From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V12 #261 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, July 10 2003 Volume 12 : Number 261 Today's Subjects: ----------------- too much to reply to, part 2 [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] too much to reply to, epilogue [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: too much to reply to, part 2 ["Glen Uber" ] I'm a dumbass [Glen Uber ] RE: Multiple emails (was: Re: A Ph.D. by any other name...) [Capuchin ] Re: Natural Processes? ["Glen Uber" ] city/small town? ["Marc Holden" ] Re: Multiple emails (was: Re: A Ph.D. by any other name...) [Sebastian Ha] Re: city/small town? [Capuchin ] Re: even more childbirth stuff ["Stewart C. Russell" But I say from experience that, dude, 7000 is small. But I guess it's >relative (James rates 120k as "medium", for example, and alluded to Lou Reed >referring to Pittsburgh as "small"). definitely. I mean, what's a big city by NZ standards would probably only just hit the radar in the US. NZ's third largest city, Christchurch [James looks up encyclopedia] is the same size as the likes of Albuquerque, Minneapolis, or Omaha. You could fit Auckland ten times over into L.A. (and good riddance to it). And Dunedin, which I'd reckon as medium sized, is NZ's fourth or fifth largest city, and right up there with the likes of Yakima, Washington. On the other hand, Christchurch's population is bigger than that of Iceland, And Dunedin's bigger than Reykjavik. Some words are just fun to type... - --- >>>Not sure what a 7-11 or a fred myers is, so I can't comment on them. There >is >>a Starbucks some four miles from here, but I've never been in it. > >Well, 7-11 is the largest chain (and the original model, I'd figure) of >franchised "covenience stores" in the US. Think the Quick-E-Mart on the >Simpsons. There are other big chains (AM-PM, Circle-K etc.) but they seem >to vary regionally, whereas 7-11's are universal. They are so called >because those were their original hours, but I think all of them are pretty >much open 24 hours now. Pak'n'Save would be our nearest, about two miles from here, but for ethics reasons I avoid it (it's not known as Sack'n'slave for nothing). Which means the nearest branch of New World, about three miles away. And the aforementioned Warehouse would count, too (and since the nearest branch of that is next door to P'n'S, that's closer than New World). But I prefer to shop at the corner dairy. >>>congratulations, Miles, on being the first person to allude to Robyn in >>>this list for... what? About two weeks? > >I think Eb described part of his medical procedure as "Robynesque"... yeah, >the two Steves... and I know I mentioned the Glass Flesh comps exactly a >week ago, so that kind of counts. But in some ways that's more of a literal >nod to the music of James Dignan than Robyn. Nice work, by the way! :) thanks. It wasn't a fish for compliments. It was just an observation that it's getting slowly to the stage where mentioning Robyn might be too off-topic for this list! And yeah, Eb's right, there has been mention of Luxor. I sorta expunged that from my mind since I've never so much as got close to a copy. >Meanwhile... giant octopus remains on beaches, that's good. I think my >daughter knows something because she kept saying "octopus" all day yesterday >with no provocation that we could identify. I'm gonna try to get her to >tell me what the deal is tonight. Hm. An ex and her partner have the world's brightest five year old (or so it seems...). I should introduce young Meran to Robyn's music, I think. How many five-year-olds know what an ouroborus is (and can probably spell it better than I can)? >PS What constitutes a 'small town'? I've lived in a city of 90,000 people >for years, but I've seen others refer to 120,000 (which is definitely big >to me) as small. I would have said 20,000 max. Originally a city was a town with a cathedral, but that's been consigned to history (and would cause problems in non-Christian countries, too). ISTR that the world's smallest city is St. David's, in Wales, popn 3000. NZ has distinct definitions, but every country probably differs. Here 1000 - 20000 is a town. Above that it's a city. Below that it's a township, any smaller and it becomes a settlement (usually under about 200). Less, and it's a community, usually preceded by some descriptive word of what type of community (farming community, mining community, fishing community, etc). >No one famous ever came from Santa Rosa, except Julie London and Rebecca >DeMornay hmmm. Sam Neill? Martin Phillipps? Various sports-people that you probably haven't heard of (Jeff Wilson, Glenn and Greg Turner, Danyon Loader, Russell Coutts, and Jack Lovelock to name but a few)? Archie McIndoe? No? I thought not. I'd like to add David Harris to the list, too, but he's too much a 'behind the scenes' person for anyone here to have heard of, let alone overseas (he invented Eudora e-mail software). James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:21:14 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: too much to reply to, epilogue Congrats Dr.Tom on finishing what I started and gave up on (I settled for an MSc in psych in the end). And thanks for the pretty thorough myers-briggs rundown. >http://users.wmin.ac.uk/~buchant/wwwffi/ hmm. Relatively open, neurotic and agreeable, but average on the other scales. The three high ratings don't surprise me too much, although I would have expected a higher rating on the extraversion test (I suppose that's accurate though. It's more a case of having a mixture of extravert