From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #274 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, July 16 2003 Volume 12 : Number 274 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Speaking of Prog Rock... [Eb ] RE: Speaking of Prog Rock... ["randalljr" ] Proggin' Robyn ["Rex.Broome" ] Re: Proggin' Robyn [Eb ] Squonk / Skronk ["Rex.Broome" ] quiz meets [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] prog attack! [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Whale rider [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: You say goodbye i say hello toronto ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: prog attack! [Eb ] Give Piece a Chance ["FS Thomas" ] Re: prog attack! [Dolph Chaney ] Re: prog attack! [steve ] RE: Speaking (Way Too Lengthily) of Prog Rock... [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffr] Toronto/VW/iPod [Mike Swedene ] Re: Proggin' Robyn [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] RE: Speaking of Way-Too-Lengthy Prog Rock... [Eb ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:23:55 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: Speaking of Prog Rock... >"Cans and brahms" anyone? How about "Supper's Ready" which I do love? > >I know there have been many bands who are pretentious, but the sheer >consistency of thematic albums, classical allusions, funny costumes, and >self-seriousness I think puts them in a league of their own. I shudder to >think of your competing evidence - but bring it on. Well, for starters, I'd say that ELP was more pretentious than either Yes or Genesis. And regardless of whether you disagree with that, I think it's pretty hard to show that Yes and Genesis had pretensions "in a league of their own" over all other bands of the time. Actually, post-Peter Gabriel, I think Genesis was notably *less* pretentious than their peers. And Yes didn't really wear "funny costumes," anyway. Unless you're counting capes. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:52:32 -0700 From: "randalljr" Subject: RE: Speaking of Prog Rock... - -----Eb----- And Yes didn't really wear "funny costumes," anyway. Unless you're counting capes. - ----------- Rush wins simply because of their "silk bathrobe" phase. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:00:17 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Proggin' Robyn Tom C: >>So let's see. You are sick of LA and want to move. You wax nostalgic about >>the house you grew up in. Sounds like a no-brainer to me. That's what the wife says. And I see it, too. But don't forget the part where I'm constantly bitching about small towns, and the fact that this beloved house is directly adjacent to the small town where I formed all of those negative opinions. I'm one conflicted puppy. Then there's the kids... I sure don't want them going to school in LA, but I didn't have a fun time in that WV school system when I was a kid, either. But... the greater world is more accessible to the backwoods than it used to be. And my wife and I bring experiences of living in all kinds of other places with us... so... I dunno. It's beautiful back there, though. _____ Hey! Let's check Robyn's Prog Index! >Uses odd-numbered time signatures in addition to the usual 3/4 Sometimes, on par with Beatles in such tendencies (although when did 3/4 become usual?) >Several trucks full of keyboards: Nope. One per tour at most, and usually the venue's own piano if any. >Bass pedals: Nope. >Drum kit with more parts than a Swiss watch: This can only really refer to Morris, whose bass drum is smaller than your average tom tom, so no. >"Concept" albums: Not as such, although some are held together by themes. >Lyrics addressing myth, history, obscure regionalisms, and/or band's >roadies: Check, even the last bit if you count tour bus drivers. (nb. this is the second one in a row that's a big "check" for Neil Young, of all proggish people) >Bass player thinks he's lead guitarist: Half-check for Andy. >Drummer thinks he's lead vocalist: Nope, althoough maybe 1/3 point for drummer who sings. >Keyboard player writes using chords he hopes will stump guitarist: Nope; at worst keyboard player overdubs intentionally wrong parts over his own guitar. >Naked men on album covers: Don't think so but maybe somewhere in the liner note sketches to something, albeit probably with a fly's head or somthing. >Sold out horribly to become buttzillion-selling AOR act: "So you think you're in loooo-uh-uh-uh-ove..." (Just kidding.) Mellotron: Sure, or at the least a synthesized equivalent thereof. Pretty abysmal, really. Maybe he can earn some points for adapted folk melodies and the occasional spoken word bits? Those are kind of proggy. _____ Eb: >>For whatever reason, the other group whose "progginess" seems to get >>constantly debated is Kansas. If Kansas is judged to be prog, it can only