From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #275 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, July 16 2003 Volume 12 : Number 275 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: prog attack! [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: Speaking of Way-Too-Lengthy Prog Rock... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey <] RE: Speaking of Way-Too-Lengthy Prog Rock... [Eb ] add witch, season to taste [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] Re: add miserable whine, season to taste [Eb ] Re: prog attack! [Dolph Chaney ] smarm [gshell@metronet.com] RE: Gentle Giant, etc. ["da9ve stovall" ] Re: Toronto/VW/iPod ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Robyn, Kim etc. at Clerkenwell [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] Art-rock v Prog v Pretentious Wankery [crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com] Re: Toronto/VW/iPod [Capuchin ] Exciting new genre: JANGLE-PROG!!! ["Rex.Broome" ] attention DC book-lovers [Christopher Gross ] Re: Toronto/VW/iPod ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Ain't ain't a word and I ain't gonna use it ["Rex.Broome" ] Alt-Jangle-Psych-Country-Post-Electro-Prog ["Rex.Broome" Subject: Re: prog attack! Quoting James Dignan : > >I rule the Beatles out as prog-rockers on this count alone: if they > used > >wonky chords, it was solely by accident. They didn't even read music > after > >all - and I think this factor, ladies and gentlemen, alone causes our > Prog > >Jury to rule them out. (Anyway, they didn't have a keyboard player per > se.) > > reading music has little to do with an ability to deliberately play any > weird chords they found. Of course - but (how to put this delicately...) prog fans tend to be snobs about musical proficiency (which in their minds includes music-reading ability), and so QED. > What you've got to realise is what music was like prior to the Beatles. > As > far as use of chords goes, the Beatles were from another planet to the > rest > of the rock'n'roll world in the early days. People were still going > 'ooo!' > about the strange chords used occasionally by Buddy Holly (one of them > was > even known as the "peggy sue" chord). So when the Beatles came along, > anything with more than half a dozen or so chords would have been > regarded > as odd. Yet they were grabbing things from outside the rock repertoire > (often through Macca';s memories of the jazz his dad used to play). From > the major sixth ending of "She loves you" through the augmented of "I'm > happy just to dance with you" and the flattened ninth (I think) of "You > can't do that", they were always looking for something that would be out > there, beyond the normal expectations. Imagine for a moment you'd been > brought up with chord patterns like those of "Heartbreak Hotel", > "That'll > be the day" and "Oh Carol". Those are the only rock-related chord > patterns > you're used to. Suddenly, for the first time, you're presented with "If > I > fell"... Oh well, yes - but now we're talking seriously again ;) Thing is, most often the Beatles' odd chord sequences *worked* and didn't strike anyone other than musicians as being odd. (Ditto phrasings - who was just talking about "Yesterday"'s seven-bar phrases?) Prog put odd chords/rhythms/meters right up front as badge of honor, and dared you to say, no that doesn't sound right - those were just your ears, too set in their mainstream ways. 'Sides which (as you note), they were untraditional for rock - but not for other musics (except for very odd things like some of the chords in "Strawberry Fields Forever" or that hammering flatted ninth in "I Want to Tell You"). I exaggerate to some degree...but one of the striking things about some prog, esp. when it's still more or less song-based like Genesis, is how the modulations seem utterly unlike what traditional harmonic practice might suggest - and how, when they work, they add an effective mysteriousness to the music. (Although a lot of post-Debussy composers used similar effects - speaking of "what the fuck is that chord doing there?" reactions at the time among trad musicians.) > But who the hell cares? May I suggest that instead of criticizing those who care, you think about what you might do to improve the...ah, the hell with it. I certainly wasn't trying to police musical boundaries! Anyway, the Beatles pretty much predate prog - and are, of course, a necessary antecedent to it, from which a whole lot of prog derives & w/o which prog would be impossible. But what about Zappa? Or even Cream's more experimental studio moments (_Wheels...)? And I realy don't hear Bruce's voice as all that high-register (and lord did his voice get adenoidal in later life - sad, really). ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: sex, drugs, revolt, Eskimos, atheism ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:30:54 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: Speaking of Way-Too-Lengthy Prog Rock... Quoting Eb : > >and there's Jon Anderson's > >voice to be dealt with (I'm amazed that he's fathered several children) > - > His lyrics suck, but I do think Anderson's voice is a marvel. I'm big > on voices which are instantly identifiable, and is there *any* voice > more instantly identifiable than Anderson's? What's more, it doesn't > seem like his voice has changed at all through the band's history. No > new shakiness, pitch problems, etc. Maybe the hardcore concert tapers > would disagree, I dunno. In their own way, though, the lyrics work: Anderson's stated he was going more for sound than sense, while trying to convey a sense of positivity. If *that* makes you go bleccch, well, at least he succeeded. I agree about the distinctiveness (although if you've heard Chris Squire's solo album, he comes close - and that Buggles guy did a reasonable impersonation on _Drama_), and usually like it. But damn, it's just unearthly. > True. Probably more consistently than King Crimson, even. Though I > always wonder why nobody ever did a kickass cover of "The Great > Deceiver," 'cuz that song smokes, man. Agreed - probably some reservations about the lyrics might prevent some covers, though. I was once toying with the idea of making up punk/new wave covers of prog songs - only got as far as crossbreeding "Roundabout" with "Pump It Up" (which is just perfect). Too bad I'm not musician enough to actually make the noises, though... I think I had a sort of Husker Du version of "Close to the Edge," and a Ramones take on "Lucky Man"... ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: This album is dedicated to anyone who started out as an animal and :: winds up as a processing unit. :: --Soft Boys, note, _Can of Bees_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:33:51 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: Speaking of Way-Too-Lengthy Prog Rock... >Agreed - probably some reservations about the lyrics might prevent some >covers, though. Maybe they could change it to "Health food JUNKIE." Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:39:33 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: add witch, season to taste Addendum to my Jon Anderson comment: I sort of meant to say that his voice is definitely an acquired taste, of the sort that not everyone is apt to acquire. Not dissimilar in that respect from a certain singer from the Bay Area beloved by myself, Miles, Rex... - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: PLEASE! You are sending cheese information to me. I don't want it. :: I have no goats or cows or any other milk producing animal! :: --"raus" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:43:03 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: add miserable whine, season to taste >Addendum to my Jon Anderson comment: I sort of meant to say that his voice >is definitely an acquired taste, of the sort that not everyone is apt to >acquire. Not dissimilar in that respect from a certain singer from the Bay >Area beloved by myself, Miles, Rex... Anderson's voice is high, but it has *body*. He can also hold a note. Some things just shouldn't have their own website: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/joanielchachi.html Eb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:03:57 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: prog attack! At 11:24 PM 7/15/2003, Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey wrote: >I realy don't hear Bruce's voice as all that high-register I realize now that the Jack Bruce vocal I had in my head was for his solo tune "Never Tell Your Mother She's Out Of Tune." Yes, I'd say Cream on WHEELS OF FIRE's studio half and Jack Bruce on HARMONY ROW and SONGS FOR A TAILOR are prog. (After all, the gig that got Yes signed to Atlantic was their opening set for Cream's last show.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:41:08 -0500 (CDT) From: gshell@metronet.com Subject: smarm response.flush ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jul 2003 06:49:19 -0700 From: "da9ve stovall" Subject: RE: Gentle Giant, etc. >From: Dolph Chaney >oh dear... don't tell me I'm the only Feg who actually HAS some Gentle Giant... Oh, dear no. I've got almost everything they've released, including some of the truly shitty-sounding 'official bootlegs.' >One of those early a.i. "submit 5 albums you like and I'll tell you 100 >more" web-bots told me to pick up Gentle Giant's THE POWER AND THE GLORY (I >think because I mentioned Zappa and Shudder To Think). It's good, >embarrassingly proggy, but not quite to my liking. TP&TG is possibly their most bombastic, though there's some stonking music on it, and I like it fairly well. You might be happier with their double-live _Playing the Fool_, where they get their ya-yas out a bit more. _Octopus_ and _In a Glass House_ are the other best studio efforts, followed closely by the uneven but still pretty cool _Free Hand_, which is one of the more accessible. There are a couple stinkers in the lot, including whichever album was their last (I think) (_Civilian?