and introvert tendencies than being right in the middle. Sort of shy and flamboyant to cover it). >> grad students are students who have a bachelor but no master, right? So >> what do you call students who already have a master and are now going for a >> Dr.? > >At least as far as I know, students with masters who are pursuing a >doctorate are still grad students. Don't think there's any particular name >or title attached - at least none that anyone I know would insist upon. terminology differs from country to country. I believe in Germany anyone with a PhD is known by the general public as Doctor, even if it's in a fairly esoteric broanch of knowledge. In some countries if you use the "Dr." appellation it usually means you're either a medical man or teach at a university. Similarly I was a postgrad student as soon as I graduated from my MA and started my MSc. Post grad = after graduation. If you're going for a PhD, you can also be called a doctoral student. If Tom continues his studies, he'll be doing postdoc study. >I think "Dr. Thomas Rodebaugh," "Thomas Rodebaugh, Ph.D." and "Dr. Thomas >Rodebaugh, Ph.D." are all equivalent. I'm pretty sure the last is not allowed, unless he has two different doctorates. - --- >While spotting the Flying Scotsman today, I noticed that most of the >Pullman cars were named 'Phoenix', 'Audrey' and so on, but the first one >was named 'Albannach Sgiathach'. Gaelic, obviously, but what do it mean? >Is it a straight translation of 'Flying Scotsman'? And what relation does >it have to the character Albanac in 'Moon of Gomrath'? Albannach sounds like it should mean Scotsman - Alba is the Gaelic for Scotland. >Scotland is definitely better viewed from a distance. >And through the bottom of a bottle of Sierra Nevada. "Do we not love her? Do we not say we love her? Do we have to roam the world to prove how much it hurts?" James (wondering if there's ever been a band called "Recalcitrant Placenta") James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:24:27 -0700 From: "Glen Uber" Subject: Re: too much to reply to, part 2 James Dignan earnestly scribbled: >I'd like to add David Harris to the list, too, but he's too >much a 'behind the scenes' person for anyone here to have heard of, let >alone overseas (he invented Eudora e-mail software). I thought he's responsible for Pegasus, not Eudora. - -- Cheers! - -g- "Work is the curse of the drinking class." - --Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:31:54 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: and yet more! >>>Hillman claims that his 'Time Between' was the first country rock song. > >He may have a point. Probably better to specify >"Post-British-Invasion-Country-Rock" song... true, since 50% of Buddy Holly's repertoire could be called Country-Rock. >Winnowing down the list of Byrds-influenced songs and artists to one CD of >stuff would be damned hard and probably not wildly revelatory. But I did >once put together a disc of actual Byrds covers for a friend containing >various tracks from my disc collection, and it was easily as long as the >"Time Between" compilation. best I know that you won't ;) is the wonderful cover of "Here without you" by Splitter, off their first CD (my brother-in-law's cousin played guitar on it, but I only found that out about a year after I'd already fallen for the song). James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:33:35 +1200 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: too much to reply to, part 2 >James Dignan earnestly scribbled: > >>I'd like to add David Harris to the list, too, but he's too >>much a 'behind the scenes' person for anyone here to have heard of, let >>alone overseas (he invented Eudora e-mail software). > >I thought he's responsible for Pegasus, not Eudora. f*k. Pegasus it is. Too much replying in too short a time gives my brain wind. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- =-.-=-.-=-.- You talk to me as if from a distance .-=-.-=-.-=-. -=-. And I reply with impressions chosen from another time .-=- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- (Brian Eno - "By this River") -.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:38:19 -0500 From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: too much to reply to, part 2 Quoting James Dignan : > it seems...). I should introduce young Meran to Robyn's music, I think. > How > many five-year-olds know what an ouroborus is (and can probably spell it > better than I can)? I think that's spelled right - isn't that the snake swallowing its own tail? The reverse of an ouroboros - a soroboruo, I suppose - is common among U.S. politicians: a man with his head up his ass. ..Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html :: we make everything you need, and you need everything we make ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:21:44 -0700 From: "Jason Brown \(Echo Services Inc\)" Subject: RE: everything else Glen Uber wrote: > Fred Meyer, from what I remember, in terms of cleanliness, selection, > quality, is closer to Target. I think the thing that surprised me is > everyone I talked to had wanted to know if I had been to Fred Meyer. I > felt like I was missing something somehow because I didn't view it as a > holy grail of a store the same way others had. As Seattlite, I'm curious as to which Fred Meyer everyone was inquiring about. Ballard or Lake City? Or one out in the burbs? I guess i can understand if this was when the Ballard one opened up a while back as that was the first Megabox store south of Northgate. People did ask me about it alot at the time as i just