mean that I was right to once think that the specific definition of prog rock is that it is very very bad and awful music. >>Are we having all this traditional-'70s talk lately, just to spite the departed >>Quail? ;) Sorta. More like we can joke around about it a bit more. You can't make fun of your friend's obnoxious girlfriend when he's in the room, but wait till he walks out the door and hoooo boy. ____ Glen: >>Most Rush fans I know wouldn't even think of owning a Moodys album or a >>King Crimson album. Same goes for Tool fans, come to think of it. I dunno... there's some Crimson/Rush crossover (amonst fegs, even), although there may be relatively few who have complete catalogs of both. And didn't Tool and Crimson actually tour together? - -Rex, eagerly awaiting the Great Eb/Ken Yes/Genesis Debate, hoping for staging akin "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:51:33 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Proggin' Robyn > >>Are we having all this traditional-'70s talk lately, just to spite the >departed Quail? ;) > >Sorta. More like we can joke around about it a bit more. You can't make >fun of your friend's obnoxious girlfriend when he's in the room, but wait >till he walks out the door and hoooo boy. Cool...let's dish about LJ now. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:48:56 -0700 From: "Rex.Broome" Subject: Squonk / Skronk I dunno where I picked it up, but I've long referred to certain guitar sounds as "skronks" or "skronky". Tones that might be also be called "sludgy"... usually distorted without being "crunchy" or "power-chordy". Sometimes atonal and droning. Walk the straight line from Crazy Horse to Sonic Youth and you'll hear a lot of guitar skronk. Where Glen says "squonky", though, I say "squirrelly". ______ Eb on Proggy Fanbase Comparisons: So we get: Floyd: blues-tolerant stoners Yes/Genesis: intellectuals capable of mentally blocking "Sussudio", "Owner of a Lonely Heart" Rush: retarded circus freaks, may enjoy Metallica ELP, Crimson: TBD >>Personally, I definitely consider Rush to be "arty hard-rock" more >>than "hard-rocking prog." Do you consider them arty because *they* think they're being arty? More to the point (and I'm getting rhetorical here, not asking Eb in particular), is "arty" a neutral term? Could it mean either, or both, "pretentious" and/or "esoteric, literate, possessing concerns beyond the prosaic"? Rush strike me as too juvenile-sci-fi to be "artistic". For the most part I prefer to use the term "arty" for stuff like Wire, Pere Ubu, Talking Heads, Eno, Stereolab, on and on in that Velvets vein, whom I like and few of whom have a lot in common with Rush. I would concede Crimson as a possible bridge between the two arties, though. Is Robyn arty, or does being psychedelic sort of conflict with artiness? Does being melodic? I dunno nothing 'bout no Gentle Giant neither. I think I confuse them with Giant, which was like a late-to-the-party AOR dealie from the late '80's, wunnit? - -Rex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:51:58 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: quiz meets >In fact, this list also probably taught me everything I know about sports >and surely answered a dozen questions for me over the last couple of >years. I am particularly proud of the fact that I was able to GUESS >(and I mean that truthfully... no actual memory involved) all the correct >answers to a three part question regarding the most home runs in a World >Series, who hit them, and when. I am still very proud of that. this is known to the members of Zymurgy as a 'rugby jerseys' question, after we successfully managed to guess the main design element of the badge worn by three rugby teams. Not to be confused with the 'he boiled his face' question (a question of the form "what made person X famous?" to which we have no idea). - --- >Generally, in a sport that usually involves contests between two >individuals, a single contest is called a "match" and in a sport that >usually involves contests between two teams of two or more individuals, a >single contest is called a "game". > >Of course, doubles tennis would then have matches and one-on-one >basketball would have games. very odd. Here, games have games, sports have matches. A game of a sport is a contradiction in terms (unless the game is part of a match, like in tennis). >Track and Cross Country events are neither games nor matches but "meets". >Between Chariots of Fire and The Loneliness of a Long Distance Runner I >should know if this is true in the UK as well, but I'm drawing a blank. "Meetings" or "events" (occasionally "championships", although that usually refers to specific meetings at which national, international, or regional titles are contested) in the UK and, until recently, here. Sadly the ridiculous abbreviation (as used in the US) has caught on here - most annoyingly with 'swim meets' for swimming meetings. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:01:26 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: prog attack! >There's also a line in "Any Major Dude Will Tell You" by Steely Dan, re "a >squonk's tears." Apparently, based on a Pennsylvania folktale... yup - I've seen this little character mentioned in a book of 'faboulous folk monsters and creatures'. As reported in the Genesis song, it is a very shy creature that can never be captured. If cornered it will burst into tears and dissolve. - --- >> >Keyboard player writes using chords he hopes will stump guitarist: >> >Genesis only >> >> Hmm. this one is open for debate. > >I rule the Beatles out as prog-rockers on this count alone: if they used >wonky chords, it was solely by accident. They didn't even read music after >all - and I think this factor, ladies and gentlemen, alone causes our Prog >Jury to rule them out. (Anyway, they didn't have a keyboard player per se.) reading music has little to do with an ability to deliberately play any weird chords they found. In the studio, much of the keyboard work was done by George Martin, at least in the early days - and he was by far the most musically trained person around the group. But because he was, basically, a session man, he wasn't likely to try to fool people with chords. But the whole keyboard bit is a canard here. The thing is playing odd chords that will confound either the rest of the band or - more likely - the audience. What you've got to realise is what music was like prior to the Beatles. As far as use of chords goes, the Beatles were from another planet to the rest of the rock'n'roll world in the early days. People were still going 'ooo!' about the strange chords used occasionally by Buddy Holly (one of them was even known as the "peggy sue" chord). So when the Beatles came along, anything with more than half a dozen or so chords would have been regarded as odd. Yet they were grabbing things from outside the rock repertoire (often through Macca';s memories of the jazz his dad used to play). From the major sixth ending of "She loves you" through the augmented of "I'm happy just to dance with you" and the flattened ninth (I think) of "You can't do that", they were always looking for something that would be out there, beyond the normal expectations. Imagine for a moment you'd been brought up with chord patterns like those of "Heartbreak Hotel", "That'll be the day" and "Oh Carol". Those are the only rock-related chord patterns you're used to. Suddenly, for the first time, you're presented with "If I fell"... >>Bass pedals: check > >Not sure. neither am I, but the sound of "Sun king" suggests that it's possible >>Lyrics addressing myth, history, obscure regionalisms, and/or band's >>roadies: check > >Check on at least a couple counts. three, I think. All four if you count contemporary politics as history. >>Naked men on album covers: Rush (the putto on _Trespass_ doesn't count) > >Not that I'm aware. There may be one hidden on Revolver somewhere. well, there is one on the poster that was included with the White Album. >> >Sold out horribly to become buttzillion-selling AOR act: Genesis only >> >> "Freeeeeee as a bird..." > >The best-selling group ever has to do something to *sell out*? Ruled on >technicality, sorry. yup. I don't think there's any point during their time together when they did anything that could really be regarded as 'selling out'. But the threetles resurrecting a demo tape and rerecording it to release as a teaser for a CD/DVD set? I smell sell-out. I realising that I count as prog, too, on this basis - only it's "lead guitarist who thinks he's a bass player" in my case. Then again, loads of non prog bands score high on this scale. Were the Who prog, for instance? But who the hell cares? It's not like there are hard-defined borders anywhere saying "abandon all mellotrons all ye who enter here". Music is music, and whatever boundaries there may have once been are very flimsy. And even then they're not infallible. Pink Floyd, Screaming Trees, and ELO all seem more prog to me than Rush, yet none of them are normally considered prog bands. These remaining boundaries that they're only really useful as rough pointers to point people towards other music they might like - and again, there's no infallibility in it. If you like King Crimson and Yes, you'll automatically like ELP and Asia, right? I don't think so. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:10:47 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Whale rider >Just saw Whale Rider with the family this weekend. In places it was a bit >slow, but the >charactors were appealing (the lead child actor was wonderful) & it seemed >to give a good sense >of a particular cultural situation -- New Zeland Maori trying to maintain >customs in the present. >It also seemed like an intelligent, horizon-broadening film for the >family. Well, it has a couple of >"bad" words, but they deal w/ the differences between boys & girls, which >is very relevant to >families. > >I'm mostly wondering what James thinks of it. James, I seem to remember >you have some >Maori blood? I could have just addressed him, but there's been a spate of >movie discussion. Before I start this, I want to clear a couple of things up. No, I don't have any Maori blood, so this is the view of an outsider, but one who's closer to the action, as it were. Also, to be perfectly honest, I haven't seen it, but by all accounts it sticks pretty well to the book, which is written by Maoridom's top writer, Witi Ihimaera (I've read a few of his, and they're consistently fine work). It does stick very much to modern (if regional) Maori experience, too, and reaction to the movie has been overwhelmingly positive here, both within the general population and within the tangatawhenua[1]. And the latter in particular would've raised merry hell if it wasn't true to the spirit of the place or to the customs of the local iwi [2]. Many of the actors were from the local tribal groups, although the leads are well-known figures nationally (Rawiri Paratene in particular is a high profile NZ actor). So in some ways I can't really answer the question directly but there are a few details I can point to. The "regional" part's perhaps the most important as far as that's concerned. It is set (and was filmed) in the rural north-eastern North Island, where the Maori make up over 50% of the population. It's also in many ways one of the more isolated parts of the country, and old customs have survived very well there. But it's close enough to Auckland that the lure of the big city is enough to pull the rural community apart a little - a lot of the young head of to Auckland never to return, and it has become harder to maintain some of the traditional ways. The marae[3] is still the centre of the community though, in a way that has long gone in much of the country. And things like kapa haka [4] groups still thrive there. Also, it's spiritually one of the two most important parts of the country to Maori - the sacred mountain of Hikurangi is at the centre of the region. It's also a fantastic area to visit. Everything's so laid-back, and it's like progress with all its negative connotations hasn't really had much effect there. In some ways it's a lot like rural New Zealand was forty or so years ago - friendly, easy-going, and living at a slower pace. There are downsides too, of course - high unemployment, rising crime (particularly with gangs replacing the marae as the main social group for some), lower level of amenities, and the like. With the upsurge in pride in Maoritanga[5] and te reo Maori [6] in recent years some of the traditional ways have seen a resurgence, but in many ways it's still a remnant of the way things were, especially as regards the community spirit of the marae. Marcy might have some insights - she's been teaching based on some Ihimaera work... James (footnotes? you want footnotes?) 1- "people of the land" - the usual Maori name for the Maori. 2- tribes. In the case of this region, Ngati Porou is the largest iwi, although there are several other, smaller iwi in the area. 3- the traditional tribal village. Nowadays more used for ceremonial occasions, like a village hall/square 4- traditional cultural group, with emphasis on dance and music 5- not really translateable... "Maori-ness" would be a rough attempt 6- the Maori language James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:16:47 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: You say goodbye i say hello toronto Barbara Soutar wrote: > > Now is a TTC station the same as the GO Train? alas, no. The Burlington train gets into Union, where you'd have to get on to the Yonge St Line north to Bloor, then all the way east on the Bloor-Danforth line to Kennedy. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:30:47 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: prog attack! oh dear... don't tell me I'm the only Feg who actually HAS some Gentle Giant... One of those early a.i. "submit 5 albums you like and I'll tell you 100 more" web-bots told me to pick up Gentle Giant's THE POWER AND THE GLORY (I think because I mentioned Zappa and Shudder To Think). It's good, embarrassingly proggy, but not quite to my liking. 1) Unless written by Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, or (arguably) Richard Palmer-James, prog lyrics are always shite as a given; this isn't my TYPE of shite. Heavy on the mythological / elfin side rather than the sci-fi or the objectivist self-empowerment side. 2) Great vocal harmonies, but no single strong, clear-as-a-bell, androgyne voice (the archetype for which is Jack Bruce or Jon Anderson; this, incidentally, is why John Wetton comes off sounding like Barry White in comparison). 