_. >4) The prog that I like balances its preciousness with >some WHOMP. Gentle Giant is 100% whomp-free. Ooooh, wrong, wrong, wrong. Gentle Giant at their best were tremendously heavy, more than a little funky (not in the olfactory sense), occasionally dissonant, complex and confident (to me, those things combine for a pretty powerful WHOMP), and ultra-unbelievably hairy (in the sense of being hirsute; or course, that's not a distinction to separate them from other 70's proggers). > To me, prog is about Fripp / Wetton / Bruford or Howe / Squire / > Bruford or McLaughlin / Laird / Cobham -- I enjoy it when you can > forget that the keyboards are there. I sympathize, and agree to a fair extent (can't get enough of Bruford), but not so far as to rule out National Health, Hatfield and the North, >From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey >Whoever mentioned Gentle Giant? At least in their prime, that was the real >deal: a deep love of medieval polyphony combined w/a melodic and chordal >sense apparently derived from the thorniest of 20c classical composers, plus >a wacky sense of instrumentation. Complex as hell, but not derivative: >genuininely progressive (a lot of prog wasn't). Bingo! On all counts. (Eb) >on voices which are instantly identifiable, and is there *any* voice >more instantly identifiable than Anderson's? What's more, it doesn't >seem like his voice has changed at all through the band's history. No >new shakiness, pitch problems, etc. Maybe the hardcore concert tapers >would disagree, I dunno. (Not that I'm a hardcore *Yes* concert taper, but, . . .) I think he's been sounding progressively more like Winnie the Pooh for the last ten or fifteen years - the original Sterling Holloway (?) incarnation. da9ve ("Prog-Boy(TM) and Prog-Boy(TM)'s Mellotron sold separately." - - Dougie Boucher) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:00:19 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Toronto/VW/iPod Mike Swedene wrote: > > So when is the official listening party? It's TBD, but next week sometime. Stewart (who is getting an early 80s Stumpjumper tomorrow) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:54:23 +0100 (BST) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: Robyn, Kim etc. at Clerkenwell According to the Terry Edwards Newsletter I've just received, the Naff '70s Fest starts on Clerkenwell Green @ 9pm. Bit late for you, Godders, perhaps? Hope to see a few folks there, though. Tony? Matt? Crowbar Joe The Beatles sold out when they sacked Pete Best... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:19:34 +0100 (BST) From: crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com Subject: Art-rock v Prog v Pretentious Wankery I think the debate suffers slightly from similar transatlantic-semantic problems to those which dog the hugely entertaining Pikelet/Pancake/Scone discourse. I've found myself, on more than one occasion, talking to an American who takes my admission of a certain partiality to a bit of art-rock, to mean that I like Yes, ELP, Rush etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. In Britain art-rock generally refers - in keeping with I think it was Rex's definition - to the likes of Wire, Ubu, VU, Beefheart etc. Crowbar Joe Re: the other etymological entanglement. In cricket and rugby, international 'matches' are often referred to as 'tests'. And how about throwing in the concept of 'rubbers' in there as well...!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:33:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Toronto/VW/iPod On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > (who is getting an early 80s Stumpjumper tomorrow) I just have to take a moment to share the pleasure I experienced in a bargain last week. Since my old bike was stolen last September, I've been riding a frame much too large for me. And since I'm still really poor, I hadn't been able to do anything about it. Well, hunting through the basement at the Community Cycling Center revealed a reasonably sized lugged steel road frame with horizontal dropouts. Seemed totally good for me. It had been stolen at some point in its long history and the serial number had been ground off and many layers of thick red metallic paint covered any distinguishing marks. They sold it to me for $20 and I took it home to see what I could make of it. Well, in the days of gruelling paint stripping, I found stamps on the frame that indicated very good quality forged dropouts and butted Reynolds 531 tubeset! I ground and cut off the cable guides and downtube shifter bosses, but I'm not too skilled at such thing and it shows. I can't afford a good paint job, but I did reasonably well for what I had (a tasteful metallic silver). However, the quality of the paint is such that it probably wouldn't last long under daily use. Also, the monochrome job doesn't accent the lugs well. So I covered the main tubes with Avery Graphics A7 reflective film. And MAN is it bright. I'm not going to be using this bike for any stealth operations, but nobody can say they didn't see me on a dark road. Does anyone know how I can take a photo of this thing and show off the reflective properties of this film? It's basically the stuff used on road signs that lights up within a very narrow angle of a light source. Anyway, it was a steal at $20 and now it looks right spiffy. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:46:42 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Exciting new genre: JANGLE-PROG!!! James: >>only it's "lead guitarist who thinks he's a bass player" in my case. Then >>again, loads of non prog bands score high on this scale. Were the >>Who prog, for instance? Hmmm. This suggestion allows for the first-ever hint that early REM is as prog as the day is long! Jeffrey: >>Is the pretentiousness covering Brahms? Cuz what prog band *didn't* cover a >>classical composer? (add another criterion...) Hmmm. This suggestion allows for the first-ever hint that the Byrds are as prog as the day is long! (The Bach guitar solo in "She Don't Care About Time" if you're keeping score at home.) Back to James: >>If you like King Crimson and Yes, you'll automatically like ELP and Asia, >>right? I don't think so. This hearkens back to Eb's observation that in fact you're more likely to hold strong prejudices *within* your preferred genres than *against* your non-preferred ones... see also the reason semi-thread about "who do you like who eveyone else who likes them likes someone else you hate"... ___ Dolph, then Eb: >>>> 4) The prog that I like balances its preciousness with some WHOMP. >>Just how I like my women. The funny continues. >>The Screaming Trees, "prog"? Pshaw. James has averred this several times, and I have the same reaction. But again I have only the one album, so I may be missing later tendencies... and I should probably listen back to that record and check myself before I wreck myself on this point. _____ Mike S: >>also when is the new REM album coming out? Next year. We have the horribly titled "In Time" double-disc compilation of WB material as a stopgap in the fall... 2 new songs and apparently some rarities... presumably I already have most of them but to have them collected would be nice (especially the tunes from soundracks to execrable bat-films and such). ___ Me, then JeFFrey: >> Sorta. More like we can joke around about it a bit more. You can't > make > fun of your friend's obnoxious girlfriend when he's in the room, but > wait > till he walks out the door and hoooo boy. >>Is there a reason the girlfriend is referred to as "he" here? Ah, I failed to set the scene properly. The girlfriend is not in the room. Let's say it's me, you and Quail at a party, and we say, "Hey, Quail, how's it going with Progaretta?" And he says, "Great, I've never been happier, she's the best thing that ever happened to me." Then he leaves and you turn to me and say, "Wow, it's cool that Quail is so happy... but that Progaretta, she's so pretentious, always singing those awful lyrics as if she were Charlton Heston as Moses delivering the Ten Commandments... and I hear she's surprisingly inept as a performer, always sloppy with notes and tempo." And I say, "Yeah, but hey... nice mellotrons." - -Rex "but it was a wonderful party, really it was" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:41:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Art-rock v Prog v Pretentious Wankery On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 crowbar.joe@btopenworld.com wrote: > I think the debate suffers slightly from similar transatlantic-semantic > problems to those which dog the hugely entertaining > Pikelet/Pancake/Scone discourse. I've found myself, on more than one > occasion, talking to an American who takes my admission of a certain > partiality to a bit of art-rock, to mean that I like Yes, ELP, Rush etc. > Nothing could be further from the truth. In Britain art-rock generally > refers - in keeping with I think it was Rex's definition - to the likes > of Wire, Ubu, VU, Beefheart etc. That's how I'd use it. But then I've known people who think "acid rock" just means "really really loud" instead of, uh, influenced by acid. (Not that that's a genre name I'd really use anymore.) I've tried coining a genre-name or two (acid chamber-pop, neo-jetset) but no one cared. Sniffle. I still think there should be a country/metal fusion using the band name International Harvester of Sorrow... - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I play the guitar. Sometimes I play the fool:: __John Lennon__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:45:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Gentle Giant By some strange coincidence, after yesterday's big Gentle Giant discussion, I got George Pelecanos' novel _Hell to Pay_ and found that it mentions Gentle Giant. A guy who works in a used book and record store brings his soul-loving friend Al Green's LP _I'm Still in Love with You_: "Funny thing is, it came in with this carton of seventies rock, a lot of hard blues-metal and also weird stuff some pot smoker had to be listening to. I found Al Green filed alphabetically, after Gentle