moved to Ballard. I agree with the comparison with Target. And the new two story target up in Northgate is pretty cool especially with the nifty escalator thingee for shoping carts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:40:17 -0700 From: Glen Uber Subject: Re: everything else On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 09:21 PM, Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc) wrote: > I agree with the comparison with Target. And the new two story target > up in Northgate is pretty cool especially with the nifty escalator > thingee for shoping carts. I'm thinking that one of the two FM's that I went to was near Northgate. One of my girlfriends at the time lived in North Seattle, on the border of Lynnewood, and I'm certain it was fairly close to her. The other was near the DMV near Wallingford, I think. Cheers! - -g- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:43:15 -0700 From: Glen Uber Subject: I'm a dumbass After re-reading Jason's post, I've come to the following conclusions: On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 09:40 PM, Glen Uber wrote: > I'm thinking that one of the two FM's that I went to was near > Northgate. One of my girlfriends at the time lived in North Seattle, > on the border of Lynnewood, and I'm certain it was fairly close to > her. This might have been the Lake City one. > The other was near the DMV near Wallingford, I think. This must have been the one in Ballard. "I'm sorry, I've had a few" - -g- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:13:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: RE: Multiple emails (was: Re: A Ph.D. by any other name...) On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Jason Brown (Echo Services Inc) wrote: > I asked this list along time ago why there was no reply-to header > designating the list, which is all other mailing lists I am on have and > I think the fegmaniax digest has as well, and I received a cryptic reply > about how this avoids Mudge or some techno jargon like that which made > no sense to me. Reply-To headers for mailing lists are a BAD idea. Ken pointed out one good reason, but there are many more. Every mail client I know gives you the option of replying to the sender or to all recipients. If you reply to all, you can simply edit the recipient list and send your message. There is no technological replacement for courtesy and dilligence. > While we are all complaining. I must say that the fact that all your > posts are flagged as important is rather annoying too. Not that you > posts aren't worth reading but I'd rather that outlook beeps at me when > something truly serious hits my mail box. Heh. I understand that that's annoying, but it's kind of funny. You really shouldn't respect non-standard headers. It breaks down the whole system. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:34:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Fred Meyer (was "everything else") On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Miles Goosens wrote: > Glen, another question so I can peg it better: I'd never put K-Mart and > Target in the same sentence, because to me K-Mart is in the same > "overcrowded, junky, clutter-ridden, poor-quality goods" category as > Wal-Mart, whereas Melissa and I are big Target fans. They just seem > cleaner and to have better stuff (especially in their store brands), and > it's a much more pleasant experience, so if we can get our dept. > store-type needs met at Target, we do. So is Fred Meyers more like > K-Mart or more like Wal-Mart? Woah woah woah. Let me go in and try to give y'all a better impression of Fred Meyer (not plural or possessive, though folks always say it that way). Fred G. Meyer had a shop on 6th & SW Alder in Portland like a hundred years ago. It was kind of an anomoly at the time and even when it became a large local chain, it was something unheard of in the rest of the country. Essentially, the original Fred Meyer store was like any of your NYC corner stores. There was fresh produce at the door and sundries inside. The chain grew up to be something very unlike everything else. A typical Fred Meyer of the 70s and 80s had a large grocery section (the size of a big supermarket like Safeway or something), a pharmacy with associated over-the-counter health and hygeine products, a large toy section, a sporting goods section with the camping gear and stuff Glen mentioned, an automotive section, a home improvement section with everything from power drills to trees to paint and many even have lumber (!!), a clothing section with modest quality clothing (originally this was sort of a "seconds" clearinghouse for local manufacturers like Nike and Columbia Sportswear and Pendleton Woolen Mills), and home furnishings like towels and bookshelves and coffee tables and such. Essentially, a good Fred Meyer is a Safeway AND a Target (though I'd put Target's quality well below Fred Meyer) AND a... err... maybe a small Home Depot? but I would go on to say that it's a cut above each of those stores in quality, service, and local feel. Most Fred Meyer stores have a pretty good organic/whole foods section and bulk food which is totally lacking at any Safeway in town. They don't have the harsh plastic feel or lighting that makes Target such a sterile, hateful place to me. And the amount of variety under one roof can be scarily convenient, though I try to use local specialty shops whenever possible. Fred Meyer was also one of the first stores to offer anciliary services such as photo processing and one of the last to retain services like shoe shining. They