the narrator (who may be RH or may be a persona) has found the feminine in hirself. Now here's the persona I get a feel for behind the lyrics, especially of the last few albums: A man who hates having to live up to the expectations of being a man. Who finds manhood cold, harsh, and would feel more alive as a woman, "I'll have your babies if you have my cold." The desire for womanhood seems also to be motivated by loneliness, a longing for woman, even in an autoerotic form, "Sometimes I wish I was a pretty girl, so I could #@&%! myself in the shower... been on my own so long, I can't tell right from wrong." This loneliness may be due to the fact that his feminine manners ("special ways") cost him in relationships (since he doesn't fulfil his gender expectations), "He never gets the girl he wants, because the girl inside him haunts the living room and the dressing room" ,"She's got a thing about yams, I am not a yam." The feeling of being misgendered itself causes a sense of alienation, "Something in you that just isn't in anyone else...woman in you." When a woman actually accepts him as he is, he is gratuitously grateful, "I feel beautiful because you love me." His love language is generally submissive and the woman he seeks will be a top, "I know my type and she's out there... I dream of Antwoman" (something I just realised about this song: "Being just contaminates the void"-- in "Being and Nothingness", Sartre goes on at one point about how masochism is an attempt to escape facticity... hmm...). Now that's the voice of a significant strain of Hitchcock's songs as I hear it. Whether or not it's the voice of RH, I won't venture to guess here, and I really have no idea if "Dark Princess" fits into this series. It speaks of things being hidden inside, two transvestite songs use "Queen" in the title. Who knows, maybe it's all just coincidence. > > It's just that there are so many thousands of > euphemisms for masturbation, you can hardly speak without letting one fly > (like semen, sure -- see?). Which is why they're favourites of RH and so many other lyricists. If I've got five words I could pick from and one gives the line extra meaning, I'll take it. The extra meaning is nine out of ten times sexual because that's just the easiest thing to insinuate. clean devo p.s. capuchin wrote: > I don't know what abuse you're referencing, but I can certainly understand > someone being offended by your condescending remarks about us not being > "academic" enough for you or that there's something about being Canadian > that puts you closer to Robyn than you could feel to any American. I think tone is one communicative tool that gets lost online. I said or meant I didn't know if many people would get into an academic study of some lyrics, and in fact some people have complained that I'm being what amounts to "too academic" on the topic. Was I wrong to be concerned? Regarding my discovery that a Canadian (or this Canadian) is more like an Englishman than like an American, WHY ON EARTH WOULD THIS OFFEND ANYBODY? unless they are really looking for things to harp on? Would it ruffle any feathers if I said my favourite lit is Irish? Jeez. p.p.s. If anyone could tell me what the heck "I Don't Remember Guilford" is about, or throw out a clue, I'd be grateful. I'm lost on that one. Lovely recording, tho. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 07:55:27 -0800 From: "Brian" Subject: RE: Let's hear it for the artist This was fun!: Raw Cuts A+ Live/Portland Arms A A Can of Bees A- Underwater Moonlight A+ Invisible Hits B+ Two Halves/Price of One B+ Black Snake Diamond Role A+ Groovy Dec[a/o]y B+ (Cool Songs!) I Often Dream of Trains A Fegmania! A- Element of Light A- Gotta Let This Hen Out! B Invisible Hitchcock C+ A Globe of Frogs B+ Queen Elvis B Eye B+ Perspex Island B (Great songs, poor production) Respect B+ (Used to be an A for me, Hmm?) You & Oblivion C- Moss Elixir A+ Mossy Liquor A Storefront Hitchcock B- Jewels for Sophia B+ A Star for Bram B+ Robyn Sings C Nextdoorland A Side Three A+ Luxor B- (still deciding) - -Nuppy - -- Brian nightshadecat@mailbolt.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:40:04 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Let's hear it for irony Y'know, Eb took a lot of flack here a few years ago for saying that Robyn was a "B" or B+" artist. Well, guess what a lot of these lists of letter grades average out to? later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:46:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Let's hear it for irony Miles Goosens wrote: > Y'know, Eb took a lot of flack here a few years ago > for saying that Robyn was a "B" or B+" artist. > Well, guess what a lot of these lists of letter > grades average out to? Yeah, but that's the albums vs. each other. Someone whose album work averages out to B or B+ is probably an A artist because, erm, uh, ya see when you put his average for albums against most other artists, it will, um, er, ah, the curve you see, it's all in the curve. That's it!!! Totally!! I, like, mean it. Or something. On a completely unrelated note, anyone have an opinion on the new Twilight Singers thang? ===== "Senator John McCain recently compared the situation in Iraq to the Vietnam era -- to which President Bush replied, 'What does Iraq have in common with drinking beer in Texas?'" -- Craig Kilborn "I don't think the Bush administration lied to us about Iraq. I think it's worse than that. I think they fooled themselves. I think they were conned by Ahmad Chalabi. I think they indulged in wishful thinking to a point of near criminality. I think they decided anyone who didn't agree with them was an enemy, anti-American, disloyal. In other words, I think they're criminally stupid." -- Molly Ivins __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:59:53 -0600 (CST) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: let's hear... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Devin Lee Ens wrote: > Yes, but what makes it a metaphysical conceit is that there are two or three > stories going on at once. As I've pointed out before, the combination of > autoeroticism and a transgendered fantasy (which RH mentioned at the show I saw > he likes to live out in songs so he doesn't have to do anything drastic in life- > -this was right after Queen Elvis), has been a recurring theme at least > since "Sometimes I Wish I Was A Pretty Girl". This last is true...but I think one thing that trips you up, and perhaps something that bugs those who are bugged by your interpretations, is that you often proceed as if you're an archaeologist carefully brushing away the dust of received interpretations to reveal what's actually there, where it was placed, and when. In other words, you write as if you're revealing what Hitchcock *thought* when he wrote, what he intended when he wrote - and that seems presumptuous to many, I think. For me, pop songs - even by as thoughtful an artist as Robyn - are unlikely to be capable of bearing such interpretive weight. I don't think many pop writers sit down intending to layer multiple narratives, etc., into a three-minute song. For me, a more fruitful approach is to begin with what seems like the emotional thrust of the song and *then* look at the lyrics and music and see in what ways they work with that feeling. This usually means I'm really interpreting *my* reactions to the songs, with no attempt to presume that Robyn *meant* the song that way - only that I hear it that way. So all that stuff might be in the songs...but primarily as an interface between what appear to be recurring ideas that Hitchcock works with and whichever of those ideas resonate with you as listener/interpreter. I think if your analyses were presnted that way, people would be more receptive to them. (The other likely source of annoyance might be characterized in the approach being derided in the following Dylan lines...which, of course, Robyn would be intimately familiar with: "At dawn my lover comes to me and tells me of her dreams / With no attempt to shovel the glimpse into the ditch of what each one means") Re "Guildford": no specifics, because the song's not in front of me...but to me it's an incredibly sad song. Robyn often uses place names as place setters for people and/or emotions...start from there. Now, who was it here claimed that They Might Be Giants were primarily about existential angst or something...? - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Some see things as they are, and say "Why?" ::Some see things as they could be, and say "Why not?" ::Some see things that aren't there, and say "Huh?" np: Another Side of Bob Dylan ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #443 ********************************