Giant and Gong." "Herb smokers used to listen to Al, too. People used to listen to all sorts of music then, wasn't no barriers set up like it is now. Young man like you, you missed it. Was a real good time." "I think you might have mentioned that to me before...." (p.235) I was amused. Anyway... - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:58:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: attention DC book-lovers Oh, speaking of books: I walked by Second Story Books last night and saw that they are celebrating their 30th anniversary with a "one-third off everything" sale! It's going on at all three locations, ending July 27 I believe. I restrained myself and only bought a nice 1884 edition of The Household Book of Poetry (Chas. A. Dana, ed.) for two-thirds of twenty bucks. (The aforementioned Pelecanos book was part of an Amazon order that happened to arrive yesterday.) Anyone in the area with a book addiction will find this a good opportunity to save money (or buy still more books). - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:06:27 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Toronto/VW/iPod Capuchin wrote: > > They sold it to me for $20 > ... butted Reynolds 531 tubeset! man, nothing rides like 531! I once got a Raleigh 531 tourer for 10 quid. Sweet ride, but the early 1980s brakes were a little ropey. My Stumpy is a singlespeed conversion. > Does anyone know how I can take a photo of this > thing and show off the > reflective properties of this film? Well, single light source flash wouldn't cut it. I suggest arranging as many different lights around it as you can. Stewart (about to do a photoshoot of my recumbent for a bike mag) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:19:23 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Ain't ain't a word and I ain't gonna use it JeFFrey: >>if your education and cultural background makes classical allusions >>part of your life (which was the case w/Genesis, as far as I know), it >>would be *more* pretentious to write songs going, "Woke up dis >>moahnin', mule don' wanna plow." (Notice of pet peeve: well >>educated rockers suddenly deciding they have to use "bad" grammar >>to convey their street-level authenticity...) I'm split on this issue. If they "suddenly decide" to do it, that's pretty cringe-inducing, I'll agree, and if it's as exaggerated as your example, forget it. But sometimes it just bespeaks a love of the form and its attendant idioms. I think Robyn's brilliant at sythesizing this stuff... you can hear it all the way back to "Wey Wey Hep a Whole" (check the syntax!) and "Face of Death" and there's some of it on "Luxor" as well. It's like the grammar arrives with the chord sequences, but then he hangs educated and surreal adornments to it and it fits. It was one of the first things that made me interested in his stuff-- I can even point to "Ain't you never seen a disembodied soul before?" as a key moment in my own personal fegicization. (I'd bet that non-Fegs find just this tendency one of Robyn's most annoying traits, though.) Big influence on my own writing. Early on I hewed to the early David Byrne's theory that rock lyrics should be more like the way people really talk, but at some point I started mixing that with the way Robyn (and Dylan and others) play fast and loose with the old-school tropes. It's comfortable for me given my country-folk background (just try to write a country tune with impeccable grammar) and I'm pleased with many of the results. "Ain't" just sounds better in your average pop chorus than most of the genteel alternatives. - -Rex "Isn't Any Sunshine When She Is Gone" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:11:49 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Art-rock v Prog v Pretentious Wankery Jeffrey wrote: > > "acid rock" ... > (Not that that's a genre name > I'd really use any more.) Unless, of course, in the case of a band citing hydrogen ions as their major influence. Stewart (who used to work with the sister of two of the members of The Enid; does that count?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:12:41 -0500 From: "Iosso, Ken" Subject: RE: Exciting new genre: JANGLE-PROG!!! Jangle-pop and alt-country are my favorites by far probably throughout rock and roll history. Bands in these categories would be Jangle-pop: (also with a big psychedelic swing) Hitchcock, The Shins, The Thrills, The Beatles, The Byrds, The Starlight Mints, REM, Yo La Tengo, maybe Love, early Pink Floyd, Belle & Sebastian Alt-country or maybe folk-rock: Dylan, Uncle Tupelo and related bands, Billy Bragg?, Neil Young and related bands, Jayhawks, Joni Mitchell Are these useful categories? Do you use them? As for art-rock or progressive rock: Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Renaissance, Nektar, King Crimson, ELP, ELO - it does seem to be everything wrong with rock in the late 70's which punk came to clean up. Ken Iosso -----Original Message----- From: Rex.Broome [mailto:Rex.Broome@preferredmedia.