also delivered groceries well past the time when most stores had stopped in this country and up until the late eighties would take an order over the phone and have it packed up and ready to go at a specified time for quick pick-up. Now every Fred Meyer in the region has at least a bank (Washington Mutual) in the same building. Oh, and they still have novelty coin-op machines by the entrances to grab the spare change of egressing customers. Garbage toys in plastic eggs and jawbreakers or gum. For a short time in the early eighties most Fred Meyers had a video game or two (as did most places in that era). This was the worst thing ever. See, my mother was, like, the all-time great Ms. Pacman player and her little addiction caused me untold hours of impatient waiting and pacing (always "within sight", even though she was pretty intensely staring at that little screen) and quite a few lost quarts of ice cream melted before getting home. Fred Meyer used to use as a trademark the term "One Stop Shopping", but apparently they were unable to convince the powers that be that this was their exclusive mark and for a while used "Your One-Stop Shopping Center" and then "True One Stop Shopping" until the concept became so common that they dropped the campaign entirely. Another note of Fred Meyer Lore that is only interesting to Portlanders: Up until just a few years ago, the Fred Meyer at SW 6th & Alder was still in business (it became a Payless Drug and now a Rite Aid drug store). The 6th & Alder store was in a geographically limited location (the ground floor of a quarter-block office building), so it never developed the variety of goods and services in the stand-alone stores. There would be commercials on television advertising products like the Garden Weasel and Tarn-X that were locally aired by Fred Meyer. The commercial would be focussed on the one product, but the last three seconds or something would say "Available at all Fred Meyer stores except sixth and alder". Growing up in an unincorporated area outside a small town (pop. 1790 or 1970 depending on whether you saw the sign on the way into town from the east or west), we used to wonder what, if anything, was actually IN the store at 6th and Alder. Even the newspaper inserts would go out of their way to point out that most items weren't available at 6th and Alder. I don't know, I'm just reminiscing at this point. So, even though they've sold out to krappy Kroeger's and aren't the local dynasty they once were, I have a very soft place in my heart for Fred Meyer and still go there even though I've sworn off Target and have never bought anything in a Wal-Mart. Portland had been, until recent years, surprisingly resistent to the megastores and chains and the city proper is still relatively free of that kind of thing. The burbs are another story, but they're the same Olive Garden/lube shop/Costco nightmare anywhere in this country. I think this is more due to Portlander's strong sense of locality and civic-mindedness than Fred Meyer, of course. In recent years, as the influx from other cities has grown to an irresistable tide, the both local sense and civic-mindedness have declined sharply. Folks come in and say things like, "Portland's great, but what it really needs is a ." The people fail to realize, of course, that Portland is great partially because we DON'T (or worse, didn't) have that thing and the associated accoutrements that make that thing viable. Anyway, I'll shut up. I have a party to attend. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:45:22 -0700 From: "Glen Uber" Subject: Re: Natural Processes? Tom earnestly scribbled: >Well, I must admit that Glen's wife does have nice hair, FWIW. She said it's due to all the protein in her diet. - -- Cheers! - -g- "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - --Frank Zappa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:50:53 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: city/small town? >- - Mike Godwin >PS What constitutes a 'small town'? I've lived in a city of 90,000 people >for years, but I've seen others refer to 120,000 (which is definitely big >to me) as small. I would have said 20,000 max. When Lou Reed played here recently, he started out by asking the audience "Who thinks they live in a city?" When no one raised their hand, he said something to the effect of "Good, I won't need to set you straight on that then." (Phoenix has over 1.3 million people--6th largest in the US, with the metro area probably exceeding 2.5 to 3 million). When he talks about small towns/cities, he's talking more about the community and overall identity. I'd have to agree in this regard. Phoenix has some unusal characteristics, but no real identity or feeling of community. New York, Boston, Chicago, LA, SF, etc. all have their identifiable stereo-typical residents and culture. Pittsburg probably does fit better into the small town group when you look at it this way. Later, Marc btw--doesn't "Pearl Jam" refer to the rectal insertion of a string of pearls/beads, which are to be slowly pulled out one at a time? also btw--I once had to explain to my mother why it was funny that her friend in Guam lived on Golden Showers Lane. "Thanks to Homer Simpson, now we'll all be taking golden showers."