3) Heavy emphasis on sax and keyboards, rather than guitar and drums. To me, prog is about Fripp / Wetton / Bruford or Howe / Squire / Bruford or McLaughlin / Laird / Cobham -- I enjoy it when you can forget that the keyboards are there. [This, of course, is also why I HATE ELP.] When you forget that the keyboards are there in Gentle Giant, it sounds hollow. 4) The prog that I like balances its preciousness with some WHOMP. Gentle Giant is 100% whomp-free. - -- dolph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:35:42 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: prog attack! Dolph: > 1) Unless written by Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, or (arguably) Richard > Palmer-James, prog lyrics are always shite as a given; this isn't >my TYPE of shite. Voting thumbs-down on Ian Anderson, then? > 4) The prog that I like balances its preciousness with some WHOMP. Just how I like my women. The Screaming Trees, "prog"? Pshaw. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:39:40 -0400 From: "FS Thomas" Subject: Give Piece a Chance A way to strive for peace in the privacy of your own home: http://www.masturbateforpeace.com "Cream your khakis, not Iraqis." (NSFW or little kids) - -f. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:40:34 -0500 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: prog attack! At 08:35 PM 7/15/2003, Eb wrote: >Dolph: >> 1) Unless written by Robert Wyatt, Peter Gabriel, or (arguably) Richard >> Palmer-James, prog lyrics are always shite as a given; this isn't my >> TYPE of shite. > >Voting thumbs-down on Ian Anderson, then? Hmm. I would say that Ian Anderson lyrics are shite that I ADORE. :) - -- dolph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:46:45 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: prog attack! On Tuesday, July 15, 2003, at 08:30 PM, Dolph Chaney wrote: > To me, prog is about Fripp / Wetton / Bruford or Howe / Squire / > Bruford or McLaughlin / Laird / Cobham -- I enjoy it when you can > forget that the keyboards are there. So much for Greenslade, I guess. - - Steve __________ When I watch the Fox News channel, I can't believe how much nerve those people have and how they assume that people are just going to swallow that shit. - Thom Yorke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:45:13 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: Speaking (Way Too Lengthily) of Prog Rock... Quoting "Iosso, Ken" : > "Cans and brahms" anyone? Is the pretentiousness covering Brahms? Cuz what prog band *didn't* cover a classical composer? (add another criterion...) But at least they took the piss out of it with a Benny Hill-level pun for the title. How about "Supper's Ready" which I do love? > > I know there have been many bands who are pretentious, but the sheer > consistency of thematic albums, classical allusions, funny costumes, and > self-seriousness I think puts them in a league of their own. _Lamb_ had a concept, yes - but which other Gabriel-era album did? And really: if your education and cultural background makes classical allusions part of your life (which was the case w/Genesis, as far as I know), it would be *more* pretentious to write songs going, "Woke up dis moahnin', mule don' wanna plow." (Notice of pet peeve: well educated rockers suddenly deciding they have to use "bad" grammar to convey their street-level authenticity...) The funny costumes...okay, that's harder to defend...but it was a different time. Theatricality of that sort was new and different - wasn't the idea to not just do the expected? As for self-seriousness...I give you "Return of the Giant Hogweed," "Harold the Barrel," the ludicrous (if pointed) s/f scenario of "Get 'em Out by Friday," even the annoying lawnmower guy in "I Know What I Like (In Your Wardbrobe)"...and more. Gabriel has always displayed a somewhat dark, sardonic sense of humor ("Moribund the Burgermeister" anyone?), even if he also has been capable of taking himself way too seriously. Frankly, he's done that last far more in his non-prog solo career than w/Genesis. Yes's lyrics were pretty much goosefarts, yes - and there's Jon Anderson's voice to be dealt with (I'm amazed that he's fathered several children) - but as a band they were one of the few big-league prog acts that could actually *rock*. Sense of humor rather lacking (except for Wakeman), although the line in "Going for the One" about something being "so hard to find in my cosmic mind" is a bit of self-deprecatory chuckle. ELP were way more pretentious - Lake always sang those awful lyrics as if he were Charlton Heston as Moses delivering the Ten Commandments - and they were surprisingly inept as performers, always sloppy with notes and tempo. Plus, Emerson's taste essentially ran to game shows, bad musical, and