From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #441 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, December 1 2003 Volume 12 : Number 441 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Master And Commander (50% RH) ["Charlotte Tupman" ] mike mills [mike hooker ] Re: let's hear... [Devin Lee Ens ] Re: let's hear... [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: feh [Tom Clark ] Re: let's hear... [Eb ] Re: Master And Commander (50% RH) [Capuchin ] Re: let's hear... [Capuchin ] Re: let's hear... [Capuchin ] Re: let's hear... [Eb ] REAP ["Maximilian Lang" ] Re: let's hear... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: let's hear... ["Brian" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:11:18 +0000 From: "Charlotte Tupman" Subject: Master And Commander (50% RH) Went to see the film 'Master And Commander' last night, and at one point the sailors were singing something that sounded very much like the song that 'Polly On The Shore' is based upon... can anyone confirm this? Charlotte _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 11:45:23 -0800 From: "Natalie Jacobs" Subject: feh >Having an "academic" perspective necessitates adoring Jewels for Sophia? I have an "academic" perspective (BA with High Honors in English from the University of Michigan, thankyouverymuch) and I think Jewels for Sophia blows. n. _________________________________________________________________ Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some good bets! http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:06:17 -0500 From: mike hooker Subject: mike mills hi, at the tell us the truth tour stop in wash dc, mike mills played i want to destroy you. acoustic guitar, with jill sobule singing back up. its available on bit torrent . http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23934 have fun, Mike Hooker please see my music trading list at: http://hometown.aol.com/mhooker216/myhomepage/index.html being AOL, its doesnt always work. try later, or ask for a list ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:50:52 -0600 From: Devin Lee Ens Subject: Re: let's hear... Eb wrote: > Having an "academic" perspective necessitates adoring Jewels for Sophia? I don't find this level of lyrical sophistication on any other of his albums. Usually he's got this fun mix of metaphor and silliness, but the songs that I've figured out on Jewels show a lot more care and intelligence put into the choice of words. Take the Cheese Alarm for example: the political message, "The luxury and wealth of the West (one manifestation of which is being able to choose from a hundred varieties of cheese) comes with a cost," is expressed, "You can't build a palace without any drains," which works on yet another level as a constipation reference (the result of too much cheese). One metaphor standing for two ideas, one humorous, one very serious, is exactly the sort of 'metaphysical conceit' John Donne is famous for. Another example of brilliance would be in "NASA Clapping", "The universe is made of bees, and they're all buzzing around your chart. If you would study the bees you have to number them politely" to express the dangers of tinkering with nature. OR the declaration that, although his stuff sounds silly, he always means something by what he says, "This may sound like a fax, but in the hand I never relax," This is both the hand that holds the pen, and (maybe) the hand that holds the pick. If I'm right about that second part, this is another metaphysical conceit, with Robyn referring both to his coded writing style and his steady strumming. THEN there's "Dark Princess" which seems like a (relatively) straight-forward song about mastrubation, until the last line when he says "You're farther inside me than you'd ever believe" making you wonder whether he's taking about someone else's penis, or the woman inside that haunts "You Remind Me of You", "Man With A Woman's Shadow", "This Is How It Feels", etc. Why I would tend toward the interpretation that this is another transgendered song is because most of his transgendered or transvestite tunes have an autoerotic element to them: "Sometimes I Wish I Was A Pretty Girl", "Uncorrected Personality Traits" ("attempts to be your own love object"), "Queen Elvis" ("In the mirror you & me find out just what love can be"), "You Remind Me of You" ("...when I reach for myself")... What was my point?... Oh yes, simply that I find Jewels For Sophia, which may or may not contain RH's best lyrics, contains his most Rewarding lyrics, that is to say, picked apart, they say a lot more than most of his stuff, and make for really swell essays. The album which made RH my favourite songwriter is Eye. Before that I thought, "This guy's cool, but I still prefer Barret, Dylan, and Lennon." I had heard most of his stuff by the time I got this, except IODOT and the Warner records. I was as much blown away by how much he accomplished with just guitar and piano as with the songs themselves (Jewels on the other hand, is probably the first album he's done where each track is produced to the hilt in a unique manner, rather than being recorded to suit the sound of the whole, the limitations of the Egyptians, or to fit some sort of constraints he's set--nod to RH critic Palle Hoffstein for this observation), but the line that really grabbed me was in Flesh Cartoons. I was in my second year of a Philosophy degree, and getting very frustrated with skeptics who are prepared to deny the existence of the self-evident world, and theists who are prepared to assert the truth of the silliest proposition ever put forward, the God hypothesis (Santa Claus crossed with Superman and multiplied to infinity is supposed to be MORE BELIEVABLE than the existence of Santa Claus or