From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #405 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, October 30 2003 Volume 12 : Number 405 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Solar Flares to hit the EARTH! [Capuchin ] Re: Solar Flares to hit the EARTH!/reap [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dig] Re: Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: kicking your shins [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] all "24" spoilers, all the time! [Jeffrey Norman ] Re: all "24" spoilers, all the time! [Eb ] Who's Tom Clark? [Tom Clark ] Re: Who's Tom Clark? ["Maximilian Lang" ] Subgenres not mentioned herein: Grebo, Foxcore, C-86, Nudecore ["Rex.Broo] Re: Subgenres not mentioned herein: Grebo, Foxcore, C-86, Nudecore [Capuc] The exquisite Moz and Portland [Jill Brand ] Re: The exquisite Moz and Portland [Capuchin ] Re: Who's Tom Clark? [Tom Clark ] Re: Emo [Johnathan Vail ] Re: Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! [steve ] Boston (Somerville) on the 30th? [Johnathan Vail ] Waiting for Emo [was re: Emo] [Miles Goosens ] Re: "emo" explained, maybe [Aaron Mandel ] Re: "emo" explained, maybe [Capuchin ] Re: Guilty "Displeasures" / Conspicuous Gaps ["Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: Solar Flares to hit the EARTH! On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Eb wrote: > Only us softheaded, tractable sheep in the media-brainwashed mainstream. > The brilliant cynics of the radical intelligentsia are far too clever to > fall for any such strategies. Though I suspect you knew this, already. Actually, Mr. Snooty-pants, I don't think ANYBODY is stupid enough to buy that, but I do have to wonder what the cumulative effect of that crap is on a person after being bombarded with it day in and day out. I am wondering if y'all are as annoyed by it daily as I was on that one occassion. So keep your hateful suppositions to yourself, if you possibly can. We're trying to be civil here. Thanks heaps. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:35:05 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Solar Flares to hit the EARTH!/reap >Subject: Solar Flares to hit the EARTH! > >Repent now! > >We're all doomed. > >Eb and Cap hold hands and make up, it may be your last chance! > > > >I hope we get some luminous lights and all are safe. the clouds cleared just long enough for some beautiful green glowwing curtains to appear over the sky. I tried taking some photos, but I've only ever been successful at photographic aurorae once before, so I'm not holding my breath. The weather is wet. Very wet. I wish I could send some of this wet over to CA. Oh, and science fiction fans on the list: Reap - Hal Clement. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:09:22 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! Quoting Steve Talkowski : > On Oct 29, 2003, at 3:37 PM, Eb wrote: > > > PS "24" rocked. :) > > I watched my first episode to see what all the fuss is about. > > It was "ok". Some spoilers, for those of you who didn't watch it in real time... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:26:46 -0600 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: kicking your shins Quoting Natalie Jacobs : > >That's the interesting bit, really. You are far more forgiving of that > >whole E6 thing that I am. E6 was really the defining factor of my > >fogeyhood. I just didn't see what was so great about a bunch of > >mostly-okay-but-not-earthshattering power pop bands > > I think we're once again in alternate universes, as I have no idea how > Neutral Milk Hotel, Of Montreal, the Music Tapes, Elf Power, Beulah, the > Essex Green, and the Olivia Tremor Control fit that description. (The Music > Tapes are "power pop"?? Have you ever had the misfortune to actually hear > them?) The Apples in Stereo and the Minders veer in that direction, but the > self-conscious "retro" slant might disqualify them. Maybe I'm > misunderstanding the term "power pop," I dunno... I think E6 was a victim of critical overkill, as well as a too-much-at-once syndrome. I think the main E6 bands (you name all of them above - not sure Essex Green belongs there, though) are all quite distinctive and different from one another. I suppose someone might confuse a few moments of Elf Power with a few moments of the Minders, say - but no one on earth could possibly confuse the Music Tapes with Beulah, or Neutral Milk Hotel with Olivia Tremor Control. But critics wrote about the acts as if they shared something in common musically - - when really, it was more a network of friends all working in their own DIY ways (with a lot of guest appearances, to be sure) than a unified "scene" musically. The second-tier E6 acts, though, did start blending together and being sort of indistinct retro-pop - and because of long silences on the part of two of the main E6 acts (NMH and OTC), those second-tier group filled the gap. And since of the main groups they were closest to the Apples, the most conventionally pop of the main E6 acts, "E6" became shorthand for this sort of bright-eyed retro pop thing. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: it's not your meat :: :: --Mr. Toad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:33:51 -0600 From: Jeffrey Norman Subject: all "24" spoilers, all the time! My mailer doesn't like spoiler space, it seems, so... I dunno...I wished they'd given me a few episodes' getting into the plot before they asked me to suspend my disbelief from a wee twig hanging off a sixty-foot cliff. The world just seemed a little too tight: I mean, given all the problems CTU's had with interoffice romance, setting up yet another one seems a bit much. Oh - and Kim as someone intelligent enough to do high-level computer intelligence work? Gimme a break: plus, it's been only three years - did she take the special Agents 'R' Us course at the community college? Or did she go visit that black panther that Gunn visited in Angel? (Ooops - wrong network) Kiefer Sutherland can do lots of things: screaming convincingly isn't one of them. Oh - and having the disease's progress conveniently take twenty-four hours...couldn't they have saved that for a couple episodes later and backdate it? Just a little too obvious, in terms of a main plot engine. About that chronology: correct me if I'm wrong, but the first season would have been immediately prior to the presidential election, right - so mid-2000? Season Two, if I remember, took place six months later, after Palmer was elected...so early or middle 2001? If it's "three years later" now, that puts it more or less in the present moment, or the near future (after the next presidential election has heated up some). I was confused for a moment there...I suppose they needed to do that in order to have an election for plot purposes. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://spanghew.blogspot.com/ :: When the only tool you have is an interociter, :: you tend to treat everything as if it were :: a fourth-order nanodimensional sub-quantum :: temporo-spatial anomaly. :: --Crow T. Maslow - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:44:30 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: all "24" spoilers, all the time! >The world just seemed a little too tight: I mean, given all the problems >CTU's had with interoffice romance, setting up yet another one seems a bit >much. I've read idle guesses that Kim's new Brian Austin Greeny lover will be martyred within a few episodes. This wouldn't surprise me a bit. I didn't even know this character would be added -- seems like he was left out of the pre-season publicity, which doesn't bode well for his significance. >Oh - and Kim as someone intelligent enough to do high-level computer >intelligence work? Gimme a break: plus, it's been only three years - did she >take the special Agents 'R' Us course at the community college? An obvious objection...ehh, I can let this pass. And it's so preferable to her exasperating scenarios of the last two seasons.... >Oh - and having the disease's progress conveniently take twenty-four >hours...couldn't they have saved that for a couple episodes later and backdate >it? Just a little too obvious, in terms of a main plot engine. I had the same thought. >About that chronology: correct me if I'm wrong, but the first season >would have >been immediately prior to the presidential election, right - so mid-2000? >Season >Two, if I remember, took place six months later, after Palmer was elected...so >early or middle 2001? If it's "three years later" now, that puts it more or >less >in the present moment, or the near future (after the next >presidential election >has heated up some). I was confused for a moment there...I suppose they needed >to do that in order to have an election for plot purposes. Something else which I'm not going to worry too much about. ;) So, will "Kate" continue to appear? I thought that "Hey, you left your jacket over here" phone-call scene was incredibly tired and cliched, compared with the show's usual writing level. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:09:31 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Who's Tom Clark? By popular request, now you and your friends and family members can ask this days old question whenever they want! Just in time for the holidaze!! http://www.cafeshops.com/whostomclark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:30:45 -0500 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: Who's Tom Clark? >From: Tom Clark >To: The Myriad Ones >Subject: Who's Tom Clark? >Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:09:31 -0800 >By popular request, now you and your friends and family members can ask >this >days old question whenever they want! Just in time for the holidaze!! >http://www.cafeshops.com/whostomclark What, no 'FUCK YOU TOM CLARK' thongs? Max _________________________________________________________________ Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:05:40 -0800 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Subgenres not mentioned herein: Grebo, Foxcore, C-86, Nudecore Nat: >>I think we're once again in alternate universes, as I have no idea how >>Neutral Milk Hotel, Of Montreal, the Music Tapes, Elf Power, Beulah, >>the Essex Green, and the Olivia Tremor Control fit that description. >>The Apples in Stereo and the Minders veer in that direction >>Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term "power pop," I dunno... Or more likely I'm misusing it! Well, I saw part of an Apples live show, heard the Minders because I worked with their singer (frequent phone contact, though I never met her in person), and I have (and like) the next-to-last Beulah record, and that's really all the E6 I ever paid much attention to, so that's where I got that impression. You don't have Beulah grouped as power-pop, but I do-- it's melodic guitar rock with some bells and whistles, which fits the bill IMHO, but admittedly "power pop" is one of yer more tricky-to-pin-down terms. But part of what I was saying re: E6 (and my reaction to it) was that I didn't give the bands themselves a fair listen because it sounded like too much work, and that that was a sign of my incipient fogeyism. So I actually don't really know what most of them sound like other than what I've read. See, I was really talking about myself... am I being "emo"? (smiley emoticon etc.) Never heard the Music Tapes... if they found a way to make you hate them and still be an E6 band, I think I'll... give 'em a miss. _____ Jeme: >>Much of what has been called shoegazer or twee is probably emo. >>It's about self-obsession, mostly. I just recently even found out that the AMG has a "music map" for something called "Twee Pop"... I thought it was just a derogatory term critics used. That there is a mighty emasculating genre name. >>And yeah, you know it when you hear it. But but but... if you know it when you hear it, then how come much of what has been called shoegazer or twee is only *probably* emo? _______ Eb: >>I've wondered in the past why "When I Was Young" isn't on the above >>album. Seems like a glaring oversight, because it certainly gets more >>airplay than at least half those songs. I don't recall the >>chronology...maybe it came out after this compilation was released? Oh, hey, I spaced on this... that's a different comp than mine. Here, you want this one, it's way better: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=CASS80308142014&sql=A1usyxdsbjo ls Slightly less guilt-inducing? 24 was pretty good. I'm optimistic, anyway... Speaking of things animated for unclear reasons, Kid Notorious is actualluy okay funny... but I'm just kind of glad that it's being advertised because that helps remind me that there are actually new South Parks on as well. ______ Jason "He Lives!" Thornton: >>And yes Marc, I'm still planning on going to Largo. :) See you guys there... anyone else? Eb? Catherine? Uncle Nick wants fegfotos... - -Rex PS is this Narduar guy, like, a puppet? I keep picturing noted hip-hop artist Triumph when I read those interviews... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:25:19 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Subgenres not mentioned herein: Grebo, Foxcore, C-86, Nudecore On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Rex.Broome wrote: > Or more likely I'm misusing it! Well, I saw part of an Apples live show, That's pretty power-pop, I'd say... > heard the Minders because I worked with their singer (frequent phone > contact, though I never met her in person), That's super weird because nearly all the singing in The Minders is done by a fellow named Martin. And mostly he works food service. > and I have (and like) the next-to-last Beulah record, and that's really > all the E6 I ever paid much attention to, so that's where I got that > impression. Well, as the hip kids from a few years ago would say if they talked like truckers, "If you ain't got In The Aeroplane Over The Sea and Black Foliage, you ain't heard shit." > You don't have Beulah grouped as power-pop, but I do-- it's melodic > guitar rock with some bells and whistles, which fits the bill IMHO, but > admittedly "power pop" is one of yer more tricky-to-pin-down terms. Sheesh, your definition sounds like pretty much any rock but punk rock. I think of powerpop as being much more anthemic and driving. Think Too Much Joy or Blur (to name disparate edges). > But part of what I was saying re: E6 (and my reaction