the lamest classical* - and if you've ever had the unpleasure to hear what they do w/more modern synths (reunion)...shudder...awful crap. (Only reason I heard that was that I was making an, ahem, embarrassing CD project - okay, for a friend who's a major LOTR fan, in the wake of the first movie I remade a themed mix I'd done when I was 12 or so, necessitating a trip to the library to check out the ELP box to get a track or two. I listened to bits of it to see if, while I was reconsidering prog after my indie-punk years of rejection, ELP might sound better to me. Nope. Sorry. Still suck.) * although ELP's choice of classical covers was fairly interesting, at least when it drew from 20c composers - and the composer himself liked their Ginastera adaptation. Whoever mentioned Gentle Giant? At least in their prime, that was the real deal: a deep love of medieval polyphony combined w/a melodic and chordal sense apparently derived from the thorniest of 20c classical composers, plus a wacky sense of instrumentation. Complex as hell, but not derivative: genuininely progressive (a lot of prog wasn't). ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: When the only tool you have is an interociter, you tend to treat :: everything as if it were a fourth-order nanodimensional sub-quantum :: temporo-spatial anomaly. :: --Crow T. Maslow np: The Fletcher Pratt _Nine by Nine_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Swedene Subject: Toronto/VW/iPod So when is the official listening party? I would love to drive up from Buffalo and meet some of the listers. I met a few back at teh El Mocambo show back in 92. Long time ago..... I am getting a Beetle tomorrow. New VW promotion they are giving away a 10gb iPod with the purchaser of a new Beetle. Not too shabby. Need to get a car kit, but I am hoping it is in there :0) also when is the new REM album coming out? Mike "I miss Mike's quotes already" ===== - --------------------------------------------- Rebuilding my websight: http://www34.brinkster.com/bflomidy/ _____________________________________________ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:12:19 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: Proggin' Robyn Quoting "Rex.Broome" : > >Uses odd-numbered time signatures in addition to the usual 3/4 > > Sometimes, on par with Beatles in such tendencies (although when did 3/4 > become usual?) Well, it's by far the most common odd-numbered time signature - I didn't mean to imply it was the *usual* time sig overall (least not in rock). > >>Are we having all this traditional-'70s talk lately, just to spite the > departed > >>Quail? ;) > > Sorta. More like we can joke around about it a bit more. You can't > make > fun of your friend's obnoxious girlfriend when he's in the room, but > wait > till he walks out the door and hoooo boy. Is there a reason the girlfriend is referred to as "he" here? Oh. Never mind. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society http://www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: Empire is incompatible with democracy. Democracy is founded on the :: rule of law, empire on the rule of force. Democracy is a system of :: self-determination, empire a system of military conquest. :: --Jonathan Schell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:18:33 -0700 From: Eb Subject: RE: Speaking of Way-Too-Lengthy Prog Rock... >Jeffrey with 2Es: >Gabriel has always displayed a somewhat dark, >sardonic sense of humor ("Moribund the Burgermeister" anyone?), even if he >also has been capable of taking himself way too seriously. Frankly, he's >done that last far more in his non-prog solo career than w/Genesis. Yup. >and there's Jon Anderson's >voice to be dealt with (I'm amazed that he's fathered several children) - His lyrics suck, but I do think Anderson's voice is a marvel. I'm big on voices which are instantly identifiable, and is there *any* voice more instantly identifiable than Anderson's? What's more, it doesn't seem like his voice has changed at all through the band's history. No new shakiness, pitch problems, etc. Maybe the hardcore concert tapers would disagree, I dunno. >but as a band they were one of the few big-league prog acts that could >actually *rock*. True. Probably more consistently than King Crimson, even. Though I always wonder why nobody ever did a kickass cover of "The Great Deceiver," 'cuz that song smokes, man. >ELP were way more pretentious - Lake always sang those awful lyrics as if he >were Charlton Heston as Moses delivering the Ten Commandments True. > - and they >were surprisingly inept as performers, always sloppy with notes and tempo. True. >and if you've ever had the unpleasure to hear what they >do w/more modern synths (reunion)...shudder...awful crap. True. Eb, ever the naysayer ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #274 ********************************