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:47 AM To: 'fegmaniax@smoe.org' Subject: Exciting new genre: JANGLE-PROG!!! James: >>only it's "lead guitarist who thinks he's a bass player" in my case. Then >>again, loads of non prog bands score high on this scale. Were the >>Who prog, for instance? Hmmm. This suggestion allows for the first-ever hint that early REM is as prog as the day is long! Jeffrey: >>Is the pretentiousness covering Brahms? Cuz what prog band *didn't* cover a >>classical composer? (add another criterion...) Hmmm. This suggestion allows for the first-ever hint that the Byrds are as prog as the day is long! (The Bach guitar solo in "She Don't Care About Time" if you're keeping score at home.) Back to James: >>If you like King Crimson and Yes, you'll automatically like ELP and Asia, >>right? I don't think so. This hearkens back to Eb's observation that in fact you're more likely to hold strong prejudices *within* your preferred genres than *against* your non-preferred ones... see also the reason semi-thread about "who do you like who eveyone else who likes them likes someone else you hate"... ___ Dolph, then Eb: >>>> 4) The prog that I like balances its preciousness with some WHOMP. >>Just how I like my women. The funny continues. >>The Screaming Trees, "prog"? Pshaw. James has averred this several times, and I have the same reaction. But again I have only the one album, so I may be missing later tendencies... and I should probably listen back to that record and check myself before I wreck myself on this point. _____ Mike S: >>also when is the new REM album coming out? Next year. We have the horribly titled "In Time" double-disc compilation of WB material as a stopgap in the fall... 2 new songs and apparently some rarities... presumably I already have most of them but to have them collected would be nice (especially the tunes from soundracks to execrable bat-films and such). ___ Me, then JeFFrey: >> Sorta. More like we can joke around about it a bit more. You can't > make > fun of your friend's obnoxious girlfriend when he's in the room, but > wait > till he walks out the door and hoooo boy. >>Is there a reason the girlfriend is referred to as "he" here? Ah, I failed to set the scene properly. The girlfriend is not in the room. Let's say it's me, you and Quail at a party, and we say, "Hey, Quail, how's it going with Progaretta?" And he says, "Great, I've never been happier, she's the best thing that ever happened to me." Then he leaves and you turn to me and say, "Wow, it's cool that Quail is so happy... but that Progaretta, she's so pretentious, always singing those awful lyrics as if she were Charlton Heston as Moses delivering the Ten Commandments... and I hear she's surprisingly inept as a performer, always sloppy with notes and tempo." And I say, "Yeah, but hey... nice mellotrons." - -Rex "but it was a wonderful party, really it was" Broome ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:13:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Groove Puppy Subject: RH Gig May already have been posted but this just came through on the Terry Edwards newsletter. (H) ====================================================== Terry Edwards Newsletter, July 2003 Clerkenwell Festival Events Hits of the 70s - Terry Edwards and Paul Noble team up with ex-Soft Boys Robyn Hitchcock, Kimberley Rew and Morris Windsor for an evening of scary 70's cover tunes alongside the odd Hitchcock original. www.robynhitchcock.com Where/when - Clerkenwell Green, London EC1, 9pm ===== CHUCKHOLE All that great punk rock taste with only half the calories. http://clix.to/chuckhole http://www.mp3.com/chuckhole __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:41:57 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Alt-Jangle-Psych-Country-Post-Electro-Prog >>Jangle-pop and alt-country are my favorites by far probably throughout >>rock and roll history (...) Are these useful categories? Do you use them? Sorta... I know there are bands forever pegged as "jangle pop" but I find it more useful as a term to describe individual songs with shimmering guitar arpeggios and melodic structures. Take the jangliest bands ever to walk the Earth and you can find totally non-jangling tunes from their earliest days without much trouble. (Put it this way, I think rare indeed would be the band who would describe themselves as a "jangle-rock combo".) Alt-country, just by nature of the construction of its name, seems to have to indicate post-alternative-music music (post-punk at least) so it's an odd term to apply to Young, Parsons, Dylan, etc. although it fits in terms of its meaning as "non-mainstream country" or "rock with generous country influences. However that same tag might apply to the Eagles and some other dreadful '70's soft rock, against which punk was as (nominally) pitched as overblown prog-rock. Genres get really sticky really fast. - -Rex "may I direct you to the AllMusicGuide's Genre Maps if you're in the mood to laugh your ass off?" Broome ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #275 ********************************