--Kent Brockman, the Simpsons ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:28:12 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: Multiple emails (was: Re: A Ph.D. by any other name...) - --On Mittwoch, 9. Juli 2003 13:03 Uhr -0400 Ken Weingold wrote: > And why would people want to be CCd > on emails to a list they are subscribed to? Actually I usually do it the other way round, and like it when somebody does the same with replies to my mails: set the personal address as To: and Cc: the list. That shows it as it is: you reply to the person and want the list to share. To me that best reflects the actual meaning of To: and Cc:. If I want to address the list in general, I put the list as To:. But that's just me, apparently ... - -- Sebastian Hagedorn PGP key ID: 0x4D105B45 Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156 50823 Kvln http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:50:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: city/small town? On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Marc Holden wrote: > When Lou Reed played here recently, he started out by asking the > audience "Who thinks they live in a city?" When no one raised their > hand, he said something to the effect of "Good, I won't need to set you > straight on that then." (Phoenix has over 1.3 million people--6th > largest in the US, with the metro area probably exceeding 2.5 to 3 > million). Entering Phoenix by freeway there's a sign to the effect of: Phoenix Next 60 Exits That's not a city, that's just a bunch of buildings between freeway interchanges. > When he talks about small towns/cities, he's talking more about the > community and overall identity. I'd have to agree in this regard. > Phoenix has some unusal characteristics, but no real identity or feeling > of community. New York, Boston, Chicago, LA, SF, etc. all have their > identifiable stereo-typical residents and culture. Pittsburg probably > does fit better into the small town group when you look at it this way. I don't know much about Pittsburg, but Portland definitely walks a line between very small city and very large town. While there's a definite sense of identity and culture for the city as a whole, the idea of culture and identity by neighborhood is relatively new and not fully formed. Right now, I can say, "I live in Irvington" and that means something to about half the people that live here (partially due to the high number of transplants and partially due to the fact that it's mostly an historic residential district and is fairly low key). My friend Jodi can say, "I live in Alberta" and that means something to probably many more because it's an up-and-coming arts district. But if, say, Fred Smith (a real person) says, "I live in Sabin", there are probably only a handful of people that know what he means even though it's a large neighborhood smack between Irvington and Alberta. Anyway, I think a city has neighborhoods with identity while towns just have an identity. So Chicago has Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park and Wicker Park and Roscoe Village and whatever that means something and New York has neighborhoods in each and every burrough that have well-understood identities and so on, places that are not made up of distinct neighborhoods have a difficult time establishing distinct local cultures. The best they can get is a regional culture. I think it's really helpful to think of places where people live as collections of neighborhoods and determine what to call the whole thing based on how many you have and how distinct they are. If you've got just one neighborhood, you're a village. If you've got two to fifty or so, you're a town. If you've got more than that, you're a city. It's not dependent on population at all. (Though a FUNCTIONING neighborhood is something else and is very much a function of geography, psychological and physical, natural and man-made.) I also think that these last three paragraphs are in reverse order of progression of thought. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:53:36 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: even more childbirth stuff Jason R. Thornton wrote: > > And Gaelic? That word slays me every time. In Scotland at least, it's pronounced GAH-lick. Which isn't as funny. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:29:31 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Re: too much to reply to, epilogue - --On Donnerstag, 10. Juli 2003 13:21 Uhr +1200 James Dignan wrote: > terminology differs from country to country. I believe in Germany anyone > with a PhD is known by the general public as Doctor, even if it's in a > fairly esoteric broanch of knowledge. Hmm, I wonder what broanch of knowledge I possess ... ;-) anyway, you're right, Dr. is the term used for all areas of academic achievement. The term Ph.D. is not used at all. Prior to writing a dissertation, which makes you a Dr., you can either: - - get a Staatsexamen (state exam, you need that to become a teacher or a lawyer, judge etc.) - - get a diploma (that's only for some scholarly areas, auch as engineering, social sciences, economics, sciences) - - get a Magister (roughly equivalent to an M.A., you can only get it in liberal arts types of studies) Once you have any of those, you can go ahead and write a dissertation. Technically there are a few universities where you can hand in a dissertation without having any other kind of degree, but that's strictly in theory these days ... The newcomers are the B.A. and the M.A. In the interest of competitiveness all the universities have been ordered to implement these degrees, first as an optional addition, but as a replacement in the long run, I guess. Bet you wanted to know all that, right? Cheers, Sebastian - -- Sebastian Hagedorn PGP key ID: 0x4D105B45 Ehrenfeldg|rtel 156 50823 Kvln http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V12 #261 ********************************