to it) was that I > didn't give the bands themselves a fair listen because it sounded like > too much work, and that that was a sign of my incipient fogeyism. I'd buy that... and did! > So I actually don't really know what most of them sound like other than > what I've read. See, I was really talking about myself... am I being > "emo"? (smiley emoticon etc.) Remember, if it weren't for "emo", we wouldn't have "emoticon". > Never heard the Music Tapes... if they found a way to make you hate them and > still be an E6 band, I think I'll... give 'em a miss. Stewart loves 'em, if I recall. > Jeme: > >>Much of what has been called shoegazer or twee is probably emo. > >>It's about self-obsession, mostly. > > I just recently even found out that the AMG has a "music map" for > something called "Twee Pop"... I thought it was just a derogatory term > critics used. That there is a mighty emasculating genre name. That's exactly the problem with emo. It's a term thrown about by types not really into the genre. It's an insult that becomes a label because there's nobody on the inside to defend against it. > >>And yeah, you know it when you hear it. > > But but but... if you know it when you hear it, then how come much of what > has been called shoegazer or twee is only *probably* emo? It's only *probably* emo because it depends on the attitude and thematic material more than the sound of the music. I was generalizing about shoegazers and twee-stuffs based on my own experience. There are also probably lots of twee pop bands that avoid the emo material. > PS is this Narduar guy, like, a puppet? I keep picturing noted hip-hop > artist Triumph when I read those interviews... Oh, man. That'd be the shit. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:26:03 -0500 (EST) From: Jill Brand Subject: The exquisite Moz and Portland You know, some Smith fans became Smiths fans before there was an image, or maybe before they knew there was an image. I remember hearing How Soon Is Now on WMBR (the MIT radio station) and totally freaking out over it (I was listening to the Jam, Echo, Siouxie, Elvis C. and stuff like that at the time). I tried to find out where to get it, and the DJ said it was the flip side of William, It Was Really Nothing, which it was...but only on the 12" not the 7". Newbury Comics didn't have it; nobody had it; Hatful of Hollow wasn't out yet, and I bought up everything of theirs I could find but I still didn't have How Soon Is Now. When I finally got it, I played it about a thousand times until my husband threatened to burn it. It was truly the music and the torture but most definitely the self-effacing humor that sucked me in. Not an image. Misery without humor is boring. Misery with humor is what makes most art fun. Between 1985 and 1986 I did more inane things to see the Smiths than I have for any other band (well, except the Kinks, but they are a whole 'nother story). I don't know how anyone can get all maudlin and serious over Morrissey. If he took himself half as seriously as others did, he'd be dead by now. My friend Steven and I imagined that both he and Richard Butler would end up in Vegas some day. It could happen. As for Portland, my friend Miriam (Eddie Tews, this is the same Miriam who went to see the Soft Boys on Halloween in Seattle last year) is now living in Portland and plans to go to the show, but she doesn't know anyone. Who's going? God, I wish she were here. Some of you may remember meeting her at the shows at the Bottom Line in April 2002. We have a superb time at concerts together. Jill, who can't wait till tomorrow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: The exquisite Moz and Portland On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Jill Brand wrote: > As for Portland, my friend Miriam (Eddie Tews, this is the same Miriam > who went to see the Soft Boys on Halloween in Seattle last year) is now > living in Portland and plans to go to the show, but she doesn't know > anyone. Who's going? God, I wish she were here. I met Miriam at the Halloween show, too. We corresponded a couple of times via email and she seemed very cool and excited to do some stuff, but then she got too busy with the commute between Seattle and Portland and ended up just disappearing. Anyway, Michael Wolfe and Vivien and I, at the very least, will be at the show here in Happenin' P-town. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:11:07 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Who's Tom Clark? on 10/29/03 4:30 PM, Maximilian Lang at maximlang@hotmail.com wrote: >> From: Tom Clark >> To: The Myriad Ones >> Subject: Who's Tom Clark? >> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:09:31 -0800 > >> By popular request, now you and your friends and family members can ask >> this >> days old question whenever they want! Just in time for the holidaze!! > >> http://www.cafeshops.com/whostomclark > > What, no 'FUCK YOU TOM CLARK' thongs? > Now you're just being silly. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:42:12 -0500 From: Johnathan Vail Subject: Re: Emo And here the only Emo I was thinking of was: http://www.emophilips.com/ jv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:45:44 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! On Oct 29, 2003, at 4:25 PM, Eb wrote: >> Naturally, it would be a far better show if it was animated. On Oct 29, 2003, at 3:56 PM, Steve Talkowski wrote: > Only if it was done in anime style, like that incredible sequence > Production IG did for "Kill Bill Vol I". I thought they should have made it look more like Blood: The Last Vampire. Anime boy recommends - Haibane Renmei (Charcoal Feather Federation) Juuni Kokki / 12 Kokuki (Twelve Kingdoms) Last Exile - - Steve __________ When I watch the Fox News channel, I can't believe how much nerve those people have and how they assume that people are just going to swallow that shit. - Thom Yorke ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:51:43 -0500 From: Johnathan Vail Subject: Boston (Somerville) on the 30th? I have on http://www.robynhitchcock.com/auditori.htm that there is a show tomorrow? Is this true, is there any feg activity planned? jv ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:13:13 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Miles Goosens Subject: Waiting for Emo [was re: Emo] Johnathan Vail: >And here the only Emo I was thinking of was: > >http://www.emophilips.com/ And here I was with the reference (by way of Tenuta) just yesterday. Gotta hit 'em straight up with the science, I guess... later, Miles last played: Cobra Verde, NIGHTLIFE (3rd spin in the car, and still kicking massive hiney -- should have checked 'em out sooner, but the GBV connection was keeping me from doing it. My loss.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:15:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: I smoked my first cigarette at ten > Eb: > >>I've wondered in the past why "When I Was Young" isn't on the above > >>album. Seems like a glaring oversight, because it certainly gets more > >>airplay than at least half those songs. I don't recall the > >>chronology...maybe it came out after this compilation was released? > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Rex.Broome wrote: > Oh, hey, I spaced on this... that's a different comp than mine. Here, you > want this one, it's way better: > http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=CASS80308142014&sql=A1usyxdsbjols > Slightly less guilt-inducing? Definitely better, especially the inclusion of "Sandoz", which has a big fuzzy Hendrixy riff section followed by a quiet glockenspiel bit. Interestingly, I see it has been covered by the Smashing Pumpkins: IIRC, Sandoz was the name of the lab where they synthesized LSD. My only minor gripe is that this album doesn't include the instrumental "Gratefully Dead", but I expect it isn't as good as I recall. And the useful notes on this page also mention their version of 'Paint it, black' as worthy of inclusion. I would like to see a family tree of the various lineups. My recollection is that "Don't let me be misunderstood" was basically the original band, probably with Dave Rowberry replacing Alan Price. - - Mike Godwin n.p. Donovan "Hey Gyp (Dig the Slowness)" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:28:23 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Subgenres not mentioned herein: Grebo, Foxcore, C-86, Nudecore Capuchin wrote: > >>Never heard the Music Tapes... if they found a way to make you hate them and >>still be an E6 band, I think I'll... give 'em a miss. > > Stewart loves 'em, if I recall. I do, dearly. If you can get past the overly-studied lofi approach, there's quite a fine concept in there. The "Death of Superman" scene is quite touching. But I can see why most people hate it, and it's not just because it's rumoured to have had the most expensive packaging ever produced for a single CD. Their second album is much more interesting, but sadly, almost impossible to get. I had to take mine off a radio recording. Ksoter's earlier group, Chocolate USA, is probably more fun, but still slightly disturbing. Stewart (just back from injections, inspections, detections, neglections and all kinds of stuff that they was doin' to me at the sleep clinic -- seems I ain't doing so well as I wuz.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:33:21 -0500 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Micro$haft Employee loses job over blog post (No RH) Steve Talkowski wrote: > > How this is a "security violation" in Microsoft's eyes is beyond me. For once, the Slashdot crowd summarized this quite well: as a temp employee, he signed an NDA. If he felt he could publish photos of private MS property, what else might he disclose? Sounds like a security risk to me. It's up there with the whining about "No Verdana in Jaguar" on MeFi, despite the copious links to . Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:46:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: I smoked my first cigarette at ten Just remembered that Burdon and co. did a good version of Fred Neil's "The other side of this life", produced by Zappa IIRC. This song used to be somthing of a folk standard and was also covered by the Jefferson Airplane and Peter Paul and Mary. - - MRG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:09:11 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: "emo" explained, maybe On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Capuchin wrote: > Much of what has been called shoegazer or twee is probably emo. Uh, I've never heard anyone use the term *that* broadly. I first heard the term around 1995-6. There were a bunch of bands, many of them on Gravity Records, which had screamy vocals and were in other ways reminiscent of mid-80s Dischord band Rites Of Spring. To me, they always sounded like people who didn't have the technical skill to imitate Husker Du fully. There was also some more melodic stuff coming out of Champaign-Urbana that was also "emo" to my ears. The scene was tiny and inbred, enough so that we used to joke about how if a record had a picture of a tree or a schematic diagram of a mechanical part on it, it had to be emo. (This heuristic had something like a 75% success rate at the radio station during the time we were keeping track.) By a few years after that I was hearing people use it to refer to both Sunny Day Real Estate and Fugazi, which didn't seem totally crazy to me; though different from each other, they both had a personal desperation in some of their music which reminded me of the unlistenably screamy emo I was used to. From there, in my perception, it jumped straight to the mainstream -- that is, I started seeing music writers in the newspaper use it, explaining that it meant "emotional hardcore" but applying it to bands that struck me neither as "hardcore" nor as "emo" in any sense I'd yet heard it. My impression is that a lot of people learned the word without having any strong sense of what it meant; it was an "I know it when I hear it" thing at first, and then in the leap to a mass audience it suffered from everyone coming to a different conclusion. It seems to me that saying *anything* with lyrics that could be called 'emotional' is 'emo' is a mistake similar to assuming that the "world wide web" must have had nodes in every country from its inception, because hey, that's what the name says. Maybe "alternative" is a better metaphor for the word's travails than "punk" is. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:13:40 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: "emo" explained, maybe On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Aaron Mandel wrote: > Maybe "alternative" is a better metaphor for the word's travails than > "punk" is. By the way, sorry if that all sounded didactic. I've gotten used to people making me feel authoritative about this question, which doesn't mean I am. I'm seeing Robyn tonight! If anyone wants to say hi, I'll be in green shoes and (assuming I don't spill anything on it before then) a Rilo Kiley t-shirt. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:30:17 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: "emo" explained, maybe On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Capuchin wrote: > > Much of what has been called shoegazer or twee is probably emo. > > Uh, I've never heard anyone use the term *that* broadly. I didn't mean to apply the term in the way I think you interpreted it. I know the emocore-type screaming vocals you described and I thought that part was well-understood, but I was trying to also include this other style and say that it can be emo and seems to be quite often. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:55:28 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: Guilty "Displeasures" / Conspicuous Gaps At 10:29 PM 10/27/2003 -0500, Ken Weingold wrote: > > In what circle of hell are STP considered "essential"? > >San Diego? > >Ouch, sorry, had to take that one.... Heh heh. :) It's true though - as is anything by Pearl Jam, because of Mr. Vedder. I've got both in my collection. STP tends to fall more into the "guilty" category. I was most impressed by Scott Weiland's solo album, but I'm sure the Daniel Lanois production and arrangements had a lot to do with it. blink-182 is also considered essential listening down here. And P.O.D. and Jewel. *shiver* - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #405 ********************************