Superman?! Give me a break!). Then I heard Robyn sing so poignantly, "I got no feelings, I got no friends, I got insurance, and I despise those who pretend life's a movie, life's a dream-- I love you baby, things are always what they seem." For four years, "Things are always what they seem," has been the cornerstone of my metaphysical perspective. But I do go on... I have breakfast to make. devo volubis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:16:38 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: let's hear... >>Something about the glorious phonetics of this new subscriber >> name > >Actually, I've been on the list for about 5 years, but I've never really had >time to participate in the discussions. Especially since I do tend to go on. I >am still planning to write an essay on the Robyn's transgendered songs, just >because I think he's the only artist I've heard who has written so many songs >about being a woman trapped in a man's body. I have to admit that one reason I >haven't participated very much, is that I don't get the impression many other >fans on the list are quite as academic in their study of RH as I am. Which >explains why no one's raving about Jewels For Sophia like I am. Interesting. There are quite a lot... you should listen to some Chris Knox, though. oh, and: A Can of Bees C+ Underwater Moonlight A+ Invisible Hits C- Black Snake Diamond Role B- Groovy Decry C- I Often Dream of Trains A+ Fegmania! B+ Element of Light A Gotta Let This Hen Out! C- Invisible Hitchcock D+ A Globe of Frogs B- Queen Elvis A- Eye A Perspex Island C Respect B You & Oblivion A- Moss Elixir B+ Mossy Liquor B- Storefront Hitchcock C Jewels for Sophia B A Star for Bram never heard Nextdoorland B Side Three never heard Luxor never heard James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:33:09 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: feh on 11/30/03 11:45 AM, Natalie Jacobs at emma_blowgun@hotmail.com wrote: >> Having an "academic" perspective necessitates adoring Jewels for Sophia? > > I have an "academic" perspective (BA with High Honors in English from the > University of Michigan, thankyouverymuch) and I think Jewels for Sophia > blows. > See if your High Honors can wrap its head around this: Fuck You Natalie Jane, "Jewels for Sophia" rocks! - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:21:02 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: let's hear... >"You can't build a palace without any drains," which works on yet >another level as a constipation reference (the result of too much cheese). > >OR the declaration that, although his stuff sounds silly, he always means >something by what he says, "This may sound like a fax, but in the hand I never >relax," This is both the hand that holds the pen, and (maybe) the hand that >holds the pick. If I'm right about that second part, this is another >metaphysical conceit, with Robyn referring both to his coded writing style and >his steady strumming. > >Why I would >tend toward the interpretation that this is another transgendered song is >because most of his transgendered or transvestite tunes have an autoerotic >element to them You're working way too hard at it, dude. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:49:11 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Master And Commander (50% RH) On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Charlotte Tupman wrote: > Went to see the film 'Master And Commander' last night, and at one point > the sailors were singing something that sounded very much like the song > that 'Polly On The Shore' is based upon... can anyone confirm this? I thought the same thing the first time through the film, but second-viewing made it a bit more clear. There's just a song with a first line that goes "...and a warnin' ye take by me". The melody's almost completely different and the lyrics differ in every way but that one. But I sure did think that one of the able seamen who solemnly salutes when that fellow is passing through the crowded deck nervously (won't write more for sake of spoilers) sure did look like Robyn fifteen years ago. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:55:15 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: let's hear... On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Eb wrote: > >"You can't build a palace without any drains," which works on yet > >another level as a constipation reference (the result of too much cheese). > > > >OR the declaration that, although his stuff sounds silly, he always means > >something by what he says, "This may sound like a fax, but in the hand I never > >relax," This is both the hand that holds the pen, and (maybe) the hand that > >holds the pick. If I'm right about that second part, this is another > >metaphysical conceit, with Robyn referring both to his coded writing style and > >his steady strumming. > > > >Why I would > >tend toward the interpretation that this is another transgendered song is > >because most of his transgendered or transvestite tunes have an autoerotic > >element to them > > You're working way too hard at it, dude. No shit. Speaking of masturbation, get another hobby. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:07:05 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: let's hear... On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Devin Lee Ens wrote: > Eb wrote: > > Having an "academic" perspective necessitates adoring Jewels for Sophia? > > I don't find this level of lyrical sophistication on any other of his > albums. The examples you listed are simplistic and dead obvious. There's nothing coded or even vaguely interesting about those metaphors. They're straight-forward and lack subtlety. Give me "On the black felini sails, tattered rags that hangs on nails" or "you the mistress of your chair, I the seargant of your hair" anytime. > THEN there's "Dark Princess" which seems like a (relatively) > straight-forward song about mastrubation, Um, would this view of yours change at all if you knew he refered to a particular human being as "The Dark Princess" regularly in speech? > What was my point?... Oh yes, simply that I find Jewels For Sophia, > which may or may not contain RH's best lyrics, contains his most > Rewarding lyrics, that is to say, picked apart, they say a lot more than > most of his stuff, and make for really swell essays. I think that ANY Robyn album can be picked apart to that degree, especially with the simplistic, pop-psych, pseudo-freudian bullshit that you appear to use here. > (Jewels on the other hand, is probably the first album he's done where > each track is produced to the hilt in a unique manner, rather than being > recorded to suit the sound of the whole, the limitations of the > Egyptians, or to fit some sort of constraints he's set--nod to RH critic > Palle Hoffstein for this observation) Huh?!? I disagree totally here. Groovy Decoy, Respect, and Queen Elvis all have this trait. > I was in my second year of a Philosophy degree, and getting very > frustrated with skeptics who are prepared to deny the existence of the > self-evident world, and theists who are prepared to assert the truth of > the silliest proposition ever put forward, the God hypothesis [snip]. > Then I heard Robyn sing so poignantly, "I got no feelings, I got no > friends, I got insurance, and I despise those who pretend life's a > movie, life's a dream-- I love you baby, things are always what they > seem." For four years, "Things are always what they seem," has been the > cornerstone of my metaphysical perspective. I don't see how you could possibly hold this view and still come up with some of the interpretations you wrote in this post which you've injected with your own certainty about transgendered references where they don't exist. (They're all over his work, sure, but you're really grasping on some of that.) > (Santa Claus crossed with Superman and multiplied to infinity is > supposed to be MORE BELIEVABLE than the existence of Santa Claus or > Superman?! Give me a break!) If that's how sum up the God hypothesis, you really do lack subtlety or flexibility of thought. I'm no theist, but I understand that theory in a way that does not conflict with my sense of reality. You could, too, if you weren't so closed-minded against the notion. > But I do go on... You sure do. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:17:40 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: let's hear... > > But I do go on... > >You sure do. Well, it's probably safe to assume that Jeme has browbeaten yet another subscriber into prolonged lurkdom. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:01:46 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: REAP Gertrude Ederle. Max _________________________________________________________________ Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free parking. http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:58:27 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: let's hear... > A Can of Bees B+ > Underwater Moonlight A > Invisible Hits B > Black Snake Diamond Role C+ > Groovy Decry D > I Often Dream of Trains A+ > Fegmania! B+ > Element of Light A > Gotta Let This Hen Out! C > Invisible Hitchcock C > A Globe of Frogs B > Queen Elvis B- > Eye B > Perspex Island C > Respect B+ > You & Oblivion C- > Moss Elixir B+ > Mossy Liquor not sure > Storefront Hitchcock C+ ("Guildford" and "1974" are fine, though) > Jewels for Sophia B > A Star for Bram not listened to enough to rank > Nextdoorland B > Side Three B+ > Luxor B-, although still new enough to me not to be sure F (doesn't exist) means "I'd sell it back." D means mostly a mess but salvageable because a couple of good songs are on it. C means pretty mediocre, might be a few good songs, but at least it doesn't stink terribly. B is pretty damned fine; A is top-rank for damned near anybody. That is, IODOT, Element, and UM are the best RH has done as solo, Egyptian, and Soft Boy, and are pretty damned classic in my book. (The version of IODOT I mean is the original one - the other CD tracks don't really belong, and they sure as hell don't belong in the middle, where my edition puts them. Actually, I generally ignore bonus tracks, simply because in almost every case I had the recording before those tracks were there. Oh - and first RH album? Fegmania!) The lower the grade, btw, the less certain I am of it - because it means I've listened to the record less (except for GD, which is almost completely ruined by unsympathetic arranging & production, even though a handful of the songs are quite fine). ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb :: --Batman lp: The Fall _Are You Are Missing Winner?_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 06:14:43 -0800 From: "Brian" Subject: Re: let's hear... "Eb" said: > > > But I do go on... > > > >You sure do. > > Well, it's probably safe to assume that Jeme has browbeaten yet > another subscriber into prolonged lurkdom. > > Eb ???? Dude, you just told denis he was working way too hard at it. -Come on man! Come on fegs! whether I agree with Devo or not -Being on a Robyn Hitchcock list- I'd far rather read his interpretations of RH songs than read about most* of the non RH discussions that go on here. - -Nuppy *having said that, I still do enjoy most of the wealth of info that comes through this list. I'd just rather there be more RH talk. - -- Brian nightshadecat@mailbolt.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #441 ********************************